Commander -JB- Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said: I just don't understand why it's always so necessary for many among us here, when discussing players or praising their ability, to **** on who they replaced or the "other guy". I've seen so many blatantly exaggerated criticisms of Jones by those crediting Kelley, but I'm just too exhausted now to continue defending the kid, because it comes off as me downplaying his issues or being labeled as someone who thinks he's already great. Even worse, I know it'll be taken as a slight to Kelley for some sick reason. I know it won't even matter if the statements are qualified every single time with praise for Kelley. Nuances in anyone's arguments here are almost never recognized, it's extremely frustrating. Now I have to read Morris getting pooped on here, too. He was just the "product of the zone read" whereas Kelley is perfect for this system. Yeesh. I know I'm sooooo gonna regret this post. He clearly was a product of the zone read. That is fact. He ran poorly in Gruden's scheme & now averages 3.5 yards a carry behind a dominant Cowboys line. I can't see why you're offended at me speaking about a Dallas Cowboy anyway ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, -JB- said: He clearly was a product of the zone read. That is fact. He ran poorly in Gruden's scheme & now averages 3.5 yards a carry behind a dominant Cowboys line. I can't see why you're offended at me speaking about a Dallas Cowboy anyway.. No he wasn't. The zone read was only effective in 2012. He was still a very effective runner through 2014. If you want to associate a system with him, then it'd be the zone blocking scheme/outside stretch zone runs. But his greatest talent was his lower body strength and ability to run through arm tackles with ease. That's something that'd be effective in any scheme, in my opinion. He fell off a bit last season, and I personally believed it was just the amount of carries he'd had up to that point in his career, including in college. Morris was a workhorse his entire career. Physical RBs like that often fall off a cliff. But to say he was a product of the zone read doesn't make much sense. There's no need to trash Morris now that Kelley is excelling. I don't get why it's hard to just be satisfied with that alone without turning it into some indictment on another player when it's rarely that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander -JB- Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Just now, thesubmittedone said: No he wasn't. The zone read was only effective in 2012. He was still a very effective runner through 2014. If you want to associate a system with him, then it'd be the zone blocking scheme/outside stretch zone runs. But his greatest talent was his lower body strength and ability to run through arm tackles like nothing. That's something that'd be effective in any scheme, in my opinion. He fell off a bit last season, and I personally believed it was just the amount of carries he'd had up to that point in his career, including in college. Morris was a workhorse his entire career. Physical RBs like that often fall off a cliff. But to say he was a product of the zone read doesn't make much sense. There's no need to trash Morris now that Kelley is excelling. I don't get why it's hard to just be satisfied with that alone without turning it into some indictment on another player when it's rarely that simple. I'm not necessarily trashing Morris. I liked the guy. I just knew it was time to move on from him because he was a poor fit for our offense. He made a name for himself with the read option, for sure. You are correct, he is more of a fit in a zone blocking scheme. He had a serviceable 2014 season, at best. It was clearly evident last season that he was not the right back for this offense. So IMO to keep bringing his name up as some high bar to set for Kelley is flat out wrong. Like Cheese said on The Wire, "There's no nostalgia to this **** !" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 10 minutes ago, -JB- said: I'm not necessarily trashing Morris. I liked the guy. I just knew it was time to move on from him because he was a poor fit for our offense. He made a name for himself with the read option, for sure. You are correct, he is more of a fit in a zone blocking scheme. He had a serviceable 2014 season, at best. It was clearly evident last season that he was not the right back for this offense. So IMO to keep bringing his name up as some high bar to set for Kelley is flat out wrong. Like Cheese said on The Wire, "There's no nostalgia to this **** !" It did come off like you were overly dismissive of Morris' tenure here, so maybe "trashing" was too harsh but it seemed like it just reading it initially. I agree in that I felt the same way about moving on, but it wasn't because he was a poor fit, in my mind. Maybe in terms of pass catching which is important in our offense... but I think more than anything he had just slowed down a bit as is common with physical, tough runners like him who get fed the ball a ton. That's why I was okay with it, though it sucked to see someone like him go to a rival like that. As far as bringing his name up as some high bar... why not? We're Redskin fans who should be fond of Redskin players in general, let alone a guy like Morris who was nothing but class. He did a lot of good while here so I find it difficult to see a problem with anyone hoping Kelley replicates his success, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander -JB- Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 1 minute ago, thesubmittedone said: Well, I agree in that I felt the same way about moving on, but it wasn't because he was a poor fit, in my mind. Maybe in terms of pass catching which is important in our offense... but I think more than anything he had just slowed down a bit as is common with physical, tough runners like him who get fed the ball a ton. That's why I was okay with it, though it sucked to see someone like him go to a rival like that. As far as bringing his name up as some high bar... why not? We're Redskin fans who should be fond of Redskin players in general, let alone a guy like Morris who was nothing but class. He did a lot of good while here so I find it difficult to see a problem with anyone hoping Kelley replicates his success, you know? I feel you. Like I said, I liked Morris. **** , it was hard as hell not to personally like the guy. Can't even blame him for signing with Dallas if nobody else was interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 It absolutely makes sense to compare our current starting RB, to the last two RBs who've started. Especially when one seems pretty much exactly the same and one is a let down, who didn't take advantage of a physical skill set, superior to the current one (but yes, is young and could still develop, but hasn't yet). Morris absolutely had short comings also and stating them, is hardly putting him down. Pretty sure every single Redskin fan has great memories and respect for him and saying he's slowed down, isn't a pass catching/blocking back, who benefited from zone blocking and a mobile QB is just true, not insulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Kool, I guess the difference is how it's presented. Suggesting he benefited from the Zone Blocking scheme suggest that his particular talents played into the pluses of that scheme, and as such it was a good fit and system for him that helped allow him to excel. Suggesting he's just the "product of" the Zone Read minimizing him to little more than a gimmick that's success was only due to that which he was a "product of". Alfred, especially in his early time here before he began to wore down, had excellent vision and was very good after contact. The later part there wasn't simply a "product of" the zone read. He had a style and skill set that very much benefited from the Zone Blocking scheme routinely employed by the Shanahan's; but it wasn't purely a "product of" that scheme. If it was, we would've been seeing Evan Royster, Roy Helu, and the like having similar success. I'm guessing peoples reactions towards some of the comments with Alfred has to do with the language being used, seemingly taking it a step beyond simply acknowledging his weaknesses and instead basically writing off or dismissing his strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 @ZRagone I don't think anyone is putting him down, I'm certainly not, but to ignore the things he benefited from, that added to his success, makes it seem like he was Adrian Peterson for a year or two. Alf was a good, solid back for us and fit in with exactly what we were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 33 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: but to ignore the things he benefited from, that added to his success, makes it seem like he was Adrian Peterson for a year or two. Did anyone do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron78 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 On 10/30/2016 at 2:18 AM, TryTheBeal! said: Pretty stoked about Fat Rob getting his first start in London. Gotta real good feeling about it. Vision, power, passion...Go get em, Rob! Hail! Rob Kelley is the deserving starter right now. They can cut Matt Jones as far as I am concerned. I would like to see Mack Brown get rotated into the shuffle at some point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 5 hours ago, Ron78 said: Rob Kelley is the deserving starter right now. They can cut Matt Jones as far as I am concerned. I would like to see Mack Brown get rotated into the shuffle at some point though. Jones has far too much talent to just cut, but I'm ready to move on too. I think Jones makes an outstanding 3rd down back personally. So he has roster value, if CT gets injured, but I agree that i don't ever want to see him starting again unless something drastically changes in his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Arugula Jones @Dirty30DaCorta Nov 22 Very interesting #HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Stephen Czarda @SCzardaRedskins 1m1 minute ago Rob Kelley vs. stout run D. Keeping Cousins hot. Other keys for today's #WASvsDAL matchup: http://bit.ly/2f77EJc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Not fair to compare Kelley to Elliott. Elliott played the first few games with a bum hammy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron78 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said: Jones has far too much talent to just cut, but I'm ready to move on too. I think Jones makes an outstanding 3rd down back personally. So he has roster value, if CT gets injured, but I agree that i don't ever want to see him starting again unless something drastically changes in his head. Every time Jones runs, I cringe at the thought he could lose the ball. Trade him if you can, but we are far better off going in a different direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Not fair to compare Kelley to Elliott. Elliott played the first few games with a bum hammy. You are right, not fair to compare, running behind our OL vs. His is just not fair. Chad Ryan @ChadwikoRCC 3h3 hours ago Everyone talking about @J_No24's 'peanut punch' strengths in 2016. Let's not forget we first saw it against Zeke Elliot in week 2 #HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 10 minutes ago, Ron78 said: Every time Jones runs, I cringe at the thought he could lose the ball. Trade him if you can, but we are far better off going in a different direction. Yeah, I do too. However, my point stands. Keep him on the roster, inactive, as a back up to CT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 On 11/23/2016 at 3:55 AM, thesubmittedone said: It did come off like you were overly dismissive of Morris' tenure here, so maybe "trashing" was too harsh but it seemed like it just reading it initially. I agree in that I felt the same way about moving on, but it wasn't because he was a poor fit, in my mind. Maybe in terms of pass catching which is important in our offense... but I think more than anything he had just slowed down a bit as is common with physical, tough runners like him who get fed the ball a ton. That's why I was okay with it, though it sucked to see someone like him go to a rival like that. As far as bringing his name up as some high bar... why not? We're Redskin fans who should be fond of Redskin players in general, let alone a guy like Morris who was nothing but class. He did a lot of good while here so I find it difficult to see a problem with anyone hoping Kelley replicates his success, you know? Preaching to the choir. Been arguing against that nonsense for awhile now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 michael phillips @michaelpRTD 58s58 seconds ago Jay Gruden on Rob Kelley: "The stats don't do it justice as to how hard he was running the ball." Thought he did well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Rob can catch the ball to. It's funny, it seems like the only balls KC doesn't throw right on the money were a few screens to Fat Rob. Chemistry maybe, but I was impressed with the couple balls he has caught and able to adjust to run. I honestly think he has made the need to draft RB way less pressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Barbour Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Playcalling didn't help Rob yesterday. Was having success with Inside zone, outside zone plays, but continued to run dive/traps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 20 hours ago, SWFLSkins said: michael phillips @michaelpRTD 58s58 seconds ago Jay Gruden on Rob Kelley: "The stats don't do it justice as to how hard he was running the ball." Thought he did well. The run blocking was awful. My favorite whipping boys Luvauo and Long were pushed back repeatedly, Moses whiffed, he was dodging people in the backfiled all game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 It was tough sledding last week. I expect defenses to keep run blitzing. Our fantasy and real life team suffered. Our OL may have had its worst day all year; even Cousins got whacked a few too many times for my liking. Maybe Callahan left his playbook there. I am sure I am not the only one happy to see Rob easily handling Kirk's good throws vs Dallas, after defending him after last weeks "drops". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 More Rob Kelley in the redzone....and not out of a wildcat formation FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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