The Gun Control Debate Thread

[bcl05]

I don't claim to know anything about guns, but I do know that the US is unique in that over 30,000 of us die every year from gun deaths.  That's more than enough evidence for me that far, far too many Americans can't be trusted with deadly weapons and that we must do something different.    Since we obviously aren't doing a good job of identifying who can and can't be trusted with guns, we all should forfeit some access until we can.  

[twa]

https://www.prageru.com/video/what-should-we-do-about-guns/

 

 

[Springfield]

This thread is pointless.  271 pages of drivel while bodies keep piling up and nothing changes.

 

Why even try to have a conversation about it any more?

[Larry]

7 minutes ago, Springfield said:

This thread is pointless.  271 pages of drivel while bodies keep piling up and nothing changes.

 

Why even try to have a conversation about it any more?

 

You know what I find pointless?  

 

People who come into a thread which is clearly clearly labeled as being about Subject X, to complain about people talking about Subject X. 

 

 

 

I don't like talking about ice hockey. I don't feel any urge to go into the ice hockey thread and announce that opinion, to a room full of people who ARE talking about ice hockey. 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Larry

[Springfield]

1 minute ago, Larry said:

 

You know what I find pointless?  

 

People who come into a thread which is clearly clearly labeled as being about Subject X, to complain about people talking about Subject X. 

 

I don't like talking about ice hockey. I don't feel any urge to go into the ice hockey thread and announce that opinion, to a room full of people who ARE talking about ice hockey. 

 

I mean, it's not like anyone else is adding anything constructive to the conversation anyhow.  Why not voice my displeasure with the state of affairs in this country?

 

You might not like ice hockey, might not play ice hockey or watch ice hockey.  Fine don't post in the ice hockey thread.  I do have to live in a world where some nut job with a gun can walk into any crowded space and kill indiscriminately.  So allow me to come into this thread, which I have posted in over the years because I live in a world, and complain that the whole premise is pointless.

 

 

 

And since I have your attention and it's a Sunday morning and I'm having my coffee, allow me to indulge you in a personal story...

 

My oldest child goes to a Lutheran church in Springfield for pre school.  He goes monday, wednesday, friday and I take him there monday and friday because my work is in the same shopping center as his school.  Well, I also have a former neighbor who lives in that neighborhood who should be in a mental institution.  He's paranoid schizophrenic, and while I was friendly with him when my wife and I lived across the hall from him in our apartment things quickly soured when we decided to move to a bigger townhome.  He accused me of breaking into his house and stealing his hair to perform some sort of voodoo to harm him, he accused my step father of poisoning his toilet seat to do him harm.  In a phone call he told me to stop my actions that were harming him and even confronted me when I was walking to my car which was parked near his apartment, this was about 4 years ago and I cut off communications with him.  Since then, my wife and I have had another kid (two boys now) and moved to a nice single family home in Burke.

 

Back to my oldest child who goes to pre K in this church near my work.  I take him there twice a week in the same neighborhood that this crazy person lives (he's about a mile from the church and my place of employment).  The week before Easter was a strange one.  On Thursday, I'm leaving the grocery store where I get my lunch and see the guy (I'd seen him a handful of times since I cut off any communication with him) and he follows me back towards my work.  Creepy as hell, he yells some obscenities at me as I'm not engaging him and that's that.  Then the next day I take my son to school and there was a chapel service for the kids so I stayed for that.  As I'm walking out of the church, I see this guy sitting in the shopping center across the parking lot from the church.  I take a different path to my work and that is that...

 

Until the next week.  I get a call on my work phone from somebody who works for the church.  They ask if I know the name of this person.  I say, "Yep, sure do" considering the events of the week prior it was starting to make sense.  Apparently he called the church and went on a 10 minute rant in which, in addition to many other things, he accused the church and myself of entering into a pact to do him harm and that we should stop or he will make it stop himself.  Now, that sounds like a threat, no?  No, according to the police it's not because he didn't specify what he was going to do to make it stop himself (he might simply call the police).  So the police were notified of his presence but that's about all.  I'm concerned for the safety of my son as well as the others in the school.  Well, over the next week or two he hangs around the shopping center staring at the church until apparently one evening he walked into the church as they were having choir practice.  I don't know what was said but the next day the church got a restraining order against him.

 

That's been a month or so now, and that's the last we've really heard of him.  Apparently he does hang in the shopping center at times, but that's pretty much all that can be done.  Hope he got the picture.  I've been carrying a knife with me at all times at work, to the church and up to the grocery store in the shopping center ever since this started.  When I lived across the hall from his creep ass I didn't think he would be capable of something crazy, but he had his condition under a fair amount of control.  After I moved out, it's like let loose and my wife and I became the focus of his ire.  Hope he gets the help he needs before he hurts somebody or something.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

14 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

And since I have your attention and it's a Sunday morning and I'm having my coffee, allow me to indulge you in a personal story...

 

 

What you need is a Saturday Night Special. 

 

 

I agree it seems reasonable to point out the debate is dead. It’s laughable to allow advocates of guns to feel good about their talk of “how good people who own guns are” and how everyone “wants smart gun control” while they simultaneously pay for the NRA and their politicians.

[Springfield]

2 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

What you need is a Saturday Night Special. 

 

 

I agree it seems reasonable to point out the debate is dead. It’s laughable to allow advocates of guns to feel good about their talk of “how good people who own guns are” and how everyone “wants smart gun control” while they simultaneously pay for the NRA and their politicians.

 

Funny thing, the song "Saturday Night Special" is an anti-gun anthem and the band Lynyrd Skynyrd, who tout a confederate flag as their logo, aren't racists.

[Larry]

25 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I mean, it's not like anyone else is adding anything constructive to the conversation anyhow.

 

You came to this conclusion after reading the thread that you claim is pointless?

 

 

 

[Bang]

Agreed.

this conversation goes like this.

"It happened again. we should do something."
"**** you, and shut the **** up about it. Go buy another gun if you want to control something."
"But we have this huge problem, and we should do something about it"
"We did, back in 1776. Now get back to the shutting the **** up about it part."

"But i have this idea, and here it is..."
"Which part of "**** you" don't you get?"

 

 

rinse, repeat.

 

~Bang

Edited June 2, 2019 by Bang

[Larry]

26 minutes ago, Springfield said:

And since I have your attention and it's a Sunday morning and I'm having my coffee, allow me to indulge you in a personal story...

 

Granted, I'm hijacking a personal story, to turn it into a gun control question. (And therefore make it on topic). 

 

Should the person described above be allowed to have a gun?  Please specify the criteria you used, to come to that position. 

 

Please bear in mind. For every person who grabs a gun and goes postal, there's thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of people like this, who don't. So if you take away his guns, (or block him from purchasing any), odds are, he wouldn't have harmed anybody, anyway. 

[Springfield]

9 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Granted, I'm hijacking a personal story, to turn it into a gun control question. (And therefore make it on topic). 

 

Should the person described above be allowed to have a gun?  Please specify the criteria you used, to come to that position. 

 

Please bear in mind. For every person who grabs a gun and goes postal, there's thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of people like this, who don't. So if you take away his guns, (or block him from purchasing any), odds are, he wouldn't have harmed anybody, anyway. 

 

No, this person should not be able to purchase a gun.  In fact, I don't think he has the ability to legally.  He is prescribed anti psychotic (I think) medications.  He has been institutionalized in the past.  He sees a social worker for his mental health (or at least used to and I assume he still does).  I believe that he is consistently present in the shopping center where I work and my kid goes to school because his psych office is located near by.  The times that has been seen are fairly consistent with a possible medical schedule.  That said, his parents live close by and at some point, his father was an arms dealer.

 

But short answer, no he should absolutely not have access to a gun.

 

I think that nobody who takes mind altering substances for a medical condition should be allowed to purchase a firearm.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Springfield

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

I don't like talking about ice hockey. I don't feel any urge to go into the ice hockey thread and announce that opinion, to a room full of people who ARE talking about ice hockey. 

You should try it. They absolutely HATE that in there. It’s a lot of fun really. The only thing they hate more is people who sort of like hockey.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

19 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

I agree it seems reasonable to point out the debate is dead. It’s laughable to allow advocates of guns to feel good about their talk of “how good people who own guns are” and how everyone “wants smart gun control” while they simultaneously pay for the NRA and their politicians.

 

Yet you continue to post about the topic and debate it with others.  You don’t have to engage on the topic, so why do care if others want to?  

 

I can’t speak for others, but the last time I checked, I’m still a registered Democrat, not a member or supporter of the NRA or any lobbyists for that matter.  

 

I speak for what I’d like to see happen, which is both sides working together and starting with common sense laws and going from there.

 

This thread is also used to post current articles/info in regards to all things related to gun control (e.g. new laws, proposed bans, etc).  Not just debating back and forth, though that is part of it.

 

It was created to keep all of that in here instead of hijacking the mass shooting thread, which kept happening and apparently still does.  

[TheGreatBuzz]

 

 

2 hours ago, Springfield said:

 

Funny thing, the song "Saturday Night Special" is an anti-gun anthem and the band Lynyrd Skynyrd, who tout a confederate flag as their logo, aren't racists.

 

No.  Anything and everything associated with the Confederate flag automatically makes you racist and essentially a klansman.

 

Or so I'm told.

 

2 hours ago, Springfield said:

 

I think that nobody who takes mind altering substances for a medical condition should be allowed to purchase a firearm.

 

Define mind altering.  

[Larry]

3 hours ago, Springfield said:

I think that nobody who takes mind altering substances for a medical condition should be allowed to purchase a firearm.

 

Not absolutely certain I disagree with you. But I want to point out that a law like that is going to come with a boatload of side effects. 

 

For one thing, you're going to limit tens of thousands of people in order to maybe prevent one attack. 

 

And youre not even going to be able to point at the one attack you prevented. It simply won't happen. 

 

But another side side effect of your proposal will be thousands of people like this one saying "take away my guns?  **** that!  I'm just gonna stop seeing the doctor, stop my meds, and then I can have guns."

[Springfield]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

 

 

No.  Anything and everything associated with the Confederate flag automatically makes you racist and essentially a klansman.

 

Or so I'm told.

 

 

Define mind altering.  

 

1.  It’s just my personal experience but most of the people who I’ve ever met who proudly display the flag of the enemy are racist, say racist things, etc.

 

2.  Mind alter to me is something like a drug that is used to prevent something like psychosis.  Perhaps even some anti depressants or anti anxiety meds.  But I’m not a psychologist in the least so I’d defer to medical professionals as to the necessity.

 

3.  @Larry is certainly right that people who would otherwise be on medication may refuse to take it in order to own guns.  Sadly, in order to get help, you have to want to be helped.  Priorities.

 

 

Also, the Wapo has a great graphic online today about mass murders.  To me, it was clear that the AWB stifled mass murders and they proliferated soon after it expired and AR15 and the like became outrageously popular.

 

So we should probably start by reinstating that...

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

1 hour ago, Springfield said:

 

1.  It’s just my personal experience but most of the people who I’ve ever met who proudly display the flag of the enemy are racist, say racist things, etc.

 

2.  Mind alter to me is something like a drug that is used to prevent something like psychosis.  Perhaps even some anti depressants or anti anxiety meds.  But I’m not a psychologist in the least so I’d defer to medical professionals as to the necessity.

 

3.  @Larry is certainly right that people who would otherwise be on medication may refuse to take it in order to own guns.  Sadly, in order to get help, you have to want to be helped.  Priorities.

 

 

Also, the Wapo has a great graphic online today about mass murders.  To me, it was clear that the AWB stifled mass murders and they proliferated soon after it expired and AR15 and the like became outrageously popular.

 

So we should probably start by reinstating that...

 

I'm fine with another ban as long as it grandfathers in those that purchased any weapon legally prior to the new ban going into effect.  Or if the government will reimburse the individuals (reasonable amount) for any weapon that would become banned should they be required to turn them in.  I'm fine with that ban including limiting magazine capacity to 10 rounds again too.

 

With that said, there are studies out there that also show that the AWB overall did not have that much impact on the total numbers of shooting deaths.  That the number of crimes using assault weapons that were banned decreased, but there was an increase in crimes used by other non-banned weapons.  Basically, now I can't get access to assault rifle A so I'll go out and buy gun B instead.  

 

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/we-banned-assault-weapons-before-and-it-didnt-work/

 

https://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2018/feb/23/ted-deutch/did-mass-shootings-increase-200-percent-assault-we/

 

http://politicalviolenceataglance.org/2017/11/07/did-banning-assault-weapons-affect-mass-shootings/

 

I think it lowered the total number of victims per incident, which is more than enough to start another AWB back up.  Like I said, start small and work up to bigger things.  I just don't like the extremes from both sides on this.  But again, both the democratic and republican parties want this to be an issue because its all about votes to them at the end of the day.

[Cooked Crack]

 

[tshile]

Sweet. So more gun control talk that’ll never pass. 

 

VA republicans are awful and the dems can’t pass it by themselves. So, nothing will happen. Good deal. 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

7 minutes ago, tshile said:

Sweet. So more gun control talk that’ll never pass. 

 

VA republicans are awful and the dems can’t pass it by themselves. So, nothing will happen. Good deal. 

 

 

Virginia is becoming a blue state, it’s only a mater of time.

[tshile]

1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

Virginia is becoming a blue state, it’s only a mater of time.

 

Hah. I’d prefer that and even I think you’re clueless if you think that. 

 

Nova richmond and Hampton roads are blue. The rest of the stare is very, very red. 

 

I’ll believe all these claims about blue wave and such when I actually see it. One off year election does not a trend make. 

[Cooked Crack]

5 minutes ago, tshile said:

I’ll believe all these claims about blue wave and such when I actually see it. One off year election does not a trend make. 

That's gerrymandering for you. Just have to see if VA Dems actually show up after the courts redrew some of those districts. VA is trending blue. When's the last time a Republican won a statewide federal office?

[tshile]

36 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

That's gerrymandering for you. Just have to see if VA Dems actually show up after the courts redrew some of those districts. VA is trending blue. When's the last time a Republican won a statewide federal office?

 

McDonnell. 

I don’t know that the last 2 gop candidates were any good. Wasn’t Corey Stewart one of them?

[Cooked Crack]

19 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

McDonnell. 

I don’t know that the last 2 gop candidates were any good. Wasn’t Corey Stewart one of them?

McDonnell won in 2010 and that wasn't federal. Only focusing on federal cause even true blue states can elect Republican governors. The last federal election won by a Republican in VA was George Bush in 2004. Some close calls here and there but VA is blue. Without gerrymandering this would have been more obvious.

[tshile]

Oh I missed the federal part