visionary Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 5 hours ago, twa said: This will probably fall on deaf ears?.....Sure you didn't mean ignorant or hopelessly bigoted ones? We certainly are due for a recession, one that we are less prepared for by virtue of previous choices....or at least some of us are. Nice deflection. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 22 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said: Nice deflection. ? if asked nicely I might oblige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 UN General Assembly rules against U.S., declaring recognition of Israel capital "null and void" . U.S. threatened to cut off aid to some countries, which abstained. Asshole move by U.S. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/un-jerusalem-trump-vote-result-decision-general-assembly-null-void-a8123106.html In a humiliating blow for Donald Trump on the world stage, the United Nations General Assembly has voted by 128 to nine to declare his controversial decision to recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s capital “null and void”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Trump has officially put the US on an island, we are no longer leading the free world we are walking away from it in order to appease despots, murderers, and religious zealots. I would have never in my life imagined a day when out vote in the UN would be more akin to Russia/China than the leading voice of the West. And all because we have a man bought and paid for by Russia and he is making up foreign policy on a whim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Trump has officially put the US on an island, we are no longer leading the free world we are walking away from it in order to appease despots, murderers, and religious zealots. Hate to break it to you, but we been doing that, we just aren't trying to hide it anymore. 2020 will be either the beginning or the end our role in the 21st century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Trump has officially put the US on an island, we are no longer leading the free world we are walking away from it. And all because we have a man bought and paid for by Russia and he is making up foreign policy on a whim. And the Mexicans will probably vote us all off the island.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Trump bout to order the entire government to switch to Macs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Was watching the news about Trump and I realized a quandary the media is faced with. When discussing a topic, if you don't have someone on to defend Trump then it looks like they are only giving you one side of the story and seems biased. But it you have someone on to defend Trumps action, it is impossible to take that person seriously as an adult that should be listened to. Rock vs hard place. Odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 7 hours ago, goskins10 said: I am sure this will fall on deaf ears - but none the less - Please explain with details and verifiable facts how much of anything going on now is "still better than Hillary". 6 hours ago, twa said: This will probably fall on deaf ears?.....Sure you didn't mean ignorant or hopelessly bigoted ones? We certainly are due for a recession, one that we are less prepared for by virtue of previous choices....or at least some of us are. 1 hour ago, twa said: if asked nicely I might oblige. I'll bite. @twa Would you please do us the honor of answering the bolded part above? Thank you, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 I feel like the trump administration is a lesson in the boy who cried wolf. We have decades worth of people making gigantic deals out of everything. Someone is always there to point out how the way something was done is terrible, and inevitably how the roots of the motivation are from racism/sexism/anti-whatever. At a time when people on the right should be objectively outraged at the administration, the shrug off volumonous examples of anti-American bull****. Things that are objectively bad for us; in part and in whole. They’re able to shrug them off because they have decades of experience shrugging off similar claims, many times when they weren’t warranted. They’re able to shrug them off because they have decades of experience throwing similar claims at others, often times knowing they weren’t warranted. When end you throw around or defend from baseless claims for so long, everything becomes a baseless claim that’s easy to throw or ignore. Our political leadership has enjoyed being the throwers when it suited them, and egged it on. As has our media. And the whole time we’ve been too dumb to behave better. We carelessly throw around what should be very serious accusations, because it suited our ideological whims. We have the government we deserve. And most of us stil don’t seem to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 2 hours ago, hail2skins said: I think many people who say this will probably point to the judicial appointments led by Mitch McConnell that have happened, and what that will mean for the social/cultural issues of the country going forward. Also think that they will point to the tax cuts, deregulation, and that the economy does appear to be getting "slightly" better than it was under Obama. GDP was positive under Obama, but in the more recent years probably not as positive as folks would like. Granted, its not growing at an "astonishingly well" rate either (was surprised to hear Dana Bash on CNN say that yesterday), but I guess close to 3 percent. However, what effect he increased deficits and deregulation have remains to be seen. Also, I don't think a lot of people are necessarily against doing something sensible about immigration instead of kicking it down the road. I think it can be true that Trump, policy and performance-wise, isn't necessarily the disaster some feared, while at the same time conceding that the guy is the biggest egomaniac ever to hold the office and is personally not well-liked. But it seems that folks in this political climate either have to completely support him and overlook his jackass personality, or completely hate him and be against any of his agenda. I agree with what you said a few pages ago regarding what the Dems have to do to win. They have to follow the playbook of the guy in PA (Lamb?) and give people a reason to vote for them other than "I'm not Trump." First, thank you for a reasoned response. I disagree with a lot of it but I appreciate the conversational tone. I hope you will take my response the same way. If it comes off different let me apologize now. It's not my intent. I have to say for me, he is every bit the disaster I feared and then some. Some of those "accomplishments" just gloss over how they got there. Also, they make some assumptions about Dems that are false. Let's go through them in order. 1. Judicial appointments - I can see where some that support him see this as an accomplishment. However, I see it a total disaster setting this country back 50 or more years. Most of the appointments are extremists with no experience whatsoever. For example Judge James Ho. Never even made a ruling and his first is filled with right wing talking points, myths and down right lies. Constitution? What Constitution? I am certain many of the people hailing these appointments as good, do not have the slightest clue as to the consequences to their own lives - and none of them good. 2. Tax Cuts - The people that needed the breaks got virtually nothing. I know people are parroting that almost 50% of all people do not pay taxes under the reform. However that number was about 44% before the reform. The people benefiting most are the ultra-rich. If you look at the economy in general you are seeing signs of a slow down. GDP goes up and down month to month. While there have been some good months, overall the increase is nominal. Year over year it is below. The trend line shows the GDP to be pretty steady and the trend line only slightly higher. What continues to be ignored and even lied about is that under President Obama the country's economy was on a steady incline. Nothing has changed much under 45. The stock market is another one lauded by 45s supporters - which is amazing since when it was President Obama any improvement was explained away as just for the rush. Now under 45 it's a true sign of the economy. Below is the DOW Ind. Again steady growth after a low from W. Yes, there was an initial 45 bump that got the DOW to a high of about 26,100. But it has retreated to the 24,500 range - since the tax reform was passed. 3. Immigration - President Obama deported more people than any president in history. However, he also felt a sense of duty to help those that needed it. Something 45 cannot be bothered with. There is not a single person I know that is left to strong left that wants to do nothing about immigration. But immigrants - illegal or otherwise are not the root of all evil. One thing I find amazing is that are screaming the loudest about immigrants are saying nothing about the companies that hire them. If you make it so hard on business if they get caught hiring illegal immigrants, then there would be no jobs and no reason to come here. I am not saying that is the only thing we should do. But it has to be on the table. Also, I am certain most people have no idea how hard it already is to get into the US legally. I know people who have been waiting 5 to 7 yrs to get citizenship. So, yes I am for sane immigration control. But what is being proposed by this administration is not sane. It's punitive and hateful, done so purposefully to appease a bigoted base. I agree about the polarization. It may seem I am that part that just hates everything 45 does. However, while I do dislike most everything he does, I have data to support my position. It's not one out of emotion. The Tea Party started all this garbage. They have to be rooted out, along with the extreme left that has become just as out of touch with real people as the far right has. I saw today there are a few Senators that may plan to vote as a block, but only if the leadership becomes more moderate. Get rid of McConnell, and Schumer and bring in more moderate leadership. Lets get back to compromise for the better of the entire country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, goskins10 said: I have to say for me, he is every bit the disaster I feared and then some. I just want to address this one line. Now I don't know what your expectation was when he was taking office but for me he has been far less than the disaster I expected. I fully expected by the time he hit is 1st year that we would be heavily involved in 2 new wars on different fronts (probably NK and Syria was my guess at the time). I thought he would have kicked the UN out of NYC and fully pulled out of NATO. I expected at least mild armed conflict with Mexico. I expected the global economy to be in the tank. I expected at least some politically motivated violence in the streets (like mass violence, not like we have seen so far). I would not have been at all surprised if nukes had been used or looked like they were very likely to be used. I expected him to at least have rumors if not a full investigation going on him ordering certain US citizens to be killed. I expected the beginnings of oil being drilled for in Yellowstone. Pretty much I expected all the worst parts of the bible. I am actually kinda relieved at how not-bad he has been when compared to my expectations. (I should bookmark this for when I invariably get called a GOP/Trump supporter every few weeks.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I just want to address this one line. Now I don't know what your expectation was when he was taking office but for me he has been far less than the disaster I expected. I fully expected by the time he hit is 1st year that we would be heavily involved in 2 new wars on different fronts (probably NK and Syria was my guess at the time). I thought he would have kicked the UN out of NYC and fully pulled out of NATO. I expected at least mild armed conflict with Mexico. I expected the global economy to be in the tank. I expected at least some politically motivated violence in the streets (like mass violence, not like we have seen so far). I would not have been at all surprised if nukes had been used or looked like they were very likely to be used. I expected him to at least have rumors if not a full investigation going on him ordering certain US citizens to be killed. I expected the beginnings of oil being drilled for in Yellowstone. Pretty much I expected all the worst parts of the bible. I am actually kinda relieved at how not-bad he has been when compared to my expectations. (I should bookmark this for when I invariably get called a GOP/Trump supporter every few weeks.) There is still time.... I honestly did not expect it to be that bad - maybe out of misplaced faith in the rest of the system. Was not worried about the short term of the economy. It's the long term i am concerned about. These things do not change over night. I was and still am worried about a war and the use of nuclear weapons. So I guess I am at least relieve that has not happened. It is too early to think he is done screwing up. I honestly believe that if the 2018 elections do not go his way I expect him to quit. That way he can blame it on others since nothing is ever his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Cooked Crack said: Trump bout to order the entire government to switch to Macs. Given those tweets, I have zero expectations of him to understand what Group Policy is or why that matters to NIST compliance. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/05/trump-closes-job-opening-for-cyber-czar-raising-protests-from-congress/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, goskins10 said: I honestly believe that if the 2018 elections do not go his way I expect him to quit. That way he can blame it on others since nothing is ever his fault. I don't believe this. The FACT (despite his protestations over illegal votes) that he lost the nationwide popular vote has to really stick in his craw and you know that he really wants to show that he can win it.....even if he wins it by less than a percentage point, he will call it the greatest victory ever. Like someone said a few pages ago, I agree that there's a good chance he gets reelected in the electoral college but loses the popular vote again. I think, regardless of what happens in 2018, the continued theme of Trump of blaming the inaction of Congress for the lack of progress on his agenda. I kind of agree with him somewhat, although its pretty difficult given how all over the place he is on just about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 minute ago, hail2skins said: I don't believe this. The FACT (despite his protestations over illegal votes) that he lost the nationwide popular vote has to really stick in his craw and you know that he really wants to show that he can win it.....even if he wins it by less than a percentage point, he will call it the greatest victory ever. Like someone said a few pages ago, I agree that there's a good chance he gets reelected in the electoral college but loses the popular vote again. I think, regardless of what happens in 2018, the continued theme of Trump of blaming the inaction of Congress for the lack of progress on his agenda. I kind of agree with him somewhat, although its pretty difficult given how all over the place he is on just about everything. You are probably right and he doesn't quit. It's just my gut. And he can blame congress all he wants but he keeps making deals then changing the terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 48 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I'll bite. @twa Would you please do us the honor of answering the bolded part above? Thank you, sir. As already mentioned judicial positions are a improvement....and being filled The EPA and energy policy was in dire need of reform. The military in both funding and focus needed changes. State dept needed a cleansing and better focus. Immigration needed addressed rather than continued deferral His election reawakened the need for states rights and limited federal power W/o his election the # Me Too movement would have went the way of Hillary's hot sauce I in general abhor him, but sometimes a good bout of dysentery wakes people up I have to agree he is not as bad as I thought....so far we can ,and will, do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 8 hours ago, goskins10 said: Please explain with details and verifiable facts how much of anything going on now is "still better than Hillary". 3 minutes ago, twa said: As already mentioned judicial positions are a improvement....and being filled The EPA and energy policy was in dire need of reform. The military in both funding and focus needed changes. State dept needed a cleansing and better focus. Immigration needed addressed rather than continued deferral His election reawakened the need for states rights and limited federal power W/o his election the # Me Too movement would have went the way of Hillary's hot sauce I in general abhor him, but sometimes a good bout of dysentery wakes people up I have to agree he is not as bad as I thought....so far we can ,and will, do better. Perhaps you missed that part that makes it important. I quoted it again, bolded and underlined this time. Details and facts are usualling important in discussions. How are judicial appointments and improvement? ( I get this is very much opinion based so it is hard to use facts. I'll give you a pass here) What about the EPA was wrong and what has Trump done that was better than Hillary's proposal? Same for military, State Dept, and Immigration. How has His election reawakened the need for states rights and limited federal power? What makes you think the #metoo wouldn't have happened under Hillary? I especially am interested in your opionon regarding the State Dept. I am all for trimming some fat from government agencies. How is the current lack of diplomats better? Do you think Hillary would have left even more empty and that would be worse? Please clarify how what Trump is doing is better than what you believe Hillary would have done. It is easy to say "this sucked, that sucked, this other one sucked, etc" But you haven't given any details, facts, or even shown how what Trump has done is better than what Hillary wanted to do. I get opinions are subjective but at least give some details so we can better understand you view. Please? (thrown in since you apparently require being asked nicely). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Details are missing from your reply as well fwiw. There is general agreement even within State that it is bloated and unwieldy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, twa said: Details are missing from your reply as well fwiw. Well the original question was to people who had claimed "still better than Hillary" and since I hadn't claimed that, I didn't have an argument to back up. I do appreciate your graph. I would like a little more detail on how exactly what Trump is doing is better than Hillary. For example, if you were able to show that Trump had cut out some lower-level, not necessary jobs you would have a good point. Do you think not having an ambassador to South Korea makes Trumps position better than Hillary? Your graph only shows that State spending has increased. Has Trump lowered it? Has our standing in the world improved? If you think so, how? I know you are smart enough to make a good argument if you want to. I'm asking you kindly to do so. I don't even expect you to show a well reasoned point on multiple departments. Just provide a response that includes details and facts as to one thing that makes Trump better than Hillary. Since we have started down the road of State, I would suggest sticking with that but it's up to you. Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 State's budget was cut 37%? Our standing is not dependent on State and changes with events,State helps with events. The lack of a SK ambassador does not seem to be much of a problem at this point, perhaps more progress is made w/o them being so diplomatic at times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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