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The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn


Burgold

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Just now, tshile said:

2 years. I give it 2 years.

 

Also not convinced the best thing for the dems is for pence to be in charge.

It's not.  Pence will look all too sane after Trump.  That ups Pence's chances for election in 2020.

 

But this is no time for political triangulation, there are greater concerns.

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4 minutes ago, tshile said:

2 years. I give it 2 years.

 

Also not convinced the best thing for the dems is for pence to be in charge.

 

That's what scares me. Pence will be just as much of a problem. We are literally ****ed sideways here. 

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Just now, DogofWar1 said:

It's not.  Pence will look all too sane after Trump.  That ups Pence's chances for election in 2020.

 

But this is no time for political triangulation, there are greater concerns.

That's what you think the concern is? Pence will make a run for 2020?

 

I was thinking more: has house, senate, governors, scotus nominations federal judge appointments....

 

He'll turn back the progressive movement and put sufficient road blocks in place to lock things up for 15 years.

 

2020 election will be irrelevant for the progressive ideals.

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5 minutes ago, tshile said:

2 years. I give it 2 years.

 

Also not convinced the best thing for the dems is for pence to be in charge.

 

I rather have Pence over Trump.  Pence would be George W. Bush, maybe more insane.  But I rather have a religious conservative than a white nationalist.

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1 minute ago, redskins59 said:

 

I rather have Pence over Trump.  Pence would be George W. Bush, maybe more insane.  But I rather have a religious conservative than a white nationalist.

Nothing trump has done can be undone.

 

I don't expect that to change, except for maybe healthcare.

 

Trump will likely waste his political capital. I think pence will get every last drop out of it.

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1 minute ago, tshile said:

Nothing trump has done can be undone.

 

I don't expect that to change, except for maybe healthcare.

 

Trump will likely waste his political capital. I think pence will get every last drop out of it.

 

Well, but at least Pence is a politician.  Every job needs experience,including political jobs.  Pence would not cause the chaos that Trump created by the immigration ban, where we have some people stuck and have no idea where to go.  This was because of Trump's experience.   He would at least discuss things with his staff before making a judgment.  

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2 minutes ago, tshile said:

Nothing trump has done can be undone.

 

I don't expect that to change, except for maybe healthcare.

 

Trump will likely waste his political capital. I think pence will get every last drop out of it.

 

 

If Trump for whatever reason is booted. I think its a safe bet he turns his anger on everyone...including Pence. He'll say Pence gave him bad advice and is disloyal. I just hope that guys like Spicer and Reince live long enough to be referred to as enemies of the American Ideal in history books. 

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1 minute ago, tshile said:

That's what you think the concern is? Pence will make a run for 2020?

 

I was thinking more: has house, senate, governors, scotus nominations federal judge appointments....

 

He'll turn back the progressive movement and put sufficient road blocks in place to lock things up for 15 years.

 

2020 election will be irrelevant for the progressive ideals.

 

Again, greater concerns are in play here.  I fully understand the potential damage Pence could do.

 

But that would be within the context of a system that is at least somewhat stable and standing.  Yes, the social damage would be tremendous.  Yes, the economic harms would be serious.

 

But Pence would, hopefully, expel Bannon and Flynn, and put people in place who at least sorta kinda take things seriously.  He'd likely re-affirm NATO.  He'd keep the pressure on Russians.  He'd likely try to re-establish trading links with SE Asia to slow Chinese economic gains.

 

Trump has the potential to, and seems to want to, totally dismantle the institutions that helped protect the US, and keep it at the top.

 

Social damage can be fixed.  Yes, it will suck for that 15-20 years, but the damage can be undone.  Economic damage can be fixed, but only if we don't totally become protectionist and kill off our ability to utilize globalization for economic gain.

 

Pence is the sequel to Bush 43.  Bigger, badder, more ridiculous in every way.  Jaws 2 to Bush 43's Jaws.

 

Trump is "The Room."  He's going to destroy everything we hold dear and burn any bridges back.

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1. The ACLU is fighting the good fight on this.

 

https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/aclu-and-other-groups-challenge-trump-immigration-ban-after-refugees-detained

 

2. A lot of right wing commentators are pointing out that Obama did this kind of thing. Here's an article examining those claims:

 

http://heavy.com/news/2017/01/barack-obama-ban-refugees-did-iraq-iraqi-muslim-trump-jimmy-carter-iran-iranian-immigration/

 

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