Taylor703 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I guess my response is that two professional coaching staffs seem to see things differently than you. I see the offense much more proficient with Cousins playing. He is the best we have. Let him develop or show that he won't. That will take more than 3 more games. I would argue its not leaving Cousins in that gives the season up, its putting in one of the other guys that admits the season is over. Well, I'm saying for a 2 win difference I'd ride Kirk to give the maximum chance of turning the corner. Putting in an equal or worse guy in the hopes of sparking an extra meaningless win does nothing. That's all. But why does Kirk have the maximum chance of turning the corner? What have you seen, other than getting the ball out quicker, from Kirk that makes you think he has potential? He throws behind receivers. He's missed on every deep pass we've thrown this year. He throws picks and pre-determines where he's going with the ball. What is it? What am I missing that makes people think he's the best we have? I'm not even trying to be a jerk, I genuinely want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Well, I'm saying for a 2 win difference I'd ride Kirk to give the maximum chance of turning the corner. Putting in an equal or worse guy in the hopes of sparking an extra meaningless win does nothing. That's all. I know, I was mostly joking lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 r You honestly think the team would be willing to wave the white flag and tank the season by Week 6 if Cousins keeps looking awful? Nah, not likely. Best case scenario is Cousins actually looks like a decent QB in the next 2 or 3 weeks so that all of this chatter can go away. The more realistic scenario is to see Colt or Bob under center by the bye week. By then, Kirk may well have ruined this season already, same as he did in the 2014 season. "You honestly think the team would be willing to wave the white flag and tank the season by Week 6 if Cousins keeps looking awful?" Perfectly said I just think its unreal that a team that honestly has an opportunity to be in the division race would just throw it away by playing a guy who if he continues to throw multiple pick games is not going to be here next year.....period. If he does it for another game or two like that in the next few games and we lose how can't you pull him as in honesty your ......because Gruden said this is Kirk's team, because he looked good in the preseason. If they would continue on the same path you might as well say fans don't bother buying tickets, as well as telling everyone else on the team you don't matter. I like Kirk and would like him to succeed but that light is dimming quick. Its unfortunate to see as it would be great for us if he succeeds and great for himself, but if he can't make it happened then he can't make it happen. Then we will have abandoned potential development (which admittedly may not happen) for two guys that are not better than who is currently playing. Nothing to gain. No improvement will happen. Any extra, freak win, meaningless. We watched it last year. There is no serious alternative on the team. Please don't mistake that as a glorious endorsement of Cousins. He is the best we have, and not near as bad as some make him out to be. He is the only one still with potential to turn the corner. I think a lot of people fail to realize this. It's not I'm a believer that Cousins will become Brady. It's just he is the best we have at this time. Unless a miracle occurs we will be searching for a new starting QB next season. The player development and best option arguments are just meaningless to me. From a player development standpoint Kirk really should have been the one to get the most out of the development. He's suited for this offense it makes sense to he and Gruden but for whatever reason (likely pressure) he can't make it happen during the regular season so far. This is now twice that he really has been given a golden chance to never give the job up so if he continues to perform the way he has its on him, and nothing more needs to be said. The best option argument is the same issues in a lot of ways. Gruden himself talks about the need to perform (likely the only thing he's been consistent with that we've seen). Giving the job to the "supposed" best option makes little sense if the best option is keeping us from having any chance at winning. Additionally what do we know for certain about the other two, this season? I understand those who don't like Griffin but we don't know what he can do in year 2 in this offense.......we simply don't. It was said Kirk beat him out during the preseason but Griffin got a concussion and saw very limited action even in the first preseason game which was Grudens decision. Cousin looked good but there is no correlation to that and the regular season.....none, zip, That was a major argument last year and major reason why Kirk got an extended look last year but the end result was not to good and got worse and worse until the plug had to be pulled. As far as McCoy, same thing we don't know what he can do in year 2 in this offense...have we seen it in a live game. We know he's not the long term answer (he likely knows if he's honest with himself) but is it out of the question that he could just play average with limited turnovers and give us a reasonable shot to be in........I personally don't think it's out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 My opinion: Keep Kirk in unless he's injured. Gruden told us Kirk's his guy for the season. So let him have his season and we end up with the record we end up with. I'm not holding my breath. Time to go over to the 2016 Draft Choice thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 If Kirk doesn't turn things around by the end of the season, he and Gruden will likely be gone anyway, which means new QB, new Coach, new offense is coming in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I've yet to see evidence that he's the best option. If anything, Colt McCoy has shown to be the best option right now...but this season always seemed to be about evaluating who could be a long-term solution, Cousins or Griffin...and whether we should look elsewhere next season. If neither is the answer I'd rather start McCoy. Correct (in my opinion, of course). I think Cousins should start until Gruden and McCloughan believe they've seen enough to believe he's not going to become the long-term starter. If our record is still decent at that time and the rest of the division hasn't run away from us, I would go with Colt to close out the season. I think he is actually the best immediate solution. If we are out of the race at that point, I don't really care about who plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Here's a question, just for ****s and giggles lol... Right now--this very minute--you HAVE to keep one person and immediately cut ties with the other two: - Griffin - Cousins - Gruden Which one do you pick? EDIT: assume the season is over--3 game season, folks lol...and that Griffin will NOT get $16 million next year. Cousins and Griffin will both get whatever amount you feel is acceptable. Nobody has answered this yet lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Why? So we could maybe win a couple more games? I'd rather be 3-13 than 6-10. I agree with you about evaluating who could be the long term solution. That's the point of riding Kirk. In that case, I'd be fine riding Cousins all the way through the season. It's the (admittedly unlikely) scenario that we're still playing for something despite bad QB play. Let's say that, for example, the following plays out: We get through 10 games at 5-5 even though Cousins doesn't show any progress. It seems impossible, but with our running game and improved defense it could happen. We could run the ball 50 times this Sunday in the hurricane and win. We could beat teams like the Jets, Bucs, and Saints while losing to the Patriots, Panthers, and Falcons. So, we're 5-5 and no one else is better than 6-4 in the division...combine that with Cousins not taking that next step over a pretty generous 10-game sample size. I think in a case like that, you have to put McCoy in to see if he provides a spark. If we're 2-8 at the time, I don't really care and would secretly be fine with tanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Shanny continues to go to bat for Kirk. Sheehan today said he talked to Shanny last night for 30 minutes, the conversation veered to Kirk and Shanny told him remember when some would say that Kyle got the job because of nepotism and his record didn't stand on its own, those people were proven wrong. Likewise, if the Redskins let Kirk go to another team, Kirk will likewise prove that those who doubted him were mistaken. He said you need to have patience with a young QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Nobody has answered this yet lol... I don't know why, but I'd still keep Cousins just because 1) he has the tools (size, arm, etc.) to be a NFL QB and 2) I don't 100% know yet that he won't. But if we were playing a do-or-die game this Sunday and had to win for a playoff berth, I'd feel most comfortable with McCoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Shanny continues to go to bat for Kirk. Sheehan today said he talked to Shanny last night for 30 minutes, the conversation veered to Kirk and Shanny told him remember when some would say that Kyle got the job because of nepotism and his record didn't stand on its own, those people were proven wrong. Likewise, if the Redskins let Kirk go to another team, Kirk will likewise prove that those who doubted him were mistaken. He said you need to have patience with a young QB. I'm sure he meant "young" in terms of experience but the dude's 27 years old lol...that ain't young in the NFL. I don't know why, but I'd still keep Cousins just because 1) he has the tools (size, arm, etc.) to be a NFL QB and 2) I don't 100% know yet that he won't. But if we were playing a do-or-die game this Sunday and had to win for a playoff berth, I'd feel most comfortable with McCoy. Well you're in luck because you can keep both! lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 - Griffin - Cousins - Gruden Cop out answer: Whichever one McCloughan has the most confidence in of that group Personal Answer: Likely Gruden. I don't think Cousins is the long term answer and I don't really think Griffin is likely able to be that here going forward either even if he is able to do it elsewhere. At least with Gruden you maintain the offense and consistency in place with the rest of the team as you then look for your next QB. But really, I'm glad it's just a hypothetical, because if honestly faced with a situation that only has that single variable, there's really no right answer. Change one or two little variables to the hypothetical and the answer can change. --------- Actually, just saw it was for right this moment. Gruden, without a doubt, would be the answer. I don't think either guy, right this moment, is going to give us much more than Colt would. But getting rid of the head coach mid season is going to have a far greater impact. Gruden would be the one I kept if I had to release two of those three right this instant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Cousins is just in an impossible situation with this media and much of this fanbase. Seriously, when Kirk got the job, Gruden said it was his team for the year. Media seemed to buy into that being a good idea. So did much of the fans. Everybody preached patience. After all, he had started all of 10 nfl games or so. After two games, much of the media and the fanbase were high on Cousins. There was even speculation from some about what it would cost to resign him. That was insane. Then he plays poorly against a favored team on the road and suddenly everyone is talking about RG3 again. Also insane. Mike Jones wrote an article yesterday that was 100 percent speculation. Total clickbait. I mean, RG3 isn't even the number 2 yet. QBs have bad games, folks. Especially when the running game ain't working and they get behind. Hell, usually every third game by a NFL starter would qualify as a bad one. Now I'm not talking about the great ones, but there are less than ten of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 But why does Kirk have the maximum chance of turning the corner? What have you seen, other than getting the ball out quicker, from Kirk that makes you think he has potential? He throws behind receivers. He's missed on every deep pass we've thrown this year. He throws picks and pre-determines where he's going with the ball. What is it? What am I missing that makes people think he's the best we have? I'm not even trying to be a jerk, I genuinely want to know. Have you watched Robert play? What have you seen out of Colt? You think he is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Here's a question, just for ****s and giggles lol... Right now--this very minute--you HAVE to keep one person and immediately cut ties with the other two: - Griffin - Cousins - Gruden Which one do you pick? Rg3 without question. I am of the belief that he has the most talent, and the offensive system can be taught to him over time. EDIT: I see what you did there, you threw Gruden in at the bottom. ACK! That changes things.... hmmmmmm. If it was between the 3 QB's I'd take Rg3. But throwing Gruden in there (yes, I will read better next time) I'd have to say Gruden as I think he is a world class playcaller and his system is the right one. If the Skins can keep the same system over the next 5 years and Scotty McGloowey can make picks into that system for the next 5 years, then I think the Skins will be a contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzy Dunlop Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 When Desean Jackson comes back and Kirk still sucks, what will the next excuse for him be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 But why does Kirk have the maximum chance of turning the corner? What have you seen, other than getting the ball out quicker, from Kirk that makes you think he has potential? He throws behind receivers. He's missed on every deep pass we've thrown this year. He throws picks and pre-determines where he's going with the ball. What is it? What am I missing that makes people think he's the best we have? I'm not even trying to be a jerk, I genuinely want to know. Not really for any tangible reason. In my opinion, it's mostly because we've just seen less of him. After 35ish starts for Griffin combined with how he's looked and regressed, I think you have more certainty in what he is. After 25ish starts for McCoy and his physical limitations (height, arm strength), I think you have more certainty in what he is. After only 15ish start for Cousins, it's just slightly more likely that he could continue to improve. By the way, I'm giving it like a 5-10% chance that he gets better...I'm not banking on it or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzy Dunlop Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Have you watched Robert play? What have you seen out of Colt? You think he is better? No quarterback on our roster is clearly better than the other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I'm sure he meant "young" in terms of experience but the dude's 27 years old lol...that ain't young in the NFL. Well you're in luck because you can keep both! lol... He just turned 27 a little while ago, he's about the same age as Wilson and Tannehill. Tannehill said it well earlier this season, referring to himself as not "super" young anymore, but yeah you are still at least youngish at 27 playing QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Shanny continues to go to bat for Kirk. Sheehan today said he talked to Shanny last night for 30 minutes, the conversation veered to Kirk and Shanny told him remember when some would say that Kyle got the job because of nepotism and his record didn't stand on its own, those people were proven wrong. Likewise, if the Redskins let Kirk go to another team, Kirk will likewise prove that those who doubted him were mistaken. He said you need to have patience with a young QB. I agree patience is needed. But so is some realism. I stress once more, even if Cousins doesn't start another game all year long, he's already had more starts in his first four years than 3/4th of all mid (3rd - 5th) round QB's taken from 2000 to 2011. If he manages to start every game this year, he'll have had more starts in his first four years than 96% of that same group of QB's. Yes, people need to have patience with Cousins. Despite what's being said by some here, most people ARE giving him due amount of patience. The suggestion that he should be benched right now, or even if he has one more bad game, is coming from an extremely small minority that is being treated as if it's "everyone" saying it. Most people are advocating for patience. The issue is, the type of patience that Shanahan seems to be stressing is the kind of patience given to first round draft picks in their first or second year. That's unrealistic to expect or demand people to have with Kirk Cousins, and it goes against the reality of how things have generally worked this at least sine the new millennium within the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Have you watched Robert play? What have you seen out of Colt? You think he is better? Have you watched Kirk play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drastik Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I see the offense much more proficient with Cousins playing. He is the best we have. Let him develop or show that he won't. That will take more than 3 more games. Can you please explain the logic behind this statement? The only game Kirk Cousins has started in the Gruden era where we have had an outstanding day offensively was the Philadelphia game, week 3 of 2014. In fact, prior to the St. Louis game this season, the Philadelphia game of 2014 was the last time our offense scored more than 20 points with Kirk Cousins as the starter. Please explain how/why you view the offense as much more proficient with Kirk Cousins in the game. Please explain what Kirk has done since Gruden has become coach (Kirk has more starts than any of the other QBs on our roster under Gruden) that warrants him being considered the best we have. Kirk is 27 years old, he's done developing. I'm not sure how that is hard to grasp. It's not like he's a 24 or 25 year old who (Aaron Rodgers, 2008) who has sat for 3 years developing. Kirk has been playing, and the results have not been good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 No quarterback on our roster is clearly better than the other options. I disagree some with that. Robert is done. Colt, I just don't see much point. Kirk gets the year to prove it. Because the coaches say he is the best on the team. As did the last set of coaches. He may not get any better. If not, he isn't good enough. Start over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 When Desean Jackson comes back and Kirk still sucks, what will the next excuse for him be? IMO, he hasn't sucked. He's had a decent game, a good game, and a bad game. Which pretty much describes 50 percent of the current NFL starters this year. At least. But some folks only watch highlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Can you please explain the logic behind this statement? The only game Kirk Cousins has started in the Gruden era where we have had an outstanding day offensively was the Philadelphia game, week 3 of 2014. In fact, prior to the St. Louis game this season, the Philadelphia game of 2014 was the last time our offense scored more than 20 points with Kirk Cousins as the starter. Please explain how/why you view the offense as much more proficient with Kirk Cousins in the game. Please explain what Kirk has done since Gruden has become coach (Kirk has more starts than any of the other QBs on our roster under Gruden) that warrants him being considered the best we have. Kirk is 27 years old, he's done developing. I'm not sure how that is hard to grasp. It's not like he's a 24 or 25 year old who (Aaron Rodgers, 2008) who has sat for 3 years developing. Kirk has been playing, and the results have not been good. Sigh.... then its time to clean house. There is no QB on this team capable of anything. No hope at all. Stock up on powdered water boys. The end is upon us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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