Trump and his cabinet/buffoonery- Get your bunkers ready!

[Dan T.]

[Bang]

Hard to believe the attitude, PP.

It's not about candidates at this point...  right now it's about survival as a country. Oh sure, we'll "survive".. sort of like that guy on breathing tubes and machines laying in a hospital bed forever is 'surviving"..   but everything this nation has ever tried to stand for is being destroyed right now.

Lying like that to one of our closest allies, boasting afterward how without any thought or information our President just decided to bully another head of state with lies is very troubling. 

This isn't politics.. it's about losing every bit of standing And trust we had in the world. We are actively switching sides in the forever global struggle of freedom vs oppression. Our allies don't trust us, and for damn good reason. 

 

"give independents a candidate to vote for" is so far beyond the concern at this moment. 

What independents got was what we typically see..  we got a clear cut look at what NOT to vote for. No matter what our resident Russian collective says, it's NOT better than Hillary, no matter how 'bad' she may have seemed. In comparison, there's very very few who could be worse.

Unfortunately this is more often than not the way elections go, and they always have. 

I can't remember the last time in any national level race in which i had to sit down and really weight it between two candidates from both sides that are good. Almost 100% of the time a candidate loses my vote over something i dislike rather than a candidate gaining it for being what i want. I usually spend election seasons with the attitude of 'show me why i should vote for you", but almost always end up with "this is why i won't vote for this one."

 

~Bang

[bearrock]

24 minutes ago, tshile said:

Around here, yes you must. Else you get exactly what you just got. 

 

By the way, have you said they're both equally bad? Or that they're in any way equal? Just curious. I haven't seen it, maybe you did. That's their favorite tactic - claim you said they're both "equally bad" so they can go back to their botherism and whataboutism speeches.

 

Hmm....

 

12 hours ago, PokerPacker said:

Nope.  Nor do I want someone like Clinton.  I lost the election long before the first vote was cast.

 

12 hours ago, PokerPacker said:

I have to stop your analogy here.  Clearly people have differing opinions on the level of absolute **** the two candidates were.  Your analogy fails by only painting things in terms of your own personal opinion of the candidates.  I could make the same analogy with a different set of opinions on the candidates:

 

On this particular day in November 2016, we were all (almost literally) placed on a life-raft in the middle of the ocean, told we were going to have to be there for 4 straight years....... and we were collectively given a choice between collectively getting a supply AIDS-infected sewage that people someone has spent a lot of time sculpting into the shape of a sandwich (oddly, someone was trying to make it look like a sandwich before you even set sail, much less got stranded), and a hastily prepared diarrhoea stew.

 

Of course that analogy gets us nowhere; it just states that both candidates were ****, which is merely one person's view on the choices.

Ah, yes, my response to someone being lambasted for voting their conscience rather than voting how someone else tells them they should vote.  How pompous of me.

 

I guess he could be saying that Clinton is actually worse? (I'm guessing sandwich shaped AIDS infected sewage is worse than diarrhea stew.  Do I need a viral load count on that?).  Or was this meant to be some random hypothetical which he doesn't agree with?  The both candidates were **** line seems telling of his opinion.  Or should we be comparing which **** is better?

 

Quote

-Continuation of PokerPacker's quote above-

 

If someone tells me that I voted incorrectly because I voted for the person I truly believe to be the best candidate running rather than using their methodology for picking a candidate to vote for, that is where I start to have a problem.  If you don't want someone like Trump being president, then don't go throwing your blame at me for not voting for the person you voted for.  I certainly am not blaming individuals for it.  It is a systemic problem that needs to be solved at its root.

 

Let's take an example.  A ten year old child is running around the house with a loaded gun.  There is undoubtedly a root problem there.  That's exercise of bad decision by the child.  Someone somewhere messed up for the child to have access to a loaded gun.  In an ideal world, you would like a child to exercise better judgment and tell a responsible adult when they see a dangerous object instead of deciding to play Rambo.  You should work towards that goal.  Instilling the ability and habit of exercising independent good judgment is a necessary job of every parent.  Sure, no problem.  Except, in that moment, you better get off your ass and do everything in your power to take that gun away from that child.  You can address all the root problem to your heart's content later on.  But job number 1 in that moment is to disarm the child.  If you choose another methodology for dealing with the situation, then people can and should tell you that your methodology was bad and that you shouldn't do that in the future.

 

You can vote however you want.  No one is breaking down your door for voting the wrong way (we are not a totalitarian nation.... Yet.).  But if you expect your naive simple declaration that you voted in accordance with your conscience to be a shield against criticism, democracy shouldn't work that way.  Choice is up to you and no one can force you to do anything.  But nothing you do is insulated from criticism of others.  Election is never simple.  Sometimes you vote for your best candidate because dominant parties put up meh candidates or equally laudable candidates or you feel like even the worst case scenario isn't gonna be too bad.  Sometimes you suck it up and say okay one party went crazy and nominated a joke to be a president, better make sure I do what I can to prevent that person from getting elected.  When that person does get elected and proves every bit as insane as people feared (actually probably more so), then you suck it up and say okay priority number 1 for the next election should be getting that moron out of office.  

[tshile]

I don't see the need for analogies. Most of these seem bad anyways. The actual situation seems perfect to analyze. Two bad candidates. The worse one actually managed to win. 

 

It doesn't matter how much you all liked or respected clinton. The results speak for themselves. It was perfectly clear she was a bad candidate before election night. Some people just refuse to accept it.

[bearrock]

7 minutes ago, tshile said:

I don't see the need for analogies. Most of these seem bad anyways. The actual situation seems perfect to analyze. Two bad candidates. The worse one actually managed to win. 

 

It doesn't matter how much you all liked or respected clinton. The results speak for themselves. It was perfectly clear she was a bad candidate before election night. Some people just refuse to accept it.

 

I have no problem accepting that she's a bad candidate.  I can accept it if she lost to Kasich, Bush, Romney, McCain.  Hell, I could even accept if people said I'm gonna go vote third party rather than vote for Clinton v. Rubio or Clinton v. Cruz.  When the other realistic candidate is Donald Trump, I'm gonna have to disagree when someone says it doesn't matter who gets elected between Trump and [you can literally fill in the blank with any presidential hopefuls in US politics right now]. 

 

What's more is that you seem to concede this point when you say that I voted for X because I knew Trump wasn't taking VA, but if it was a toss up state, I might vote differently.  We can reasonably disagree on whether every vote counts in State X (and I will concede that there are some states where it just won't matter), but under the assumption that your vote does indeed count, Trump v. any candidate in modern history should be a landslide every time.

[Larry]

7 minutes ago, tshile said:

The actual situation seems perfect to analyze. Two bad candidates.

 

You'd have a point, if your "actual situation" was the actual situation.  

 

Unfortunately, it's not.  The actual situation was a spoiled racist toddler who thinks that being a dictator would be cool, and who is being openly endorsed by the Kremlin.  And a moderate career politician who's about as ethical as most politicians.  

[DogofWar1]

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

Trump also made **** up about Japan's policy toward car imports at the same fundraiser where admitted to making **** up in claims about trade to Trudeau:

 

“It’s the bowling ball test. They take a bowling ball from 20 feet up in the air and drop it on the hood of the car,” Trump said of Japan. “If the hood dents, the car doesn’t qualify. It’s horrible,” he said. It was unclear what he was talking about.

 

The article's authors should get the Pulitzer Prize for Understatement for that last line.

 

I feel like there's a good chance he heard about how Nintendo tested their handhelds by dropping them from around 5 feet, and then did what he always does to everything, embellish in a way that supports whatever worldview he has at the moment.

[Dan T.]

A Donald Trump fever dream

 

 

[Bang]

Damn, now i want to know the song in that commercial. Sounded pretty good!

 

~Bang

[Renegade7]

9 hours ago, PokerPacker said:

I was a Texas resident throughout the entirety of 2016 (side note: Texas awarded an electoral vote to Ron Paul, so it truly was the state that best represented me).  And no, I would not vote any differently.

I disagree with your vote and your stance on it, but Dems going after Independents that didn't vote for Hillary is a mistake, we should not be doing this if we want them to caucus with us or consider voting Dem in the future. 

 

Even if every independent in Texas votes Dem, Trump still wins the state.  Asking every Independent in the country to vote for Hillary would've won the election because of how close some states were, but asking every Independent to do that feels dead wrong to me. 

 

Hillary should've done a better job campaigning in swing states, especially in the Midwest, instead of thinking she had it in the bag.  I hate seeing what's going on in here, ya'll put people on blast in person about this as well?  We didn't show up to vote for our own candidate, why are we mad they didn't either? 

 

Talking about how horrible Trump is is something we knew before the election, but the Dem turnout was still down in several states.  She lost Michigan by 10,000 votes, but she got 300K less votes then Obama did in 2012.  That's more then all the people that voted Independent in that state for that election combined.

[Larry]

9 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

I feel like there's a good chance he heard about how Nintendo tested their handhelds by dropping them from around 5 feet, and then did what he always does to everything, embellish in a way that supports whatever worldview he has at the moment.

 

My assumption is that some staffer told Trump an analogy, and said staffer was simply stunned to see The Boss repeating his words as fact. 

[LadySkinsFan]

Where Trump stands in relationship to other modern presidents as to grade level speech. Organization analyzed the first 30,000 words of each president. 

 

Trump is lowest at mid Fourth grade level. Surprisingly, Hoover is first at Eleventh grade level.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-fire-and-fury-smart-genius-obama-774169

 

 

 

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

  And a moderate career politician who's about as ethical as most politicians.  

And yet she couldn't win.

 

Like I said - results speak for themselves.

[Kilmer17]

The blame debate still fascinates me.  

[tshile]

8 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Where Trump stands in relationship to other modern presidents as to grade level speech. Organization analyzed the first 30,000 words of each president. 

 

Trump is lowest at mix Fourth grade level. Surprisingly, Hoover is first at Eleventh grade level.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-fire-and-fury-smart-genius-obama-774169

 

 

 

Same thing came out during the campaigns.

 

Turns out when you speak like a 4th grader lots of people like you.

[The 12th Commandment]

Here's my analogy for the bothsiderism situation:

 

You're in the desert dying of thirst.  You come across three cups.  One is filled with water contaminated with cyanide and you can smell the almonds way before you take a drink.  One is filled with water contaminated with feces and you can smell that too but it isn't likely to kill you, right away anyhow.  The third is really small and is filled with sand. 

 

Only one of them is going let you survive (albeit with an Oregon Trail worthy case of dysentery).  And if you choose the sand then you're not very pragmatic.

[AsburySkinsFan]

11 hours ago, PokerPacker said:

 

Now something else: I am annoyed by the constant harping from people in here telling me and folks like me that we're terrible/stupid/whatever other insults hurled our way because we didn't vote for Clinton as they demanded we do.  That kind of "you're with us or **** you" mentality is the kind of thought process I expect from our President.  I expect better from the Tailgate.

A vote for ANYONE other than Clinton was a vote for Trump. Whatever balm you need to soothe your chaffing at that fact I’ll leave you to apply. I recommend Gold Bond though.

[Bang]

Lots of people fall for cons.

Lots of people seem smart, but truly haven't got the slightest lick of sense.

 

I guess that can translate to "people like you".. but if i was one of those voters suckered by this charlatan, i'd be pretty ****ing embarrassed by how easily i was manipulated.

Or, i'm too stupid to realize it. (Because actually looking at this presidency thus far and believing it is good also qualifies for the 'too stupid to know better' column... with a nudge maybe into the 'too stubborn to admit it" column)

For me, there isn't any middle ground left. If you voted for Trump, you're either an idiot or a sucker.

Folks can argue it all they want. but reality is what it is.

 

~Bang

[AsburySkinsFan]

20 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Like I said - results speak for themselves.

It sure does, Hate, greed, xenophobia, homophobia, totalitarianism, and Evangelical Shariah are evidently more powerful motivators for the voting populace than levelheaded, qualified, knowledgeable, and fair leadership.

[Bang]

Just now, AsburySkinsFan said:

It sure does, Hate, greed, xenophobia, homophobia, totalitarianism, and Evangelical Shariah are evidently more powerful motivators for the voting populace than levelheaded, qualified, knowledgeable, and fair leadership.

And how easy it is to spread discord and misinformation.

to build on what i said above, i can actually forgive folks for being suckered.. people do.. it happens all the time. But by now you better damn sure have figured it out.

 

~Bang

[tshile]

4 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

A vote for ANYONE other than Clinton was a vote for Trump. Whatever balm you need to soothe your chaffing at that fact I’ll leave you to apply. I recommend Gold Bond though.

It's a good thing you don't get to make the rules.

[AsburySkinsFan]

16 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Turns out when you speak like a 4th grader lots of people like you.

Well that speaks so highly of the GOP voters like yourself.

Just now, tshile said:

It's a good thing you don't get to make the rules.

Yet

[tshile]

1 minute ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Well that speaks so highly of the GOP voters like yourself.

 

I haven't voted for the GOP in the last two elections. 

 

You don't seem able to retain information. You've been told this at least 10 times.

[AsburySkinsFan]

1 minute ago, Bang said:

And how easy it is to spread discord and misinformation.

to build on what i said above, i can actually forgive folks for being suckered.. people do.. it happens all the time. But by now you better damn sure have figured it out.

 

~Bang

Exactly, there is simply ZERO excuse for still supporting Trump. If you do then you are either a billionaire or a moron. Check your wallet.

1 minute ago, tshile said:

I haven't voted for the GOP in the last two elections. 

 

You don't seem able to retain information. You've been told this at least 10 times.

If you think your voting record is something I put on my mental list of things I care about then you obviously consider yourself more worthy in my world than reality would suggest.

[Dan T.]

I think a lot of the criticism of third party voting in the 2016 election is prejudiced by the benefit of hindsight. There was EVERY indication that Clinton had the election won.  A person weary of the process, bombarded by years of the GOP Clinton smear campaign (and months of the Russian-led Clinton smear campaign), and disappointed their certain Vermont grandpa came up short might be forgiven for voting third party.  Lesson learned.  A painful, republic-damaging lesson learned...