CNN.com: Russian warplane downed; Turkey says aircraft violated airspace near border

[Xameil]

Putin should do a shirtless press conference

Perv

[twa]

Putin should do a shirtless press conference

 

While riding a bear naturally 

[visionary]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/072308dda5d84180bd2f1e1028853772/latest-russia-says-1-downed-pilot-held-syrian-army

The Latest: Putin says second pilot rescued, now safe
 
Russian President Vladimir Putin says a second pilot from a Russian warplane that was shot down by Turkey near the Syrian border has been rescued.
 
Putin was speaking in televised comments on Wednesday after Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu told Russian news agencies that the man was rescued in a 12-hour operation which ended in the early hours on Wednesday and is now "safe and sound" at Russia's air base in the government-controlled area in Syria.

 
https://twitter.com/AFP

BREAKING Putin calls for Russians not to visit Turkey after plane downing
4:21 AM

 
https://twitter.com/DannyNis

Russia conducting airstrikes now in the Turkmen mountains near the Turkish border, in the same area where pilots ejected yesterday.
2:18 AM

 

Russia moving naval-AA missile platform to Syrian coast. Could threaten Turkish F 16s attempting to intercept Russian bombers near border
2:57 AM

 

https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister

Depending on missile model, Russia’s S-400 could range over 1/2 of Turkey, all of Cyprus, all of Lebanon & south to Jerusalem & Israel
3:59 AM

Great.  Russia already has been ordering around air traffic in Lebanon and Iraq.  They seem to think they own the area.

[kost203]

1.  Isn't the Greek issue an issue of how far out Greek territory is with respect to some of these islands, which aren't even permanently inhabited in some cases.  If there is some island out there and nobody lives on it, is it really part of your territory?  Your own link even describes it as the Turks are recognizing 5 miles while the Greeks are claiming 10.

 

2.  In this case, the Turks are claiming the Russians violated their air space- not just entered Syrian air space close to Turkey.

 

Previously, even the Russians admitted to actually violating their air space, but claimed it was because of bad weather.

 

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/europe/2015/10/05/russia-bad-weather-caused-jet-violate-turkish-airspace/73394304/

 

(which NATO/the US rejected as a reasonable accuse.

 

So your making the excuse of the greek islands being an issue?  So lets say Russia invaded the u.s. virgin islands, would you make the same excuse. since they are allies with cuba? 

 

I find it funny you would justify someone invading someone's air space hence territory.  You do realize that a Hellenic pilot also died when one of these air violations did occur. right? so its ok to instigate. bravo way to be civilized.

 

I would rather trust putin than trust turkey.  At least they aren't animals.  I can see your pro Turkish.  sorry I have no respect for people who do this!

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/12/politics/turkey-navy-sailors-bags-over-heards/

 

im showing you facts on how these animals act. 

Apparently Turkey has claimed that it shot and killed the pilots as they parachuted down.

This could be a pretty big **** up.

im not surprised.  So by doing this, this shows ertogon's hand and intensions.  What hes been saying has no merit now.  Hes full of lies and hes pro isis.

 

https://www.rt.com/news/323373-ankara-defends-isis-medvedev/

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-training-camp-for-children-in-istanbul-2015-10

 

these are our so called nato allies??? wake up! Russia isn't the problem here!  its turkey!

[PeterMP]

im not surprised.  So by doing this, this shows ertogon's hand and intensions.  What hes been saying has no merit now.  Hes full of lies and hes pro isis.

 

https://www.rt.com/news/323373-ankara-defends-isis-medvedev/

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-training-camp-for-children-in-istanbul-2015-10

 

these are our so called nato allies??? wake up! Russia isn't the problem here!  its turkey!

 

Oh no, a couple of people in Turkey put bags over some US saliors heads.  That's unforgivable.

 

Wait.  At least they didn't attack an embassy.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/12/world/europe/12cnd-greece.html?_r=0

 

(Every country in the world has bad people in it, and in a lot of countries, there is anti-American resentment, including Greece and Turkey.)

 

Did you read the thread (or just allow an incorrect post to show your extreme anti-Turkey bias)  Turkey didn't kill them.

 

We have issues with Turkey, but we have issues with all of our allies in the Middle East and realistically we have the fewest issues with Turkey.

 

Of all of our allies in the Middle East, the one that needs to be railed 

 

But the fact of the matter is Russia is a problem too, and as has been documented by multiple people Russia isn't really fighting ISIS.  They are supporting Assad and if that means attacking moderate groups that we support, they are doing it.

 

And that's ignoring what they are doing in the Ukraine and have done in Georgia.

[Wildbunny]

I would think that with three dead and an unapologetic Turkey, Putin does indeed need to save face.

 

Giving weapons to the Kurds fighting ISIS in Syria would piss Turks more than anything... The Turks just don't want the Kurds to go into full separation mode.

[visionary]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/25/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-erdogan-idUSKBN0TE0QT20151125?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter

Russia and Turkey refuse to back down in row over jet downing
 

Russia sent an advanced missile system to Syria on Wednesday to protect its jets operating there and pledged its air force would keep flying missions near Turkish air space, sounding a defiant note after Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet.

 

Underscoring the message, Russian forces launched a heavy bombardment against insurgent-held areas in Latakia on Wednesday, near where the jet was downed, rebels and a monitoring group said.

 

The downing of the jet on Tuesday was one of the most serious publicly acknowledged clashes between a NATO member and Russia for half a century, and further complicated international efforts to battle Islamic State militants in Syria.

 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-fm-calls-russias-lavrov-to-express-sorrow.aspx?pageID=238&nID=91654&NewsCatID=352

Turkish FM calls Russia’s Lavrov 'to express sorrow'

 

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu called his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov on Nov. 25 "to express his sorrow" over the downing of a Russian jet by Turkey near the Syrian border.

 

The Turkish foreign minister expressed “his sincere condolences,” Lavrov told reporters at a press conference in Moscow. “But the Turkish minister tried to excuse the incident,” Lavrov added.

 

He also said Russia “is not going to wage a war against Turkey” and that Russia’s attitude toward the Turkish people remained unchanged.

 

“But we will seriously reassess all bilateral agreements,” he said. “As for specific measures, we’ve recommended our citizens not to travel to Turkey.”

 

https://twitter.com/joshrogin

John Kerry called Russian FM Lavrov and "offered his condolences for the loss of life in yesterday’s incident with Turkey."
12:58 PM

 

Russia reportedly hit a Turkish aid convoy going into Syria elsewhere along the border. (near Aleppo, not Latakia)

https://twitter.com/IHHen?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

IHH's civil defense teams are on the ground after Russian warplanes hit an aid truck in Azaz, Syria.
10:51 AM

[PeterMP]

Russia reportedly hit a Turkish aid convoy going into Syria elsewhere along the border. (near Aleppo, not Latakia)

https://twitter.com/IHHen?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

So what happens now?  Does Turkey start sending missions with SAMs.

[visionary]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/27/world/europe/russia-turkey-plane-downing.html?smid=tw-nytimesworld&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Russian-Turkish Tensions Heat Up Over Downed Warplane

 

The downing of a Russian warplane by Turkey threatened to lead to a wholesale breach in the countries’ relations on Thursday, with the Kremlin preparing to sever economic ties and Turkish officials saying they had no reason to apologize.

 

Prime Minister Dmitri A. Medvedev of Russia gave government officials two days to draw up a list of ways to curb economic links and investment projects. That included the possible shelving of a multibillion-dollar deal to build a gas pipeline through Turkey that President Vladimir V. Putin himself had first trumpeted as a welcome alternative route for Russian gas exports to Europe.

 

Mr. Putin and his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, stoked the confrontation by hurling insults at each other and demanding redress.

 

“We have still not heard any comprehensible apologies from the Turkish political leaders, or any offers to compensate for the damage caused, or promises to punish the criminals for their crime,” Mr. Putin said at the Kremlin. He reiterated Russia’s position that the warplane was brought down on Tuesday over Syria, not Turkey.

“Faced with the same violation today, Turkey would give the same response,” he said. “It’s the country that carried out the violation which should question itself and take measures to prevent it from happening again, not the country that was subjected to a violation.”

 

Later, Mr. Erdogan appeared to soften his remarks somewhat, telling France 24 television: “We might have been able to prevent this violation of our airspace differently.”

But the economic, geographic and historically competitive ties that bind the two faded empires are facing new strains. At the very least, the tension will hamper chances of resolving the bloody war in Syria.

 

The Turkish foreign minister, Mevlut Cavusoglu, said that while he had expressed regret over the episode in a phone call on Wednesday to his Russian counterpart, Sergey V. Lavrov, there would be no apology.

 

“We do not need to apologize on an occasion that we are right,” Mr. Cavusoglu said.

Even before any formal plans for economic sanctions were drawn up, Russia was already retaliating. Moscow has a long history of suddenly discovering faults with the goods and services of other nations when diplomatic relations sour.

 

Hundreds of trucks bearing Turkish fruits and vegetables and other products were stacking up at the Georgian border with Russia, Russian news media reported, as inspections slowed to a crawl and Russian officials suggested there might be a terrorist threat from the goods.

Russia was the biggest source of Turkish imports in 2014, some $25 billion or 10 percent of the total, according to an analysis by Renaissance Capital, much of it most likely natural gas. Turkey exported $6 billion worth of goods to Russia in 2014, 4 percent of all exports, and nearly 4.5 million Russians visited last year, according to the analysis.

 

The economies of both countries are troubled, and Russia needs all the customers it can find for its gas, given the plunge in energy prices in the last year. Plans to build exports to China are years away.

 

Russia does not always use a calculator in making sanctions decisions. In 2014, when the West imposed economic sanctions for the Russian annexation of Crimea and support for the separatist movement in Ukraine, the Kremlin responded by banning a wide range of food from the West. That caused a surge in prices for Russian consumers.

 

At the time, the Russian news media hailed the surge in imports of Turkish fruits and vegetables as superior to those from Europe.

 

 

https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister

Russia is systematically targeting opposition-controlled border points with Turkey, including the Bab al-Hawa & Bab al-Salameh crossings.
7:47 AM

In addition to bombing border crossing posts with Turkey, Russia seems to be aiding (and possibly encouraging) Kurdish attacks on other rebels in Northern Aleppo with airstrikes. (in areas that were taken away from ISIS by those and other rebel groups but are still close to ISIS lines)

 

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/669924409172434944 from the Russian Embassy in the UK

Commemorating WW1 centenary: spectacular Russian poster art from 1915

12:03 PM

[DogofWar1]

Oh sweet fancy jumpin' bicycling Moses.

 

The middle east was complicated enough without Russia suddenly supporting the Kurds in anti-Turkish raids.

 

I should have gone into physics instead of political science.  Quantum physics would be easier to decipher than this nonsense.

[No Excuses]

Really Erdogan can go **** himself. He arrested one of Turkey's most prominent journalists who was doing a story on Turkish intelligence trucks loaded with weapons headed for Syria (gee I wonder these weapons are arming who, could it be groups fighting against Kurds??). 

 

Erdogan simply doesn't care anymore. Arresting journalists, shutting down twitter, banning reddit. He's a piece of crap.

 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/prosecutor-demands-arrests-of-two-journalists-for-intelligence-truck-story.aspx?pageID=238&nID=91722&NewsCatID=339

 

Cumhuriyet Editor-in-Chief Can Dündar and the daily’s Ankara Bureau Chief Erdem Gül were arrested Nov. 26 due to a story about Turkish intelligence trucks bound for Syria in early 2014.

“We are accused of ‘spying.’ The president said [our action is] ‘treason.’ We are not traitors, spy, or heroes; we are journalists. What we have done here was a journalistic activity,” Dündar said before testifying to prosecutors Nov. 26. 

“Of course this prosecution will help enlighten how these incidents took place, rather than how we covered this story.”

Dündar and Gül were arrested on charges of espionage and being a member of an armed terrorist organization based on reports in  Cumhuriyet regarding Syrian-bound trucks sent by the National Intelligence Agency (MİT).

The armed organization mentioned by the prosecutors refers to Fethullahist Terrorist Organization (FETÖ), a term used by prosecutors to define the followers of Fethullah Gülen, a U.S.-based Islamic scholar.

 

[tshile]

Sounds like what a lot of countries do.

 

Our own government trying to pass bills so they can shut down whatever internet services they want due to "national security" interests.

 

Our own government also has gone after journalists for releasing classified information, calling them traitors.

 

In fact... you don't really want to to be a whistle blower right now in the USA...

 

It's what government does.

[No Excuses]

It's what government does.

 

Erdogan has no parallel in the US government. Some of our activities might mimic him. But our government doesn't arrest 15 year old kids because they insult Obama (Erdogan did that). Nor do they shut down online social media sites for "reasons".

 

There has been a massive crackdown by Erdogan's regime on free speech in Turkey. It's really quite disturbing if you look closely at it because Turkey is "supposed" to be a secular country and a stabilizing force in that region.

[tshile]

Erdogan has no parallel in the US government. Some of our activities might mimic him. But our government doesn't arrest 15 year old kids because they insult Obama (Erdogan did that). Nor do they shut down online social media sites for "reasons".

 

There has been a massive crackdown by Erdogan's regime on free speech in Turkey. It's really quite disturbing if you look closely at it because Turkey is "supposed" to be a secular country and a stabilizing force in that region.

 

Right, I get that it's not equal. I'm just pointing out that our own government has its own flavor of doing these things too.

 

I don't know why we pretend Turkey is this secular country or a stabilizing force. They've had problems for a while now. Their people are not secular.

 

At best they're just not as bad as the rest of the middle east.

[visionary]

Erdogan has no parallel in the US government. Some of our activities might mimic him. But our government doesn't arrest 15 year old kids because they insult Obama (Erdogan did that). Nor do they shut down online social media sites for "reasons".

 

There has been a massive crackdown by Erdogan's regime on free speech in Turkey. It's really quite disturbing if you look closely at it because Turkey is "supposed" to be a secular country and a stabilizing force in that region.

Well, cracking down on free speech is about consolidating power and controlling the national narrative and being very thin skinned about hearing someone criticize you.  This is why we see similar treatment and behavior in Russia, Egypt, and Turkey, despite the fact that vastly different parties control each place.  

[visionary]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-26/turkey-without-russian-tourists-strikes-economy-where-it-s-weak

Turkey Without Russian Tourists Strikes Economy Where It's Weak

 

Russia’s effective ban on tourist travel to Turkey in retaliation for the downing of one of its jets by Turkish F-16s this week will reverberate far beyond a Kremlin-themed hotel on the Antalya coast. These four charts show how it threatens Turkey’s economy.
 

Turkey is the most popular foreign destination for Russians, with 3.3 million making the trip in the first nine months of this year. They make up more than 10 percent of the tourists in Turkey, the second-highest number after Germany.

 

Selling tours to Turkey would be a "blatant violation" of Russian laws, according to the Federal Tourism Agency, and while there are no plans to evacuate as many as 11,000 Russian tourists already in the country, about 6,000 who’ve booked tours for coming weeks will need to change their plans.

 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-suspends-syria-flights-after-crisis-with-russia.aspx?pageID=238&nID=91733&NewsCatID=352

Turkey suspends Syria flights after crisis with Russia

 

The Turkish army has suspended flights over Syria as part of an ongoing joint military campaign with the United States against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) after it shot down a Russian jetfighter, sparking an unprecedented crisis between Ankara and Moscow.

 

The decision was taken following the eruption of the crisis with Russia in which a Turkish F-16 downed a Russian warplane early Nov. 24 after it allegedly violated Turkish airspace, according to diplomatic sources. 

 

Sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, stressed that the suspension of the Turkish jetfighters’ participation in the U.S.-led military operations against ISIL was in fact a mutual decision taken with Russia, which also halted its aerial campaigns near the Turkish border. Both parties will continue to be as careful as possible in a bid to avoid a repetition of such incidents until they re-establish dialogue channels to reduce the tension.

 

Turkish and Russian military officials held initial talks on the incident on Nov. 25 as the office of the Chief of General Staff invited defense and military attachés from the Russian Embassy to military headquarters to inform them about how the incident took place. However, there is still a need for high-level political meetings to let the two parties reconcile and reduce the tension.

 

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu proposed to his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, a meeting on Dec. 3 or 4 in Belgrade on the sidelines of an international conference. However, the Russian side has not yet confirmed that the meeting will take place.

Hmmm.  Not sure this will change much.  Turkey wasn't doing very much in the air against ISIS anyway, and I have a hard time believing Russia will stop bombing along the border. 

 

One of the reasons Turkey is so on edge with Russia right now:

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/world/regime-russian-attacks-displacing-syrian-turkmen-group/481841

[Stadium-Armory]

I would think that with three dead and an unapologetic Turkey, Putin does indeed need to save face.

 

Lots of angry words and perhaps some token actions but nothing serious is my guess. Two weeks from now, this will fade from the headlines and Putin will walk away from anything substantial.

[DogofWar1]

At best they're just not as bad as the rest of the middle east.

 

Bingo, and that's superior to other countries there.

 

It's not ideal, but a ME full of Turkeys is stable.  ME full of, what it's got now, very unstable, unless of course you have dictators keeping things in line.

 

 

With regards to the travel ban, I prefer the travel ban over escalation of hostilities.  Such escalation could still happen I suppose, but the economic proxy war can be walked back much more easily once tempers cool than bombings can.

[visionary]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/28/us-mideast-crisis-turkey-russia-erdogan-idUSKBN0TG18K20151128?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter

Turkey's Erdogan warns Russia not to 'play with fire'

 

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan warned Russia on Friday not to "play with fire", citing reports Turkish businessmen had been detained in Russia, while Moscow said it would suspend visa-free travel with Turkey.

 

Relations between the former Cold War antagonists are at their lowest in recent memory after Turkey shot down a Russian jet near the Syrian border on Tuesday. Russia has threatened economic retaliation, a response Erdogan has dismissed as emotional and indecorous.

 

The incident has proved a distraction for the West, which is looking to build support for the U.S.-led fight against Islamic State in Syria. The nearly five-year-old Syrian civil war has been complicated by Russian air strikes in defense of President Bashar al-Assad.

 

Turkey, which has long sought Assad's ouster, has extensive trade ties with Moscow, which could come under strain. Erdogan condemned reports that some Turkish businessmen had been detained for visa irregularities while attending a trade fair in Russia.

 

"It is playing with fire to go as far as mistreating our citizens who have gone to Russia," Erdogan told supporters during a speech in Bayburt, in northeast Turkey. "We really attach a lot of importance to our relations with Russia ... We don't want these relations to suffer harm in any way."

 

He said he may speak with Russian President Vladimir Putin at a climate summit in Paris next week. Putin has so far refused to contact Erdogan because Ankara does not want to apologize for the downing of the jet, a Putin aide said.

 

Erdogan has said Turkey deserves the apology because its air space was violated.

 

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Friday Moscow would suspend its visa-free regime with Turkey as of Jan. 1, which could affect Turkey's tourism industry.

 

 

Things do not seem to be calming down very much so far. 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/jets-believed-russian-hit-syrian-town-near-turkish-154108411.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw

Jets believed to be Russian hit Syrian town near Turkish border: monitor

 

Warplanes believed to be Russian carried out several air strikes on a Syrian town near the Turkish border on Friday, a monitoring group said, one of several reported close to the boundary this week.

 

The bombardments came days after Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet it said had entered its air space, raising tensions between the two countries which back opposing sides in Syria's civil war.

 

Three air strikes hit the town of Azaz, about 5 km (3 miles) from the Turkish border in northern Aleppo province, killing an estimated five people including a child, the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.

 

On Thursday residents said Russian warplanes had bombed the rebel-held Syrian town of Saraqeb along the Turkish border in Idlib province. The day before, jets also believed to be Russian hit a truck depot near the Bab al-Salam border crossing.

 

Russia has also heavily bombarded insurgent positions in western Syria near where its warplane was shot down, including Turkmen rebels who are supported by Ankara.

Despite that report that Russia might halt bombing along the border to help calm things down, they seem to have continued their strikes in different places along the border...and they added this threat or warning:

 

 

https://twitter.com/mfa_russia

Lavrov: Russia is ready to coordinate practical steps to block the Turkish-Syrian border in cooperation w/Damascus http://tass.ru/en/politics/840018…
12:31 PM

[MrSilverMaC]

I wonder how mad Russia is going to be when a few of their planes end up spread across the desert after a law rocket takes them out of the sky on one of these bombing missions against Turkish backed rebels near the Turkish border.

Putin is basically sticking his chin out asking for someone's best shot.

[visionary]

And now Turkey is increasing their military presence along the border.

https://mobile.twitter.com/abdbozkurt/status/670538945403465728

https://t.co/YWzFomYM6T

[visionary]

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak

Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered sanctions against Turkey including a ban on some goods
12:54 PM

 

https://twitter.com/zaidbenjamin

Russian Sanctions on Turkey: Employers in Russia will be prohibited from hiring Turkish nationals for work starting January 1, 2016.
1:07 PM

 

Russian Sanctions on Turkey: A number of Turkish organizations operating in Russia will also be restricted.
1:08 PM

 

Russian Sanctions on Turkey: The import of certain products originating from Turkey will be temporarily banned or restricted.
1:09 PM

 

Russian Sanctions on Turkey: The visa-free regime for Turkish nationals traveling to Russia will be suspended starting from 2016.
1:12 PM

 

Tourism accounted for $21 billion of income for Turkey in the nine months to September. About $4 billion came from Russians.
1:29 PM

[Predicto]

Erdogan is a piece of crap.   A decade ago, Turkey had a good chance to evolve into the first true Muslim democracy with modern Western values and institutions.  It was not perfect, especially in the overwhelming influence of the army, but at least it was heading the right way.   He has set them back decades.

 

And if anything, Putin is even worse.   He is the most cynical, dishonest world leader we have these days.  

[Larry]

And if anything, Putin is even worse.   He is the most cynical, dishonest world leader we have these days.

Granted, I'm speaking from ignorance, but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.

Can one really say, with authority, that Putin is more dishonest than, say, every single politician in Africa?

 

Now, Putin's power to cause evil is no doubt unmatched. 

[Predicto]

Granted, I'm speaking from ignorance, but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.

Can one really say, with authority, that Putin is more dishonest than, say, every single politician in Africa?

 

Now, Putin's power to cause evil is no doubt unmatched. 

 

 

Truth.  

 

let me clarify that I was using the term "world leader" to mean someone leading a country with some power, with the ability to affect things beyond his or her own country.   There are maybe 20-25 of those.   Putin is one.  Robert Mugabe isn't.