The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

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When it installed a chain of giant bright orange buoys on the Rio Grande earlier this summer, Texas hoped that its new “floating border wall” would slow the number of migrants using this shallow point of the river to wade into the U.S. 

 

Instead, asylum seekers have simply been skirting the 1,000-foot barrier.  

 

This stretch of the river, abutting Eagle Pass, Texas, has for the past few years been one of the most popular crossing spots for migrant families because Piedras Negras, the Mexican city across the border, is relatively safe. The water is also shallow enough to avoid the river’s most deadly currents. Blocking it off hasn’t deterred migrants, but it has redirected them to more dangerous points on the river.  

 

“The proof is right there, the floating barrier is useless,” said Norberto Muñoz, an impoverished Mexican pensioner who spends his days on the Mexican banks of the river fishing and collecting the few possessions migrants leave behind before crossing.

 

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[China]

NYC shelters set to dump thousands of migrants to discourage new arrivals

 

The migrant crisis is getting so hard for New York City to handle that Mayor Eric Adams sees a policy that could send thousands of people into the streets, many with nowhere to sleep and nowhere to work, as his next best move.

 

It’s the latest in a series of increasingly desperate attempts by the Democratic mayor to stem the influx of asylum-seekers — a situation some in City Hall think has been fueled in part by a decades-old mandate for the city to provide shelter to anyone in need and for as long as they need it.

 

With more than 60,000 migrants in the city’s care, Adams has decided to stop sheltering single adults after two months, and thousands will start being evicted this Saturday.

 

The decision was made, in part, out of concerns that New York’s shelter guarantee was becoming a magnet for migrants, according to two people familiar with City Hall’s thinking.

 

“The sense is that people didn’t fully understand just how accommodating New York City was to migrants until now, from a lot of these areas, and now it’s a big reason that people are coming here,” said one of the people, who was granted anonymity to speak candidly. “But if the understanding is you’re not guaranteed a place to stay, that affects the flow.”

 

New York Gov. Kathy Hochul — who has been at odds with the mayor over how to respond to the situation — is also echoing that concern.

 

Click on the link for the full article

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[China]

Texas private company paid $75 million in 1 year to bus migrants out of state, report shows

 

Texas paid a private company $75.5 million in taxpayer funds over the span of a year to transport migrants to sanctuary cities across the U.S.

 

Transaction data provided by the Texas Department of Emergency Management shows the state paid Wynne Transportation $75,561,032.72 from Aug. 19, 2022, through Aug. 23, 2023, to bus migrants out of state.

 

13 Investigates asked the department for more details on the spending, but our questions were referred to Gov. Greg Abbott's office.

 

In a statement Wednesday morning Abbott's spokesperson, Andrew Mahaleris, said, "Governor Abbott launched the border bus mission in April 2022 to provide support to our overrun and overwhelmed border communities as the Biden Administration dumps thousands of migrants in their towns. Texas has since bused over 54,000 migrants to self-declared sanctuary cities, providing much-needed relief. 

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

By my math, that's a cost of nearly $1400 per migrant.  That's expensive bus fare.  Seems like Abbott is reckless with taxpayer money.

 

 

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Clown ****

 

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[China]

Texas Latino Democrat slams GOP for state bill to detain, remove people suspected of illegal immigration status

 

The Texas House approved a bill that would allow local and state peace officers to detain and remove to Mexico people who they think are here illegally, dismissing pleas from a Latino lawmaker who scolded, "Y'all don't live in our f---ing skin."

 

The bill's passage came early Thursday morning after Republicans truncated debate on the legislation, employing a rarely used procedure to cut off amendments Democrats could propose beyond those that were on the House speaker's desk.

 

After Democrats failed to undo that restriction, Rep. Armando Walle, D-Houston, lit into Republican members. Several versions of the passionate, expletive-laced video posted on social media show Walle chastising Republicans on the bill and for their refusal to allow for a longer "civil" debate that would "let us blow some steam."

 

Rep. Cody Harris, R-Palestine, whom Walle addressed as his friend, sponsored the motion to cut off debate.

 

"You're my friend, man, I love you, but this f---ing hurts. The s--- that happens on this godd---ed floor hurts. I can't go hang out with my," Walle said, swallowing the end of the sentence as he became emotional. "I can't hang out with my brother, my cousin, OK. I can't take them anywhere, bro? I can't go to a boda (wedding), I can't go to a baptism, because my community is being attacked?"

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Larry]

27 minutes ago, China said:

The Texas House approved a bill that would allow local and state peace officers to detain and remove to Mexico people who they think are here illegally, dismissing pleas from a Latino lawmaker who scolded, "Y'all don't live in our f---ing skin."

 

I hope this paraphrase of the bill is inaccurate. In several ways. 

 

First is the notion of local law enforcement trafficing people across an international border. 

 

Another is the phrase "who they think are here illegally". 

 

Also looking forward to a couple of Podunk deputies trying to pass through customs, with a prisoner. 

 

And then trying to pass through Mexican customs. 

[China]

Texas Gov. to sign 'harmful and unconstitutional' anti-migrant bills

 

Republican Texas Gov. Greg Abbott continued his anti-migrant crusade on Monday with plans for a Brownsville signing ceremony for a pair of state bills that legal experts and rights groups say are dangerous and violate the U.S. Constitution.

 

Senate Bill 3 allocates $1,540,000,000 for border security, including constructing contested new barriers to limit undocumented immigration from Mexico and helping communities enforce S.B. 4. As the ACLU of Texas explained, that bill "authorizes any and all law enforcement to arrest, and judges to order removed, anyone suspected of having entered Texas without papers." It also creates a state crime for unlawfully entering Texas from a foreign country—punishable by up to six months in jail or a $2,000 fine.

 

Domingo Garcia, national president of the League of United Latin American Citizens, said Monday that "LULAC denounces in the strongest terms possible the actions in Brownsville today of Gov. Greg Abbott and his supporters in the Texas Legislature."

 

"These individuals are determined to weaponize their legislative power for political gain at the expense of human beings," Garcia added. "Instead of working with Democrats in the Texas Legislature on a genuine solution, so-called Republican Christians are hypocritically turning their backs on the defenseless and aiding drug cartels and human smugglers profiting from the desperation of men, women, and children."

 

"Immigration is clearly a federal authority, and this legislation knowingly dances on the edge of constitutional cliffs at the expense of vulnerable children and families."

 

Click on the link for the full article

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[Larry]

Wondering why the BP's response to a soldier telling them to leave isn't "You are under arrest for interfering with a federal law enforcement officer".  

 

Followed by the use of lethal force.  

 

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[China]

Texas defies federal demand that it abandon border area, setting up legal showdown

 

The attorney general of Texas on Wednesday defied federal officials who demanded state authorities abandon a public park along the U.S.-Mexico border that state National Guard soldiers seized last week, setting up a legal showdown with the Biden administration over the country's immigration policies.

 

Over the weekend, the Department of Homeland Security called on Texas officials to stop blocking federal Border Patrol from entering Shelby Park in Eagle Pass, an area next to the Rio Grande that the agency had been using to hold and inspect migrants. The department said Texas' move to commandeer the park was obstructing Border Patrol's obligations to apprehend and process migrants.

 

The top lawyer at DHS, Jonathan Meyer, warned Texas Attorney General Paxton over the weekend that the department would refer the matter to the Justice Department for potential legal action if the state did not relent.

 

In a scathing response to Meyer on Wednesday, Paxton indicated that Texas would not back down, rejecting the Biden administration's accusation that state's actions were "clearly unconstitutional." 

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

I'm still dumbfounded by the fact that Paxton still has a job and isn't in jail.

[PeterMP]

What TX is doing is awful, immoral, and certainly seems illegal.

 

But can somebody explain to me why the Democrats have moved so far left in immigration.  Was just a reflective thing from Trump being so far right?  Do they think that being that far left is driving votes?

[TheGreatBuzz]

Biden needs to federalize the Texas National Guard and arrest anyone who disobeys orders. 

[Larry]

7 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

But can somebody explain to me why the Democrats have moved so far left in immigration.  Was just a reflective thing from Trump being so far right?  Do they think that being that far left is driving votes?

 

"So far left" on immigration?  

 

Could you give some examples?  (Who knows.  Maybe we can all look moderate, here?)  

 

4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Biden needs to federalize the Texas National Guard and arrest anyone who disobeys orders. 

 

Seems excessive to me.  (And I think there needs to be a reason to federalize the troops.)  

 

I'm thinking the next time a soldier steps into the path of a BP agent, the BP states "You are under arrest for interfering with a federal officer in the performance of his duties".  

Edited January 18 by Larry

[China]

Biden should just call up the Texas National Guard for a federal mission overseas and just ship them all somewhere other than Texas.

[PeterMP]

58 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

"So far left" on immigration?  

 

Could you give some examples?  (Who knows.  Maybe we can all look moderate, here?)  

 

Obama fined companies more money than any other President for hiring people here illegally (easily).  Deported more people than Bush. Arrested more people for hiring people illegally than Bush (and I believe more than any other President).   And made it mandatory for local officials to cooperate with the federal government on deportations.  And even organizations like the Cato Institute called his legacy "mixed".

 

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/obamas-mixed-legacy-immigration

 

I'm pretty sure that all of those numbers are way down with Biden.  My understanding is that Biden has essentially eliminated enforcement of hiring people illegally unless there is evidence the employer is mistreating the people and ended any real employment verification raids unless there is evidence the employer is illegally using child labor.  And has eliminated required participation with S-COMM or it's replacement PEP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_Enforcement_Program) by local governments.

 

People are coming here because they can find and get jobs.  That didn't happen as much under Obama partly because of the Great Recession, but also partly because of how much he went after employers for hiring illegals.  Which historically was the Democrats answer to illegal immigration.  To my knowledge, Biden has pretty much abandoned that approach and not really replaced it with anything (that is at all effective).

Edited January 18 by PeterMP

[Larry]

I'll point out that there's a lot unsupported in that post. 

 

But I have made some unsupported observations of my own, that agree with it. 

 

For over a decade, maybe two, my go-to stat for measuring the economy has been the BLS report on the number of jobs. 

 

Anf the numbers under Biden have been -difficult to believe. 

 

We're adding staggering numbers of jobs. At a time when Baby Boomers are setting records for retiring

 

I'd find it believable that we're hiring record numbers of Illegals. 

 

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Although then the question becomes - should we be?  Those jobs are adding to the economy. 

 

And real wages are going up (again). It seems like the (hypothetical) Illegals aren't driving down wages as a whole. 

 

And if those jobs are being filled by Illegals, and they get deported, what's the impact?  With unemployment around 3%, it's not like there's going to be a flood of Americans to rush in and fill all of the "they took our jobs"  

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

Seems excessive to me.  (And I think there needs to be a reason to federalize the troops.)  

 

I'm thinking the next time a soldier steps into the path of a BP agent, the BP states "You are under arrest for interfering with a federal officer in the performance of his duties".  

 

So mine is excessive but you instead want to do something that is MORE likely to involve shooting between the two?

 

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

I'll point out that there's a lot unsupported in that post. 

 

But I have made some unsupported observations of my own, that agree with it. 

 

For over a decade, maybe two, my go-to stat for measuring the economy has been the BLS report on the number of jobs. 

 

Anf the numbers under Biden have been -difficult to believe. 

 

We're adding staggering numbers of jobs. At a time when Baby Boomers are setting records for retiring

 

I'd find it believable that we're hiring record numbers of Illegals. 

 

-----

 

Although then the question becomes - should we be?  Those jobs are adding to the economy. 

 

And real wages are going up (again). It seems like the (hypothetical) Illegals aren't driving down wages as a whole. 

 

And if those jobs are being filled by Illegals, and they get deported, what's the impact?  With unemployment around 3%, it's not like there's going to be a flood of Americans to rush in and fill all of the "they took our jobs"  

 

Everything I said about Obama is in the CATO report.

 

The things for Biden are a little harder to fine.  But for example, things about them changing their policies on going after employers is  public.  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/us/politics/biden-workplace-immigration-raids.html

 

But some of it is a lack of reports.

 

For example, when I do a search for fines illegal hiring all of the hits I find either have to do with illegally hiring under age workers or are about changes in the law in the UK.

 

While if you reset the time frame and do a search when Obama was President, you get things like this.

 

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/washington-apple-orchard-fined-millions-following-ice-audit

 

Even going through pages of results using the search on the ICE page brings up things from other older administrations but not Biden.  If Biden is fining or arresting employers for hiring illegals, they certainly aren't advertising it.

 

1.  We should enforce the laws we have.  That's pretty straight forward, I think, especially as we have the ability to change them (e.g. do things like increase the number of temporary work visas).  I actually think that's part of the Democrats problems in general.  And actually hurts the ability to do things like getting comprehensive immigration reform passed.  If companies (including small businesses and farmers in rural areas) were very short on workers, prices were going up as a result of labor costs, and that was clear to everybody, then I think it would be more likely comprehensive immigration reform passes.

 

Democrats ignoring laws to make things better in the end just comes back and hurts them and everybody else.

 

2.  Allowing illegal immigration to increase due to what is almost certainly going to be a temporary low unemployment level (anybody really believe that there won't be another recession sometime and unemployment won't go back up) would be stupid/unethical.   Then what happens to the people that have been in this country illegally (potentially for years)?  Are you then going to go back to fining employers for hiring people illegally and force the people out of the US?  Are you going to let them stay even though unemployment is higher?

 

These are people's lives.  To just ignore laws that you might enforce later because it is temporarily convenient (and beneficial to us) and ignoring the long term consequences for those people and the countries they've come from is a huge issue for me.

 

3.  I think it hurts Biden and even other down ticket and local Democrats.  I think not having a plan to deal with illegal immigration is a loser.  And that's why you're seeing Democratic mayors push back them.  To say, well unemployment is low so we're okay with lots of illegal immigration hurts your ability to get people elected.

 

(This link says Democrats have an 18 point deficit on the GOP on immigration.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/biden-immigration-border-plan-voters-senate-negotiations-rcna125151)

Edited January 19 by PeterMP