US Soccer thread.

[MisterPinstripe]

The basic fundamentals that are lacking across the board are frightening. 

 

I honestly thought you'd been slowly progressing the last few WC's but this just encapsulates CONCACAF and how third rate the whole region is. You're going backwards FAST!

 

Hail. 

We definitely have some improving to do, need better talent coming up the ranks.

 

But I seem to remember a bunch of teams falling to those third rate CONCACAF teams.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

We definitely have some improving to do, need better talent coming up the ranks.

 

But I seem to remember a bunch of teams falling to those third rate CONCACAF teams.

 

 

Never the latter stages of things when it really matter's though hey? Couple of quarter finals between Mexico and the US is it? Both are regularly progressing to getting out of the groups but that's about as far as it goes. 

 

Hail. 

[DC9]

I feel like every four years, when the World Cup rolls around, people in the US think that soccer in this country "will take off" and this is when we become a "major power" in the world.  I feel like we've been saying this for over 30 years. 

 

Let's face it.  We as a nation, just do not put in enough resources when kids are young.  We don't train them from a young age, like we do other sports.  We have too many other sports played in this country, that kids have too many choices. We have a ton of academies for all different sports. Whereas most of the other countries in the world are all about soccer and have set up a system for that.

 

 

The organization the last few years in particular has been more innovative for our program than the last 15 years combined.

 

That's why, for me, Jurgen Klinsmann has to run the program. 

 

We as Americans don't know what we don't know.  We've got a lot of talent in the pipeline that is getting run in Europe. Not just at University of Virginia or UNC... but in Germany, England, and ahem... Scotland (no offense Well Red - it's all love) amongst other places.

 

We don't have that super star and we really haven't yet.  But that organization, coupled with these TV deals for the Premier League and Bundesliga (which I honestly think will help us more than anything else) will put us up there with this generation of U-10 players. 

 

My son finally started watching Liverpool games with me towards the end of the year, and now whenever I'm watching a match he just sits with me and asks questions.  I suspect I'm not the only household this is happening in.

 

I do laugh at the MLS and their lack of accessibility, but full disclosure I don't want my son watching that league.  College teams do a better job of playing with a tight shape and good fundamentals.

 

It'll happen for us.  We'll be up there in the next 20 years.  Mark my words.  And it will be thanks to NBC for the Premier League and Fox Sports for the Bundesliga... and Jurgen Klinsmann - tactics and team selection be damned - for his organization of our development and scouting department.

Just look at this thread... 15 pages in 2 years.  Then over 15 pages in 2 weeks for this tournament.

 

The ES Soccer thread has tripled in the last 3 years and is much older than that.

 

Why?  Because the best leagues in the world are accessible to anyone with a basic cable package.

Never the latter stages of things when it really matter's though hey? Couple of quarter finals between Mexico and the US is it? Both are regularly progressing to getting out of the groups but that's about as far as it goes. 

 

Hail. 

 

I will say this... Bradley would be a "who?" if De Rossi was playing for his home country... and if Andy Najar would've chose us we would be even better.  He single-handedly got Hondurus into the World Cup last time around.  And he ****ing grew up in Northern Virginia!

 

Not trying to make excuses... just saying it isn't as dire a situation as ya'll are letting on.  These things don't cook overnight and we were doing it completely wrong for a long time.

[Warhead36]

I feel like every four years, when the World Cup rolls around, people in the US think that soccer in this country "will take off" and this is when we become a "major power" in the world.  I feel like we've been saying this for over 30 years. 

 

Let's face it.  We as a nation, just do not put in enough resources when kids are young.  We don't train them from a young age, like we do other sports.  We have too many other sports played in this country, that kids have too many choices. We have a ton of academies for all different sports. Whereas most of the other countries in the world are all about soccer and have set up a system for that.

 

I have a 13 year old great nephew.  He was into tee ball/baseball since he was 5.  He's VERY good at baseball. Not saying he'll be a pro, but he's usually one of the best 3 players on his teams.  He then played tackle football for a couple of years in the pee wee leagues.  Then, when the last World Cup came around, he started getting enthralled with Messi and played soccer for a few years.  He was VERY good at soccer too.  OK at football. Well, this year, with no major soccer going on, he went back to baseball and picked right back up where he left off and still plays GREAT. 

 

I for one, think it's OK that we aren't dominant in soccer like we are other sports. It doesn't bother me as much as if we lost in other sports. I just want us to be able to compete in soccer and maybe pull off some upsets. We don't have to be the best in every sport in the world. We're a pretty dominant "sports" country as you see in both Olympics. Actually, if there was an area I'd love to see us improve on as far as being a world power, is education.  But that's for another thread.

 

Meh, we got to the Semi-finals, when all was pretty much lost after the Columbia opener.  I think we show pretty good most of the time for our skill level.  We're not terrible, but we're not great.  We're average.

 

I don't think I'll ever see the US win a World Cup in my lifetime.

+1 agreed on all fronts.

 

As I said in an earlier post, Soccer requires a completely different skillset and mindset then other sports. Its not about being the biggest strongest or fastest. Messi is the best player in the world and the dude is like, 5'6 170 lbs? Soccer is more about technique, vision, creativity, vision, instinct, that kind of thing.

 

We don't have that type of coaching/development to instill that. In America we value tangibles like strength and speed. But Soccer is different. In the European and South American powerhouses they coach and train at a VERY YOUNG(like, Kindergarten age)how to play at the highest of levels the right way, with the traits I mentioned. Instead of having kids run windsprints and teenagers lift weights at 6 AM, they're out doing dribbling or passing drills.

 

I remember watching a documentary a couple years ago about how soccer obsessed they are in Brazil. Kids are basically recruited when they're like 6 or 7 into these top notch academies where they live eat and breathe soccer. I think they might have gotten some rudimentary education but I can't remember. Here in America kids go to school first, and sports are just played after school. You do have those basketball schools like Oak Hill but even those don't come close to the soccer academies in Brazil and other countries. They're basically funded by the pro teams. Then of course you have High School/College athletics here. That isn't really a thing in other countries(HS maybe but certainly not college). If you're a teenager with soccer promise in Germany or Holland, you're in an academy team, school be damned.

 

So then you have these American players, 21 or 22, fresh out of college and just now playing in "pro" settings after playing in watered down(by comparison to the rest of the world)HS and College environments. Nevermind the subpar training and development they received when they were kids they were already held back by, they're now WELL behind the curve of the relative 21 or 22 year old European or South American that has basically been a Soccer professional since he was 5.

[Destino]

Naturally. There's only American's play them!

But to answer that I'd need to direct you to an Englishman .....

Hail.

Much of the world plays baseball and everyone plays basketball. Ball is life.

Also, la Roja fights on! For you barbarians unaware of which team that is, it's Chile.... the usually red team of really short guys. Hopefully they have an answer for Argentina, it would suck to lose the first and last game of a tournament to those friggin Argentinians. Long odds, but high hopes.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Much of the world plays baseball and everyone plays basketball. Ball is life.

.....

 

 

Much of the World also plays gridiron football. 

 

But only one Country plays all three domestically among teams within it's own borders and then has the arrogance/ big ones to call the winners 'World Champions.' 

 

But we love you all regardless. 

 

Good luck retaining the Copa. 

 

Hail. 

Edited June 23, 2016 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[Major Harris]

Much of the World also plays gridiron football.

But only one Country plays all three domestically among teams within it's own borders and then has the arrogance/ big ones to call the winners 'World Champions.'

But we love you all regardless.

Good luck retaining the Copa.

Hail.

Is there a gridiron team across the pond somewhere that could possibly claim the title of worlds best? Lmao

Is a euro or Chinese team gonna hang with the Cavs or warriors?

But to answer that I'd need to direct you to an Englishman .....

Hail.

Ok, how's it feel to be below average at everything? Edited June 23, 2016 by Major Harris

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Is there a gridiron team across the pond somewhere that could possibly claim the title of worlds best? Lmao

Is a euro or Chinese team gonna hang with the Cavs or warriors?

 

Dunno'. But until you have the balls to take them on you'll never know and can continue to be safe living in the insular 'America! F YEAH!' bubble.  .

Ok, how's it feel to be below average at everything?

 

 

*English by birth. Scouse by the grace of God  .  

 

Asking me on English National teams failures or not at sport is like asking a Mexican to talk up American sports. Don't do England. Never have. Never will. But the reasons behind that are a whole separate thread that would go totally off topic here. 

 

Hail. 

[Major Harris]

You really "dunno"?

Hail

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I've just been reading an article saying MLS Head Coaches don't need to be qualified and there's no regulations regarding have your badges. 

 

That can't be the case surely?

 

Hail. 

[Mursilis]

The organization the last few years in particular has been more innovative for our program than the last 15 years combined.

 

That's why, for me, Jurgen Klinsmann has to run the program. 

 

We as Americans don't know what we don't know.  We've got a lot of talent in the pipeline that is getting run in Europe. Not just at University of Virginia or UNC... but in Germany, England, and ahem... Scotland (no offense Well Red - it's all love) amongst other places.

 

We don't have that super star and we really haven't yet.  But that organization, coupled with these TV deals for the Premier League and Bundesliga (which I honestly think will help us more than anything else) will put us up there with this generation of U-10 players. 

 

My son finally started watching Liverpool games with me towards the end of the year, and now whenever I'm watching a match he just sits with me and asks questions.  I suspect I'm not the only household this is happening in.

 

I do laugh at the MLS and their lack of accessibility, but full disclosure I don't want my son watching that league.  College teams do a better job of playing with a tight shape and good fundamentals.

 

It'll happen for us.  We'll be up there in the next 20 years.  Mark my words.  And it will be thanks to NBC for the Premier League and Fox Sports for the Bundesliga... and Jurgen Klinsmann - tactics and team selection be damned - for his organization of our development and scouting department.

Just look at this thread... 15 pages in 2 years.  Then over 15 pages in 2 weeks for this tournament.

 

The ES Soccer thread has tripled in the last 3 years and is much older than that.

 

Why?  Because the best leagues in the world are accessible to anyone with a basic cable package.

 

I will say this... Bradley would be a "who?" if De Rossi was playing for his home country... and if Andy Najar would've chose us we would be even better.  He single-handedly got Hondurus into the World Cup last time around.  And he ****ing grew up in Northern Virginia!

 

Not trying to make excuses... just saying it isn't as dire a situation as ya'll are letting on.  These things don't cook overnight and we were doing it completely wrong for a long time.

 

I think you're mostly correct, but the other side of that is, the rest of the world isn't sitting still either.  Nations in Africa and Asia are also trying to climb the soccer ladder and soccer may be a more primary sport in some of them.  It's going to be really interesting to see how much of an effect the recent boom in soccer popularity translates to USMNT success in the next 10-15 years.  It's just amazing how common seeing European club jerseys being worn around here (the DMV) has become, and you're right that access to the games on cable has been a big part of that, along with the growth of the Hispanic (and other internationals) population and their love of the sport.  I'd like to see the US become serious World Cup contenders in my lifetime, but I'm not convinced that will happen.  This Copa has just been a big reminder how wide the skill gap still is. 

[Elessar78]

I've just been reading an article saying MLS Head Coaches don't need to be qualified and there's no regulations regarding have your badges. 

 

That can't be the case surely?

 

Hail. 

It's true. But badges at top levels weren't a thing a few decades ago in europe or South America, right? 

[daveakl]

Money talks. If kids start seeing how much can be made playing soccer (and as leagues in Europe become more accessible to watch and learn about they will) more and more will play.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

It's true. But badges at top levels weren't a thing a few decades ago in europe or South America, right? 

 

 

No. But being a relatively new league, and having a MASSIVE need for top American born coaches along with players, one would think that would be a staple in the US's only pro. soccer league. 

 

Hail. 

[Elessar78]

The reality would've been that lesser coaches (A-license) would've been the only eligible ones to coach MLS. There are A LOT of atrocious a-license

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

The reality would've been that lesser coaches (A-license) would've been the only eligible ones to coach MLS. There are A LOT of atrocious a-license

 

 

I think US soccer needs to seriously address the Coaching problem among American born coaches every bit as much as the player issue. That'd be a major obstacle removed right there to your long term growth. 

 

Hail. 

[Elessar78]

I think US soccer needs to seriously address the Coaching problem among American born coaches every bit as much as the player issue. That'd be a major obstacle removed right there to your long term growth. 

 

Hail. 

Wholeheartedly agree. 

 

It's starting to get better since Jurgen came on the scene. Now it's much much harder and longer to earn your badges than it was even 5 years ago. Even now, USSF requires volunteer coaches to get a basic badge to coach kids. It's better than nothing, but is a 8-hour/16-hour course to a dad who's never played soccer going to help a lot? Better than nothing. 

 

The MLS clubs have started decent set-ups. Columbus Crew hired away Valencia's academy director. He runs a sharp program. LA Galaxy and Real Salt Lake have good ones too. The next 10-20 years should be interesting for US Soccer to see how this "experiment" pans out. 

[FanboyOf91]

I think US soccer needs to seriously address the Coaching problem among American born coaches every bit as much as the player issue. That'd be a major obstacle removed right there to your long term growth. 

 

Hail. 

 

Alas, having no significant lower divisions with promotion/relegation will seriously hamstring our ability to develop coaches.

[Elessar78]

I'm all about promotion relegation. 

[btfoom]

Wholeheartedly agree. 

 

It's starting to get better since Jurgen came on the scene. Now it's much much harder and longer to earn your badges than it was even 5 years ago. Even now, USSF requires volunteer coaches to get a basic badge to coach kids. It's better than nothing, but is a 8-hour/16-hour course to a dad who's never played soccer going to help a lot? Better than nothing.

 

The MLS clubs have started decent set-ups. Columbus Crew hired away Valencia's academy director. He runs a sharp program. LA Galaxy and Real Salt Lake have good ones too. The next 10-20 years should be interesting for US Soccer to see how this "experiment" pans out. 

 

It's actually a lot better than nothing. By requiring coaches to attend these training sessions, they learn not just how to run practices, but how to interact with refs, parents, etc.  They also learn the basics of coaching.  At this point, there really aren't too many "Dad's who never played soccer" coaching at a travel level anymore.  At higher levels, I've found that the NSCAA training is much better than the USSF.

I'm all about promotion relegation. 

Definitely agree to disagree on this one.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Alas, having no significant lower divisions with promotion/relegation will seriously hamstring our ability to develop coaches.

 

 

If the MLS would stop employing overseas coaches and look to American ones that wouldn't be a problem. 

 

Hail. 

[Elessar78]

It's actually a lot better than nothing. By requiring coaches to attend these training sessions, they learn not just how to run practices, but how to interact with refs, parents, etc. They also learn the basics of coaching. At this point, there really aren't too many "Dad's who never played soccer" coaching at a travel level anymore. At higher levels, I've found that the NSCAA training is much better than the USSF.

Definitely agree to disagree on this one.

Agree about NSCAA. They are more about actual education. But USSF is trying to kill them off.

[FanboyOf91]

If the MLS would stop employing overseas coaches and look to American ones that wouldn't be a problem. 

 

Hail. 

 

We hire overseas coaches because our American coaches suck.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

We hire overseas coaches because our American coaches suck.

 

 

And there's the disconnect between US Soccer and the flagship MLS. 

 

MLS want to grow the product and see foreign names as dollar signs where there should from the get go of been far more emphasis on growing the WHOLE game Stateside. With American players AND coaches. Not falling back on importing. 

 

Hail. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

FWIW, and it's only talk, but there's brewing talk here that Klinsmann is close to being the next Southampton manager. 

 

Hail.