The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

[visionary]

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by visionary

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[justice98]

Coulda swore I said this exact thing a couple weeks ago.  

 

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

 

[twa]

Quote

“I read the reports, saw the news clips. I just wanted to see what was actually happening in order to better enable our efforts to find a fair and a just solution to our broken immigration system," Rodriguez, who has advised President Trump and both Presidents Barack Obama and George W. Bush on immigration reform, noted. “To my surprise, I saw something drastically different from the stories I’ve been hearing in our national discourse. Even as a veteran of immigration advocacy in the U.S., I was shocked at the misinformation of the crisis at the border."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/immigration-border-facility-aoc-hispanic

 

are these a Rorschach test?

 

 

[redskinss]

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread for this question but can someone explain to me why the citizenship question on the census is a contentious matter.

I've heard people say its racist and I just dont understand why, but there could be something underlying that I'm not picking up on.

[Larry]

2 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread for this question but can someone explain to me why the citizenship question on the census is a contentious matter.

I've heard people say its racist and I just dont understand why, but there could be something underlying that I'm not picking up on.

 

The reason why it was put there in the first place is so that illegals (or people close to that status) will think it's a trick question to try to get them arrested, and will then hide from the census taker, and pretend not to be there.  Which will then cause areas high in Hispanics to be counted as having fewer people in them than they actually have.  Which will then allow Republican legislatures to add in more Republican neighborhoods to their congressional districts to "bring them up to the right population".  

 

(Now, I do think it's at least marginally legit to question whether it's racist, or are they simply trying to intentionally undercount Hispanics because they vote Democrat.)  

[No Excuses]

3 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread for this question but can someone explain to me why the citizenship question on the census is a contentious matter.

I've heard people say its racist and I just dont understand why, but there could be something underlying that I'm not picking up on.

 

It’s not “people” who said it’s racist, it was the GOPs own leaked internal documents:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/us/census-citizenship-question-hofeller.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

 

 

[twa]

1 minute ago, Larry said:

 

 

 

(Now, I do think it's at least marginally legit to question whether it's racist, or are they simply trying to intentionally undercount Hispanics because they vote Democrat.)  

 

Illegal Hispanics vote Democrat?

 

Or are you saying the legal ones are scared by the question?

[Larry]

1 minute ago, twa said:

 

Illegal Hispanics vote Democrat?

 

Or are you saying the legal ones are scared by the question?

 

You're trying to lie about what I said?  

 

Or you're simply incapable of grasping any statement that doesn't fit your agenda?  

 

[twa]

2 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

You're trying to lie about what I said?  

 

Or you're simply incapable of grasping any statement that doesn't fit your agenda?  

 

 

You are the one pointing out Hispanics vote Dem and complaining they might undercounted.

 

perhaps you could be clearer.

 

I live in a Hispanic district , will my vote count more or less with a illegal immigrant undercount?

 

 

[LadySkinsFan]

This is very long but it needs to be posted. The original author has intentionally given permission to share. It's about the company who is reaping the $750/day/child fees and the people behind this company.

 

So I decided to do a little research into the $750/day figure I’d heard a private company was charging the US government per each detained migrant child. I wanted to, with my own eyes and brain, 1. verify this figure was accurate; 2. verify it was indeed a private company instead of a non-profit charging this, if true, as both have managed these detention centers (not that it really matters, ultimately, but stay with me); 3. try to figure out where this per diem sum — more than my monthly mortgage — was going, if not to even buy these tortured children toothbrushes and soap, which are about the cheapest basic necessities on the market, and which no individual has to replace every day. 

 

$750/person A DAY should cover a lot of necessities, right? Right. So where the hell is all this money going? This can’t be true...

Well here’s what I found:

 

1. Yes, it’s a private company called Comprehensive Health Services (a subsidiary of Caliburn International). CHS operates the largest child migrant detention center, which is in FL and was already getting horrible press — especially from local FL papers — last year. But that didn’t matter, because CHS recently opened up a few more child prisons in TX, as it snagged a new government contract, despite many documented concerns about conditions there.

 

2. $750/day per child is an accurate sum of CHS’s CLAIMED operating costs, and what our federal tax dollars are paying for. A sum that was agreed to upon award of the contract. In fact, it was actually on the record as $775 last summer. 

 

3. So where is this money going, you wonder, if not to soap and toothbrushes? Yeah, I did too, and it was quite easy to dig up. CHS, via Caliburn, is controlled by the private equity firm DC Capital Partners. For those of you who don’t know how private equity firms work, look it up, or ask me in the comments. 

 

4. While I would not be able to find out vested shareholders in the DCCP portfolio, we do not have to assume they’re making some nice returns on these CHS operations and government contracts that line their pockets instead of covering even basic human needs for children. That’s clear, because why would a private company keep their costs down so low that they completely disregard humanity, even though they say they’re experts in “healthcare?” 

PROFIT. FOR THEIR PRIVATE INVESTORS.

 

5. While I can’t name for you the private investors getting rich off of this humanitarian crisis, I can name for you members of the advisory board of DCCP, which approves everything in the portfolio. 

 

First up: Trump’s former Chief of Staff, John Kelly, who was named to the board LAST MONTH, and photographed riding a golf cart into a CHS child prison. So with his own eyes, he saw the conditions there. And he was cool with it all, because hey, there’s money to be made for his rich investor friends, and maybe even himself! Who knows! Can’t say for sure, so feel free to reasonably assume what you wish. I’m just stating facts here. Coincidentally, prior to joining Trump in the WH, he was also a paid lobbyist for DCCP. Hmmmm...

 

6. So next up on the DCCP board: Richard L. Armitage, former U.S. deputy secretary of state; Michael Corbin; former ambassador to the United Arab Emirates; Michael V. Hayden, former director of the Central Intelligence Agency and of the National Security Agency; Donald M. Kerr Jr., former deputy director of science and technology at the CIA; Anthony C. Zinni, former commander-in-chief of the U.S. Central Command and former U.S. Envoy to the Middle East; and Stephen F. Loftus, former director of the Office of the Budget for the United States Navy.

Are y’all seeing any patterns here? 

 

7. Michael Hayden, last June, said on the record he sees “commonality” between Nazi Germany’s separation of children at concentration camps and the Trump administration policy that is forcing children to be separated from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border. 

"I know we’re not Nazi Germany, alright. But there is a commonality there, and a fear on my part ... We have standards we have to live up to,” Hayden told CNN’s “New Day.”

It appears he left those standards at the boardroom door, along with many other individuals that dance with greed and corruption on the line of the private and public sectors COMPLETELY UNCHECKED.

 

8. Last month, the same month Kelly got his new gig, the government awarded CHS a brand new, hush-hush contract worth $341 million, even though there had been tons of pressure to close it due to its conditions. 

THERE WAS NO COMPETITIVE BIDDING FOR THE CONTRACT, and it happened under the radar.

 

9. Just two months before this, in March, CHS/Caliburn cancelled its IPO after registering with the SEC to sell $100m public shares. The CEO cited “market forces,” yet made it clear the company was thriving and growing. 

——————

I’ll leave you to come to your own conclusions about all of this, or do more research. And I’ll post a ton of sources in the comments for those who actually think this administration is “draining the swamp,” or who want to debate the semantics of whether these ”centers” can reasonably be called child concentration camps or not without offending some non-brown people.

 

And for those of you who think children don’t deserve the most basic human rights because they’re not American: There’s a special place in hell for you, and I imagine hell to be a whole lot like this situation. 

 

For those of you who are cool lining the pockets of private citizens in DC with YOUR tax dollars while dirty, hungry, sick children live imprisoned and stacked in cages without even a dime of your money going to pay for soap and toothbrushes for these kids like it was supposed to: I’m ashamed to share this country with you as legal citizens, and I think you’re disgustingly dumb. We failed you, too, but at least you got to go to school when you were a kid, and didn’t spend childhood dying in a cage.

America, NONE OF THIS IS OK. WAKE UP.

——————

FRIDAY NIGHT UPDATE (!!)

1. As mentioned upon writing this, I originally posted my sources at the beginning of the comments thread at time of publishing -- before it became a large discussion. For your convenience and further reading, I am now moving my sources here + some extra homework for everyone to do (no particular order):

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/CLBR:US
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article229744049.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-kelly-joins-board-of-caliburn-international-company-operating-largest-unaccompanied-migrant-children-shelter/
https://news.littlesis.org/2019/02/13/wall-street-banks-former-defense-officials-looking-to-cash-in-on-child-detentions/?fbclid=IwAR3VPG3U1VqOlHvAus6mZwT5X42YR0946O-9ALtwFh-P-2i8P_ZxLQ8QvwE
https://thehill.com/latino/392727-hayden-sees-commonality-between-zero-tolerance-border-policy-and-nazi-germany?fbclid=IwAR1XcPVz72-f1ju70gdibR-H6-3tI8dOh_9yqfjZtNx-kfQJb6AMuf-gemI
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/13/694175061/florida-shelter-is-scrutinized-for-the-way-it-handles-migrant-children?fbclid=IwAR2Sq1vPOSLs0LPxkI6723lMKipsI12orZWMqxSzw9kqUqqTfM18gpo6xaU
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/21/us/migrant-shelters-border-crossing.html
https://heavy.com/news/2019/05/caliburn-international/?fbclid=IwAR1tsUMn2noGPGWEZxdwOlGwwCj-eDjaIR2I2pCNPd6qgehjCKs0lJpIJuQ
https://www.thedailybeast.com/doj-is-investigating-whether-us-payoffs-to-iraqi-officials-opened-the-door-for-isis?fbclid=IwAR2fXGNE328gvAi6bp7mD7SzKYo5wCY-x2lODw4fKDNrssupd-FGcOfmjnY
https://thebaffler.com/latest/retirement-brought-to-you-by-prisons-inc?fbclid=IwAR3STKgqiMOtVUho4QPq21zXRNovBl8_gvKpFdX3rUWahrOuZmBLJ9pO_m0
https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/local/2018/06/20/cape-canaveral-detention-center/717375002/
https://www.chsmedical.com/compliance

 

The people have spoken, so hope that helps you all wrap your minds around this in a more complete and credible way. Thank you to all who have participated in civil dialogue and shared this post. Let's keep it constructive, as we do not need to be even more destructive than the current situation. 

 

2. THE POST IS ALREADY PUBLIC + SHAREABLE. Please do not ask me if you can share it -- I made it public, which is why you can see it. You should be able to share the original version. If you can't, refresh your app, run your updates or make sure you aren't still viewing a friend's protected share of the original itself. There is no possible way I can instruct all individuals on how to share it -- but I appreciate all of you who are moved by these words, and want to raise awareness about this distressing situation.

 

3. Your concern has given me hope. Do your homework. Look into your group investment portfolios, pensions, etc. Know where your money is invested. Call your legislators. Do anything but freak out to the point of being unproductive and histrionic. DO ANYTHING BUT BE AWFUL TO EACH OTHER. 

 

Thank you. We are in this together.

[twa]

the toothbrushes and soap issue was at border detention facilities  ,not the private detention facilities they are sent to after processing.

 

the author could at least get basic issues right. 

[The Evil Genius]

40 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread for this question but can someone explain to me why the citizenship question on the census is a contentious matter.

I've heard people say its racist and I just dont understand why, but there could be something underlying that I'm not picking up on.

 

Congressional seats are based on resident population. Resident population contains both citizens and non citizens. The GOP attempted (again according to their own internal memos) to undercount the non-resident population by knowingly loading a question onto the 2020 census that would likely result in someone not filling in the census questionnaire.

 

Now why would they do that? Is it so they can undercount states with large non citizen populations? Yeah. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by The Evil Genius

[LadySkinsFan]

3 minutes ago, twa said:

the toothbrushes and soap issue was at border detention facilities  ,not the private detention facilities they are sent to after processing.

 

the author could at least get basic issues right. 

 

The basic issue is that we, by government contract, are allowing child abuse on a massive scale. 

 

If you think this is okay, you are no better than the worst totalitarian regimes ever in the world. That our country is doing this is anathema.

 

We should be better. And with the Republicans in power, we're not. 

[twa]

2 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

The basic issue is that we, by government contract, are allowing child abuse on a massive scale. 

 

If you think this is okay, you are no better than the worst totalitarian regimes ever in the world. That our country is doing this is anathema.

 

We should be better. And with the Republicans in power, we're not. 

 

If you see child abuse you should report it, not falsely assign it to a different facility.

 

 

 

 

[Skintime]

 

 

 

2

43 minutes ago, twa said:

the toothbrushes and soap issue was at border detention facilities  ,not the private detention facilities they are sent to after processing.

 

the author could at least get basic issues right. 

LOL, you start first

[Destino]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/why-americas-immigration-system-is-broken/593143/

 

Quote

The detention of asylum seekers is also intended as a deterrent, but it has not proved very effective. Congress has funded only 45,000 detention beds, declining to 40,000 after September of this year. And since a 1997 judicial settlement forbids immigration authorities to detain adults and unaccompanied minors together, the detention policy in turn has given rise to the inhumane system of separate facilities for minor children.   

 

Nobody intended to build “concentration camps,” as they have been polemically denounced. What we’re seeing instead is the inevitable failure of the attempt to process hundreds of thousands of would-be migrants through a system intended for a few thousand victims of state-sponsored persecution—all under the supervision of a slow-moving judiciary and subject to tight budget constraints. Of course it’s a miserable failure. And of course the people responsible for administering that inevitable failure become short-tempered, harsh, and secretive. They are bureaucrats tasked to do the predictably impossible.

 

People may not agree with this writers thoughts on what to do, but he’s 100% correct in saying the asylum system is broken.  It can not handle the numbers being pushed through it and law makers know this.  Hell, anyone paying any attention at all knows this, but for some reason the federal government would rather watch it inevitably fail than do anything at all.  At the very least they could expand its capacity to handle the legal side of it.  More immigration courts, and a more stream lined process for faster decisions and appeals, for example, would help.  

 

Leaving things as they are is just creating more over crowding, more abuse, and more suffering.  The system simply wasn’t designed to handle a problem this large.  

 

[Larry]

1 hour ago, twa said:

 

If you see child abuse you should report it, not falsely assign it to a different facility.

 

 

If child abuse has been seen and reported, you should have a problem with the child abuse, not try to defend it by trying to accuse a reporter of malice for not keeping track of which location one particular kind of child abuse has been reported at, so far.  

 

[twa]

23 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

If child abuse has been seen and reported, you should have a problem with the child abuse, not try to defend it by trying to accuse a reporter of malice for not keeping track of which location one particular kind of child abuse has been reported at, so far.  

 

 

If a reporter cannot get basic details right it just deflects attention from where it is needed.

[Larry]

1 minute ago, twa said:

 

If a reporter cannot get basic details right it just deflects attention from where it is needed.

 

Note to everybody:  On this day, twa accused a reporter of deflecting.  

[twa]

1 minute ago, Larry said:

 

Note to everybody:  On this day, twa accused a reporter of deflecting.  

 

still waiting on you to clarify that hispanic voting post