Mike Shanahan Tells All on ESPN 980 (RGIII, McNabb, Manning, Haynseworth) Link included w/ Audio

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Nobody should be surprised that Dan wanted to get his little fingers into everything. It's just what he does. He seriously can't stop himself. I don't know if the official clinical diagnosis would be narcissism, megalomania, something else entirely, or some combination or disorders but the guy has a serious psychological problem.

[MattFancy]

You've never half-heartedly gone along with something your boss wanted?

 

Comparing me to Shanny doesn't quite work. There's nothing in my work that says I have full control over the business. Shanny had full control over the football operations. If Snyder came to him that early and was going against him, he could have easily just said "eff this" and hit the road.

[Burgold]

Comparing me to Shanny doesn't quite work. There's nothing in my work that says I have full control over the business. Shanny had full control over the football operations. If Snyder came to him that early and was going against him, he could have easily just said "eff this" and hit the road.

Well, first you'd wave your contract in front of him and say "remember this!  These are 35 million reasons to trust me!"

[JoeSkins]

Comparing me to Shanny doesn't quite work. There's nothing in my work that says I have full control over the business. Shanny had full control over the football operations. If Snyder came to him that early and was going against him, he could have easily just said "eff this" and hit the road.

 

Well, first you'd wave your contract in front of him and say "remember this!  These are 35 million reasons to trust me!"

 

Putting these two together to say:  there were also $35 million reasons for him to just play along.  Contracts aren't guaranteed for quitters.

 

Edit:  Why did I put the dollar sign? 

[MattFancy]

Putting these two together to say:  there were also $35 million reasons for him to just play along.  Contracts aren't guaranteed for quitters.

 

So then I have no sympathy for him. He chose money over dignity. If he didn't like how things were being run right after him being hired, then leave. Belichick didn't like what the Jets were doing and resigned there after a day. No one was making Shanny stay here if he didn't like what Bruce/Dan were doing.

[Epochalypse]

There's other possibilities to consider in all these instances.

 

Shanahan said that the 2010 team wasn't any good and Donovan McNabb wasn't going to elevate that team much anyway.

 

Do you really throw away a 35 million dollar job when you know that no matter who you get at that point isn't going to matter much?  I mean he was debating between Bulger and McNabb for crying out loud.  Whoever is brought in wasn't going to be an instant winner, and was just going to be a stop gap as the rest of the team was rebuilt and a new QB was drafted, so why throw your arms in the air about something your boss is pushing for?

 

Another theory is that Shanahan's "legendary ego" led him to believe he could win with any QB.  If that were the case, again why leave a 35 million dollar job?

 

Lastly maybe he doesn't throw a fit and walk out in the first year of his contract because what owner is going to consider him for another HC gig when at the first sign of disagreement with his boss, he jets.  Doesn't look like he can work with people above him.

 

I'm not defending Shanahan but I do find it incredulous that people can't see that there are possible scenarios that make what he said plausible.  Not 100% truth or 100% lies, but plausible.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Geez, have any of you ever been married? lol...

 

Have any of you ever been divorced?

 

Would you want everyone to take your ex-wife's version of events about you and your marriage as gospel, or at the very least believe what she's saying because "we have no reason to doubt her"?

 

I don't know how many of you know or understand this, but it is impossible to have either of the two people in a relationship speak of that relationship or the events/moments within it in an accurate way. Neither one will. Ever. All we can do is offer our perceptions. And we often act shocked--SHOCKED, I TELL YOU--when the other person doesn't hold the same perception of the relationship that we do lol...you might be able to agree that the car you bought in 2002 was a Nissan Altima, but why you bought the car can easily be perceived in a multitude of ways.

 

What this interview with Shanahan tells me, ALL it tells me, is:

 

- Shanahan wants to absolve any failings during his time here...he wants us to know it wasn't due to anything he did

 

- He perceived Snyder's relationship with Griffin was a hindrance and effected things negatively

 

That's it.

 

What it did not tell me, is:

 

- What things should be blamed directly on Shanahan (IMO a lot of it should be blamed indirectly on him since he had full control of almost everything)...because, sorry folks, it's impossible to be in a relationship--any relationship--and take NO blame for anything bad that occurs within it

 

- If his perceptions about Snyder and Griffin's relationship were accurate...just because you can imagine it being accurate doesn't mean it is accurate.

 

For 'zample:

 

Griffin says to Snyder at some point, and for whatever reason, that he eventually wants to get away from designed run plays...Snyder tells Griffin that's something that should be discussed between him and his head coach, not with the owner..."Just tell him what you told me". Griffin tells Shanahan what he told Snyder...Shanahan perceives it as Snyder taking Griffin's side and instructing the young QB to go to Shanahan and insist on changes to the offensive scheme.

 

In that scenario, nobody did anything wrong (outside of possibly Griffin telling the owner his thoughts on the plays, which--again, in that scenario, the owner corrects him when he does). But it can be perceived three different ways, depending upon who you talked to:

 

Griffin: "I just mentioned my concerns in passing to Mr. Snyder. He told me what I should do and I did it."

 

Snyder: "The kid mentioned something concerning the offense. I told him he shouldn't talk to the owner on those matters, he should talk to the head coach."

 

Shanahan: "Griffin and Snyder were apparently discussing my offensive scheme, and agreed that I needed to make changes to it. He's only been in the league one year, and the owner knows I won't accept him meddling. This won't do."

 

For this scenario above, the truth most likely is all three are right and all three are wrong at the same time.

 

No matter which one of those three did a radio interview, I would never believe their version of events as "obvious" truth, even if they took all the blame themselves.

[MattFancy]

There's other possibilities to consider in all these instances.

 

Shanahan said that the 2010 team wasn't any good and Donovan McNabb wasn't going to elevate that team much anyway.

 

Do you really throw away a 35 million dollar job when you know that no matter who you get at that point isn't going to matter much?  I mean he was debating between Bulger and McNabb for crying out loud.  Whoever is brought in wasn't going to be an instant winner, and was just going to be a stop gap as the rest of the team was rebuilt and a new QB was drafted, so why throw your arms in the air about something your boss is pushing for?

 

Another theory is that Shanahan's "legendary ego" led him to believe he could win with any QB.  If that were the case, again why leave a 35 million dollar job?

 

Lastly maybe he doesn't throw a fit and walk out in the first year of his contract because what owner is going to consider him for another HC gig when at the first sign of disagreement with his boss, he jets.  Doesn't look like he can work with people above him.

 

I'm not defending Shanahan but I do find it incredulous that people can't see that there are possible scenarios that make what he said plausible.  Not 100% truth or 100% lies, but plausible.

 

To the other HC jobs part, if he left and it was because Snyder was undermining him from the start, I don't think other teams would look down on that. It would look a whole lost worse for Snyder who was giving Shanny full control then to turn around and basically strip him of that right off the bat.

 

Again, it's not all on Shanny, but for him to come out now after the fact and say all this, I'm not sure I can buy everything. Some? Sure.

[JoeSkins]

So then I have no sympathy for him. He chose money over dignity. If he didn't like how things were being run right after him being hired, then leave. Belichick didn't like what the Jets were doing and resigned there after a day. No one was making Shanny stay here if he didn't like what Bruce/Dan were doing.

Belichick is a fairly unique situation.  Some theorize that he simply didn't have the heart to tell "Big Bill" no until he got an offer he couldn't refuse.  He left the Jets for a pay bump and promotion.

 

Like Epochalypse above me, I'm also not a defender of Shanny.  I just happen to think that nothing he claimed is impossible.

[Epochalypse]

So then I have no sympathy for him. He chose money over dignity. If he didn't like how things were being run right after him being hired, then leave. Belichick didn't like what the Jets were doing and resigned there after a day. No one was making Shanny stay here if he didn't like what Bruce/Dan were doing.

You've never done something at work that you weren't 100% on board with?

 

I have had a number of commanders I worked for that I didn't agree with some of their actions or policies; should I have just quit and moved on?  Because it seems you're suggesting that unless you find a job that you always get your way, you should keep quitting and move on to other jobs, which of course will always be there.  Which of course also implies there will always be people looking to hire people who jump from job to job at the first sign of disagreement or when those people don't get their way.

 

There's 32 NFL HC gigs.  That's it.  If you walk out on one, you will have very limited options if you still want to be a NFL HC.  And those HC jobs that do become available, are typically not prime spots, which is why they have a vacancy.

[grego]

There's other possibilities to consider in all these instances.

 

Shanahan said that the 2010 team wasn't any good and Donovan McNabb wasn't going to elevate that team much anyway.

 

Do you really throw away a 35 million dollar job when you know that no matter who you get at that point isn't going to matter much?  I mean he was debating between Bulger and McNabb for crying out loud.  Whoever is brought in wasn't going to be an instant winner, and was just going to be a stop gap as the rest of the team was rebuilt and a new QB was drafted, so why throw your arms in the air about something your boss is pushing for?

 

 

 

not sure i understand- if mike was saying we need to rebuild and a QB wasnt going to make a difference anyway, why would he be OK giving away a 2nd and third for a QB hes saying is essentially useless? makes rebuilding kinda hard, no?

[MattFancy]

You've never done something at work that you weren't 100% on board with?

 

I have had a number of commanders I worked for that I didn't agree with some of their actions or policies; should I have just quit and moved on?  Because it seems you're suggesting that unless you find a job that you always get your way, you should keep quitting and move on to other jobs, which of course will always be there.  Which of course also implies there will always be people looking to hire people who jump from job to job at the first sign of disagreement or when those people don't get their way.

 

There's 32 NFL HC gigs.  That's it.  If you walk out on one, you will have very limited options if you still want to be a NFL HC.  And those HC jobs that do become available, are typically not prime spots, which is why they have a vacancy.

 

Not saying if you don't get your way that you should leave. But if it looks like right away you're going to be underminded from your superiors, it may not be the best environment.

 

Yes, there are only 32 HC jobs, but it's not like Shanny is some scrub coach.

[JoeSkins]

[Marriage metaphor]

The only issue I take with your example is that our marriages don't have weekly press conferences or teams of journalists following us around.

not sure i understand- if mike was saying we need to rebuild and a QB wasnt going to make a difference anyway, why would he be OK giving away a 2nd and third for a QB hes saying is essentially useless? makes rebuilding kinda hard, no?

He wouldn't be OK with it, which is what he said.  He wasn't on board with the McNabb trade, allegedly.

[Epochalypse]

To the other HC jobs part, if he left and it was because Snyder was undermining him from the start, I don't think other teams would look down on that. It would look a whole lost worse for Snyder who was giving Shanny full control then to turn around and basically strip him of that right off the bat.

 

Again, it's not all on Shanny, but for him to come out now after the fact and say all this, I'm not sure I can buy everything. Some? Sure.

As long as Shanahan could prove that Dan was meddling.  But we can't.  Which is why these forums are able to provide the conspiracy theory breeding ground that they do.

 

Without that evidence and Dan coming out and saying, "yeah I meddled, it's my team so suck it" it's just Shanahan's version of things.  Which is what we have now.

 

Again, I don't say I know what happened.  But there are enough plausible scenarios that support both the idea that Shanahan was part of the problem, Snyder was part of the problem, Allen was part of the problem and RG3 was part of the problem.  I'm sure others were part of the problem too.  I could give a rat's ass which of them had the highest percentage.  For those that are left in the organization, stop being part of the damn problem.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

You've never done something at work that you weren't 100% on board with?

 

I have had a number of commanders I worked for that I didn't agree with some of their actions or policies; should I have just quit and moved on?  Because it seems you're suggesting that unless you find a job that you always get your way, you should keep quitting and move on to other jobs, which of course will always be there.

 

I took it differently...

 

It's not about "not getting your way". If you're promised a certain level of control in your position but find out almost immediately that you don't have the control that you were promised, then the job isn't what you signed up for. I know a lot of people who would quit immediately under those circumstances. They'd tell their superiors "I was promised control over this, this and this...I can't do the job to my satisfaction when that control is yanked away from me."

[mojo]

Every day it's something new with this team, even in the offseason. I'd be so psyched if we shipped RG out for a draft pick and put this entire chapter behind us.

[Epochalypse]

not sure i understand- if mike was saying we need to rebuild and a QB wasnt going to make a difference anyway, why would he be OK giving away a 2nd and third for a QB hes saying is essentially useless? makes rebuilding kinda hard, no?

According to Shanahan he wasn't.

 

No idea if he's telling the truth but that's what he said.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

The only issue I take with your example is that our marriages don't have weekly press conferences or teams of journalists following us around.

 

No, but we have relatives and friends who have more access to our marriage than the press has to the team, even without press conferences lol...

[Epochalypse]

Yes, there are only 32 HC jobs, but it's not like Shanny is some scrub coach.

Well which is it?  Is he a good coach or a scrub?

 

Right now he's just unemployed.

[MattFancy]

Hmm, so I decided to go look and see what Bulger was up to in 2010.

 

We traded for McNabb on April 4th. Bulger released from the Rams on April 5th. I thought Shanny said they tried for Bulger but he wasn't available? I would think that if the Rams were going to cut him, they wouldn't have been looking for much in return or the Skins should have just waited a smidge longer and signed him once he was released. I don't think teams were beating down the door for McNabb at the time, especially for a 2nd.

 

Something seems fishy here.

 

Bulger ended up signing in Balimore that year in June and was Flacco's backup and never saw a snap and then retired in 2011. So would Bulger have really even been a better option?

[Warhead36]

I think Shanny's goal was to bring in a veteran stopgap QB that can at least keep the ship afloat while we restock the cupboards. He wanted McNabb, just not for that price, but Allen/Snyder basically went ahead and traded the draft picks for him anyway and Shanny decided to try to make the best out of it.

[grego]

 

He wouldn't be OK with it, which is what he said.  He wasn't on board with the McNabb trade, allegedly.

 

 

According to Shanahan he wasn't.

 

No idea if he's telling the truth but that's what he said.

 

ya, i dont buy that he wasnt in on that, then. 

 

no way in hell anyone but mike is picking his QB for him. 

 

i just cant believe he would just let that happen.

Hmm, so I decided to go look and see what Bulger was up to in 2010.

 

We traded for McNabb on April 4th. Bulger released from the Rams on April 5th. I thought Shanny said they tried for Bulger but he wasn't available? I would think that if the Rams were going to cut him, they wouldn't have been looking for much in return or the Skins should have just waited a smidge longer and signed him once he was released. I don't think teams were beating down the door for McNabb at the time, especially for a 2nd.

 

Something seems fishy here.

 

Bulger ended up signing in Balimore that year in June and was Flacco's backup and never saw a snap and then retired in 2011. So would Bulger have really even been a better option?

 

good question. 

 

shannys saying he wanted bulger - a qb who was outright released- more than a QB they spent a 2nd and 3rd on?

 

makes no sense. 

 

methinks mike didnt check his facts before spinning his tale.

 

or he's just pulling a brian williams 

[Epochalypse]

I took it differently...

 

It's not about "not getting your way". If you're promised a certain level of control in your position but find out almost immediately that you don't have the control that you were promised, then the job isn't what you signed up for. I kow a lot of people who would quit immediately under those circumstances. They'd tell their superiors "I was promised control over this, this and this...I can't do the job to my satisfaction when that control is yanked away from me."

Again, that's all well and good if you can guarantee yourself you'll get another better or equivalent job when you do so.

 

Here are the HC jobs that it appears were filled in 2011 (after Shanahan's first year)

 

CAR - Ron Rivera (2-14 were a horrible team, Fox wanted out)

CLE - Pat Shurmur (they're Cleveland)

DAL - Jason Garrett (Jerry Jones boy toy, would never give Shanny the control everyone believes Snyder did)

DEN - John Fox (probably not an option to go back to)

MIN - Leslie Frazier (6-10 same record as us)

OAK - Hue Jackson (yeah no dysfunction here)

SF - Jim Harbaugh (The best option by far, went to a hot coaching prospect)

TEN - Mike Munchak (6-10 same record as us)

 

Add in that by leaving he not only doesn't have a job himself, but also puts his son in the position of not having a job.  Being able to walk out of a job on general principle is a wonderful commodity but sometimes you suck it up and try to succeed through it.

 

Let's put this in another light.  Say a quarterback gets drafted and his coach tells him he wants him to run a read option offense.  The QB has the option there to quit football right?  I mean if you don't agree with what your boss tells you to do...

[JoeSkins]

No, but we have relatives and friends who have more access to our marriage than the press has to the team, even without press conferences lol...

My point was that marital matters are private and there are typically only two viewpoints from which to pull information.  With a football team much of what happens is fairly public, so we have ways to confirm what people claim. 

 

We hear that Shanahan didn't want McNabb, and we then want to guess whether it's believable.  Well, we can look at the team's history: (1) the organization has given up high picks for over-the-hill big-name vets like Jason Taylor, (2) Snyder had previously undermined the autonomy of a seemingly unquestionable coaching authority like Marty, (3) Shanahan was pretty quick to bench a QB he supposedly wanted.

 

It's hardly a bulletproof process but we do have more than one individual's word.

 

Again, please don't think I'm in Mike's corner.  I just happen to think his account is believable this time.

[Epochalypse]

We traded for McNabb on April 4th. Bulger released from the Rams on April 5th.

Isn't it possible that the Rams had fielded calls on Bulger's availability from the Skins, wanted more than we wanted to give up for him, and then once we traded for McNabb they thought well there goes the chance to get anything for him and released him the next day?

 

Again, not saying that is what went down, but it is certainly plausible.