I still say we need Matt Jones

[Playaction2Sanders]

While he's had his ups and downs this year when I look at all these other teams around the league, GB, ATL,TB, NY, Minn, SD ( who has nothing behind Melvin Gordon), and other teams with little to no depth at RB and are dealing with a ton of injuries in that area. When you compare Jones to whats left on those teams, despite whats happened with him you'd probably take him.

I know Gruden came out and said Jones is gonna have earn his way back, and Kelley is going to get serious carries from here on out, who knows if down the road we might really need him. Cause quite frankly I'll take our situation at RB over the teams I mentioned all day, course in terms of SD Gordon is looking like a beast, but if he gets hurt I believe their Dir. of media relations is next in the depth chart. Looking forward to seeing what Kelley can do from here on out.

[Bobby Peppers]

Nice to finally have a new thread around here. I agree!!!

 

[Hazel-Ra]

OP:Agreed but I think riding the pine another quarter or 2 will do wonders for his discipline.

[Warhead36]

The talent is there. I still believe in him and I don't think the book has been written on Jones just yet.

[Koolblue13]

He's an unreliable 3rd down back at best right now.

[TSO]

Welp, we know where this thread will be going here real soon. 

He needs to run with more anger. Losing your starting job is one of the fastest ways to force that to happen, so I'm hoping that's what we see from him. He was actually starting to run with more power the last couple games, but then the fumbles started coming and you can't have that. Interestingly, his fumbles were a bit flukey, and not of the same type as last year. Where last year he was careless with the ball once he got to the second level, and defenders were able to poke it out with ease, now they're coming off of handoffs and him trying to make something happen in the redzone unnecessarily.  Either way, bad bad bad, but there is something there to look at objectively. 

I'll always maintain that he's easily the back with the highest upside on our team, if not one among the entire league given his physical skills. I've been extremely satisfied with how the team has prioritized his development, even at the expense of the safer bets.     

He needs experience and seasoning more than the vast majority of backs coming into the league since he barely got carries in college, as well. We've seen him go off in the 4th quarters of games where he received a bunch of carries to get going, so the evidence is there for me to have this belief. 

I'll always desire for our draft picks to get every opportunity to succeed as possible, and I'll never judge them with any finality until AT LEAST their third year in the league.

That being said, perhaps the biggest reason I support Matt and want to see him do well is just how obnoxious people are about him here. He's another one who's become an ES Favorite Target^tm along the lines of Trent Murphy, DHall, Doughty, Golston, Ryan Grant, Lichtensteiger, Cousins,  Niles Paul, etc... so it's always fun to see those guys make the arrogant, judgmental, and obsessed with being right among us look silly in the process.  

[pjfootballer]

Anyone know if he was a fumbler in college?  I don't recall him being a fumbler at FL. That's what makes it so odd.

[Nfcbeasts4721]

He seems to impatient,dances around to much..power house for sure tho..fat rob reminds me of Jones a little bit with more burst and a little more patience..I'd stick with fat rob for now.

[PartyPosse]

Our RB situation isn't much better than any of the teams listed above save for Minny (which is ironic since they probably have the most prolific back in NFL today). 

We overvalue what we have at that position and it's not much. All three are at best occasional change of pace backs. We need to address the position in the offseason whether at draft or FA. If you look at the list of available FA for next year they're all in the same category as Chris Thompson - 3rd down pass catching backs (Andre Ellington, Cadet, Dunbar...) which shows that his style is a dime a dozen. Hard to find everydown backs nowadays. 

[CBass1724]

I'd be totally okay if Twinkle Toes Jones never gets another carry on our football team.  I'm over this experiment.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

perhaps the biggest reason I support Matt and want to see him do well is just how obnoxious people are about him here. He's another one who's become an ES Favorite Target^tm along the lines of Trent Murphy, DHall, Doughty, Golston, Ryan Grant, Lichtensteiger, Cousins,  Niles Paul, etc... so it's always fun to see those guys make the arrogant, judgmental, and obsessed with being right among us look silly in the process.  

I agree with this thought process.  It's always nice to see the proverbial whipping boys improve and shut up the fans.

It's also nice to see UDFAs come in and earn playing time.  I'm kinda split on which way to lean in regards to Kelley and Jones.  I'd like for both to play well, but at the same time, I wish one guy would step up and own the position.  I think I'm more of a Kelley guy, he just seems to get more out of nothing than Jones does.  I'd be interested to see if Jones has a high/higher percentage of negative/nothing plays compared to the rest of the league, but I'm waaaaay too dumb to wrangle those kinda stats.  And it's election day, so my beer mug is full.

Not to derail this riveting new topic, but reading Niles Paul on your list made me really sad.  That guy has moved to front of my fan bus over the years, and I hate to see him go on IR.  His jersey is the one 'real' fans should be buying.  He's a staple in the community as well.  Positive vibes to him for a full recovery.  Love that guy.

[zCommander]

Ball security is a must with any player on the field. Jones ball got punched out from the back by a good defense play. The only thing that sucked for him is that it happened at the goal line and we end up losing that game. I wonder what would have happened if it was at the mid field instead. Would he be still in the dog house? Maybe not. 

I agree he does like to juke a bit but maybe that is his style and is trying too hard to cause mis-direction albeit it always doesn't work in his favor though. Coach can bring him back as the second back instead of the starter to see if he is okay to produce again. 

[bowhunter]

If that's the best we got, we ain't got much. Built like a tank, plays like a Jeep.

[TSO]

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

 I think I'm more of a Kelley guy, he just seems to get more out of nothing than Jones does.

 

I know I've been outspoken (not really, more like a rare voice) in terms of defending Matt, but I've always liked Kelley. And Brown for that matter. No one will find a post of mine putting them down in any way or signaling anything other than that I like their potential. Like I said, the biggest reason I've defended Jones (and I've stated this since the offseason) has been because of what I perceive as an extreme lack of objectivity regarding him. 

I don't actually "like" one of our backs above the other, though I recognize Matt has the highest ceiling. 

So, with that all said, I'm perfectly fine with Kelley being the guy. In fact, I think he should be right now. I just hope the team continues to develop Matt, and every indication is that they are and haven't given up on him. Which is very good.  

 

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I'd be interested to see if Jones has a high/higher percentage of negative/nothing plays compared to the rest of the league

 

Maybe, but I doubt it. That was a legit criticism last year. This year? I think he's actually been very good behind the LOS. He's often made excellent cuts, even when the run wasn't designed to go there, to avoid getting hit in the backfield when one of our linemen got pushed back or lost their block. He's also been one of the better backs in the league in terms of Yards After Contact. This runs completely counter to the popular opinion here on him, which is why I've been adamant about defending him.  

It's when he gets to the second level where he has issues with his style of running and vision. 

 

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Not to derail this riveting new topic, but reading Niles Paul on your list made me really sad.  That guy has moved to front of my fan bus over the years, and I hate to see him go on IR.  His jersey is the one 'real' fans should be buying.  He's a staple in the community as well.  Positive vibes to him for a full recovery.  Love that guy.

 

Totally agree, brother. The way he went out was so fitting for him, too. Just totally laid out for the ball, put his body on the line for the team. Fans literally can't ask for more than that from a player. Just a straight up warrior and exactly what a consummate Redskin entails. 

[TheGreek1973]

4 hours ago, pjfootballer said:

Anyone know if he was a fumbler in college?  I don't recall him being a fumbler at FL. That's what makes it so odd.

Thats the problem from what I know he was not the feature back in college either.  I don't want to see him as long as Kelly is productive.  We are about to play 3 games that will be our season and I swear I am going to loose it if I see Jones put the ball on the turf again and cost us a game.

[Koolblue13]

Alright, whipping boy? Fans don't see Murphy setting an edge or playing the run well, which he did last year. They pile on, because they just want sacks. Hall draws penalties, get's beat and occasionally makes amazing plays. He's an easy target. I don't remember anyone bashing our TE3, except when he was compared to Sharpe, which I don't think anyone believed. Litch is smart, but gets routinely blown up and allows larger NTs to attack straight up the middle. Reed sucked in coverage, but was a solid tackler. He probably would have made a good ILB if he was bigger. Golston, um, I got nothing. Grant doesn't catch ****ing footballs. Seriously? He's a good blocker, but he is still running incorrect routes and dropping crucial passes. He's not going to be an NFL WR. 

I mean, sure, few years down the line, maybe those cats blossom. Look at Amerson. Look at OMG. Sure guys change their game and they improve or fade away in different systems, different locker rooms, whatever.

Matt Jones has never been, nor will he be (most likely) a starting running back. The guy has every physical gift you could ask for. He was running and dancing soft and not fumbling. He finally starts running hard and the fumbles are back. You can't fumble and you have to hit the hole.

Sure keep him around and hope he can do it, but we only have 53 starters and he isn't one. He's not a whipping boy, he's a ****ty running back. We hit our bye, Kelley can learn more formations and blitz pick ups and he can start. Hopefully we get lucky.

[TSO]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Matt Jones has never been, nor will he be (most likely) a starting running back.

 

I was going to write up a long response to this post of yours. There's just so much wrong with it, but you know what? 

This one quote sums up your largely incoherent and rambling post perfectly. I don't need to go further than that and, frankly, I'm not in as confrontational mood as you seem to be here.  

He has "never been, nor will he be" (blanket statement), but then "most likely" - a contradictory qualifier in there just in case.  

Player X will NEVER BE, NOR WILL HE BE a starting Position Y. Most likely, I mean. There's a chance. But NEVER, AND HE WON'T EVER BE!!!! 

[moondog]

The dude is a 2nd year back on a rookie contract. He's not going anywhere and there is no reason to move him until his rookie contract is up. Especially right now, he's great depth to have. But I'm going to be pissed if he's stealing more than 5 carries a game from Kelley. 99% of our carries should go to Kelley and Thompson if they're healthy, imo. 

[Koolblue13]

6 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

I was going to write up a long response to this post of yours. There's just so much wrong with it, but you know what? 

This one quote sums up your largely incoherent and rambling post perfectly. I don't need to go further than that and, frankly, I'm not in as confrontational mood as you seem to be here.  

He has "never been, nor will he be" (blanket statement), but then "most likely" - a contradictory qualifier in there just in case.  

Player X will NEVER BE, NOR WILL HE BE a starting Position Y. Most likely, I mean. There's a chance. But NEVER, AND HE WON'T EVER BE!!!! 

When has he been a full time starting back? This year and what happened? He danced and fumbled his way onto the bench and is injured again.

So yes, he's never been a starting RB.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

18 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

That being said, perhaps the biggest reason I support Matt and want to see him do well is just how obnoxious people are about him here. He's another one who's become an ES Favorite Target^tm along the lines of Trent Murphy, DHall, Doughty, Golston, Ryan Grant, Lichtensteiger, Cousins,  Niles Paul, etc... so it's always fun to see those guys make the arrogant, judgmental, and obsessed with being right among us look silly in the process.  

That may be, but there also comes a point in which the fact may be that, as irritating and obnoxious as people can be about players, they also could be right lol...and when the player doesn't do anything to help backup our staunch support of him, it becomes "I give up", hands in the air time lol...("our" not meaning yours and mine, but "our" meaning any of us).

For a franchise that has a rich history of great running backs, Jones isn't really doing anything. We're getting by with what we have, with Chris Thompson showing himself to be a pretty dynamic role player. Kelly shows real promise. We're still waiting on Jones to show he's gone up a level since his rookie season. I don't think we're seeing signs of that yet.

 

[Audible_Red40]

I love me some Scot McCloughan, but he got my hopes up with saying Matt Jones is similar to Marshawn Lynch.  I know it's early but no signs point to that.

Let's just hope he is a bit closer to his prediction of Ty Nsekhe!

[TSO]

4 hours ago, Califan007 said:

That may be, but there also comes a point in which the fact may be that, as irritating and obnoxious as people can be about players, they also could be right lol

 

Except, it's not about being right for me. That's the entire point. I mean, are we playing some game here to see who ends up right about the most player's careers? I didn't know that, I thought we were Redskin fans meeting up to discuss our favorite team.

Even if they're "right", the process with which they arrived to that conclusion is still wrong. The way they go about it is still wrong. 

I can be an ass about a struggling player and, if he continues to struggle, claim I'm "right" when I really have little to no basis for what I'm saying outside of the fact that he's just struggling RIGHT NOW. Especially if I don't acknowledge any positives in the process, so long as they're there. Never mind the "being an ass" part. 

It doesn't make it okay to lack objectivity, post obsessively in a negative manner while not acknowledging what they do bring to the table (even if it's just one thing, or it's just potential). That's straight bias, and that deserves to be called out. 

Is "being right" about the player's career the end game? If so, that's pretty damn stupid. We should always talk in generalities, then. It seems too many do here. 

For me, the most annoying thing is when people seem to get a kick out of bashing or insulting someone. Like it's their thing. They come into every thread, or conversation involving said player, to state the same narrow-minded assessment they have in an incredibly redundant manner. It's so incredibly cowardly on a message board to do that, in the first place, but there is also the fact that they're Redskin players and we're Redskin fans. 

I get it when it comes to aholes like Haynesworth, Lloyd, Amerson, etc... who take advantage of the team, but otherwise, I will not accept that as anything other than weird behavior. 

 

4 hours ago, Califan007 said:

For a franchise that has a rich history of great running backs, Jones isn't really doing anything.

.......................................

We're still waiting on Jones to show he's gone up a level since his rookie season. I don't think we're seeing signs of that yet.

 

I disagree to an extent. He hasn't improved enough to get to another "level", I guess, but he certainly did "something". His YPC average was pretty good throughout the year and PFF had him as one of the top backs in Yards After Contact. Those are significant improvements over last year. 

Yes, he still has his issues. Namely, his vision on the second level as well as how he uses his body especially in open space. His fumbling problem reoccurring. Those issues may be insurmountable and he may never amount to anything because of them. 

But he's improved over his rookie season in numerous ways. He used to almost always bounce plays outside when it wasn't initially there, now he's much better between the tackles. Even his fumbling problem isn't the same as it was last year, where he was careless with the ball on the second level and it was easy to poke it out. Now it's coming off of more flukey handoffs and him trying to make something out of nothing in the redzone. 

The big thing for me is to talk about the kid objectively, without all the grand proclamations. He's a physically talented, second year youngster, who had little experience in college. I'd simply like to see more speak about him within that context, but that's clearly too much to ask for many (though this thread has been a bit refreshing on that matter).  

 

8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

So yes, he's never been a starting RB.

 

That's not what I was saying, and that's technically incorrect, but okay. No point in this continuing man. 

[Koolblue13]

He's had more carries this season, than he had his entire college and pro career. 

This is his first season as a starter and he lost it. I don't know how that incorrect.

[skins island connection]

 Jones had his opportunity to seize control of the starting position; but he fumbled it away.

 Sitting him for a game or 2 isn't the answer; there is more than the fumbling issue that he needs work with. I'm all for giving a guy a second, even a 3rd chance, but he's had a fumbling issue since he got into the league. If we're driving for a potential game-winning score and he coughs it up again, then he may as well just walk back to his home because he will never sniff the uniform again.

We have RB coaches who don't seem to get into his mind; he needs coaching on ball security, reading blocks, field vision and pass protection. Physically he has the tools but his mind isn't in the right place when he touches the ball. 

Right now Kelley, Brown and Thompson deserve to get their chance to do what they can to help the team. Down the line, unless one of these guys turns into a semi-power back with some speed, Jones may get another chance, unless we find someone else, but I tense up when he's carrying the ball because its a matter of time before he loses it. 

One other thing, Gruden should talk to the players about the hair hanging out from under the helmet. We've seen him get yanked down by the hair before, and if he's held up from behind, someone can come in and deliver a crushing shot on him which will dis-lodge the ball.

[TSO]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

He's had more carries this season, than he had his entire college and pro career. 

This is his first season as a starter and he lost it. I don't know how that incorrect.

 

Because, technically, you said "he's never been a starter", when he was to start this season. But that wasn't even my main point, so I have no idea why you went off on this tangent. It's kind of weird, I wasn't saying anything about that. 

The post of mine you originally responded to had little to do with that and was more about pointing out your flawed logic with the "he'll never be" (blanket statement) but qualified with "most likely" (contradicts the blanket statement). I thought that was funny and indicative of everything I've been saying about how many approach this topic.