twa Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 So law enforcement practice violence against black people who are unarmed (women in a car, students standing around, men selling individual cigarettes for examples and there are many more) and that's okay? This is specifically directed to you twa. This is a sick situation and it needs to come to an end. Arrest these people. Law enforcement is a bit different out in the sticks, the city folk are much more violent in enforcing laws (no matter the color) intolerance is rampant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Got to say. Part of me is watching because I keep wanting to see these morons get hit with a reality 2x4 between the eyes. But a different part of me is drawing parallels to things like Occupy Wall Street. And I see people occupying public property. And people getting outraged over littering and vandalism and calling for mass arrests. I walked through the Occupy Wall Street encampment in Farragut Square every day for the summer they were there. There is a BIG difference between a bunch of kids camping in a public, federally-owned park (which is really all they were doing, you could, and i did, walk right through the middle of it every day and nobody even gave me a dirty look), and the ARMED takeover of a public, federally-owned park. One can draw parallels, and i have, but you should also recognize that there are BIG differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 One can draw parallels, and i have, but you should also recognize that there are BIG differences. I see one difference. And that's that the people are presumably armed. I also see others. Occupy Sanctuary is camped out in a place where nobody has to go. They aren't exactly blocking traffic. I observe things from The Bundys (I'm talking about the groups, as a whole. Not necessarily one family or individual people) that seem to at least seem to be close to terrorism. Threats to residents and officials. But then, I'm not prepared to conclusively state that there were never any of those things associated with the Occupy movement, either. I'm not saying that I'm certain that the government should do absolutely nothing to these people. I'm saying that I can kinda see how the argument isn't 100% loony. (And, I'll admit. Part of me is thinking that I've been watching this Road Runner cartoon now for a week or more, and I haven't seen Wile E Coyote get run over by a semi, yet.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) I see one difference. And that's that the people are presumably armed. I also see others. Occupy Sanctuary is camped out in a place where nobody has to go. They aren't exactly blocking traffic. I observe things from The Bundys (I'm talking about the groups, as a whole. Not necessarily one family or individual people) that seem to at least seem to be close to terrorism. Threats to residents and officials. But then, I'm not prepared to conclusively state that there were never any of those things associated with the Occupy movement, either. I'm not saying that I'm certain that the government should do absolutely nothing to these people. I'm saying that I can kinda see how the argument isn't 100% loony. (And, I'll admit. Part of me is thinking that I've been watching this Road Runner cartoon now for a week or more, and I haven't seen Wile E Coyote get run over by a semi, yet.) I'll pick one nit, but otherwise i totally agree. You say that they are somewhere that nobody HAS to go. That's probably true, but immaterial. If people WANTED to go there, they are stopping them from freely using a national park. They have zero right to do that. OWS didn't prevent anyone from using the parks they were in. Like i said, I walked right through the middle of "their" park twice every weekday (because im stubborn and i wasnt going to walk around). Otherwise, I agree that the government should not do a whole lot other than monitor the situation. I stated this somewhere earlier in the thread, but the only way these dumb****s "win" is if their constant claims that the gubmint is about to raid them come true. If the feds do nothing, these idiots continue to look like, well, idiots. And as you correctly stated, they aren't REALLY hurting anyone in a way that must be stopped quickly, other than being annoying (another parallel to OWS ). Edited January 19, 2016 by PleaseBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I thought the sanctuary was closed until spring? I'm sure these guys are planning on doing the right thing and evacuating before it reopens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Now, part of does think that maybe the correct federal response to all of this would be to go and obtain federal arrest warrants for every criminal charge they have probable cause for. And then just wait. When Cletus or whatever his name was, shows up at the Safeway with a stolen truck, he gets arrested in the store, then shipped to the Feds, who will then charge him with 11 felonies, at his bail hearing. If one of the Bundys decides to schedule a political rally, a state away, then a state trooper can stop him at a "DUI checkpoint", and same thing. In effect, make the point that no, we're not going to call out the National Guard and set up a Civil War reenactment. But that "everything you say or do, can and will be held against you, in a court of law". One potential drawback I see with that approach, though, is that these Bubbas have been getting away with openly committing felonies, in front of TV cameras, that they probably think they're real tough guys and the government is scared of them. Start arresting some of them, and some of them are gonna shoot the Trooper who pulls them over. And somebody else is going to threaten the Sheriff's family. And similar escalations. Start arresting them, and some of these morons are suddenly gonna look a lot less funny. Because they think they can get away with it. But then I can also see the argument that the government is gonna have to draw a line, somewhere, some day. And the longer we postpone that day, the more entitled these thugs are going to think they are. And therefore there will be less violence if we get started on it, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I thought the sanctuary was closed until spring? I'm sure these guys are planning on doing the right thing and evacuating before it reopens. Yes, all the evidence points to these guys avoiding doing the wrong things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Actually,if memory serves,the refuge was closed just for the Holidays. It's open year round for hiking and bird watching. Fishing starts in April. I'll have to check on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 you'd know better than me. i've really only followed this on es, because this thread is a gold mine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 As a birder, Malheur a pretty special place and definitely on my list of places I have to get to during my lifetime. Its a well known and precious refuge that is right on the pacific flyway. It hosts one of the more desirable birding festivals in the western US. The idea that these jerks are occupying a deserted area that is of no use/interest to anyone is a fallacy. The national park system is one of the true points of pride for this country. While certainly imperfect, we have done a better job of stewarding our unique outdoor spaces than the vast majority of other countries out there. We all have a right to use that space, and these jerks can't claim it for themselves. A statement from Portland Audobon (lots of similar ones out there). http://audubonportland.org/news/audubon-society-of-portland-statement-on-the-occupation-of-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Thanks bcl. I'm in no way trying to downplay what these idiots are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 BCL,the birders,(and others),are beginning to rally in more ways than one. http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/birders_protest_in_bend_agains.html#incart_maj-story-1 At the refuge,small counter protest. http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/birders_protest_in_bend_agains.html#incart_maj-story-1 I think they were planning to have more show up at the refuge today,but there's some nasty weather on the way. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Is there a word for when the counter protest is far larger than the original protest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Is there a word for when the counter protest is far larger than the original protest? antidisestablishmentarianism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 BCL, I don;t think anybody has tried to claim that the country would be better off if we just got rid of this refuge. I'm just pointing out that they aren't exactly seizing a critical place of strategic importance. Or even a place where they can threaten anybody. (Although, considering the level of intelligence displayed by the occupiers, if somebody were to make the claim that they picked this place because they thought it was the secret control center for Skynet, intentionally left completely unguarded, as part of it's cover story, I wouldn't automatically dismiss it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Well if "not a critical place of strategic importance" is the criteria, i claim Haleakala National Park, Maui. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 pb, you've got a friend in me. (and an accomplice, though i only own a red ryder) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) Isn't that the seven sacred pools of Hana? Haleakala is a crater on a dormant volcano. edit..nevermind. It might actually be part of the Haleakala national park - but it's nowhere close to the crater that everyone goes to. It's actually part of Hana...weird that the park covers that area too. Edited January 19, 2016 by The Evil Genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Well if "not a critical place of strategic importance" is the criteria, i claim Haleakala National Park, Maui. I think you're safe on that one. People on twitter haven't grabbed that one yet. Few folks claimed Yosemite pretty fast. Though they all wanted Half Dome. Got there before me damnit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Isn't that the seven sacred pools of Hana? Haleakala is a crater on a dormant volcano. yes. gollum dam near lost his life for bathing in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 pb, you've got a friend in me. (and an accomplice, though i only own a red ryder) I was thinking more along the lines of the below, but I'm sure we can reach some kind of agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I was thinking more along the lines of the below, but I'm sure we can reach some kind of agreement. You REALLY do not want to see Major, dressed like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 BCL,the birders,(and others),are beginning to rally in more ways than one. http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/birders_protest_in_bend_agains.html#incart_maj-story-1 At the refuge,small counter protest. http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/birders_protest_in_bend_agains.html#incart_maj-story-1 I think they were planning to have more show up at the refuge today,but there's some nasty weather on the way. We'll see. As a birder, Malheur a pretty special place and definitely on my list of places I have to get to during my lifetime. Its a well known and precious refuge that is right on the pacific flyway. It hosts one of the more desirable birding festivals in the western US. The idea that these jerks are occupying a deserted area that is of no use/interest to anyone is a fallacy. . A statement from Portland Audobon (lots of similar ones out there). http://audubonportland.org/news/audubon-society-of-portland-statement-on-the-occupation-of-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge I learned long ago... do NOT rile up birders. Or librarians. They are fierce and relentless when on a mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I learned long ago... do NOT rile up birders. Or librarians. They are fierce and relentless when on a mission. And have LOTS of free time that needs filling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I learned long ago... do NOT rile up birders. Or librarians. They are fierce and relentless when on a mission. Plus they have nothing to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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