Mike Shanahan Tells All on ESPN 980 (RGIII, McNabb, Manning, Haynseworth) Link included w/ Audio

[elkabong82]

Chill out man, I'm on your side.  Subtracting the best four years from a HOF coach is ridiculous, especially if you aren't subtracting the worst four on the other end. 

 

But since apparently we're doing this now....

Dan Snyder's record as an owner, after you subtract his team's four best years:

69-123 (.359)

Never been better than 8-8, never been to the playoffs.

 

So, if you consider the ACTUAL point, which our lunatic friend in here is ignoring, would you want the team to hire a coach who won a Superbowl 16 years ago and since that time had a .500 record? Or would you rather have someone with a more recent proven track record, or a coordinator from a recent winner or with a recent proven track record at his position? 

 

Shanahan was a bad call, and there are plenty of bad decisions he made, and few good ones, without even looking at RG3 and McNabb.

[gtn130]

Excellent point.

A better winning percentage, with 3 non hof qbs no less, and a 5-6 playoff record beats the crap out of 1-5.

And all in far less than 16 seasons.

Good stuff.

 

Still cherry-picking I see. "I'm gonna ignore the infinite examples that disprove my argument and instead talk about the one that makes me sound correct"

[Tsailand]

If you take away Bill Belichick's best four playoff runs, he has no Super Bowl Rings and is only 9-8 in the postseason.

[gtn130]

Cool. I didn't realize increasing passing attempts each season was not a sign of increased role in the pocket. Seattle has Lynch, the workhorse, and an elite defense, which is why pass attempts are low. Wilson was 15th in pass attempts this season. All QBs who are expected to be team leaders eventually have to develop their passing skills. Plus, again, nothing you've said negates what so many were saying and could see, that on this Redskins team, with such poor support that Shanny built around him (some understanding of poor quality due to BS cap penalty), RG3 was going to get killed if he stuck with the read option as heavily as it was used his rookie year.

 

Seattle has been last or second to last in pass attempts in the entire league since Wilson has been their QB. I don't know what more I need to say to explain to you that Seattle isn't actively developing Wilson as a pocket passer in games -- they're actually doing the inverse of that. 

If you take away Bill Belichick's best four playoff runs, he has no Super Bowl Rings and is only 9-8 in the postseason.

 

What a loser that guy is. Can't even win a Super Bowl after you subtract his four Super Bowl wins

[elkabong82]

Noone is removing the dysfunction. Not Shanny, not Bruce… Marty couldn't do it, Gibbs couldn't do it, Jay can't do it, and neither will McLovin. Everybody thinks that they can be the one to slay the dragon but the dragon just chews up the mightiest of knights and spits em out like nothing.

 

See, now this is where people need to be clearer about their definition of dysfunction. We didn't have that much dysfunction under Gibbs. We had some poor decision made, and we had malcontent Lavar with his drama, but not dysfunction. 

 

I think the media, specifically the Post with their long-standing anti-Snyder agenda, loves to stir **** up and if the team is losing, which it has done more than win, fans buy in to the dysfunction stories hook line and sinker.

 

When Shanny was here, HE was the source of dysfunction. Poor coach hires, feeding stories to the media when he was doing poorly in attempts to shift blame, etc. 

 

This year's "dysfunction" was more media-created than anything, and again, when the team loses the fans like to blame anything and everything so dysfunction becomes the buzz word and anything deemed wrong/bad gets filed under that same category. For example, Tony Wylie telling a reporter to back off, one who had already been told he didn't have permission to do what he was doing, gets labeled as dysfunction (and I'm not even a fan of Wylie). 

 

Tell me, where was the "dysfunction" in 2012 before RG3's injury vs. Seattle? According to Shanny's version of events it was there, but odd I saw NO reports or rumblings of fans about dysfunction. But once Shanny was on the way out, then all of a sudden we had a bunch of dysfunction for a bunch of years, and it's all Snyder's fault now too, didn't we just know it had to be him!

 

"Dysfunction" is a media-driven buzz word, a packaged narrative that fans will always buy in bulk when the team is losing. When we are winning, then magically there is no dysfunction.

 

We have tried different FO structures, but mostly bad results. We have a good FO structure now, but locals like selling lemons instead of lemonade and Mike needs a job, so we take a trip down memory land that has been drastically detoured.

Seattle has been last or second to last in pass attempts in the entire league since Wilson has been their QB. I don't know what more I need to say to explain to you that Seattle isn't actively developing Wilson as a pocket passer in games -- they're actually doing the inverse of that. 

 

What a loser that guy is. Can't even win a Super Bowl after you subtract his four Super Bowl wins

 

Let me know when you feel like addressing my point about RG3 here, if it even sunk in.

[Tsailand]

So, if you consider the ACTUAL point, which our lunatic friend in here is ignoring, would you want the team to hire a coach who won a Superbowl 16 years ago and since that time had a .500 record?

 

The only way you get him down to a .500 record is if you count the Redskins clown show, but don't count the Elway years.

 

Here is his actual record in Denver post-Elway:

 

DEN     1999     6     10     0     .375     5th in AFC West     –     –     –     –

DEN     2000     11     5     0     .688     2nd in AFC West     0     1     .000    

DEN     2001     8     8     0     .500     3rd in AFC West     –     –     –     –

DEN     2002     9     7     0     .563     2nd in AFC West     –     –     –     –

DEN     2003     10     6     0     .625     2nd in AFC West     0     1     .000    

DEN     2004     10     6     0     .625     2nd in AFC West     0     1     .000    

DEN     2005     13     3     0     .813     1st in AFC West     1     1     .500   

DEN     2006     9     7     0     .563     3rd in AFC West     –     –     –     –

DEN     2007     7     9     0     .438     2nd in AFC West     –     –     –     –

DEN     2008     8     8     0     .500     2nd in AFC West     –     –     –     –

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

My agenda is for the team to become good. For the last decade we have stuck with mediocre QBs past their due date out of some misguided idea that if were just patient and get them an oline and tall receivers and what have you then it'll finally work out. Believe it or not, sticking with a guy that can't read the field in year 3 isn't going to make us better. I am sick and tired of sticking with QBs that lack a basic understanding of NFL fundementals. We just need to keep drafting 1st round QBs until we get it right, in todays nfl you can tell if a QB "has it" more quickly

Just LOL. Not even worth pointing out how funny this is.

[HAILSKINSNYC]

The thought that two months into a 5 year, 35 million dollar contract; Shanny got bullied into trading for McNabb is so laughable and inconceivable.    Especially when he had a contract that states he has total control.  

 

To hear Shanny tell the story, Allen negotiated the deal and Mike didn't like it, but went along with it......I mean, seriously?

Did Shanny get bullied into trading a 3rd round pick for Jamal Brown a few weeks after that?

[Rufus T Firefly]

The thought that two months into a 5 year, 35 million dollar contract; Shanny got bullied into trading for McNabb is so laughable and inconceivable.    Especially when he had a contract that states he has total control.  

 

To hear Shanny tell the story, Allen negotiated the deal and Mike didn't like it, but went along with it......I mean, seriously?

Did Shanny get bullied into trading a 3rd round pick for Jamal Brown a few weeks after that?

Certainly.

 

But, wild guess, Trent Williams was all him.

[HAILSKINSNYC]

Chill out man, I'm on your side.  Subtracting the best four years from a HOF coach is ridiculous, especially if you aren't subtracting the worst four on the other end. 

 

But since apparently we're doing this now....

Dan Snyder's record as an owner, after you subtract his team's four best years:

69-123 (.359)

Never been better than 8-8, never been to the playoffs.

 

The 4 good years under Snyder; he had good QB play.....the other 11 years; he had subpar QB play....combined with subpar coaching most of those years......it's as simple as that.

[gtn130]

Not sure Snyder era Gibbs ever had good QB play. Brunell, Todd Collins and Jason Campbell = zero Super Bowl equity. 2012 was the best chance Skins had at a Super Bowl in the last 16 years, which is pretty sad 

[Taylor703]

lol

I don't think anyone who has a clue actually believes Kyle Shanahan is a bad coach. He voluntarily walked away from Cleveland btw.

And I'm not forgetting his actual point -- it's just complete garbage. He desperately wants to prove that Shanahan is a mediocre coach by erasing 20% of his career. Ok, let's do that. Now what? We can't possibly tolerate a .500 coach working for the Snyder era Redskins? I'll readily eagerly accept .500 over Jay Gruden or any of the nonsense we've experienced over the last 16 years.

Yeah, Shanahan made personnel mistakes and shouldn't be a GM, but he's easily the best football coach we've had (unless you believe semi-retired Nascar Gibbs and his run-run-pass-punt offense was legit), so fans acting somehow OUTRAGED by Shanahan failing is pure comedy. Maybe we should wake up and realize that 1) our franchise is one of the worst in sports and 2) good coaches aren't lining up to work here.

Gibbs was away from the game for 10+ years, came back and was able to take this team to two playoff appearances in four years with Cerrato helping him build his team. Shanahan, at no point in his career, is anywhere close to how good a coach Gibbs was.

[Skinsinparadise]

Certainly.

 

But, wild guess, Trent Williams was all him.

 

Yeah to me that's my issue with Shanny when it comes to accepting his version of things.  The good things he takes credit for and then the bad things its about circumstance and other people screwing up.  It almost seems pathological with him.

 

Heck even his near apology about a year ago about the Seattle game, the vibe he gives off to me is look I should have listened to my instincts because my instincts are so brilliant, it was one of the rare times I didn't just go with my inner wisdom and look what happened, I should know better...

 

I recall all the Shanny excuses during his tenure well, where he started to lose me some was actually in 2012 after the 3-6 start and defended the defensive lapses at the time to injuries, and he actually said that the team has a top 5 defense when healthy.  

 

He's used injuries, the salary cap, the owner, RG3, McNabb, Dr. Andrews -- the RG3 issue has really overshadowed the McNabb stuff but some of the back and forth behind the scenes on McNabb was just as nasty with the leaks, etc.

 

Was there blame to pass around, I'd bet there was.  But Shanny to me comes off silly by implying he was the white knight in it all.

[HAILSKINSNYC]

Not sure Snyder era Gibbs ever had good QB play. Brunell, Todd Collins and Jason Campbell = zero Super Bowl equity. 2012 was the best chance Skins had at a Super Bowl in the last 16 years, which is pretty sad 

 

Brunell was good in 2005...not great, but good

Campbell was good early in 2007...Todd Collins was good at the end of 2007

[gtn130]

Gibbs was away from the game for 10+ years, came back and was able to take this team to two playoff appearances in four years with Cerrato helping him build his team. Shanahan, at no point in his career, is anywhere close to how good a coach Gibbs was.

 

Yeah, sure, if you ignore all context and only look at the results. Gibbs actually came into a much better situation than the one Shanahan inherited from a personnel standpoint. Prime LaVar, Champ Bailey (who he signed off on trading for 60 cents on the dollar), Chris Samuels, drafting one of the best safety prospects ever at #5, not having Haynesworth and a roster that was well over the hill, etc.

 

Gibbs is a legend and HOF coach, but he was in over his head when he came back -- the offense he ran was from the stone age and his game/clock management was incomprehensible. He was fortunate enough to be able to put together a good defense with a great D coordinator, but come on. If you're picking a guy to run your offense today, there's no way I'd ever pick Gibbs over Shanahan. In the 80s and 90s, ok sure. 

Brunell was good in 2005...not great, but good

Campbell was good early in 2007...Todd Collins was good at the end of 2007

 

We have very different ideas of what the word "good" means

[redskins55]

 I believed mostly all of what Shanahahn said today. And that makes me even more disappointed, as Shanahan clearly was not the right man for the job. His inability to evaluate and manage the Quarterback position doomed his tenure here.  It's as if Shanahan's tenure was a stage play with several different acts..

 

#1. The Beginning

 

 He wanted Marc Bulger SMH! Then he claims he didn't want McNabb, but he's the team president! Bruce Allen cant do anything without his approval! And had we not picked up McNabb we would've been stuck with Rex and Beck. Who both showed they were very bad even though Shanny stuck his rep on the line for them!! .

 

 

#2. A second chance..

 

After two years of the QB quandary, The Redskins have an opportunity to draft one of the two best QB draft prospects in years and Shanny didn't want to trade picks.. Ok so lets assume we hadn't pulled the RG3 trade. By his own admission Shanny drafts Tannehill.  Ok do any of you think we go to the playoffs in 2012 with Ryan Tannehill?? 

 

 

#3. The unwillingness to conform...

 

We get Griffin and after he gets hurt vs Seattle,Shanny says that Griffin tells him after the super bowl that he wants to be a drop back QB!  Shanny says the words sound like Dan's words, so he confronted Snyder about it but Dan denied saying that... But then Mike turns around admits that he knew that Dan wanted Robert to be a drop back QB..

 Soooo.. apparently Snyder told Shanny that he wanted Griffin to be a drop back QB from the beginning. (Snyder wants to protect his investment of course)  So instead of Shanahan doing his  job to coach up the prospect to be a drop back passer , he persists and runs the read option.  Which brings us to #4..

 

#4. The severing of trust..

 

After Griffin says he wants to be a drop back QB. After Snyder says he wants Griffin to be a drop back QB, Shanny should've devoted all effort into turning RG3 into Aaron Rogers. But there was one glaring problem.. Shanny couldn't sit Griffin in 2013 to let him learn how to be a drop back QB as Rogers sat. Why??  because in 2012 he sacrificed winning Super Bowls for winning in the division. Instead of being content with the losses and allowing Griffin to learn, he created this offense to capitalize on Griffin's college strengths. We won the division but the super bowl may have been lost forever..

 

#5 The ultimate demise.. 

 

The problem could've been solved had Shanny just been able to get out of his own way. Instead of bringing in a veteran QB  while we train Griffin he decides to undermine Griffin and Snyder before Griffin ever sets foot in Washington. He goes out and drafts another rookie QB in the same freaking draft as the #2 pick! A big " F "You to the owner and slap in the face toward Griffin. 

 

So after Griff lights it up his rookie year the pressure is on Shanahan to start Griffin. He can't start Cousins, another player who was drafted in the same class as Griffin, and he cant go back to Grossman because that ship has sailed.. . He's trapped himself into a corner with nowhere to turn. And subsequently gets fired for it! 

[JesseNeckred]

Anyone else wish Shanahan would just shut the hell up about the Skins?

[RedBeast]

Real leaders assume responsibility for all failures and give credit to the team for successes in public. Behind closed doors? They might blow off steam or give someone a well deserved ass chewing. Some are very strong, arrogant, quirky, etc. But all share that trait about being responsible.

Shanahan aint no Patton thats for damn sure, not even Gibbs level. Deflecting. Pointing fingers. Not assuming responsibility. He should get fragged. **** him. Another cog in the 20 year failure machine. I hate him now because of this. What a weak spineless person.

[Tsailand]

I believe Shanny like 95% of the way after listening to the whole thing. RG3 was stubborn and obfuscated his injuries and then had the audacity after the Seattle game to say that everyone "knew their responsibilities" in what occurred. If RG3 wasn't a little **** he would have said "NO ONE is at fault - injuries happen and I indicated to everyone involved that I was good to go until it gave way."

 

 

Most football players are going to lie and claim to be OK in that situation.  RG3 certainly, given what we know, and Shanahan should have known, about his personality and insecurities.

Shanny was supposed to be the adult there.  He ailed.

[Darc Requiem]

Wait people are buying what Shanahan is selling? I have some beach front property in Wyoming for sale any takers?

[TSO]

Am I allowed to believe that Snyder enabled Griffin, Griffin was/is not the ideal coachable QB who has a bit of an ego, the cap penalty magnified a lot of our issues, and that the Redskins are and have been a complete mess for as long as I can remember… while STILL thinking that Shanahan was an utter failure who did a piss poor job managing the roster, terrible job managing relationships within Redskins park (including with the owner and QB), and was much more of a factor in most of these things he talked about than the “innocent bystander” role he portrayed in this interview?

Or do I have to pick a side?

Not on this board, you're not, lol. Blame must go on one side only and God help you if you choose the wrong one to make the villain.

Clearly, Shanahan is trying to absolve himself and I actually believe he believes it all in his head. I think he thinks he was a victim of the dysfunction that is the Redskins, and he's right to a certain degree. The fact is, all these guys within the organization were taking credit after 2012 and then acted like his "final say" was the be all end all and they had nothing to do with anything after 2013. I was never more disgusted by the organization in my life.

That being said, he could've and should've done a lot different, and he didn't. He failed and it's ultimately on him. It's just ridiculous to assume it's only on him like so many did during and after 2013.

No one wanted to look at Robert for his role in it all. A very, very large role that included Snyder.

Allen was labeled a figurehead and had no hand in anything significant.

Campbell and Brown were, once again, just not being listened to even though they were all about saying things the year prior like "Mike gives us much more of a role than we ever had" and "our input counts more than ever".

It was a disgusting place last year on the boards.

I find it amazing how things have went down with Gruden now. A coach who was labeled as a "player's coach", "honest and direct with his players", and someone who will "work with Griffin, not against him, like those idiot Shanahan's", by the same group of posters who created the "Mike the sole villain" narrative.

Robert all offseason was taking subtle jabs at Mike and Kyle while saying how Gruden believes in him and "we have each other's backs".

And then 2014 happened, lol. It's actually hilarious when you think about it.

What's not funny is how cemented in positions some are to the point where they're so unwilling to bend on their beliefs that were formed on mostly speculation and no first hand accounts or interactions with the men they're giving such strong opinions on.

So stubborn that, even after all this, they still can't see how large of a role Robert has played in creating issues as well as how badly the roster has been handled by Snyder and his FO structure no matter what coach we bring in here or what title we give them.

Shanahan is just a liar and Gruden hates Griffin, lol. Oh, and they both completely suck at everything football.

I'm happy Scot is here now and we have a normal FO. I hope it doesn't get ruined somehow like so many things do here, God willing.

[Tsailand]

Brunell was good in 2005...not great, but good

Campbell was good early in 2007...Todd Collins was good at the end of 2007

 

Football Outsiders DVOA ranks Brunell as just a little above average in 2005

Campbell as average (which for him is good) in 2007.

Collins as the 4th best QB in 2007, though it's a stretch to think he would have played as well over a full season as he did in those his four games.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2005

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2007

 

 

[TSO]

...... <Edit>

Even now, are we the place to go when you have no other options (to move up) (recovering alcoholic GM, HC that I'm not sure there was a lot of demand for to move above his OC job, a DC that was a LBC on a team with an OK defense that is tied to a 1-15 team as a DC in the past).  Were any of them getting jobs of comparable levels anywhere else?

 

Then you have to ask what is the cause and effect.  Does the dysfunction attract people with limited options (assuming that's the case) or does Snyder attract people with limited options because it allows him to exercise some level of control creating dysfunction?

 

Would Wade Philips take the job as the Redskins DC?

 

Would Snyder offer him the job?

 

This is a very interesting, more likely than we think, albeit incredibly distressing, idea you're positing here.

 

Now never mention it again.  

I'm with you.  I generally like Sheehan.  But there's no question that he's completely in Shanahan's camp.  100%.  

 

I really don't understand the point of it, either.  Shanahan clearing the air? For what purpose?  

 

 

I'm surprised a lot of posters are wondering about this... the purpose to me is simple and obvious: ratings. 

 

Just look at the discussion it's generated here on ES. This is outpacing the RG3 thread for God's sake, lol. 

Everything that happens with this team is ultimately on Dan.

 

However, if I embezzle money I can't really claim it's not my fault and all the blame goes on the idiot who hired me.

 

Interestingly, the  "Mike had final say" argument is used much in the same vain, right? (not necessarily by you, just a general board narrative)

[TSO]

A.  If he didn't want the Mcnabb trade how could it go down?  He just got the job and part of the drill is he had full power.  Did Danny steamroll him anyway?  Was Shanny just more wimpy than he appeared and let people walk all over him?  Or is it something in between where Shanny wasn't sure but went along and figured it was such a debacle that he'd put it all on Danny in retrospect?

 

I'm going to go ahead and say that, rationally, one should lean towards the "Shanny was just more wimpy than he appeared" because: 

 

1) He was an older coach who had been a year out of the league when we brought him in. A lot of the times the older you get the less confrontational you usually are, especially when dealing with men who are much younger than you.

 

2) Terrell Davis being shocked at how easy the practices under Shanny here in DC seemed in comparison to when he was a player for Shanny. I believe he interned in 2010 as a coach and only recently mentioned that (last year, I think).

 

3) The talk from some players that Shanahan avoided them (like Josh Morgan), especially if he knew they had a bone to pick.     

I buy most of this. Still, Shanahan screwed the pooch in Seattle. As well as with some roster moves. I don't think he forgot how to coach or anything. But I do think that the owner, GM, head coach and QB were all on different volumes of a series of books, forget different pages. No one is winning like that. No one.

That's not to absolve Shanny. Just to reiterate that this franchise has been an utter mess.

Save us, McCloughan.

 

Couldn't have said it better and more succinctly, lol. My whole long post above (not the one directly above) was an attempt at saying this... you always do that to me, damnit.

[Laron Burgundy]

Reminds me of how Haslett deflected blame on to shanny for his awful defenses. Nobody likes to own up to the product on the field for this team.