Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 On 11/8/2016 at 10:43 PM, moondog said: The dude is a 2nd year back on a rookie contract. He's not going anywhere and there is no reason to move him until his rookie contract is up. Especially right now, he's great depth to have. But I'm going to be pissed if he's stealing more than 5 carries a game from Kelley. 99% of our carries should go to Kelley and Thompson if they're healthy, imo. I agree that you want to keep him bc he is on a team friendly rookie contract, another solid reason is that Gruden has openly said they will limit Thompson's touches to max 20 so you need Jones in case Kelley gets injured. The problem with keeping Jones as depth is that you need your RB3 to play teams, and Matt Jones doesnt play teams = inactive. The point when I turned from Jones was when it came out that he really doesnt love football. I want guys like Junior Gallette or Sua Cravens or Pierre Garcon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownRocks111 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 On Wednesday, November 09, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Audible_Red40 said: I love me some Scot McCloughan, but he got my hopes up with saying Matt Jones is similar to Marshawn Lynch. I know it's early but no signs point to that. Let's just hope he is a bit closer to his prediction of Ty Nsekhe! hahaha i mustve missed the ty nsekhe comment what did GMSM say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 The Davis comparison is better than the Lynch one, but neither are very good. It's looking like he's not even going to be active, so we'll get to see a little Mack attack too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 i wanna see a lil' Mack Attack..he looked sweet in the preseason.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 thought it was interesting that Mack and Matt Jones split carries at Florida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I still believe Jones has the most upside of the RBs we have, but he has to WANT to play with his pads lower. No one can want that for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjinhan Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 From what we have seen for past two years... I think Matt Jones project is done in WAS. It's not talent that Jones is lacking but just the intangibles (the "want to")... for RB position which is such a physically punishing position, I am not sure if the desire to run over or attack someone is something that a person can develope over time at the NFL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoVaSkins21 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Matt Jones definitely has the explosion, but the fumbling and indecisiveness are the big negatives against him. The guy clearly didn't correct the fumbling problem from last year. He holds the ball way too low where defenders are just going to swat it out of his hands. When he hits the hole, there is no reason to tip toe, just go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Don't understand why people talk about a lack of decisiveness as a major issue for Matt. His biggest issue, after fumbling, is falling like a sack of potatoes after contact. Even with this issue, he averages 4.6 yards per attempt without loads of monster runs. Overall, his yardage is distributed pretty well. Remember, if not for injury and fumble issues, we'd be talking about a RB on his way to a 1000 yard season. Most of his negative runs have occurred when there is an obvious fail up front. If decisiveness was a major issue, you would expect a very bad run distribution especially given his second biggest issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 5 hours ago, SAli457180 said: Matt Jones definitely has the explosion, but the fumbling and indecisiveness are the big negatives against him. The guy clearly didn't correct the fumbling problem from last year. He holds the ball way too low where defenders are just going to swat it out of his hands. When he hits the hole, there is no reason to tip toe, just go. I don't really see the explosion. I see a big back that plays with heavy, plodding feet. His biggest plus is his ability to lower his pads and drive defenders back to pick up extra yards. Yet he consistently gets upright or tries to make finesse moves (i.e. slowing down and trying to spin or do something fancy) about 90% of the time when approaching defenders. This eliminates his only advantage as he has zero finesse skill at all in terms of making defenders miss. On his breakaway run to seal the Giants game he completely ran out of steam and looked completely gassed after running just 50 yards. When he's given the ball in the backfield with a defender in his wait he routinely just runs right into them for a loss or no gain. Kelley consistently made that first guy miss and either gained yards or turned a negative play into at least a run back to the LOS. I've seen nearly zero upside from Jones, mostly because of the way he plays mentally. He's got some physical tools but not really much more than what I've seen from Fat Rob and Kelley actually can make people miss on top of moving the pile. As you said, in no way, shape or form am I advocating cutting him, at least not this year. But on top of playing weak and fumbling routinely, Jones also has consistently shown he's injury prone and will miss time. I was actually excited he was out so that it forced the coaches to play Kelley the other weak and that tells you about all you need to know about Jones. I'm equally excited this week to see what the combo of Kelley/Brown/Thompson gives us because I think they are actually all productive football players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 39 minutes ago, moondog said: On his breakaway run to seal the Giants game he completely ran out of steam and looked completely gassed after running just 50 yards. That was the Eagles game And he didn't looked gased out to me. I've already noticed it after the game, and it more looked like he went "I've made the first down, game is over, woot!". While he should have just keep on running and try to go for the TD. If you have someone catching from the back, it's fine, those guys are paid too, but it really looked like he stop because well, first down was made so there was no point in keeping on running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 3 hours ago, Darth Tater said: If decisiveness was a major issue, you would expect a very bad run distribution especially given his second biggest issue. Man, I really didn't want to talk about Matt Jones anymore. Just so sickened with the way he's discussed here, but you went and posted something that was enjoyable to read and objective, so you encouraged me to respond. I agree completely with what I quoted above, most who say the opposite are just still going off of last year. It's poor analysis and almost exclusively perception-based. He's been way more decisive behind the LOS this year, and that's where those positive numbers come from. But I'd also disagree with you about him "falling like a sack of potatoes" as being an issue, let alone a major one. A few weeks back, when people were still coming with the same redundant shoddy analysis, I kept mentioning his Yards After Contact numbers being 5th overall according to PFF: Quote 15. Matt Jones is averaging 3.2 yards after contact per carry, the fifth-best mark among running backs. After having a down rookie season, Jones has been much more impressive in 2016. Four of his best seven rushing games of his career have come in the last four weeks, including his best game coming against the Browns in Week 4. His toughest test for the entire season will come on Sunday, though, when he faces Baltimore. The Ravens have only allowed 80 rushing yards per game, third-fewest for teams who haven’t had their bye week yet. I don't think I've ever had a single response about that, which is why I continue to view the way people talk about Matt here how I do. It really is something. He does anything well, it's either omitted from the conversation or completely downplayed while exclusively focusing on what he supposedly "missed" or could've done better. :/ I don't know what it's at now since I don't have a subscription to PFF, but those numbers made plenty sense to me at the time. What I've noticed from him this year is a massive improvement in terms of decisiveness behind the LOS. He stopped bouncing plays outside like he used to when a block wasn't made or lost. He's a big boy, so guys get their arms on him or wrap him up but he'd almost always get an extra yard or two. For me, either people are not watching how other RBs react to contact, or their criticism is not based on anything other than bias. Other backs will either go down on initial contact or they'll break a tackle and make something big happen. So it has a certain flashy element to it, if you will. Matt Jones doesn't exactly break tackles, but he generally nets a few more yards after first contact simply because of his size and strength. I think the lack of flashy "break tackle and explode for big gain" plays is the cause of the false perception that he's just going down right away or that he's weak and not getting much after contact. Sure, he can get more, but it's pretty ridiculous to see the extent of criticisms levied at him when he's actually doing well in that category. To your point, though, his problem is on the second level in general, not behind the LOS. He still is unsure of how he wants to finish his runs once he gets there, and he thinks he can outrun guys instead of using his size more. The fumbling reoccurring the last few weeks is unacceptable, of course. Those problems may be insurmountable, and maybe he never fixes them... but I hope this demotion, and possibly being inactive on gamedays, has him working extra hard to get it done. Would be a big boon for the team if he can correct those issues, he's got a lot of upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 My arrogant, judgmental and obsessive opinion of Matt Jones is that he's just not very good. No vision, cutback ability, openfield moves and he simply won't use his size to his advantage. I see no reason to cut him because he could potentially develop but I'm no longer expecting him to be the lead back Scot envisioned. I'm going to just go ahead and guess that if Dalvin Cook is on the board when we pick that he'll be in the burgundy and gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 58 minutes ago, Wildbunny said: That was the Eagles game And he didn't looked gased out to me. I've already noticed it after the game, and it more looked like he went "I've made the first down, game is over, woot!". While he should have just keep on running and try to go for the TD. If you have someone catching from the back, it's fine, those guys are paid too, but it really looked like he stop because well, first down was made so there was no point in keeping on running. You are correct, good Sir. The Giants game was the diving pick by Su'a. I kind of thought the same thing about that run but to be honest I'd actually prefer him running out of gas rather than just deciding not to score. Not a big deal either way cuz we won and it was a nice run. It was just more to the point about explosion. TSO I feel you in the sense that so many fans on this message board give up on guys immediately and say they suck if they aren't the best at their position in the league and/or playing for peanuts. As I said, we certainly need to keep Jones but every positive you've mentioned about him I see in Kelley but I also see plenty more in him. He hasn't put the ball on the ground, he almost always finishes his runs at the second level and is decisive there and/or moves the pile, and he damn near always makes the first guy miss. Someone earlier mentioned how often if Jones gets tangled up in the backfield it's the line's fault. They are absolutely right. But as I said above Jones only seems to be effective once he gets going, otherwise it's like his feet are in mud and when this happens it's almost always a negative play. Fat Rob routinely made that guy miss when the line or one lineman had a bad play and he turned it into a positive. All I'm really saying is that in the preseason and in the limited action we've seen, I have seen much more to be excited about with Kelley than I have with Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 8 minutes ago, Taylor703 said: My arrogant, judgmental and obsessive opinion of Matt Jones is that he's just not very good. x 1,000,000,000,000 7 minutes ago, moondog said: TSO I feel you in the sense that so many fans on this message board give up on guys immediately and say they suck if they aren't the best at their position in the league and/or playing for peanuts. As I said, we certainly need to keep Jones but every positive you've mentioned about him I see in Kelley but I also see plenty more in him. That's fair, brother. I like Kelley, and Brown for that matter, a lot as well. I never spoke about Matt in terms of comparing him with our other backs, or putting anyone else down, so that's an entirely different conversation for me and I agree with a lot of what you're saying about that (for now). I hope someone takes the job and goes off. Thanks for not being arrogant, judgmental and obsessively redundant about your opinion on the young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said: That's fair, brother. I like Kelley, and Brown for that matter, a lot as well. I never spoke about Matt in terms of comparing him with our other backs, or putting anyone else down, so that's an entirely different conversation for me and I agree with a lot of what you're saying about that (for now). I hope someone takes the job and goes off. Thanks for not being arrogant, judgmental and obsessively redundant about your opinion on the young man. No problemo man, that's not why I'm here. Unless of course it's in regards to players on other teams in the division! I will always hope guys on our roster get it all figured out and go off. We can use every success story we can get. One guy I feel hasn't gotten enough love on here is Thompson. He's another guy that seemingly everyone was writing off and of course the obvious was he was injury prone but man I'm sure to a man we are all glad we kept him now. I think he's probably top 5 in the league as a third down back. I'd still take Sproles but Thompson is a huge mismatch and has been great for us. I'm right there with coach wanting to limit his use to avoid injury but he's been electric and he doesn't give away run vs. pass because he's very adept at both. One thing I would like to see us use more with Matt Jones is the screen game. He was damn good in that role last year and we have one of the most athletic lines in the league yet we never seem to run screens...for our RB's or receivers. We've been getting to it a little more with Crowder lately but with our players I think it plays into several of their skill sets and Jones is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 12 hours ago, moondog said: TSO I feel you in the sense that so many fans on this message board give up on guys immediately and say they suck if they aren't the best at their position in the league and/or playing for peanuts. As I said, we certainly need to keep Jones but every positive you've mentioned about him I see in Kelley but I also see plenty more in him. He hasn't put the ball on the ground, he almost always finishes his runs at the second level and is decisive there and/or moves the pile, and he damn near always makes the first guy miss. Someone earlier mentioned how often if Jones gets tangled up in the backfield it's the line's fault. They are absolutely right. But as I said above Jones only seems to be effective once he gets going, otherwise it's like his feet are in mud and when this happens it's almost always a negative play. Fat Rob routinely made that guy miss when the line or one lineman had a bad play and he turned it into a positive. All I'm really saying is that in the preseason and in the limited action we've seen, I have seen much more to be excited about with Kelley than I have with Jones. Wait until Kelley fumbles the ball (because he will at some time, every RB does). Lost will be calling for his head and say we're doomed with RBs that can't handle the ball. You know, at some point after the Lions game, I wonder if Jones didn't hurt himself on the play he fumble on the goal line. He was noted injured after the game, and who knows if it's part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 4 hours ago, Wildbunny said: Wait until Kelley fumbles the ball (because he will at some time, every RB does). Lost will be calling for his head and say we're doomed with RBs that can't handle the ball. You know, at some point after the Lions game, I wonder if Jones didn't hurt himself on the play he fumble on the goal line. He was noted injured after the game, and who knows if it's part of it. As you said, any running back will fumble. But Jones puts the ball on the ground an average of once every ~32 touches. That's an alarming rate for the guy you want to be your bell cow. The fumbles are huge, but as is well documented on the previous three pages, there's a lot more than just the fumbles. If the guy was playing like Marshawn Lynch (only using it because SM said it, I see absolutely none of that in him) we would complain about the fumbles but you'd take the good with the bad. That just has not been the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehard Otis Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Fumbling the Football cannot be tolerated. I trust Gruden's actions here, if it's to show Jones that the The Team is serious about this issue. HOWEVER, I definitely don't want to see Ashburn throw in the towel on this guy. He is clearly the most talented back on the roster - and when his mind's right, he makes a difference on Sundays. It seems like what Jones truly needs is a sports psychologist! When I watch the game, I see a dude that's playing not to **** up & there's no room for playing scared for anyone. I don't know the Running Back Coach's name, but he & Jay have got to inspire confidence in him. @Playaction2Sanders we need Matt Jones, you are absolutely right. I firmly agree with you. What's more, I cannot stomach firing Alfred Morris for a guy that was given up on by Mid-Season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 It could be a maturity issue with him. Yes, he has physical problems that he needs to work on and develop, but he needs to have the 'its mine for the taking' mentality. The best man available is needed. That means Thompson, Kelley, or Mack need to step up. do these guys have the durability to take a lot of carries? We just don't know because they haven't had the chance, yet. But someone needs to step up to the plate and seize the moment, because it can all be gone in a flash, then they're 'old news', aka Jones. Many RBs don't have a long shelf life, they typically fade after 3-4 years, and maybe Jones is just fading quicker. He has some qualities to be a good RB but he has to WANT to be 'the guy' in the backfield, pounding for those much needed 2-3 yds/rush, but he's just not mentally wanting it, and just might be one of the 'coulda woulda shoulda wannabes that fade into NFL obscurity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar1156 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Sounds like he's inative today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Liz Clarke @lizclarketweet 28s29 seconds ago Matt Jones, #Skins 2d year back, healthy scratch v Vikings. Fumbling woes cost him starting job, chance to play today. Faces long road back 0 replies1 retweet0 likes Reply Retweet 1 Like More Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBass1724 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Quote I still say we need Matt Jones The team disagrees with you this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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