Why Mike McCarthy is the worst coach in the NFL and why that matters to the Redskins

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Steelers have one of, if not THE, most stable FOs in the league.

Jim Zorn and his sunglasses would've looked intimidating there.

 

Look at their last several drafts. What good is stability when you are drafting stiffs?

[TSO]

Look at their last several drafts. What good is stability when you are drafting stiffs?

Not good at all if they're terrible, of course. But do you doubt they'll get it together, though? When I say "stability", I mean the ability to consistently hire or retain the right people. If you read my ridiculously long post on this, I said "Stability" at the ownership level (since by default they're "stable" in the sense of position), for instance, means that even if the GM/Scouting department level fails they'll be able to replace them properly. They have a philosophy/hiring process that's "football successful". 

And their drafts haven't been complete failures. They've drafted guys like Bell, Martavis Bryant, Tuitt, Heyward, etc... At the very least, they were able to stay in the game yesterday (arguably controlling it the entire time) without their star QB and a ton of coaching errors, right? And it was mainly due to guys like them whom they drafted, right? 

Doesn't that tell you they're doing something right at the top? Anything!? 

 

Still, they lost. Which shows just how vital QB is... but, man, you're extreme on this.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Not good at all if they're terrible, of course. But do you doubt they'll get it together, though? When I say "stability", I mean the ability to consistently hire or retain the right people. "Stability" at the ownership level (since by default they're "stable" in the sense of position), for instance, means that even if the GM/Scouting department level fails they'll be able to replace them properly. They have a philosophy/hiring process that's football successful. 

And their drafts haven't been complete failures. They've drafted guys like Bell, Martavis Bryant, Tuitt, Heyward, etc... At the very least, they were able to stay in the game yesterday (arguably controlling it the entire time) without their star QB and a ton of coaching errors, right? And it was mainly due to guys like them whom they drafted, right? 

Doesn't that tell you they're doing something right at the top? Anything!? 

 

Still, they lost. Which shows just how vital QB is... but, man, you're extreme on this.

 

A lot of this is tongue in cheek. But there is this belief that good teams know what they are doing and bad teams don't. And that good coaches win and that bad coaches lose. (Except Jeff Fisher who everyone considers a genius despite the fact he loses all the freaking time).

 

So much of this is luck. Pure freaking luck.

 

The Steelers didn't know that they were drafting the best receiver in the league with a sixth round pick. If they knew that, they would have taken him much earlier. They just hit the lottery.

 

But when they hit the lottery, everyone says, "Oh...the Rooneys are just better than everyone else......"

 

I actually do think the Steelers are a better organization than most. And I think that helps them not at all if they had drafted Shawn Andrews instead of Roethlisberger like Cowher apparently wanted to do.

 

Their strength, I guess, is that they had a process where Cowher could lose that decision and it not cause the building to burn down.

[TSO]

Their strength, I guess, is that they had a process where Cowher could lose that decision and it not cause the building to burn down.

 

Totally agree. That's really what I've been trying to get at and clearly failing to do, lol. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Totally agree. That's really what I've been trying to get at and clearly failing to do, lol. 

 

And that's clearly where the issues lie with the Skins.

 

ES Legend Art always talks about how Snyder is the best owner in the league because he gives his staff whatever they ask for as soon as they ask for it. I have a problem with that because:

 

1. That can't actually be possible, and

2. There is no multi-person organization, business, enterprise, etc where giving in to every demand from middle management is actually a good plan.

[TSO]

And that's clearly where the issues lie with the Skins.

 

ES Legend Art always talks about how Snyder is the best owner in the league because he gives his staff whatever they ask for as soon as they ask for it. I have a problem with that because:

 

1. That can't actually be possible, and

2. There is no multi-person organization, business, enterprise, etc where giving in to every demand from middle management is actually a good plan.

 

Yup, and furthermore, the hierarchy was corrupt in the first place, so that "middle management" he was supposedly giving into were managing things they clearly shouldn't have been. 

[Peregrine]

A lot of this is tongue in cheek. But there is this belief that good teams know what they are doing and bad teams don't. And that good coaches win and that bad coaches lose. (Except Jeff Fisher who everyone considers a genius despite the fact he loses all the freaking time).

 

So much of this is luck. Pure freaking luck.

 

I completely disagree, the Steelers have 7 losing seasons since 1972.  Thats luck?  The packers havent been much different.  If it was luck then WHY are the Raiders and Browns terrible every year, while the Steelers, Packers etc arent?

 

To say that its evidenced by them waiting until the 6th round to draft Brown is to ignore that they valued Brown higher than any other NFL franchise.  As long as we continue to lie to ourselves and tell ourselves its all luck, and not based on coaching and management the longer this franchise lies in the refuse pit of the NFL.

[TSO]

I completely disagree, the Steelers have 7 losing seasons since 1972.  Thats luck?  The packers havent been much different.  If it was luck then WHY are the Raiders and Browns terrible every year, while the Steelers, Packers etc arent?

 

To say that its evidenced by them waiting until the 6th round to draft Brown is to ignore that they valued Brown higher than any other NFL franchise.  As long as we continue to lie to ourselves and tell ourselves its all luck, and not based on coaching and management the longer this franchise lies in the refuse pit of the NFL.

 

And this is the other side of it that I'm trying to get at, and LKB got to with the last statement in the post you responded to. 

 

I asked, a couple posts ago, how an organization is to go about "getting lucky". This is exactly what I was referring to. 

 

If you set things up properly, sound organizational structure, proper titles and the experts associated with those titles fulfilling their roles, no unwarranted interference within that hierarchy from anyone unless in extreme circumstances, etc...

 

You set yourself up to "get lucky" more than anyone else. LKB is right... a lot of it is luck. But what is "luck"? I personally don't believe that luck is some random force that exists on its own and is separate from effort, perseverance, knowledge, faith, etc... as the saying goes, "you make your own luck".

 

That might sound like I'm saying there is no such thing as luck or fortune. That if you do things right it's going to work out all the time and in every way. I'm not... things do have to "go right" for you and it's easy for solid plans to have major issues while being implemented. But if you stay consistent, keep at it, and continue to do what's right, things will go right more than they go wrong. That process has to be right, though.       

 

If it's not... you're going to be "unlucky". You might have things go your way a little (like a 5 game winning streak at the end of 2005, a 4 game winning streak at the end of 2007 and a 7 game winning streak in 2012), but you'll never be able to sustain it.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I completely disagree, the Steelers have 7 losing seasons since 1972.  Thats luck?  The packers havent been much different.  If it was luck then WHY are the Raiders and Browns terrible every year, while the Steelers, Packers etc arent?

 

Not really...Green Bay sucked for more than 20 years (four winning seasons between 1968-1991) until they got Favre then Rodgers. So, we can all agree that Green Bay is a classy, well-run organization. But it didn't necessarily translate into anything after Lombardi left and before they started trading for/drafting HOF QBs. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I completely disagree, the Steelers have 7 losing seasons since 1972.  Thats luck?  The packers havent been much different.  If it was luck then WHY are the Raiders and Browns terrible every year, while the Steelers, Packers etc arent?

 

To say that its evidenced by them waiting until the 6th round to draft Brown is to ignore that they valued Brown higher than any other NFL franchise.  As long as we continue to lie to ourselves and tell ourselves its all luck, and not based on coaching and management the longer this franchise lies in the refuse pit of the NFL.

 

 

They're better at a lot of things. I'm not really arguing that.

 

Some GMs are better at selecting players than others. Some coaches are marginally better.

 

But so much of this is just increasing your chances in the margins.

 

I don't buy into the Great Man theory of the NFL whether that person is Belichik, Ted Thompson, or Scotty Mac (whose name I really need to learn how to spell).

 

I also don't really believe in "systems" or offensive or defensive geniuses.

 

Based on numbers I am making up right now, 80 percent of the NFL is a wash because everyone is the same, 15 percent is the marginal differences between my players and your players, and maybe 5 percent is coaching genius - except last night which was insane.

And this is the other side of it that I'm trying to get at, and LKB got to with the last statement in the post you responded to. 

 

I asked, a couple posts ago, how an organization is to go about "getting lucky". This is exactly what I was referring to. 

 

If you set things up properly, sound organizational structure, proper titles and the experts associated with those titles fulfilling their roles, no unwarranted interference within that hierarchy from anyone unless in extreme circumstances, etc...

 

You set yourself up to "get lucky" more than anyone else. LKB is right... a lot of it is luck. But what is "luck"? I personally don't believe that luck is some random force that exists on its own and is separate from effort, perseverance, knowledge, faith, etc... as the saying goes, "you make your own luck".

 

That might sound like I'm saying there is no such thing as luck or fortune. That if you do things right it's going to work out all the time and in every way. I'm not... things do have to "go right" for you and it's easy for solid plans to have major issues while being implemented. But if you stay consistent, keep at it, and continue to do what's right, things will go right more than they go wrong. That process has to be right, though.       

 

If it's not... you're going to be "unlucky". You might have things go your way a little (like a 5 game winning streak at the end of 2005, a 4 game winning streak at the end of 2007 and a 7 game winning streak in 2012), but you'll never be able to sustain it.  

 

But I feel like the Steelers prove this.

 

They were extremely mediocre in the 80s. They were pretty good in the 90s. They seemed to be on the decline a bit. And then - oops - here's a Hall of Fame QB that they nearly passed over. And now they have two more Super Bowl titles.

 

I also feel like you can't have this conversation without discussing Al Davis. He was the greatest visionary genius in NFL history for 25 years. And a total loon for 25 years despite the fact that he was pretty much always doing the exact same thing.

[zoony]

Remember when everyone would talk about the genius of Dick Lebeau? Good times

I guess he forgot how to coach in 2 years

[TSO]

They're better at a lot of things. I'm not really arguing that.

 

Some GMs are better at selecting players than others. Some coaches are marginally better.

 

But so much of this is just increasing your chances in the margins.

 

I don't buy into the Great Man theory of the NFL whether that person is Belichik, Ted Thompson, or Scotty Mac (whose name I really need to learn how to spell).

 

I also don't really believe in "systems" or offensive or defensive geniuses.

 

Based on numbers I am making up right now, 80 percent of the NFL is a wash because everyone is the same, 15 percent is the marginal differences between my players and your players, and maybe 5 percent is coaching genius - except last night which was insane.

 

But I feel like the Steelers prove this.

 

They were extremely mediocre in the 80s. They were pretty good in the 90s. They seemed to be on the decline a bit. And then - oops - here's a Hall of Fame QB that they nearly passed over. And now they have two more Super Bowl titles.

 

I also feel like you can't have this conversation without discussing Al Davis. He was the greatest visionary genius in NFL history for 25 years. And a total loon for 25 years despite the fact that he was pretty much always doing the exact same thing.

 

But is finding a QB all about luck? Is there a process there that increases your chances? 

 

I mean, let's say drafting/trading for/acquiring a great QB is as based on chance/luck as buying a lottery ticket. Logic dictates that if you increase the amount of lottery tickets you buy, you increase your chances, right? 

 

So is there a process you could put in place to increase your likelihood of acquiring a great QB?

 

I'd say, yes. The FO being sound and, therefore, the process being sound; the amount of resources willingly spent on the position; the system of development; the patience to stick with them and the wisdom to know when to move on. All of this increases your "luck" in finding one.

 

This is a big reason why the benching of RG3 last month was a huge positive in my mind. Not because of Kirk, necessarily, though I do see the potential there... but because sound organizations know when to move on and not continue to force the issue. It also showed there was a "process" there that should exist, structurally (though it may have been forced to occur, knowing that report from Dianna that was released).

 

I think it's clear that we'll be spending resources on QB next offseason, unless Kirk just goes off. But, even then, Scot recently came from Seattle where they simply threw numbers at the position until they hit on one.

 

I'm hoping we see a continuance of that.     

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

But is finding a QB all about luck? Is there a process there that increases your chances? 

 

 

 

Look around the league and tell me what you think.

 

Parcells didn't want to play Romo. To be honest, I can't be bothered to see if Parcells was the one who even picked him.

Brady is the luckiest pick in the history of sports possibly.

Roethlisberger was taken after two admittedly pretty good QBs. And he was nearly passed over for a tackle because Tommy Maddox was in the middle of a long contract.

Rodgers was passed over by everyone.

No one wanted Brees in free agency expect Miami and he nearly went there.

Manning and Luck were obvious overall #1s....and people debated on Manning.

No one on earth saw Wilson being this.

 

And that's pretty much it, right?

 

There's like 8 guys you would want, which gives you a 1 in 4 shot and even then everyone screws it up.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Remember when everyone would talk about the genius of Dick Lebeau? Good times

I guess he forgot how to coach in 2 years

 

Wait, is he coaching? I thought he retired/died...not joking. 

[TSO]

Enjoying this conversation immensely, by the way. Thanks to everyone involved.

Except, LKB. That guy is stoobid.

Wait, is he coaching? I thought he retired/died...not joking.

He's with the Titans now serving as Assistant Head Coach/Defense.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Wait, is he coaching? I thought he retired/died...not joking. 

 

He basically got fired and now coaches for the Titans.

[bird_1972]

That feeling is absolutely grounded in reality. Only the hardest of the core still feel the need too pretend that this organization hasn't been a dysfunctional mess since Snyder took over. 30 years from now when we're once again finishing last in the division, the few remaining deniers who are unfortunate enough to still be alive will be saying how it's just a matter of time, how we're on the right track this time, how Dan is learning, how they can't wait until we're good so we can stick it to the media, etc

 

I love that you've listed in your last sentence the standby excuses for all of the apologists ... they read like a familiar novel.

 

Agree that the organization will only improve once (if) Snyder is suddenly able to develop a sense of self awareness. Somehow I doubt he possesses the intellectual wisdom to reach that epiphany.

[SWFLSkins]

20 years of rule changes has made a league that is unfairly handicapped towards the teams lucky enough to get their guy.  You can't touch a receiver or its pass interference.  You have to turn your head or its pass interference.  You can't touch the QB or its roughing the passer.  And if you do touch the QB, it has to be in the waist, otherwise it's a blow to the head (roughing) or going low (roughing).  You can't hit a receiver once he stretches out for the ball (defenseless receiver)

 

What this has led to, in addition to the 4 hours of commercials they squeeze into a 3 hour game, is an unwatchable product.  I do not watch football anymore, I'm completely done.  I do watch the Redskins, but I'm teetering there.  It's just a crappy game anymore.

I sit there and some times wonder whether it is worth the time, now you can also add the curious and intensive involvement including cross promotion with FanDuel and Draftkings. The are gaming sites and now the NFL is sponsoring them by allowing them to advertise and list player stats with their values listed. I, like you don't watch most other games unless there is nothing else to watch or something to do, which is UNPossible.....lol. 

 

I love the Redskins, why I don't know, nostalgia I guess. 

[zoony]

I sit there and some times wonder whether it is worth the time, now you can also add the curious and intensive involvement including cross promotion with FanDuel and Draftkings. The are gaming sites and now the NFL is sponsoring them by allowing them to advertise and list player stats with their values listed. I, like you don't watch most other games unless there is nothing else to watch or something to do, which is UNPossible.....lol. 

 

I love the Redskins, why I don't know, nostalgia I guess. 

 

 

I actually had a Fan Duel "app" take over my TV during a broadcast on Sunday Ticket.  I guess we now have pop-ups for Smart TVs'

 

Thanks Goodell 

[RandyHolt]

I almost tossed a beer through my 1 day old smart ass TV when in week 1 1st quarter, a fantasy app appeared on the screen blocking pretty much where the camera had the QB. There was no X to close, no dont show me this ****ty app again, nothing. It kept re-appearing every 10 minutes, and would go away in 2. 

 

Of course the 55" weighs about 5 pounds and the speaker on my 40 year old alarm clock sounds better, but hey, HD something.

[zoony]

I almost tossed a beer through my 1 day old smart ass TV when in week 1 1st quarter, a fantasy app appeared on the screen blocking pretty much where the camera had the QB. There was no X to close, no dont show me this ****ty app again, nothing. It kept re-appearing every 10 minutes, and would go away in 2. 

 

Of course the 55" weights about 5 pounds and the speaker on my 40 year old alarm clock sounds better, but hey, HD something.

 

 

Don't forget, we never get true HD... too much bandwidth.  Watered down directv garbage.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Note to self: Don't ES while drunk.

My post count would be somewhere in the 300s.

[The Consigliere]

The Packers had been in the 4th and goal at the 1 situation on more than one occasion during the regular season. They went for it and it didn't work out. Ever. The Seahawks are a team with a stingy defense and the idea was to take the points you can. I fully supported the decision to kick the field-goals in real-time with how the Packers fared in that situation throughout the season.

You are going to anecdotal evidence to argue why math doesn't matter, and logic doesn't matter. The packers had fourth and goal within inches of a TD, within a yard of a TD, at the 22 yard line and in the 4th quarter as well. In each chance he eschewed math and logic, and instead went with conservative play calling that actually isn't logically conservative since it was more risky than actually going for it on any of those instances (save the fourth quarter opportunity). It was the wrong decision, across the board. It's old tired thinking from coaches that are habitually fearful of anything except the old standard playbook of cliché's for football. We have math, science and logic now, we should know better, but these coaches don't.

 

He's not the only one and it's embarrassing. You may support it, but you're wrong based on the math.

[Riggo-toni]

Actually, Tomlin may be the future of coaching. That guy rocks the press conference. He looks great arguing with the officials. No one throws the challenge flag with more aplomb.

Dude's gotta do something to keep busy since Fox cancelled House.

[The Consigliere]

That feeling is absolutely grounded in reality. Only the hardest of the core still feel the need too pretend that this organization hasn't been a dysfunctional mess since Snyder took over. 30 years from now when we're once again finishing last in the division, the few remaining deniers who are unfortunate enough to still be alive will be saying how it's just a matter of time, how we're on the right track this time, how Dan is learning, how they can't wait until we're good so we can stick it to the media, etc

 

The thing that's sad is that Snyder has been such a cataclysmic disaster that people habitually forget that we were a complete nightmarish dumpster fire in 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, and 1998 without him. JKC's son was god awful as well (though not a loathesome creature as Snyder is), and the team suffered it's ugliest loss ever in 1993 when they lost 3-0 to the Jets. 1994 was one of those, "are we the worst team in the league?" seasons, 1995 was incrementally better, 1996 was the horrific choke year (7-2 start, 2-5 finish, miss the playoffs), 1997 was Gus headbutting the wall and knocking himself out of the game w/everything on the line, embarrassing losses abounded, the first half of 1998 was the worst redskins team I have ever seen, somehow, as per usual, they couldn't even get losing for draft slotting right, turning it around after an 0-7 start.

 

2000-2015 has been so god awful that the origins of the collapse, now 23 years and still going, have been totally forgotten and those origins were the horrible Norv years, that tells you something.

 

I had no hope until McC was hired. Other than Gibbs II's start 11 years ago, I've never had any hope till now, but I still fully expect us to be awful for a while. A lot needs fixing.