The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

[Larry]

Oh, I think it's obvious that we need to increase immigration. We've got jobs sitting here for them. 

 

I also think it's obvious they need to be legal immigrants. For one thing, to make it harder for criminal employers and others to abuse them. 

 

I also recognize that coming out and saying we need vast numbers of legal immigrants?  Especially if they're from Mexico?  It's gonna be hard to sell. Way too easy to demonize. 

 

Why I've said that my biggest disappointment with the Dems was not giving at least a path to citizenship to the Dreamers. They're already here. They became adults in this country. Make (at least some of them) legal. 

 

Among other reasons, it would have been a great way to use the bully pulpit to dictate how the idea will be debated. 

[PeterMP]

14 hours ago, Larry said:

Oh, I think it's obvious that we need to increase immigration. We've got jobs sitting here for them. 

 

I also think it's obvious they need to be legal immigrants. For one thing, to make it harder for criminal employers and others to abuse them. 

 

I also recognize that coming out and saying we need vast numbers of legal immigrants?  Especially if they're from Mexico?  It's gonna be hard to sell. Way too easy to demonize. 

 

Why I've said that my biggest disappointment with the Dems was not giving at least a path to citizenship to the Dreamers. They're already here. They became adults in this country. Make (at least some of them) legal. 

 

Among other reasons, it would have been a great way to use the bully pulpit to dictate how the idea will be debated. 

 

First, we don't want to become S. Korea or Japan.  And I'm certainly for giving the Obama generation of Dreamers citizenship.  And that's where I think if you actually enforced the laws made the lack of workers here legally clear to everybody, that might be something easier to get passed.  By not enforcing the laws allowing pretty large numbers of people come in and work illegally they are helping cover up the problem.

 

But again, the job thing is almost certainly temporary, especially when you consider what AI and automation are supposed to do to the job market over the next 10+ years.  And while we might have jobs, we don't have housing for people that they can afford working those jobs.   And the housing issue seems to be a much stickier issue.  If we want to do something to raise median income to match the increase costs of housing, then I think a large amount of immigration might make sense.  But otherwise, it isn't something that I think makes a lot of sense.

[China]

US supreme court allows border patrol to cut razor wire installed by Texas

 

A divided US supreme court on Monday allowed border patrol agents to cut controversial razor wire that Texas installed on the US-Mexico border, while a lawsuit over the wire continues.

 

The concertina wire along roughly 30 miles (48km) of the Rio Grande near the border city of Eagle Pass is part of Greg Abbott’s broader fight with the Biden administration over immigration enforcement.

 

It has also become a symbol of America’s broader political fight over the border with many Republicans hailing it as tough, but necessary policy and many Democrats saying it’s inhumane and cruel.

 

But the supreme court justices, by a 5-4 vote, have now granted an emergency appeal from the Biden administration.

 

The rightwing Republican Texas governor has also authorized installing floating barriers in the Rio Grande near Eagle Pass and allowed troopers to arrest and jail thousands of migrants on trespassing charges. The Biden administration is also challenging those actions in federal court.

 

A federal appeals court last month forced federal agents to stop cutting the concertina wire. A number of migrants have crossed at Eagle Pass in recent months.

 

In court papers, the administration said the wire impedes border patrol agents from reaching migrants as they cross the river and that, in any case, federal immigration law trumps Texas’ own efforts to stem the flow of migrants into the country.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

 

[China]

Abbott doubles down on border ‘invasion’ declaration after Supreme Court blow

 

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) on Wednesday accused the federal government of breaking the compact with the states following a Supreme Court ruling on Monday that cleared the way for the Border Patrol to remove razor wire installed by Texas along the U.S.-Mexico border.

 

In a statement, Abbott said, “President Biden has refused to enforce [immigration] laws and has even violated them.”

 

It’s the latest escalation in a legal and political standoff between Texas and the federal government, though Abbott stopped short of announcing any specific measures. 

 

Though the Supreme Court this week allowed federal officials — namely, the Border Patrol — to remove razor wire installed by Texas, that order did not affect other flashpoints in the uneasy relationship between feds and state agents.

 

Earlier this month, Texas officials took over a public park on the shores of the Rio Grande in Eagle Pass, using Texas National Guard troops to block the Border Patrol from accessing the park.

 

Texas Democratic Rep. Joaquin Castro was the first to call for a federalization of the Texas National Guard, which as a military unit is ultimately under the command of President Biden as commander-in-chief.

 

Rep. Greg Casar (D-Texas) followed suit Wednesday in the wake of Abbott’s statement.

 

“I agree with Congressman Castro: if Abbott is defying yesterday’s Supreme Court ruling, President Biden needs to establish sole federal control of the Texas National Guard,” said Casar.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

Greg Abbott Stung by New Court Order Over Texas Border

 

Texas Governor Greg Abbott's push to stay proceedings in a case regarding the state's buoys in its river border with Mexico has been denied by a district court.

 

Amid rising concerns about immigration and border security, the state installed a 1,000-foot barrier in the Rio Grande in July to deter migrants.

 

In December 2023, the United States District Court of the Western District of Texas, Austin Division, considered Abbott's motion to dismiss complaints issued in July 2023. That was when the Department of Justice (DoJ) filed a lawsuit arguing that establishing the barrier in U.S. navigable water requires the approval of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which Abbott did not obtain before the buoys were placed in the water.

 

Judge David Alan Ezra granted Abbott's motion that the Rivers and Harbors Act authorizes actions only against persons and corporations, "not against sovereign States like the Defendant State of Texas and its officials." Abbott had also stated in the motion that the section of the Rio Grande where the buoys are placed is not navigable and it does not represent an obstruction. Newsweek contacted representatives for Abbott by email on Friday to comment on this story.

 

Meanwhile, on December 1, the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals, agreed with the Biden administration that the barrier over the Rio Grande is dangerous.

 

Abbott sought an immediate en banc hearing, meaning all court judges are to be convened to rehear the case.

 

He has now argued that proceeding to a trial in the United States District Court of the Western District of Texas would be inefficient because, in its rehearing, a 5th Circuit Judge could agree with 5th Circuit Judge Don Willett. He wrote a dissenting opinion in the original judgment that the river not used for commerce.

 

However, Ezra wrote in a filing that the case need not be delayed pending an appeal and that Texas did not need more time for discovery. The judge added: "A trial is needed to explore the factual issues and merits of the case."

 

Ezra wrote that Abbott should work to the same deadlines as the DoJ, saying: "If the United States is prepared to carry its burden of production in the allotted time, Texas should be even less prejudiced by the expedited trial timeline. Texas need only defend itself against the experts and evidence the United States is able to prepare in the given time."

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

Biden endorses emerging deal to give US new power to clamp down on border crossings

 

Senate negotiators have agreed to empower the US to significantly restrict illegal migrant crossings at the southern border, according to sources familiar with the matter, a move aimed at ending the migrant surge that has overrun federal authorities over the past several months.

 

President Joe Biden has vowed to use the authority offered by the deal, embracing measures that are far more draconian than he’s previously considered in an area many voters perceive him as weaker than former President Donald Trump.

 

The Senate deal, which is expected to be unveiled as soon as next week, would also speed up the asylum process to consider cases within six months – compared with the current system, under which it could take up to 10 years for asylum seekers.

 

The details provide a new window into high-profile negotiations that have been going on for months – as Senate leaders hold out hope they can attach the deal to aid to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan as domestic and international crises loom. The plan would also put pressure on Republicans to decide whether to greenlight these new authorities or reject the plan as Trump has urged the GOP to defeat anything short of what he calls a “perfect” bill.

 

Biden, in a rare statement on ongoing congressional negotiations, said the deal that Senate negotiators have worked toward is both tough and fair.

 

“What’s been negotiated would – if passed into law – be the toughest and fairest set of reforms to secure the border we’ve ever had in our country,” he said in the statement Friday. “It would give me, as President, a new emergency authority to shut down the border when it becomes overwhelmed. And if given that authority, I would use it the day I sign the bill into law.”

 

Under the soon-to-be-released package, the Department of Homeland Security would be granted new emergency authority to shut down the border if daily average migrant encounters reach 4,000 over a one-week span. If migrant crossings increase above 5,000 on average per day on a given week, DHS would be required to close the border to migrants crossing illegally not entering at ports of entry. Certain migrants would be allowed to stay if they prove to be fleeing torture or persecution in their countries.

 

Moreover, if crossings exceed 8,500 in a single day, DHS would be required to close the border to migrants illegally crossing the border. Under the proposal, any migrant who tries to cross the border twice while it is closed would be banned from entering the US for one year.

 

The goal of the trio of negotiators – GOP Sen. James Lankford of Oklahoma, Independent Sen. Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona and Democratic Sen. Chris Murphy of Connecticut – is to prevent surges that overwhelm federal authorities. The Biden administration and Senate leaders have been heavily involved in the talks, and more details of the deal are expected to be released in the coming days.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Larry]

9 hours ago, China said:

President Joe Biden has vowed to use the authority offered by the deal, embracing measures that are far more draconian than he’s previously considered in an area many voters perceive him as weaker than former President Donald Trump.

 

The Senate deal, which is expected to be unveiled as soon as next week, would also speed up the asylum process to consider cases within six months – compared with the current system, under which it could take up to 10 years for asylum seekers.

 

Not really sure I approve of giving the office of the President what I'm imagining are DeSantis-like powers. I'd rather see a huge increase in prosecution of illegal employers. 

 

Love the idea of speeding up the asylum process. At least in my mind, separate the legitimate asylum seekers from the "I want higher pay", and treat each group accordingly. 

[hail2skins]

https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/a-story-about-hugh-hewitt-immigration?r=1emko

[China]

'Inflection point': Gov. Ron DeSantis sends Florida National, State Guard to Texas

 

Gov. Ron DeSantis is sending Florida National Guard and State Guard members to Texas to assist with placing razor wire along the southern border, DeSantis announced Thursday.

The Supreme Court ruled last week that the federal government had the power to remove razor wire and other barriers the Texas government erected at the border, but Texas National Guard continued placing the wire last week.

 

Florida will send up to 1,000 National Guard members and State Guard volunteers to assist Texas "relatively shortly."

 

“The goal is to help Texas fortify this border, help them strengthen the barricades, help them add barriers, help them add the wire that they need to so that we can stop this invasion once and for all,” DeSantis said from Jacksonville’s Cecil Airport Thursday morning. “And the states have to band together.”

 

DeSantis repeated the inflammatory language Republicans have used to describe the tens of thousands of asylum-seekers and other migrants arriving at the U.S.-Mexico border. Those seeking asylum typically turn themselves in to Border Patrol agents between ports of entry. Other migrants, including many from Mexico, try to sneak in and evade border agents.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Larry]

2 hours ago, China said:

“The goal is to help Texas fortify this border, help them strengthen the barricades, help them add barriers, help them add the wire that they need to so that we can stop this invasion once and for all,” DeSantis said from Jacksonville’s Cecil Airport Thursday morning. “And the states have to band together.”

 

". . . try to repair the damage that I've done to my wannabe Hitler image, for the past 4-5 months."

[Cooked Crack]

 

[China]

Texas Stripped of Powers in Border Security Bill

 

Conservatives have attacked a provision of the new border security bill that would only allow legal challenges to be made in Washington D.C.

 

The bill would strip the power of Texas and other states to challenge some of the its provisions in their local federal court.

 

Conservative commentators were quick to denounce the provision, contained on page 221 of the bill. Bill Shipley, who was a federal prosecutor for over 20 years, decried the its court provisions on X, formerly Twitter, on Sunday.

 

"This would prevent plaintiffs - like the State of Texas - from filing suit in Texas federal courts. This is corrupt," he wrote.

 

After outlining the provisions under which immigrants can seek judicial review of a deportation order, the bill states:

 

"The United States District Court for the District of Columbia shall have sole and original jurisdiction to hear challenges, whether constitutional or otherwise, to the validity of this section or any written policy directive, written policy guideline, written procedure, or the implementation thereof."

 

The right of judicial review for illegal immigrants about to be deported has proved controversial.

 

In 2022, a Louisiana federal judge blocked the Biden administration from ending Title 42, a pandemic-related border restriction that allows for the immediate expulsion of asylum-seekers and other migrants.

 

Reacting to the latest provisions in the border security bill, conservative writer and self-style "deportation scientist" Mike Howell wrote on X that the bill "puts far left DC district court in charge."

 

Click on the link for the full article

[philibusters]

On 2/2/2024 at 10:20 PM, Cooked Crack said:

 

 

 

If he is getting immigrants on the bus with false promises, then I see that as problematic.  Otherwise, I don't  see it as problematic.  Texas does take on a disproportionate burden of the cost of illegal immigration.   It makes sense for them to want to help the immigrants reach destinations in other states.  And presumably some of the immigrants want to go to these major cities.  The problem is if he is convincing a lot of them to go on false promises like that there will be jobs waiting their for them. 

[PleaseBlitz]

Sounds like there may be some grift happening if they are paying $1,250 per person for a bus ride. 

 

[Renegade7]

I don't understand what the lower courts job is anymore because they've become so politicized.

 

That provision is a response to not having this constant flux on what congress agreed on in the courts.

 

I can see where that can be abused, but if this really is a crisis, holding up solutions in court isn't a solution.

[TradeTheBeal!]

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

I'm debating Buzzette's MAGA uncle right now and want thoughts before I send this response. I posted asking if there was anyone willing to actually defend the current GOP immigration **** and he rogered up. Fun fact, he is Catholic married to a Jewish women with practicing-jewish children.

 

Quote

It has been more than just one Governor that has complained they can't shoot illegal immigrants. I can provide some links if you would like.
I do support legal immigration. Thats why I support the current bill that is expected to change asylum decision times from the current 6-7 years to a goal of 6 months to one year. No one is disputing that a large number of immigrants either abuse the asylum process or don't know it. This bipartisan bill helps address that.  *Side note; why did you put "bipartisan" in quotes?
There are a number of things that can cause migrant surges. Imagine what horrors you would have to be facing to make you pick up YOUR family including small children, venture on foot for a thousand miles knowing you face a high risk being raped and/or murdered, to be greeted with barb wire hidden under water, and that is STILL a better option than where you left. The United States has a dark history of turning away people running from certain death. In the late 1930s/early 40s, we could have taken in an untold number of Jews. But we instead turned many away. You know how that turned out. I heard my grandfather telling me the stories of what those people then experienced. And what several years in a POW camp is like when it is run by people that are willing to treat other humans that way. We made that mistake once, lets not repeat it.
There are certainly immigration changes that need to be made. If there weren't, then why has the GOP been screaming for these same changes for years? Most of this is stuff in this bill, they have been calling for. This was supposed to be in negotiation for aid to Ukraine/Israel/Taiwan security. But if the GOP is going to make me choose between BULLETS and BLANKETS, I choose blankets 100 times out of 100 and I don't apologize for that. Maybe I am jaded. I've done humanitarian relief work all around the globe. I have literally seen the look on a child's face when they got their first drink of water in four days. And I've seen the result when they don't.
These are the small town, christian values I was brought up with. These right-wing politicans don't even live up to the values they try to preach to us. To those fake Christians who want to sit in judgement of ME for wanting to help other humans fleeing unimaginable horrors, I respond with Leviticus 19:34.

Catholic school was fun.

 

[Larry]

Might want to keep your argument more positive, and leave off the attacks on the hypocrites. 

 

About as close as I'd get to that is to point out that the stated reason for blocking this bill isn't because its a bad bill. It's because it's a good bill that they think the Democrats will get credit for.  They are literally stating that they are voting against something good because they believe it will help them politically. 

[Fergasun]

If you are worred about illegal immigration in 2024, where have you been all these years?   

 

I would argue that nothing hurts immigration/border system than shooting down immigration bills.  And it takes 6 to 8 years for there to be politcal capital for immigration bills.  The current situation is just status quo which means: we welcome immigrants in a disorderly fashion to probably get under the table jobs. 99% of them just work here, build a life have a family. The 1% bad actors... well, we hope they don't harm you. If anyone thinks we really will have the "largest deportation program ever" theres delusion or racism or a venn diagram overlapping of the two.  

 

This bill is imperfect, but it moves immigration in the right direction (any bill would).  Lankford should get credit for compromising.  As it is this bill skews to the right.  So, GOP should look to the opponents of the bill -- immigrant advocates on the left are up in arms over it.  

 

You either weild political power that you have, or you don't.  For years new Congressmen and Congresswomen and Senators -- from both sides -- have gotten there by saying "Congress is broken, nothing gets done" and then they get there and a few people actually work hard on bills like border security and everyone else acts like "HOW DARE YOU GET SOMETHING DONE!!  WHAT YOU HAVE DONE IS HORRIBLE!! " It's absurd and there's no way to run our country like this.  

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

 

[Captain Wiggles]

5 hours ago, Larry said:

About as close as I'd get to that is to point out that the stated reason for blocking this bill isn't because its a bad bill. It's because it's a good bill that they think the Democrats will get credit for.  They are literally stating that they are voting against something good because they believe it will help them politically. 

 

You know better than I that's exactly what Republicans have been doing for the past century. 

 

One of the stooges they ran against FDR promised to replace the New Deal with his own version. They did the exact same **** with the ACA. Paul Ryan's plan was basically the same but instead of getting a subsidy up front folks would get it come tax time. 

 

This is all Newt Gingrich zero sum politics as usual. That mother****er said recently this immigration deal was bad because the Republicans held all the cards and would be fools not to get more concessions. 

[China]

House Republicans Impeach Mayorkas for Border Policies

 

The United States House of Representatives voted narrowly on Tuesday to impeach Alejandro N. Mayorkas, the homeland security secretary, in a precedent-shattering vote that charged him with willfully refusing to enforce border laws and breaching the public trust.

 

In a 214 to 213 vote, Republicans barreled past the solid opposition of Democrats and reservations in their own ranks to make Mr. Mayorkas the first sitting cabinet secretary in U.S. history to be impeached.

 

It amounted to a partisan indictment of President Biden’s immigration policies by the G.O.P., which is seeking to use a surge in migration across the United States border with Mexico during his tenure as a political weapon against him and Democrats in this year’s elections.

 

The vote came a week after the House rejected the charges against Mr. Mayorkas when Republicans, who control the House by a razor-thin margin, tried and failed to muster a majority to approve them.

 

Here’s what else to know:

The charges against Mr. Mayorkas are expected to be rejected in the Democratic-led Senate, where conviction would require a two-thirds majority and even some Republicans have called the effort dead on arrival. It was not immediately clear whether senators would hold a trial to consider the articles, or vote to dismiss them.

 

Click on the link for more

[Captain Wiggles]

So how is this better than a bipartisan immigration bill exactly? 🤔

[Larry]

1 hour ago, Captain Wiggles said:

So how is this better than a bipartisan immigration bill exactly? 🤔

 

1)  It's not bipartisan. (To the GOP, that makes it better.)

 

2)  It's an excuse to abuse Congress' powers, to generate campaign commercials. (For people who are terrified of immigrants taking away their power.)