Discussin on open carry advocates

[Bang]

Open carry. While camping, hiking, working in the country where critters could get ya. OK. In a city? Stupid. A cop in rural areas will likely not bat an eye to see a rancher working his land with a pistol on his hip or a rifle near by. A cop in a suburb of DC (VA/MD) is likely to lose his ****ing mind seeing a homeowner walking around with a pistol on his hip or a rifle on his back. Why? It's not normal. Is it wrong? Technically no, but the only ones doing it are dicks that make gun owners look bad and give the anti-gun crowd ammunition.

 

That's my 2c.

 

Pretty much exactly spot on.

 

~Bang

[Predicto]

Crime goes down for 30 years

 

Fear of crime goes up for 30 years

 

Gun regulation gets less and less every year

 

Fear of the gummint taking muh guns goes up every year

 

what a country

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Crime goes down for 30 years

 

Fear of crime goes up for 30 years

 

Gun regulation gets less and less every year

 

Fear of the gummint taking muh guns goes up every year

 

what a country

 

Should gun manufacturers and the advocacy groups ALWAYS want Democrats in the White House?

 

In Reagan's America, it was damn near impossible to get a gun in more than half the states. Today, you can buy one on Saturday and carry it in your underwear to church on Sunday.

[Chew]

Depends on where are, but certain areas have some rather severe restrictions on concealed carry.  Can't carry within so many feet of a government building, school, day care center, public transportation,  establishment that serves alcohol, etc, etc.

 

Furthermore, many places charge quite a lot of money and require many hours of training to obtain a CHL. Illinois is 16 hours with a certified instructor and a $150 - $300 fee. It makes it difficult for some people (poor people) to obtain it. So they can say they're offering it, but make it extremely difficult to get. Sort of like if in order to vote you had to pay $300 for a special ID and take an education course that took at least an entire weekend.

 

There are several states that have restrictions like this. They also fall under "may issue," meaning that the applicant has to show why they were applying for a CHL. DC had this, but it was recently ruled unconstitutional as they were simply using it as a reason to refuse anyone a CHL.

 

Understood.  But I mean...if you can afford a firearm, one would hope you could afford the $120 training class and $50 fees to sheriff.  It's good for five years, with a $20 renewal fee for another five years.  So 10 year CCW permit for around $170....that's less than $20 a year. 

 

And the off-limits locations, at least here in CO, are next to none.  any place prohibited by law (gov't buildings, banks, etc), school grounds, places with metal detectors.  as you said, it depends on where you are. 

 

Sucks for folks who aren't in shall issue states, though.  I'm about as liberal as they come, but i'll be GOD DAMNED if some local LEO piece of **** denies me my CCW

[The Evil Genius]

What is it in the 2nd amendment that makes people argue that it is the only one of the first 10 that shouldn't be limited?

[mistertim]

Open carry. While camping, hiking, working in the country where critters could get ya. OK. In a city? Stupid. A cop in rural areas will likely not bat an eye to see a rancher working his land with a pistol on his hip or a rifle near by. A cop in a suburb of DC (VA/MD) is likely to lose his ****ing mind seeing a homeowner walking around with a pistol on his hip or a rifle on his back. Why? It's not normal. Is it wrong? Technically no, but the only ones doing it are dicks that make gun owners look bad and give the anti-gun crowd ammunition.

 

That's my 2c.

Very much agreed. Only time I would open carry would be in the wilderness, etc because its just much easier to draw in case of danger. other than that, wtf is the point?

[twa]

I don't really get what that means. Are you really willing to shoot a legislature over a tax plan? Or are you just posturing?

I have no clue wtf you are talking about either

What is it in the 2nd amendment that makes people argue that it is the only one of the first 10 that shouldn't be limited?

In what world is it not limited?

[Slateman]

The goal is really for anyone to be able carry at gun at any time with no restrictions?

 

The bad news is: That's crazy.

 

The good news is: There will probably be 20 states with 0 restrictions on CCW within the next 5 years. And there will never be a federal law on this matter in our lifetimes.

The bad news is that it's been shown that there very few restrictions that can be enacted that will actually have the effect they claim to seek and that also are constitutional. The truth is that you either get rid of guns completely, or you accept that violence and death will be a normality in our society.

 

Understood.  But I mean...if you can afford a firearm, one would hope you could afford the $120 training class and $50 fees to sheriff.  It's good for five years, with a $20 renewal fee for another five years.  So 10 year CCW permit for around $170....that's less than $20 a year. 

 

And the off-limits locations, at least here in CO, are next to none.  any place prohibited by law (gov't buildings, banks, etc), school grounds, places with metal detectors.  as you said, it depends on where you are. 

 

Sucks for folks who aren't in shall issue states, though.  I'm about as liberal as they come, but i'll be GOD DAMNED if some local LEO piece of **** denies me my CCW

For one, you're working to restrict a right by use of requiring money in order to exercise said right. Even as a philosophical discussion, that is pretty unconstitutional. Second, why is it that other states charge a nominal fee (Virginia is $45 for a five year CHL)? The truth is that this is there way of controlling a right that they want to restrict as much as possible. It's the same paperwork, same background checks, but for some reason the cost is double? Don't sit there and tell me that Fairfax County is vastly cheaper to live in than Cook County.

 

The off-limits places vary. In Colorado, it's relatively open, much like in Virginia. But roll up to DC, Maryland, Massachusetts, or several other states/cities and it's suddenly a different ball game. Take Illinois. If there is a special event going on that requires a permit, even if it's on public land, no concealed carry. Place that generates more than 50% of its revenue from alcohol sales? No carry. You're at a playground, park, library? Nope. There's no logical reasoning behind it other than those people simply wanted to restrict as much as the could. Same logic behind abortion restrictions, really.

 

And that was the point of challenging the may issue statutes. They can deny you for any reasonable suspicion and it's incumbent on you to appeal. Imagine this with any other right. Police are currently using the same logic for search and seizure, stop and frisk, wire tapping, and other electronic surveillance and the vast majority of America is flipping out. But hey deny a different right and all of the sudden it's "common sense."

[DaGoonie55]

Open carrying an AR is dumb and attention whoring.  Pistols - I understand why some do, but the risks outweigh the rewards.

Concealed carry is the best option for me.  And I believe to be the safest for all around.

 

Unless you shoot yourself in the foot in a club (Plaxico)

 

love,

 

Rootin tootin redneck man bear pig from WV

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The bad news is that it's been shown that there very few restrictions that can be enacted that will actually have the effect they claim to seek and that also are constitutional. The truth is that you either get rid of guns completely, or you accept that violence and death will be a normality in our society.

 

 

 

This is a common theme on these threads.

 

I say "Gun enthusiasts have won. There is really no point in trying to pass gun regulations at this point."

 

And the response is why gun regulations are bad.

 

Once again, you have won. Unless your goal is to carry a bazooka to Denny's. I think that still requires a permit.

[PF Chang]

Gun regulation gets less and less every year

 

Fear of the gummint taking muh guns goes up every year

 

This is what I don't get. It's the argument of the conspiracy theorist -- we need guns to protect ourselves from the government coming to get our guns. If the conspiracy really runs that deep, I'm pretty sure the world's largest and most powerful military isn't going to have trouble dealing with some tinfoil hat guy no matter how many guns he has. 

[Slateman]

This is a common theme on these threads.

I say "Gun enthusiasts have won. There is really no point in trying to pass gun regulations at this point."

And the response is why gun regulations are bad.

Once again, you have won. Unless your goal is to carry a bazooka to Denny's. I think that still requires a permit.

I've won, yet for some reason there are still people pushing for bans and restrictions. Nothing is won.

This is what I don't get. It's the argument of the conspiracy theorist -- we need guns to protect ourselves from the government coming to get our guns. If the conspiracy really runs that deep, I'm pretty sure the world's largest and most powerful military isn't going to have trouble dealing with some tinfoil hat guy no matter how many guns he has.

Insurgencies have been quite succesful in the past against supposedly top tier militaries.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I've won, yet for some reason there are still people pushing for bans and restrictions. Nothing is won.

 

 

Who are these people and why are they doing such a miserable job?

[Predicto]

You have a constitutional right to travel, but you still need a license to drive a car.   And you have to register your car too.

 

The idea that guns and guns alone are entitled to have absolutely zero restrictions on their ownership, registration or time, place and manner of use is completely absurd, and nevertheless that view is winning, all over the country.   The NRA is incredibly good at its game.

[Chew]

 

Insurgencies have been quite succesful in the past against supposedly top tier militaries.

 

yeah, but this is 'Murica.  they got drones and ****.

[AsburySkinsFan]

As a left-leaning, gun owning moderate...I find it pointless and ultimately harmful to efforts to reasonably support the 2nd amendment. Self-righteous yahoos rolling through shopping malls with AR-15s do not remotely resemble a "well-regulated militia".

When the NRA tells open carry folks that they are doing more to harm gun ownership in the US....believe them.

[Slateman]

You have a constitutional right to travel, but you still need a license to drive a car. And you have to register your car too.

The idea that guns and guns alone are entitled to have absolutely zero restrictions on their ownership, registration or time, place and manner of use is completely absurd, and nevertheless that view is winning, all over the country. The NRA is incredibly good at its game.

You have a constitutional right to have access to roads. You do not have a right to operate a motor vehicle.

yeah, but this is 'Murica. they got drones and ****.

And? They can tell me apart from the hundred or so non-insurgents I'm standing with how exactly?

Who are these people and why are they doing such a miserable job?

I would say they're exceeding greatly on the West Coast, Illinois, DC, Maryland, and most of New England. They've made it known that they are willing to lie and outspend to get what they want.

[tshile]

responsible gun owners will forever be beaten over the head by the gun-control crowd because of the weird people who do it because it's cool, or it makes their favorite political statement, or whatever nonsensical reason some of these people have.

 

a big reason to conceal carry instead of open carry... so you don't have to worry about people judging you or reacting to you because they're incapable of understanding that some people carry a gun for reasons other than being a nut, or that maybe there exists such a thing as a responsible gun owner.

 

but then you get gun-control nuts telling you conceal carry makes you nut, even though the reason you do it is so people like them won't be bothered/worried when they come across you in public.

 

it's like everything else, the nuts on both extremes should go kick rocks and let the responsible, normal people handle the adult business.

 

the NRA and fear mongering is super annoying, **** is entirely too expensive because of that. for a while it was impossible to find any moderately popular ammo....

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

You have a constitutional right to have access to roads. You do not have a right to operate a motor vehicle.

And? They can tell me apart from the hundred or so non-insurgents I'm standing with how exactly?

I would say they're exceeding greatly on the West Coast, Illinois, DC, Maryland, and most of New England. They've made it known that they are willing to lie and outspend to get what they want.

 

Illinois has gone from no CCW permits to "shall issue" over the past 25 years.

 

California, Maryland, New York, and Massachusetts are pretty much the last places with real restrictions.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Illinois has gone from no CCW permits to "shall issue" over the past 25 years.

 

California, Maryland, New York, and Massachusetts are pretty much the last places with real restrictions.

 

Nothing like watching a post get destroyed in two sentences.

[Slateman]

Illinois has gone from no CCW permits to "shall issue" over the past 25 years.

California, Maryland, New York, and Massachusetts are pretty much the last places with real restrictions.

Illinois mirrored their restrictions off of New York and Maryland.

[twa]

Nothing like watching a post get destroyed in two sentences.

Let him get a permit to cc and tell me that with a straight face.

We added restrictions simply to pass cc

[tshile]

The idea that guns and guns alone are entitled to have absolutely zero restrictions on their ownership, registration or time, place and manner of use is completely absurd, and nevertheless that view is winning, all over the country.   The NRA is incredibly good at its game.

 

I absolutely agree about the NRA, and that zero restrictions is absurd (we don't have zero restrictions), but part of the problem is the way the extreme gun control crowd talk/go about things.

 

I've tried to convince people I consider absolutely reasonable pe that it's OK to require some sort of official certification/license to carry/own guns (something more than a 30 minute internet video) because responsible people should have no issues, but they're concerned it would be a slipper slope. At least the ones I can get to talk about the subject past the constitutional right/well regulated militia/etc discussion. I don't blame them for feeling that way...

[Predicto]

You have a constitutional right to have access to roads. You do not have a right to operate a motor vehicle.

 

 

 

Yes, that's a constitutional interpretation.

 

So is the idea that "the right to keep and bear arms" must mean "the unfettered and unregistered right to keep and bear any arms you want anywhere you want with no restrictions."    

 

That's the interpretation that you and the NRA are pushing, but the words "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" does not necessarily require the additional interpretation that "there can be no firearm registration requirements or limitations of the type of weaponry available or time place and manner restrictions on where guns may be carried."   All of that has been grafted on by the NRA.

 

Every single other constitutional right has limitations on it.   Free speech, freedom of assembly, free exercise of religion, right to petition for redress of grievances, right to be secure in your home, search and seizure, speedy trial, confronting witnesses, you name it.   Why are no restrictions at all permissible on this one sacred right? 

I absolutely agree about the NRA, and that zero restrictions is absurd (we don't have zero restrictions), but part of the problem is the way the extreme gun control crowd talk/go about things.

 

I've tried to convince people I consider absolutely reasonable pe that it's OK to require some sort of official certification/license to carry/own guns (something more than a 30 minute internet video) because responsible people should have no issues, but they're concerned it would be a slipper slope. At least the ones I can get to talk about the subject past the constitutional right/well regulated militia/etc discussion. I don't blame them for feeling that way...

 

 

IMO, they believe it would be a slippery slope because that is what the NRA tells them, over and over and over.

 

 And they also believe that all the fault lies with the "extreme gun control crowd" rather than with their own paranoia which has been stirred up by the NRA.  

[Bang]

the extreme gun control crowd has no power, and it never has.

 

Look, 23 children were killed in a school, and we didn't restrict anything.

Nothing happened.

 

 

It will never change.

it is a distraction issue that the right trumpets to

A/ increase their buddies in the gun lobby's profits, and

B/ keep people terrified of the lefties that are going to turn us into soviet Russia the second you give them a chance.

 

And every single time anyone ever brings it up, it gets KILLED.

KILLED like a shopper in a mall shooting.

and you know why?
Because Democrats aren't going to change it, either. Democrats shoot guns, like their rights, want to protect their homes and families.

 

There is absolutely no reason to be so worried that your rights will be taken away or restricted to the point that you cannot defend yourself.

None. It's a fantasy. A paranoid delusion.

 

FEAR rules this thinking.

And of all emotions, the easiest to create and manipulate are FEAR, and ANGER.

 

So buy them guns, because goddammit, that uppity president is coming to get 'em ANY DAY NOW...  , every cop you see is out to GET YOU because those damn LIBERALS have instituted a POLICE STATE that lets animals run WILD in Baltimore and St. Louis,, and Waco..  

They have sold the cops MILITARY WEAPONS that my bosses happily produce replacements for and sell back to the government for a ridiculous profit. and while they're not trying to TAKE AWAY YOUR RIGHTS they are the only thing that stands between YOU and the RIOT PRONE BLACKS, unless you are allowed to openly carry concealed weapons of all calibers and sizes, and of course, for you ladies, designer colors.

Order now! if you're a PATRIOT, you'll do it!

 

~Wayne LaPierre