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The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

DC9

By DC9
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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
Posted

If it's 27 yards more on 22 additional catches ...

 

This is not calculus. I love Pierre but Jackson does things very few WRs in NFL history can do. In fact he now trails only Jerry Rice in TD catches over 60 yards. He has 22 to Rices 23. 

 

Garcon and Jackson have very different roles in our offense. Both are excellent at what they do. My opinion is it's a lot easier to replace what Pierre does than Jackson.

4 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

However...............

7/4 in terms of touchdowns

70% completions % as opposed to 54%

Not getting into the intangibles, there is a pretty big difference.

 

Garcon has 3 TDs. Crowder has 7.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

I usually respond to comments; that's why it seems like I'm always talking about it....I've just been really frustrated at the free pass SM has been getting.......I also said many times that I like SM....I like his thought process....I just haven't liked his execution.....I'll be hopeful come March/April.

 

I'll respond to this and Squatch 66's post at the same time.

 

As for SM.  He didn't tell me outright their off season plans.  But I spoke to him for 2 hours so I got a sense of what he thinks of some positions and some players on the roster, we talked a little about the draft, and he gave me some sense of what he's working on in that department.   I didn't get into a conversation with him about his take about FA.    I did talk to him about positions, and it was easy to pick up which ones he especially values, etc and it was super easy to pick up what his #1 mission of the off season will be.  He told me that part stays in the room so I won't talk about it.  I'll just say that his #1 mission wouldn't surprise anyone on this thread. 

 

He's a super cool guy and direct and honest.    My biggest takeaway from the lunch is the dude is 1000 times hungrier than even any one of us fanatical fans as to winning a Super Bowl.    I got many small pieces as to what he's thinking versus full completed thoughts on some stuff so for me the more other stuff I see from him in public interviews -- the easier it would be for me to connect the dots moving forward.

 

One thing some reporters and some on this board IMO are dead wrong about Scot is the notion that he missed on the team's weaknesses and he misjudged them -- where he must have thought said position was set, etc.   We really didn't get into that subject directly but via other avenues in the conversation it was very clear to me that he knew he didn't build a Super Bowl roster, yet.  He talked about it taking more than 2 years for Seattle to build to a consistent championship level -- and he talked to me about why a specific position wasn't upgraded last off season and I'll just say on that, it just didn't flow in the off season and he didn't want to force it.

 

 I got the vibe that he thinks they are closer now and accordingly he will have a more go for the crown approach this off season.  But he didn't flat out say that -- it was just different things that was said that exuded optimism moving forward.   I am sure you've had a conversation before with someone where you covered a lot of ground where you can form your own educated conclusions about things -- that's the gist of it for me.  And we probably covered over 30 subjects so we hit a lot of turf.  But I purposely didn't ask direct questions about his plans -- I thought that would be nosy to do so and as honest as the dude is, I doubt he would tell me.  But the conversation was so free flowing that I think I have a good sense of how he thinks and what he thinks about the roster.

 

Having said that I spent no energy on his take on FA.  And I didn't ask him about that subject - outside of asking him about a potential trade and his answer on that was really interesting in that I think it might have given me a small window into FA thinking.    I don't mean to be a tease on that front.  But the guy was so cool, I don't want to do anything out of school.  And again, who knows I was talking to him in one moment in time -- things might have shifted since.   

 

As for Skinspassion4life.

 

All i can tell you I think you will likely be satisfied by this off season if your desire is major upgrades on defense.  If you want him to land hits with almost every FA -- including the low cost ones -- buckle up because you will be disappointed.  It's nice to remember the Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington, London Fletchers but they had as many misses as hits, probably more misses 

 

Overall, this team whether under Shanny or Gibbs or Casserly had many FA failed signings  -- hey we can just do thread after thread alone on just safety FA signings that failed going back for years.   And yeah I agree we had some good signings in the mix of bad.  Ironically not that different from SM with FA in that regard.   Hits and misses.   Though don't feel like debating that again.  

 

As for philosophy, the idea is developing younger players from within helps both the cap, depth, culture and long term prospects.  FA is good to complement all of that.  Josh Norman makes it clear that if Scot loves a FA he is willing to pay big bucks,

 

If I recall you or someone else said before cap room not used is wasted.  Actually, that's not so, it carries over.  I am sure you recall that the Gibbs regime wanted to resign A. Pierce but they were strapped with too little cap space. Being right up against the cap and having much dead cap space was common here.  Heck they couldn't even resign L. Alexander for a modest contract because they were against the cap.    Having the cap space helps to let you keep your own players.

 

Again, Scot and I didn't cover this so this is me extrapolating from his other interviews that we've read.  And on that front, I do not expect him to go nuts with free agency, Vinny style.  But it wouldn't surprise me at all if they had 2 major FA signings along with some low cost guys.   

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TSO

TSO

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Its true. I used a drive through ATM last week ...

 

 

I deposit the checks for my business at a drive thru ATM at a Wells Fargo branch right across the street after work everyday. I don't talk to anyone and don't get out of my car. Spoiled rotten.  :ols: 

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squatch66

squatch66

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, carex said:

 

we need D help now, potentially more than you can get in a draft

 

I'm not going to argue that we don't need help on the d, but it's not going to be "ZOMG REDSKINS ONE IS IN TENNESSEE WE'RE SIGNING HAYNESWORTH CHAMPIONSHIIIIIIIIIIIP!!!!!!"

 

Sorry carex, not singling you out, I just keep seeing all these posts that say we've got tons of money to spend and since it worked for the Giants it has to work for us right? Sorry, I just don't buy that after all this talk from McC about rewarding your own for working hard and the message it sends to the rest of the roster and how he's not big on high dollar free agents because it limits what you can spend on the rest of your roster.

 

If he sells us on all that then comes out and goes full Vinny then McC should quit right now because he's got a bright future in politics

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DC9

DC9

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22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

One thing some reporters and some on this board IMO are dead wrong about Scot is the notion that he missed on the team's weaknesses and he misjudged them -- where he must have thought said position was set, etc.   We really didn't get into that subject directly but via other avenues in the conversation it was very clear to me that he knew he didn't build a Super Bowl roster, yet.  He talked about it taking more than 2 years for Seattle to build to a consistent championship level -- and he talked to me about why a specific position wasn't upgraded last off season and I'll just say on that, it just didn't flow in the off season and he didn't want to force it.

 

That's really it.  Folks in the press and folks here are upset that we didn't draft DL for the sake of drafting DL.  And why "BPA is stupid," but WE as fans don't know the draft like most of these GMs do.

 

I think it was the Master Teferson dude was ****ing about it back earlier in the fall and I asked him "Should we have drafted Blaine Gabbert in 2011 because we needed a QB?"

 

He never answered.

 

Those players will come.  And we'll be there to take them when they do.  Trust that he knows what he's doing.

 

In the meantime he'll test the waters with "show me," deals on low risk players.

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skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, DC9 said:

 

Spent a lot of time yesterday watching the Eagles defense.  They played their safeties about 10-12 yards off the line of scrimmage most of the time.  That was also the case after DJax caught it deep.

To be fair, didn't we put a crazy amount of rushing yards on the 1st game?

 

 

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Momma There Goes That Man

Momma There Goes That Man

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

I deposit the checks for my business at a drive thru ATM at a Wells Fargo branch right across the street after work everyday. I don't talk to anyone and don't get out of my car. Spoiled rotten.  :ols: 

My ATM now i don't even have to count the money or use an envelope. Just put the bills or checks in the feeder and it counts them all for me and gives a breakdown on the screen. Love it 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted

DC9:

 

Yeah agree.  You can't rebuild a 4-12 team overnight and BPA is the sound approach to build a team.  What Scot does and how he goes about it this off season -- remains to be seen.  But am sure its no surprise to anyone that he came off dead serious about fixing the team's remaining weaknesses.   

 

I wrote a longer post about this just now but it didn't go through for whatever reason.  I don't have the energy to rewrite it but I'd summarize my experience with Scot this way -- he is such a cool dude.  He could have easily just spent 15 minutes with me and my kids but went full out for 2 hours.   He's a people guy on steroids.  My kids loved the guy.  He got into a conversation with an alumni player in front of me and he was super gracious with that guy, too.    I can totally see why he's so good at gauging a player's personality -- I think a lot of it has to do with Scot's own personality.  I know its a cliche to say so and so is a guy that would be fun to have a beer with -- in Scot's case you'd want to run to have a beer with him.   I can totally see players opening up to him.    

 

It's hard to describe determination in words but I left that lunch thinking he will win a Super Bowl here.   And I am not an easy sell.  I work in a profession where I deal with luminaries at times and see BS, people going through the motions and glad handling all the time.  Scot is real.    He probably will never see me or my kids again but he was fully engaged anyway -- i explained in a previous thread all the things he did that were cool to make the experience more memorable for us and it was many -- and I was amazed he went through the trouble.  And, if he's doing that for just some random fan -- imagine the players?   

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DC9

DC9

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38 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

To be fair, didn't we put a crazy amount of rushing yards on the 1st game?

 

 

 

We did.  But to be even more fair they have the best DT pair in the league and Cousins didn't have a ton of time on many of his drop backs.  So it made sense. 

 

Doesn't make my point any less accurate.  My plan also helps in the red zone.

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DC9

DC9

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15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

DC9:

 

Yeah agree.  You can't rebuild a 4-12 team overnight and BPA is the sound approach to build a team.  What Scot does and how he goes about it this off season -- remains to be seen.  But am sure its no surprise to anyone that he came off dead serious about fixing the team's remaining weaknesses.  

 

That had to be an awesome experience.

 

I'm more just floored by the amount of impatience that's taken place after one year of success in a down division (that we still won, but looking big picture we weren't, as Czaban says "Really in the playoffs.").

 

The best example I can give is this completely made up but totally relevant to the conversation scenario:

 

You need a safety and a DT.  Here's what the board looks like:

 

Best Players Available:

1. Chris Samuels, T

2. London Fletcher, ILB

3. Kirk Cousins, QB

4. Clinton Portis, RB

 

Best Safeties Available:

34. Chris Horton

45. Old Ryan Clark

 

Best DTs Available:

28. Cornelius Griffin

99. Anthony Montgomery

 

Who do you pick?  It's pretty easy... :ols:

 

If I was able to have a lunch with Scot I probably would've embarrassed myself and asked if he wanted an apprentice. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted

DC9

 

I am with you -- it's very logical to go BPA.    The 3 most common critiques I see of Scot are:

 

1.  People suggesting that he should draft based on need.

2.  He missed on so and so FA -- the dude makes mistakes

3.  Whatever weaknesses the team has is on him -- he should have either fixed them all or he thought he fixed every leak in the ship but he incompetently failed at it. 

 

IMO all three hits are wildly off.  Good Gms generally go BPA in the draft.  Every GM misses on picks and FA signings and that goes double when you bargain hunt FAs.    And as I mentioned it was clear as day to me that Scot was very aware of what still needs to be fixed -- not that I was surprised by that.

 

The dude isn't perfect but I am pretty jazzed to see what transpires this off season.  As for the apprentice stuff -- funny thing for me is I usually study up on the draft after the season but I boned up early for this meeting so I didn't sound like a fool.  I pulled it off I think but barely. :ols:

 

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SkinsPassion4Life

SkinsPassion4Life

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, DC9 said:

 

That had to be an awesome experience.

 

I'm more just floored by the amount of impatience that's taken place after one year of success in a down division (that we still won, but looking big picture we weren't, as Czaban says "Really in the playoffs.").

 

The best example I can give is this completely made up but totally relevant to the conversation scenario:

 

You need a safety and a DT.  Here's what the board looks like:

 

Best Players Available:

1. Chris Samuels, T

2. London Fletcher, ILB

3. Kirk Cousins, QB

4. Clinton Portis, RB

 

Best Safeties Available:

34. Chris Horton

45. Old Ryan Clark

 

Best DTs Available:

28. Cornelius Griffin

99. Anthony Montgomery

 

Who do you pick?  It's pretty easy... :ols:

 

If I was able to have a lunch with Scot I probably would've embarrassed myself and asked if he wanted an apprentice. 

 

 

I think that's an extreme example

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Morneblade

Morneblade

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Posted
10 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

 

I think that's an extreme example

Oh, it is.

Last year was supposed to be really deep for DL so, lets make it a bit more realiistic

 

You need a safety and a DT.  Here's what the board looks like:

 

1. Chris Samuels, T

2. David Butz, DT

3. London Fletcher, ILB

4. Sean Taylor, S

5. Kirk Cousins, QB

 

You pass on Butz and draft Taylor but play him at LB

 

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SkinsPassion4Life

SkinsPassion4Life

Posted
Posted

Clearing up a few things....

 

1)  I don't believe SM misjudged our weaknesses.....he's signed D-Lineman and Safeties the past two years...that's the good news....you know the bad news.

 

2)  I believe in addressing your needs in FA and drafting BPA...that's the ideal world....when you don't properly address your needs in FA, I would maneuver in the draft to get the players you need..if possible....

 

3)  As an example....If we're picking 21st and we have a D-Lineman ranked 15th and the next best is 30th....I'm either trading up or trading down....If I have to take a bit less in value, I do it......the Broncos wanted to trade up for Lynch....we could have gotten the 32nd pick plus a 3rd rounder for pick #22

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carex

carex

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, squatch66 said:

 

I'm not going to argue that we don't need help on the d, but it's not going to be "ZOMG REDSKINS ONE IS IN TENNESSEE WE'RE SIGNING HAYNESWORTH CHAMPIONSHIIIIIIIIIIIP!!!!!!"

 

Sorry carex, not singling you out, I just keep seeing all these posts that say we've got tons of money to spend and since it worked for the Giants it has to work for us right? Sorry, I just don't buy that after all this talk from McC about rewarding your own for working hard and the message it sends to the rest of the roster and how he's not big on high dollar free agents because it limits what you can spend on the rest of your roster.

 

If he sells us on all that then comes out and goes full Vinny then McC should quit right now because he's got a bright future in politics

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for SM.  He didn't tell me outright their off season plans.  But I spoke to him for 2 hours so I got a sense of what he thinks of some positions and some players on the roster, we talked a little about the draft, and he gave me some sense of what he's working on in that department.   I didn't get into a conversation with him about his take about FA.    I did talk to him about positions, and it was easy to pick up which ones he especially values, etc and it was super easy to pick up what his #1 mission of the off season will be.  He told me that part stays in the room so I won't talk about it.  I'll just say that his #1 mission wouldn't surprise anyone on this thread. 

 

He's a super cool guy and direct and honest.    My biggest takeaway from the lunch is the dude is 1000 times hungrier than even any one of us fanatical fans as to winning a Super Bowl.    I got many small pieces as to what he's thinking versus full completed thoughts on some stuff so for me the more other stuff I see from him in public interviews -- the easier it would be for me to connect the dots moving forward.

 

One thing some reporters and some on this board IMO are dead wrong about Scot is the notion that he missed on the team's weaknesses and he misjudged them -- where he must have thought said position was set, etc.   We really didn't get into that subject directly but via other avenues in the conversation it was very clear to me that he knew he didn't build a Super Bowl roster, yet.  He talked about it taking more than 2 years for Seattle to build to a consistent championship level -- and he talked to me about why a specific position wasn't upgraded last off season and I'll just say on that, it just didn't flow in the off season and he didn't want to force it.

 

 I got the vibe that he thinks they are closer now and accordingly he will have a more go for the crown approach this off season.  But he didn't flat out say that -- it was just different things that was said that exuded optimism moving forward.   I am sure you've had a conversation before with someone where you covered a lot of ground where you can form your own educated conclusions about things -- that's the gist of it for me.  And we probably covered over 30 subjects so we hit a lot of turf.  But I purposely didn't ask direct questions about his plans -- I thought that would be nosy to do so and as honest as the dude is, I doubt he would tell me.  But the conversation was so free flowing that I think I have a good sense of how he thinks and what he thinks about the roster.

 

Having said that I spent no energy on his take on FA.  And I didn't ask him about that subject - outside of asking him about a potential trade and his answer on that was really interesting in that I think it might have given me a small window into FA thinking.    I don't mean to be a tease on that front.  But the guy was so cool, I don't want to do anything out of school.  And again, who knows I was talking to him in one moment in time -- things might have shifted since.   

 

As for Skinspassion4life.

 

All i can tell you I think you will likely be satisfied by this off season if your desire is major upgrades on defense.  If you want him to land hits with almost every FA -- including the low cost ones -- buckle up because you will be disappointed.  It's nice to remember the Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington, London Fletchers but they had as many misses as hits, probably more misses 

 

Overall, this team whether under Shanny or Gibbs or Casserly had many FA failed signings  -- hey we can just do thread after thread alone on just safety FA signings that failed going back for years.   And yeah I agree we had some good signings in the mix of bad.  Ironically not that different from SM with FA in that regard.   Hits and misses.   Though don't feel like debating that again.  

 

As for philosophy, the idea is developing younger players from within helps both the cap, depth, culture and long term prospects.  FA is good to complement all of that.  Josh Norman makes it clear that if Scot loves a FA he is willing to pay big bucks,

 

If I recall you or someone else said before cap room not used is wasted.  Actually, that's not so, it carries over.  I am sure you recall that the Gibbs regime wanted to resign A. Pierce but they were strapped with too little cap space. Being right up against the cap and having much dead cap space was common here.  Heck they couldn't even resign L. Alexander for a modest contract because they were against the cap.    Having the cap space helps to let you keep your own players.

 

Again, Scot and I didn't cover this so this is me extrapolating from his other interviews that we've read.  And on that front, I do not expect him to go nuts with free agency, Vinny style.  But it wouldn't surprise me at all if they had 2 major FA signings along with some low cost guys.   

 

26 minutes ago, DC9 said:

You need a safety and a DT.  Here's what the board looks like:

 

Best Players Available:

1. Chris Samuels, T

2. London Fletcher, ILB

3. Kirk Cousins, QB

4. Clinton Portis, RB

 

Best Safeties Available:

34. Chris Horton

45. Old Ryan Clark

 

Best DTs Available:

28. Cornelius Griffin

99. Anthony Montgomery

 

Who do you pick?  It's pretty easy... :ols:

 

If I was able to have a lunch with Scot I probably would've embarrassed myself and asked if he wanted an apprentice. 

 

I don't think the Skins should go out looking to set some more records but unless they manage to get some more picks between the 1-3 rounds I don't see us getting the number of people we need to really upgrade things.  And with the usage of previous picks I'm not sure this is a case where there's a bunch of guys waiting on the bench to step up like Long and Kouandijo on the OL

 

Looking at OvertehCap the Skins shoukd have over 48 million in cap room.  Plus they are around 15 million under this year.  That's a lot to roll over.  Cut Hall, Lauvao and Lichtensteiger.  Maybe renegotiate RJF, McCoy and Paul, extending them and lowering the cap number.  So the Skins could have 70 million to work with.  Plenty to pay their own guys and make  some signings.

 

I don't consider us n win now situations but we do need to win soon.  Kirk will be in his sixth year next year after all, and some of our guys are at the point where, well fans here would go nuts if we signed them to high contracts.

 

BPA is a good approach but I always feel a little antsy about it.  I'm a bit superstitious and when you have definite needs trying to just go BPA feels like making a clever play call.  It's third and inches and instead of going for the first you air it out figuring you can sneak it on fourth down.  Other teams can do it, I expect the Skins to fumble the snap when they try.  Doctson's injury is the football gods patting us on the head, saying "aren't you cute.  Trying to think of next year.  That's wrong, you don't get to do that"

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