I Want Cousins To Start 16 Games This Fall

[VRIEL1]

Are you also going to compare INTs dropped by the other teams' D? I understand what you're getting at, but if fumbles were treated like INTs (only count when it's truly a TO), then it's a more straight-up comparison. Either one is a QB giving the other team a shot at the ball, but only 1 gets officially counted. And a fumble we might have lost in a pile wouldn't be as devastating as a pick-6 that the other guy didn't drop on the turf.

 

I mean, Brady's a super-elite QB, but his TD:INT ratio wouldn't look as shiny if somebody kept track of how many dropped INTs other teams had and included that in some kind of "potential INT" column.

 

If I understand  you correctly ... no. I'm not. All I did was go and look at QB stats during their games. basically INT's and Fumbles. What the team record was 3 games in and if the team scored above 20 points or not. I can't go back and look to see how many dropped INT's RG3 had during those games. Atleast I don't think I can. I've recorded this season and could do that for Cousins but it would be unfair to compare if I don't have RG3's. 

 

If your referring to other QB's this year? I would have the same arguement. I don't have video to count all the dropped INT's that were potential INT's. 

 

I've said time and time again......I AM NOT SAYING COUSINS IS A TOP 5 QB. 

 

Could he become that? IDK, maybe? If given time maybe. Maybe not. 

 

But all I hear on the radio is "Cousins and his INT's...we need to bench him", and see in message boards "Cousins and his INT's... we need to bench him." If INT's are the stat that which we are judging QB's all I am doing is pointing out all the other QB's whom have INT's also and equal to more INT's then Cousins. 

 

My judgment is based off how the team actually performs as a team. How well they look as a team. Are they moving the ball well. Is there a nice mix of run/pass ratio. Are the mistakes limited as in WR's dropping balls, RB's fumbling, CB's defending the pass, DL stopping the run, penalties, etc. etc. although they lost against Miami the team looked better then the previous 2 years. They kinda reminded me of the 80's with Gibbs1. The second game they looked at lot better. Moving the ball, controlling the clock, eliminating the penalties and mistakes. Then the Giants game .... they as a whole team crapped the bed. 

[VRIEL1]

I yearn for the day when we are talking about how many game winning drives, how many comebacks to win in the last two minutes, how many wins the QB, whoever that is, has led the team to. Alas, we are encouraged to be patient, while we endure comparisons with poor times of other QBs. 13 more games of this? I hope not. I hope Cousins gets his act together soon.

 

Some blame Cousins. How much is actually him and how much is on the WR? I'll take 2 INT's or less a game as long as the team is winning. No one complained about PManning last year I believe the same weekend Cousins melted down and had 5 INT's, PManning had 4 and lost his game. Not a word spoken of PManning. How about Luck this year? He has 7 INT's at this point. I know he has led his team to the playoffs but we have not given Cousins enough games to do that. Cousins has gotten to play sporadically each year. Give him 16 games and lets see what we got in him. 

 

The other thing we could do is simply have fun with it and screw with our opponants.....Play Cousins one half and McCoy the other half. lol. Switch it up, don't let the opponants know who is starting the first half. lol. Atleast there would be a fresh QB arm on the field each half. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

The team in the last two games put up over 20 points. Garbage points or not IDK but the team scored over 20 points. Only the first game against Miami did they score under 20 points. 

We're 26th in the league in scoring. We're scoring 18.3 points per game (make that 16 minus the Special Teams TD) against teams that are giving up an average of 26.3 against their other opponents. 

 

To point at the number of games where we crossed the arbitrary threshold of 20 points as if it means something seems....... well, let's call it silly.

[NoCalMike]

Cousins's INTs vs. Miami wouldn't be as big an issue had he been able to foster some kind of drive late in the game to tie the game. Same with the Giants game early on, Despite his early INT and overall mediocre-ness, the game was plenty close for a good awhile. 

 

However it's the fact that given the multiple chances after his INTs, he doesn't do much with it. Two games so far, one was close to the end, and the other was close for a half.  Cousins didn't do much with either. 

 

I think what we as a fanbase should figure out is if we'd rather be a team that can eventually win with a QB like Cousins, wait for another five seasons or so for the GM to hopefully build us into another Seattle/San Francisco proto-type, where the QB merely has to "exist on the team" or would we rather make finding a franchise QB a priority so that every other aspect of the team doesn't have to be damn near perfect week in and week out in order to come away with wins.

[TSO]

But all I hear on the radio is "Cousins and his INT's...we need to bench him", and see in message boards "Cousins and his INT's... we need to bench him." If INT's are the stat that which we are judging QB's all I am doing is pointing out all the other QB's whom have INT's also and equal to more INT's then Cousins.

And therein lies the problem, VRIEL. You're allowing one side's extreme negativity, though they're a minority (as loud as they can be, lol), force you to counter with another extreme where you downplay anything Kirk does and excuse him in the most unnecessary of ways. This is what happened with Robert in so many instances.

Then so many end up piling on because you're going way overboard with it yourself.

This is the type of discussion we've been desperately trying to avoid here. Countering one extreme with another is not going to get anyone anywhere, and all it does is create more dissension and "side-taking" as opposed to healthy debate and discussion.

Don't take this as an attack on you, brother. I can tell you pretty much every Mod sees the overboard criticism directed towards Kirk, and from whom. But you can't go overboard the other way... some of the points you've made in your recent posts here show an extreme bias and an inability to be fair in your assessments.

Now look at the responses you've generated from the amount of posters (not directed at anyone who responded, most were valid responses)... if your intention was to counter the negativity, you've failed and likely increased it, since it would motivate the other extreme to respond more than anything else.

I'm going to ask everyone to stop this right now. Don't see why it's even worth pushing it, further. Clearly, VRIEL is going to an extreme here... just leave it alone. There is no need to pile on. This is a mod directive, by the way.

We can resume discussing Kirk's play in a balanced manner. It doesn't always have to be reduced to an RG3 vs Kirk dichotomy nor a "should we bench him/how much patience" narrative. We don't have to be extremists and excuse everything he's done thus far, and we don't have to make 100 posts nitpicking every issue he's had and pointing out/piling on when anyone excuses him as if that's blasphemy.

Let's talk about specific plays. Let's bring some gifs in here. Let's analyze more closely without applying any speculative assumptions about the future. We can make this enjoyable instead of confrontational, fellas.

[GhostofSparta]

If I understand  you correctly ... no. I'm not. All I did was go and look at QB stats during their games. basically INT's and Fumbles. 

I understand that. I was just pointing out the disadvantage scrambling QBs have when comparing stats, simply because a fumble that RG3 picks back up without an issue counts as a fumble, but a throw that Cousins makes right into a defender's chest that he drops for any number of reasons (wasn't ready for it, looked upfield before making a catch, etc.) is simply an incomplete pass. While I certainly understand the value of looking at the stats (averaging 1 fumble per game will catch up after a while and even out who recovers), it would also be helpful to see that Cousins has 5 INTs on the year, but there were another 4 (or whatever) that were dropped by the other teams' D.

 

I wasn't accusing you of over-valuing Cousins. And don't take me for an RG3 fanboy. I just know I hate having my heart jump into my throat once a game when our QB almost hand-delivers a ball to an opposing DB and hoping like hell he'll drop it. Of course, I also really hate it when the other QB throws a pass that looks like it's intended for one of our QBs and have the guy drop it with nobody between him and the endzone. We must lead the league in dropped INTs (another masochistic reason I want that to be a stat, to see how right/wrong I am about that).

 

Cousins is the starter. I want him to win games. But the simple fact is: Tom Brady throwing 50 times and running once is more likely to throw an INT, while Russel Wilson throwing 20 times and running 15 is more likely to fumble. Just the nature of their play that leads to different probabilities.

[Ghost of]

Edit: I realize I'm tired and repeating myself a bit. I'll wait to respond to something more thoughtfully.

[KokoMike]

In my opinion, Cousins has shown a lack of game sense. I remember him throwing the ball away on fourth down late in a game we could still win, and trotting off the field like it was nothing. Game over. This past week, he wasted a minute taking his time late in the game. There are many other examples.

Does he have any killer instinct? I want to see him lead in a crisis, and succeed. I want to see him excel at the moment of truth, and succeed.

Right now, in my opinion, the book is still open as to whether he is closer to John Beck or Jason Campbell.

[Veryoldschool]

Some here want Griffin who doesn't really understand the concepts of the WCO to start instead of Cousins who clearly does understand things and functions but makes foolish mistakes a couple of times a game. I'd rather invest the time trying develop Cousins who might become average or even better with enough experience. I expect he'll have a few bad games like NY and more so-so games like Miami with hopefully several good games like STL this season.

The NY games was another data point not a defining movement. Cousins critics can carp all they want and pine for their clueless hero Griffin but I'd prefer to watch Cousins 13 more times and hope he shows enough progress that Scot can extend him and invest the top picks in improving the supporting cast.

[GhostofSparta]

I'd prefer to watch Cousins 13 more times...

How about just 12 more times, and we let literally anybody else play QB against New York?

[DJHJR86]

I advocate giving Cousins the full season, and it has nothing to do with comparing the patience this franchise had with Griffin.  It simply comes down to this is Cousins first year as the starter, and not a backup filling in for one, and I'd like to see if he could show signs of progress or improvement.  

[Skin'emAlive]

Some here want Griffin who doesn't really understand the concepts of the WCO to start instead of Cousins who clearly does understand things and functions but makes foolish mistakes a couple of times a game. I'd rather invest the time trying develop Cousins who might become average or even better with enough experience.

 

Both points have elements of truth to them. Griffin doesnt have a great pocket presence in the WCO, which sometimes results in him taking (viscious) hits. But that doesnt necessarily lose the game. However, 2 Turnovers from the quarterback per game will result in a loss just about every single time. The two turnovers have proven to be habitual at this point.

[zoony]

Quick opinion on the Giants game, I agree with Chris Russell.  There is no spinning that performance, Cousins just looked awful the entire game.

 

Really, I've not seen his accuracy look that bad in a long time.  Cousins has been known for poor decision making, but by and large he throws a pretty good football.  That Giants game he just looked bad.  I guess anyone can have a bad game... I've sat through dozens of bad QB games with this team, what's one more.

 

At this point give Cousins the entire season.  If he sucks, fine.  We get a high pick.  If he improves, well, that's good.

[ZRagone]

-Sorry, read his post...responded to it...and then read the rest of the thread and just saw TSO's post. Editing this out to comply with the moderator demand to not respond-

[TimmySmith]

Both points have elements of truth to them. Griffin doesnt have a great pocket presence in the WCO, which sometimes results in him taking (viscious) hits. But that doesnt necessarily lose the game. However, 2 Turnovers from the quarterback per game will result in a loss just about every single time. The two turnovers have proven to be habitual at this point.

Griffin had 6 picks and 7 fumbles in 7 games, with 4 TDs thrown.  2 TOs and less than 1 TD per game = 1 - 5.  Given that, wouldn't you rather have the 10 TDs that Cousins threw?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Re: fumbles not lost vs dropped interceptions:

 

On average, a QB is gonna have a ****load more interceptable passes than fumbles. So if anyone wants to start adding on "turnovers that aren't really turnovers" Cousins will end up on the losing end of that argument as well.

[GoDeep81]

It's a fun debate and we can want and hope to see Cousins all 16 games all we want, but if he keeps averaging 4 picks every 3 games, he won't make it to the half way point.. (Well, unless we can overcome and win while he's doing it, but I don't see that happening either)

 

I think the staff will give him a fair chance, but 8 games is probably the limit unless he figures out how NOT to throw the INT so often..

[ZRagone]

Guys...check out TheSubmittedOne's post above. Enough with the Cousins vs Griffin talk for the moment

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Guys...check out TheSubmittedOne's post above. Enough with the Cousins vs Griffin talk for the moment

 

I was talking about the merits of including fumbles that aren't lost and INTs that were dropped as a way of measuring QB effectiveness. Doing so doesn't help an argument for how well Cousins has been performing, even if no other QB was on the roster.

[illone]

But all I hear on the radio is "Cousins and his INT's...we need to bench him", and see in message boards "Cousins and his INT's... we need to bench him." If INT's are the stat that which we are judging QB's all I am doing is pointing out all the other QB's whom have INT's also and equal to more INT's then Cousins. 

 

 

I haven't heard that AT ALL, even here in this thread.  I hear people concerned about the future of the team with him under center, and I hear people wondering what the next step is if he does keep playing this way, but I am not hearing anything close to what you are posting here.  This is not a "Cousins vs RG3" debate, I think this has everything to do with fans wanting to win NOW, not next year, not five years from now.  NOW!

 

If Cousins keeps playing like he did against the Gmen, then perhaps we will start hearing cries to bench him, but honestly where have you heard this?  Please tell me a post, or poster who has openly said he needs to go?

Ok I just read TSO's post above.

 

Good call, and I agree with everything you said.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

This is not a "Cousins vs RG3" debate, I think this has everything to do with fans wanting to win NOW, not next year, not five years from now.  NOW!

 

For me, it's not even wanting to win now--er, NOW lol...

 

I'm still in the mode I was in during the offseason, training camp and preseason: I want to see improvement. Consistent improvement. We're too early in the season to know if the areas of improvement we've seen in different areas of the team qualifies as consistent improvement or if it's just a good couple of games. We're also still too early in the season to know whether or not Cousins specifically can or will show consistent improvement. Right now, though, I'm not sure how much improvement he has truly shown, if any. Which is why my viewpoint is that he needs to start showing improvement, and soon. Then he needs to show that improvement is a consistent part of his production and not just a good game.

[TimmySmith]

Re: fumbles not lost vs dropped interceptions:

 

On average, a QB is gonna have a ****load more interceptable passes than fumbles. So if anyone wants to start adding on "turnovers that aren't really turnovers" Cousins will end up on the losing end of that argument as well.

I guess the only end of a winning argument for Cousins is TD passes and TD/INT % over the past 300 throws. 

 

Griffin does have 2012, my goodness yes, he has 2012.

[illone]

I'm still in the mode I was in during the offseason, training camp and preseason: I want to see improvement. Consistent improvement. We're too early in the season to know if the areas of improvement we've seen in different areas of the team qualifies as consistent improvement or if it's just a good couple of games. We're also still too early in the season to know whether or not Cousins specifically can or will show consistent improvement. Right now, though, I'm not sure how much improvement he has truly shown, if any. Which is why my viewpoint is that he needs to start showing improvement, and soon. Then he needs to show that improvement is a consistent part of his production and not just a good game.

 

 

I definitely agree.  I should qualify my post further.

 

By win now I didn't mean literally WIN NOW, like win the division and make the playoffs.  I mean win more than we did last year, show steady improvement, play hard, stop making bone headed (typical Redskins football over the past two decades) mistakes, and play to win.  I certainly don't expect this team to contend this year, and I dont think any rational fan does either.  I dont recall my exact prediction before the season started but I think I voted for 6-8 wins, which would assume a small but noticeable improvement over last year.

[Drastik]

Based on what we've seen so far this year, Cousins has proven to be a game manager capable QB with a penchant for turnovers.

 

It seems like Cousin's ceiling right now is that is Alex Smith or Ryan Fitzpatrick, and that's when Cousins has a "great game" by his and several members of this forum standards (see: Week 2).

 

Cousins is a very likable guy with a great personality. Here is my problem with him as a QB. He is scared of the physicality of the game. A good number of Cousins bad throws and mistakes are a result of him feeling pressure and trying to get rid of the ball so he won't get touched. It's like he's genuinely scared of any form of contact. The second missed TD throw to Jordan Reed was a prime example. Instead of stepping into the throw and taking a clean hit from a defender like you would expect an NFL QB to do, Cousins sees a free defender and knows he doesn't want to get hit so he floats a noodle up in the air that honestly should have been intercepted. It's that type of play that frustrates me as a Redskins fan. Throwing a 1 yard pass on 2nd and 10 and then doing the same thing on 3rd and 9 is the type of play that frustrates me as a Redskins fan.

 

Additionally, I wish folks would stop saying "give Cousins a fair chance". We did that last year. Gruden had every intention of running with Cousins as his QB for the entirety of the 2014 season. Every intention. Cousins screwed that up himself with dismal performances against NYG, Arizona, and Tennessee and forced Gruden to bring in Colt McCoy. 

 

We as fans are also growing weary of Gruden's obvious favoritism for Kirk. After each loss this season, Gruden has publicly thrown players under the bus in attempt to defend bad play or decisions by Kirk. Week 1 it was Jordan Reed, and week 3 it's Pierre Garcon. How do you think it helps morale of the team when your QB makes a mistake but your coach goes to the media and calls you out for it? These are two of our best offensive players by the way, far more valuable than Kirk Cousins. This is very bad for team chemistry and makes Gruden look "amateurish". 

 

Bottom line here is Cousin's needs to do better. Period. We can make excuses and side arguments all we want but the bottom line is that Cousin's just has not shown the ability to get the job done. Hopefully he improves, starting with the return of DeSean Jackson this week. 

[NoCalMike]

Honest question:  Does the current events within our division change anything?  Do you think the coaches/GM look at Dallas being injury-ravaged, Philly stinking it up, etc etc etc....and think "Well hey, maybe 9-7 wins the NFC East this year, every team is in it, we should do everything we can to try and compete in a bad division" or do you think the big picture is always the #1 priority?

 

Does this change how big of a leash you give the starting QB if you feel his play is holding the team back?

 

Obviously this team was not built to compete this year, or at least no one thought so before the first snap of Week 1, but things happen, doors open, opportunities present themselves.