The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

[Bozo the kKklown]

35 minutes ago, Larry said:

Not sure that it's proven "the best way".  I'd argue that cracking down on the employers who hire illegals might be a contender for "the best way".  

I’m confused, are undocumented people risking their lives to come here from Norway? The UK? Canada?

 

[twa]

If ya'll are fine with motivation being critical to the courts determination whether executive actions or laws are legal or not there are going to be some surprises in store.   

[TheGreatBuzz]

Can one agree with question being on the census and disagree with the reason the GOP is doing it?

[Corcaigh]

What about the millions of non-citizens who are here legally? The census question did not ask about legal presence, and so areas with high numbers of legal immigrants, such as green card holders, would have their population under counted.

[Larry]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I’m confused, are undocumented people risking their lives to come here from Norway? The UK? Canada?

 

 

Wow, you're right. That obviously proves that trying to alter the employment status of everybody in Central America is a better strategy that trying to enforce US law within the US. 

[Larry]

42 minutes ago, Corcaigh said:

What about the millions of non-citizens who are here legally? The census question did not ask about legal presence, and so areas with high numbers of legal immigrants, such as green card holders, would have their population under counted.

 

I don't think they're being quite so bold as to say that non-citizens don't count as people. (Although, the chutzpah of the GOP these days does seem to be without limit.)

 

I think the plan is that, if they put this question on there, them millions of non-citizens will simply pretend that Papa doesn't live here, we don't know where he might be. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

18 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Wow, you're right. That obviously proves that trying to alter the employment status of everybody in Central America is a better strategy that trying to enforce US law within the US. 

Did you even read my original post? Good grief, get out of here with this mealy mouth garbled garbage. 

[Corcaigh]

12 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

I don't think they're being quite so bold as to say that non-citizens don't count as people. (Although, the chutzpah of the GOP these days does seem to be without limit.)

 

I think the plan is that, if they put this question on there, them millions of non-citizens will simply pretend that Papa doesn't live here, we don't know where he might be. 

 

My point was that a key purpose of the census is to help with decisions about allocation of resources through understanding demographics. What does citizenship have to do with that? Even if someone was to decide that illegal immigrants don't deserve resources, what about the 15 million or more non-citizens who are here legally and governments need to plan around their existence?

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Corcaigh

[Larry]

3 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Did you even read my original post? Good grief, get out of here with this mealy mouth garbled garbage. 

 

Nah.  I quoted your original post without reading it.  

 

But thanks for attacking my post, while apparently admitting that you don't understand it.  

 

[twa]

I'm fine with asking your legal status, should be included along with the citizenship status.

 

The fear illegals will not answer on a census is comical .

 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Why is it comical? I think if the census asked me if I was doing something illegal and I was id certainly be less likely to return the census.

 

 

I think it’s unfair to have sanctuary cities get more government money because they voluntarily choose to harbor illegal immigrants, though..

[Larry]

20 minutes ago, twa said:

 

 

The fear illegals will not answer on a census is comical .

 

 

 

The "fear illegals will not answer on a census" is the reason they're pushing it.  (And the reason you're pushing it.)  

 

[twa]

3 hours ago, Larry said:

 

The "fear illegals will not answer on a census" is the reason they're pushing it.  (And the reason you're pushing it.)  

 

 

If I don't answer the census they send someone to make me....are they different?

[Destino]

4 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Why is it comical? I think if the census asked me if I was doing something illegal and I was id certainly be less likely to return the census.

 

I think it’s unfair to have sanctuary cities get more government money because they voluntarily choose to harbor illegal immigrants, though..

Has anyone seen the question?  I haven't.  Does it ask "Citizen?  Yes or No." orr does it ask what a persons citizenship or residency status is forcing those that reply to check off some version of "illegal"?

[visionary]

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by visionary

[Cooked Crack]

 

14 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Can one agree with question being on the census and disagree with the reason the GOP is doing it?

If you want an undercount of 8 million folks then sure. They can do other surveys that don't affect hundreds of billions dollars in federal funding. 

[twa]

4 hours ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

If you want an undercount of 8 million folks then sure. They can do other surveys that don't affect hundreds of billions dollars in federal funding. 

 

 

Is it only 8 million?

 

They do yearly surveys they could adjust the numbers with if they desire, if the census can have all those other questions then there is no excuse not to have legal status.

 

add

 

They give drivers licenses to illegals yet answering a question on the census is a bridge too far?????

Edited June 28, 2019 by twa

[CousinsCowgirl84]

ken has it right, though some of the blame also goes to the corrupt governments in the country he came from, and then Mexico who didn’t provide shelter for him during the asylum process, then I guess a small bit of blame goes to the United States for not moving fast enoughz

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Larry]

7 hours ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

I certainly think he deserves some of it.  I mean, yes, it was his decision to swim to the US.  

 

I think there's some other blame to go around, too.  But he's got a chunk of it, himself.  

 

 

[visionary]

29 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

I certainly think he deserves some of it.  I mean, yes, it was his decision to swim to the US.  

They were swimming across the Rio Grande, not an ocean....

 

https://www.apnews.com/2f8422c820104d6eaad9b73d939063a9

 

 

Quote

Tamaulipas immigration and civil defense officials have toured shelters beginning weeks ago to warn against attempting to cross the river, said to be swollen with water released from dams for irrigation. On the surface, the Rio Grande appears placid, but strong currents run beneath.

 

Ramírez said her son and his family left El Salvador on April 3 and spent about two months at a shelter in Tapachula, near Mexico’s border with Guatemala.

 

“I begged them not to go, but he wanted to scrape together money to build a home,” Ramírez said. “They hoped to be there a few years and save up for the house.”

 

El Salvador’s foreign ministry said it was working to assist the family, including Ávalos, who was at a border migrant shelter following the drownings. The bodies were expected to be flown to El Salvador on Thursday.

Quote

U.S. “metering” policy has dramatically reduced the number of migrants who are allowed to request asylum, down from dozens per day previously to sometimes just a handful at some ports of entry.

 

The Tamaulipas government official said the family arrived in Matamoros early Sunday and went to the U.S. Consulate to try to get a date to request asylum. The mother is 21 years old and the father was 25, he added.

 

But waits are long there as elsewhere along the border. Last week, a shelter director said only about 40 to 45 asylum interviews were being conducted in Matamoros each week, while somewhere in the neighborhood of 800-1,700 names were on a waiting list.

 

 

 

Quote

The United States has also been expanding its program under which asylum seekers wait in Mexico while their claims are processed in U.S. courts, a wait that could last many months or even years.

 

This week Nuevo Laredo in Tamaulipas, the same state where Matamoros is located, said it will become the latest city to receive returnees as soon as Friday.

 

Many migrant shelters are overflowing on the Mexican side, and cartels hold sway over much of Tamaulipas and have been known to kidnap and kill migrants.

 

Meanwhile, Mexico is stepping up its own crackdown on immigration in response to U.S. pressure, with much of the focus on slowing the flow in the country’s south.

 

“With greater crackdowns and restrictions,” said Cris Ramón, senior immigration policy analyst at the Bipartisan Policy Center think tank in Washington, “we could see more desperate measures by people trying to enter Mexico or the U.S.”

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by visionary

[Larry]

21 minutes ago, visionary said:

They were swimming across the Rio Grande, not an ocean....

 

And apparently that was too much.  

[Destino]

The image of those two dead on the shore is devastating.  It hurts just catching a glimpse of it.  I understand the father's reasoning to strive for a better life and I sympathize with him.  He was trying to make a better life for himself, for his family.  This is something that when you live in a wealthy country doesn't carry the same weight as it does to those in far worse circumstances.  Here there are paths forward that don't require desperate acts.  That's not true everywhere. 

 

That being true doesn't somehow shift the blame to US immigration law.  The US did not cause those two to die, every nation is perfectly justified in setting it's own immigration law and determining for itself what immigrants it chooses to allow in.  How exactly the US goes about doing that and who is allowed in could certainly use a dramatic improvement, but that doesn't mean the government forced anyone to swim a river.  

 

Not every horrible thing needs to be used to win a political fight. 
 

[visionary]

5 minutes ago, Destino said:

That being true doesn't somehow shift the blame to US immigration law. 

No need to shift that which is already in place.

[Larry]

8 minutes ago, Destino said:

That being true doesn't somehow shift the blame to US immigration law.  The US did not cause those two to die, every nation is perfectly justified in setting it's own immigration law and determining for itself what immigrants it chooses to allow in.  How exactly the US goes about doing that and who is allowed in could certainly use a dramatic improvement, but that doesn't mean the government forced anyone to swim a river.  

 

While I'm not going to say Dad was completely blameless, I have to say that IMO, Trump's changing the rules every two weeks, just to impress his base with how Great he is at ****ing with brown people, isn't completely blameless, either.