The Gun Control Debate Thread

[Renegade7]

On 6/2/2019 at 10:38 AM, Springfield said:

 

I think that nobody who takes mind altering substances for a medical condition should be allowed to purchase a firearm.

 

You have no idea how bad an idea that is.  It's hard enough as it is getting men to get help they need.  Can we even name a prescribed medication that doesn't have some risk of depression as a side effect?

[Springfield]

30 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You have no idea how bad an idea that is.  It's hard enough as it is getting men to get help they need.  Can we even name a prescribed medication that doesn't have some risk of depression as a side effect?

 

I think the perfect idea is to forcibly take away everyone’s guns.  But since that isn’t happening, then we can talk “mental health”.  What a ****ing cop out that is, mental health.

 

When you start ACTUALLY talking mental health you get to screenings and personal info and exclusions and stuff that people are really sensitive about.  Kinda like my post you quoted.

 

So now, mental health is out, taking people’s guns is out and here we are cracking jokes about the next mass murder.

 

Ill set the over/under at the next mass murder at 3 weeks from today, what’s your money on?

[Renegade7]

15 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

So now, mental health is out, taking people’s guns is out and here we are cracking jokes about the next mass murder.

 

Ill set the over/under at the next mass murder at 3 weeks from today, what’s your money on?

 

Speaking as someone with mental health issues and taking medication, I just commented on how heavy a hand your idea is without seeming like you fully understand it.  If you want to be realistic, do that.

[Larry]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You have no idea how bad an idea that is.  It's hard enough as it is getting men to get help they need.  Can we even name a prescribed medication that doesn't have some risk of depression as a side effect?

 

Just out of curiosity, do you know for a fact that he's talking about every medication that lists "may cause drowsiness" as a side effect, or whether he's talking about those medications classified as psychotropic?  

[Springfield]

26 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Speaking as someone with mental health issues and taking medication, I just commented on how heavy a hand your idea is without seeming like you fully understand it.  If you want to be realistic, do that.

 

I’m not going to pretend to be a psych professional, but do you think that people with paranoid schizophrenia or psychosis should own guns?  People battling depression?  In a general sense, these are the EXACT archetypes for mass murderers.

 

If they are taking drugs to combat these instabilities then that’s great, good for them.  I don’t think that suddenly cures someone and makes them any less of a threat to society.

 

If a person values their right to own a gun over their own mental health then I’d say that is the EXACT type of person who shouldn’t be owing a gun.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Springfield

[Larry]

1 minute ago, Springfield said:

If a person values their right to own a gun over their own mental health then I’d say that is the EXACT type of person who shouldn’t be owing a gun.

 

Could you tell us how you intend to write a law that will screen out "people who ought to be taking medication for their mental illness, but who choose to avoid doctors, instead, to avoid being 'listed'?"  

[Renegade7]

14 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Just out of curiosity, do you know for a fact that he's talking about every medication that lists "may cause drowsiness" as a side effect, or whether he's talking about those medications classified as psychotropic?  

B.  The next logical step is anything that as a side effect a doctor can offer antidepressants.  

[CousinsCowgirl84]

3 week till the next mass shooting is way to long. I’ll take the over, easily. Or is it the under, yea, I’ll take the under there.

 

What do you think the unintended consequences will be of saying you can have a gun unless you are diagnosed as having a mental illness?

Edited June 5, 2019 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Springfield]

4 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Could you tell us how you intend to write a law that will screen out "people who ought to be taking medication for their mental illness, but who choose to avoid doctors, instead, to avoid being 'listed'?"  

 

Nope, which is why I think the whole “mental health” argument (largely made by conservatives) is a giant load of horse **** designed to kick the can and shift the blame.

 

I’m just saying, since take all the guns away, is off the table this is what it’s down to.  Conservatives will only allow a (bull****) discussion about mental health because it’s so incredibly difficult to define and answer objectively that no action will occur.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Springfield

[Renegade7]

 

10 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

I’m not going to pretend to be a psych professional, but do you think that people with paranoid schizophrenia or psychosis should own guns?  People battling depression?  In a general sense, these are the EXACT archetypes for mass murderers.

 

If they are taking drugs to combat these instabilities then that’s great, good for them.  I don’t think that suddenly cures someone and makes them any less of a threat to society.

 

If a person values their right to own a gun over their own mental health then I’d say that is the EXACT type of person who shouldn’t be owing a gun.

You didn't limit your ban to people the doctors actual said were violent that doctors noted were obsessed with violence.  That's the profile for people like Virginia tech and Newtown, would know I was taking medication if I didn't tell you? 

 

People go through bouts they think are depression, are you banned for life?  You will lose the crazies obsessed with violence getting help if you implemented that plan, theyd stop going to their doctor for sure..

Edited June 5, 2019 by Renegade7

[Larry]

3 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Nope, which is why I think the whole “mental health” argument (largely made by conservatives) is a giant load of horse **** designed to kick the can and shift the blame.

 

Oh, I agree with you on that.  I'm certain that the Gun Lobby's position is that they will not permit any action to prevent the next mass shooting, they will only point fingers at "mental health", and say that somebody else should have cured that person before he did it.  

 

[Larry]

16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

B.  The next logical step is anything that as a side effect a doctor can offer antidepressants.  

 

So, in response to me asking if you're certain what another poster is thinking, you announce that you not only know what he's thinking, but you know what he's planning to go after next?  

 

Dang, you're good.  

 

Can you tell us who the next mass shooter's going to be?  

[Springfield]

22 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You didn't limit your ban to people the doctors actual said were violent that doctors noted were obsessed with violence.  That's the profile for people like Virginia tech and Newtown, would know I was taking medication if I didn't tell you? 

 

People go through bouts they think are depression, are you banned for life?  You will lose the crazies obsessed with violence getting help if you implemented that plan, theyd stop going to their doctor for sure..

 

I don’t quite know how to respond.

 

Did I know you we’re taking meds? No, well maybe you announced it in some other thread.  Anyhow, good on you.  I encourage anyone who needs help to seek it out.

 

I don’t know how you sort out the mental health thing, mainly, I was positing what I would suggest if left to the mental

health thing.

 

I think the answer to gun violence in the US is akin to the answer to our national debt.  To solve the debt you need to both cut spending AND increase taxes.  For gun violence, you need to decrease the amount of guns AND solve mental health.

 

 

29 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

What do you think the unintended consequences will be of saying you can have a gun unless you are diagnosed as having a mental illness?

 

People will forgo their mental health so they can own a gun.  It’s dumb, but some would probably do it.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Springfield

[thegreaterbuzzette]

35 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

I’m not going to pretend to be a psych professional, but do you think that people with paranoid schizophrenia or psychosis should own guns?  People battling depression?  In a general sense, these are the EXACT archetypes for mass murderers.

 

Archetypes/profile.....yes. diagnosed.....nope

 

35 minutes ago, Springfield said:

If they are taking drugs to combat these instabilities then that’s great, good for them.  I don’t think that suddenly cures someone and makes them any less of a threat to society.

 

If a person values their right to own a gun over their own mental health then I’d say that is the EXACT type of person who shouldn’t be owing a gun.

 

But that's an impossible conundrums.....unless you find some psych-minority-report tech.

 

28 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

Nope, which is why I think the whole “mental health” argument (largely made by conservatives) is a giant load of horse **** designed to kick the can and shift the blame.

 

I’m just saying, since take all the guns away, is off the table this is what it’s down to.  Conservatives will only allow a (bull****) discussion about mental health because it’s so incredibly difficult to define and answer objectively that no action will occur.

Because the REAL mental health arguement isn't linked to who can and can't purchase/possess guns. The REAL mental health argument is separate from gun control and is a community health initiative. Its removing the stigma, ensuring access to health professionals, and making sure the tools/therapies/prescriptions are available to those who need them.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

So, in response to me asking if you're certain what another poster is thinking, you announce that you not only know what he's thinking, but you know what he's planning to go after next?  

 

Dang, you're good.  

 

Can you tell us who the next mass shooter's going to be?  

 

The motive won't be clear, that's the next trend.

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, Springfield said:

 

People will forgo their mental health so they can own a gun.  It’s dumb, but some would probably do it.

 

Which is why I believe every purchase of a firearm should require a doctor's note saying it's ok for them to have it.  That's far less people told no then a total ban.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Renegade7

[China]

More people in control of their guns:

 

Girl, 8, finds mom’s handgun in backpack at her St. Paul school

 

Police are investigating how a gun ended up in the backpack of an 8-year-old girl at a school in St. Paul’s Payne-Phalen neighborhood.

 

The child was getting ready to go outside and play Monday afternoon when she placed her backpack on the floor and heard a thud, police spokesman Sgt. Mike Ernster said.

 

When the student opened the bag, she found a handgun inside and immediately told her teacher, Ernster said.

 

John A. Johnson Achievement Plus Elementary Principal Lisa Gruenewald responded immediately and secured the gun, she wrote in a letter to parents. She said the incident happened at the end of the school day.

 

“Nobody was threatened; nobody was injured,” Ernster said. “(The girl) told staff she didn’t know there was a gun in her backpack.”

 

Police were sent to the school just after 3 p.m. Monday. Officers found that the 9 mm pistol was loaded but that there was not a round in the chamber, meaning it would not have fired a bullet if someone had only pulled the trigger.

 

The gun belongs to the girl’s mother, Ernster said. The child told police she didn’t know how the gun got into her backpack, and she was released to her mother.

 

Gruenewald noted in the letter that “there are consequences for students in situations like this.”

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

Consequences for students?  Um, shouldn't there be a consequence for the mom?

[twa]

Principles don't have authority over parents, the police take care of that along with others

[LD0506]

I find it amusing/interesting/curious/telling how when the conversation is about guns, then people want to parse the letters, the spaces between the letters, hell, the shoelaces on the molecules of ink in the letters to rationalize exactly why they have a right to their arsenals and their well-deserved latent threat to the neighbors, but when it's a discussion of abortion/ women's rights/etc., everything is thrown overboard and people get tossed screaming under the wheels of dogma and there is no legal minutiae involved, just absolutist stonewalling cuz GAWD sed so!

[twa]

11 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

I find it amusing/interesting/curious/telling how when the conversation is about guns, then people want to parse the letters, the spaces between the letters, hell, the shoelaces on the molecules of ink in the letters to rationalize exactly why they have a right to their arsenals and their well-deserved latent threat to the neighbors, but when it's a discussion of abortion/ women's rights/etc., everything is thrown overboard and people get tossed screaming under the wheels of dogma and there is no legal minutiae involved, just absolutist stonewalling cuz GAWD sed so!

 

I see the opposite there are a bunch of restrictions on gun ownership and use...most violations result in criminal charges.

 

of course if you don't see human lives being taken it is easier to gloss over.

[China]

Baltimore Mayor Young suggests boxing bouts to settle street beefs

 

The day after a teenager was killed and four others were injured in shootings in Baltimore, Mayor Bernard C. “Jack” Young suggested an unconventional approach to preventing gun violence.

 

Mediation is one option to settle disputes that might otherwise erupt into the shootings plaguing the city, he said. Another alternative? Lace up some boxing gloves and slug it out, the mayor suggested.

 

“If they want to really settle them, we can have them down at the Civic Center [now called Royal Farms Arena], put a boxing ring up, let them go and box it out, those kind of things,” Young said. “[May] the best man win, and the beef should be over. Those are some kinds of things I’m thinking about, and hoping that we can get these people to put these guns down.”

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

1 hour ago, China said:

Baltimore Mayor Young suggests boxing bouts to settle street beefs

 

The day after a teenager was killed and four others were injured in shootings in Baltimore, Mayor Bernard C. “Jack” Young suggested an unconventional approach to preventing gun violence.

 

Mediation is one option to settle disputes that might otherwise erupt into the shootings plaguing the city, he said. Another alternative? Lace up some boxing gloves and slug it out, the mayor suggested.

 

“If they want to really settle them, we can have them down at the Civic Center [now called Royal Farms Arena], put a boxing ring up, let them go and box it out, those kind of things,” Young said. “[May] the best man win, and the beef should be over. Those are some kinds of things I’m thinking about, and hoping that we can get these people to put these guns down.”

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

Reminded me of The Wire when Cutty opened up the boxing gym.

 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

edit: wrong thread.

Edited June 12, 2019 by visionary

[visionary]