GHH's Observations: The Good, The Bad and The 'Meh, the Sky's NOT Falling Reality Perspective' W4: Thursday Night Nightmare.

[Thekyle1591]

Before last year he had what 0 sacks against the division (could be wrong but I know it was very few). The truth is when we have a huge game and need him to show up, he doesnt. I can't even remember more than one or two times in his career he has had a sack fumble. Sorry I just don't see him worth a sizable chunk of our salary cap. History is on my side on this. More than happy to give him 6-7 million a year, anything over that is better spent elsewhere which was def the case for this year.

I'd rather just scrap the entire 3-4 and go back to 4-3. Before the change our defense was always in the top half of the league.

Dude had 2 against Philly and 1 against Dallas in 2011.. I mean, saying he doesn't show up and then justifying that by saying he doesn't get sack fumbles is a little ridiculous, because the dude is always getting pressures and always playing great run D. Also, scrapping the 3-4 would set us back YEARS. Not a good idea.

[Zazzaro703]

Dude had 2 against Philly and 1 against Dallas in 2011.. I mean, saying he doesn't show up and then justifying that by saying he doesn't get sack fumbles is a little ridiculous, because the dude is always getting pressures and always playing great run D. Also, scrapping the 3-4 would set us back YEARS. Not a good idea.

Alright, we aren't going to agree on Orakpo. I cannot remember any huge game sealing, changing play from him when I can remember countless late 4th quarter dagger drives for the win against us. If you think he is worth 11-14 million a year, that's your opinion which you have a right to, I don't. I expect a player making that much money to do a whole lot more on a much more consistent basis. I would have much rather had offensive lineman for the right side and/or a safety for his tag money. It doesn't matter whether its Griffin or Cousins playing QB, they are setup for failure with the current right side of our line. To each their own though I respect your opinion and will let it go as we agree to disagree.

Regarding the 3-4, it is certainly possible that seeing Haslett suck year in and year out has frustration clouding my vision and soured me towards it, but I don't see what key amazing 3-4 pieces we have that would set us back switching away from it.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Before last year he had what 0 sacks against the division (could be wrong but I know it was very few) .....

 

It was 3.5 through his first 18 NFC East games but I stopped counting after that.

 

I'll look it up for you when I get a chance,

 

Hail.

[RandyHolt]

Good: Helu. Slim Pickens. Way! 

 

Bad:  Most all coaches and most all players. Too much to list.  

 

Meh:  Gruden said he was a bit overwhelmed in preseason and little appears to have changed.  He handed Haslett and Kotwica their respective parts of the team and they are failing him. Is anyone surprised? Haslett is who he is at this point in his career. Ben is a noob. Those guys need help and it appears Jay has no interest in running those aspects of the team. Jay seems overwhelmed just getting our offense uncorked. But he is a rookie dealing with injuries, so he gets a meh from me this week, especially after facing a well prepared Giants team. Eli looked like a new QB. Eli + Coughlin were both on their game. It was tough sledding for us, and it was more than Gruden's weaknesses, but did anyone really expect Gruden to out duel ole Cougher? Well, besides Vegas. 

 

OL. I was one of the few that seemed concerned about it in preseason. Morris is getting his yards but its tough sledding. Pass Pro. we have exceeded my expectations. We had a pocket for much of the game. Before all the INTs, we were in it. They get the Meh. 

 

I think that it would be good if posters offered up their Good Bad and Mehgly, before attacking a single component of someone else's GBM. Everyone just offer up their viewpoint, opposing others whose opine you do not agree with, within your own balanced post.   This is the only thread where people post in this manner. Keep it sane. Balanced Posts FTW. 

[DC9]

I'm also curious about this so called "Jay Gruden: Power Football".

 

All in good time.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Good: Helu. Slim Pickens. Way! 

 

.....

 

 

WAIT!

 

The Redskins have Slim Pickings!

 

Can he bring Mongo to play O-line?

 

Hail.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

The Redskins team we saw against the Giants is not an example of the 2014 version of the team.

 

My guess is that we'll see a hard fought close game against Seattle that starts to lean heavily in the Seahawks' direction towards the end of the 3 quarter...end up losing by 13...and half this site will act as if we just lost another game by 30+ points. Seattle is better than the Giants. The Redskins are better than they showed on Thursday.

 

Good: Helu, Paul, Morris finally in the passing game, QB "controversy" (hopefully) put on the back shelf for the rest of the season.

 

Bad: Anything I didn't list in the "Good" section lol...except...

 

Ugly: Cousins' INTs...whoo, boy, those were disastrously ugly.

 

Meh: What this loss/game means to the season and futures of Gruden, Cousins and Griffin. Doesn't really mean anything (right now). They string together a bunch of games like this and we'll talk. But for now, the game's effect on the actual team earns a big fat "Meh" from me.

[Rufus T Firefly]

WAIT!

 

The Redskins have Slim Pickings!

 

Can he bring Mongo to play O-line?

 

Hail.

Don't shoot him, that would just make him mad.

 

But I don't know what Slim Pickens is referring to either.

[Larry]

The Redskins team we saw against the Giants is not an example of the 2014 version of the team.

 

My guess is that we'll see a hard fought close game against Seattle that starts to lean heavily in the Seahawks' direction towards the end of the 3 quarter...end up losing by 13...and half this site will act as if we just lost another game by 30+ points. Seattle is better than the Giants. The Redskins are better than they showed on Thursday.

I might be more inclined to agree with you, if it weren't for all the injuries we've had.

Yeah, maybe the long week will help with that. But, the luck we've had with injuries, so far this year? Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

But yeah, if we were healthy? (If, say, RG3 were the only no show)? Yeah, I'd say we're a lot better than we showed.

[elkabong82]

As is Alfred Morris.

 

Hail.

 

Kirk Cousins' turnovers and the defense took away our run game vs. the Giants

 

We imploded, but I'm curious to see how we bounce back. The Jags are bad, though looked better today with Bortles. But that was the first time in a while we trounced a team that we were truly better than. So while we certainly are not elite, we do have talent and scheme that can play well. This is likely a growing season, we need different OL next year and better secondary, but for some reason I don't believe the team is as terrible as many feel they are right now, though their feelings are certainly understandable after such a bad loss and poor showing. 

 

Gruden seems to be a very straightforward person, so I don't see him as the kind to excuse the loss but more as the kind who will learn from it. You don't develop a top offense in the NFL if you aren't the kind who learns and adapts from bad experiences. But we'll see.

[Larry]

Yeah, but which Slim Pickens shows up?

I mean, sometimes we get Mongo. But sometimes we get

 

 

[RhodeIsland Ave]

I'll say this about Gruden: The Cincy fans were very happy to see him and his pass happy tendencies leave. Seems that years of watching him abandon the run wore on them.

[bedlamVR]

98 is disappointing me a little this year but GHH better fooball minds than me on here have been telling you for the last 18 months  you were wrong on him so it is no surprise when you single him out for special spite no one really pays attention ... The NFL is full of disappointing pass rushing DE/OLB (anyone taken before him in his draft essentially - not many have 40 sacks, 3 probowls etc etc.) 

 

If 98 keeps playing the way he has maybe we let him walk, or maybe he tests the market and comes back at a much reduced price (like Riley and Hall) but two common names thrown out there as to who could succeed him who should be starting right now had we not applied the tag were....  . Brandon Jenkins who got cut in summer apparently didn't really like football... and as far as I know i think he has had one try out since hitting the street...... and then Rob Jackson - who had a few good games in a season he was exposed as a drug cheat....and is still available ...as he was for much of the free agency period.....

 

Also people keep saying this about well the money could have been spent on free agent OL.... who ... ? Seldom do good OL free agents hit the market and big name guys miss more than they hit.. When Eric Winston got cut 3 years ago people were falling over themselves to sign him... but he has been a free agent every year since never becoming a reliable starter. Generally people are free agents for a reason - and part of my dislike of signing Lav... to play LG is it kind of discounted the prospect of any of the development guys would be competing legitimately for that starting position... if nothing else good coming out of this season we might see a decent youth movement on the offensive line...

 

I also think people are being necessary harsh on Murphy as well. The guy is getting in on plays maybe the game is going a little fast at the moment but I have seen 93 around the ball a lot in his opportunities..... patience ...

 

And while I am ranting - Can we stop with the reminiscence of how great Marty ****ing Shottenhiemer was as a coach ... in that season there multiple player only meetings, the locker room was in full revolt, almost as revolting was our offense which was comical at times (even before Tony Banks) and yes we did win 8 out of 11 after going 0-5 but the games we lost in that 8-11 run were winnable games but we were just not prepared .... Also the reason that Shottenhiemer parted company with the Skins is he would not yield on personnel power ... and specificially he would not fire his long time friend Jimmy Raye ... people also forget he went to Sandeigo and sucked the life out of that franchise until A J Smith wrestled power from him and the giants went crazy for Eli Manning ... and even then, even then with one of the most talented rosters in football did he sniff success in the post season?

 

******ahem**** going back to the actual break down of this game...

 

I think KC had a terrible game ... the problem is when KC gets rattled he gets careless and starts forcing things, it was a big flag on him in scouting reports, been a negative in his play thus far but he did have at least one drive where he did show some good things, but even where there were positive results KC did far too much back peddling, and throwing off his back foot so it is really not possible to  say good plays were a result of a good QB but a fortunate one... That said there have been far far worse from Redskins QBS...

 

other than that every aspect of the team was exposed . injuries played their parts . I think Jay is not handling things well ... but I keep re assessing this down but I still think if this team is given a chance to grow it will be good ...

[Voice_of_Reason]

First and foremost, before I get into the Ugly and Bad, this whole dream of running the ball more has got to stop.  Over the past several weeks, we have not been able to run the ball consistently.  And I really don't think that Jay has gotten away from run. He stuck with it all the way through the Eagles game, even into the last drive that started at the 41.

 

In the Giants game, they tried to run, and generally failed except for a few exception.  

 

Either the run plays  are not being called well, or the OL has regressed to a point where running the ball is no longer a strength of the team.  And we do not have a team that can afford to run-run and pass on third down.  Can't do it.

 

So, for the love of all that is holy, just stop with the "Run until we die" mantra.  In order for this team to succeed, they have to be balanced.  They have to be able to do both well. 

 

Now, onto the Ugly and the Bad:

 

Ugly.

- QB play.  Complete melt down of epic proportions

- OL play.  Couldn't get push in the run game, pass protection was ok at times, but really bad at others.  Ribs had a very "eh" game, and didn't show much of anything to stake a definitive claim to a starting spot.  And he got completely trucked and put on his ass a few times. One obvious, several other less obvious.  I think that he was worse in the run game than the pass game.  Polumbus had an awful night, and I'm done with that experiment.  If he's going to be awful, but in Moses, who might be worse, but at least has the possibility of improving.  

- DL play.  Bad effort across the board.  I think somebody might have touched Eli once.  

- Orakpo.  Ok, I get it.  If I had torn ligaments in my middle finger, I would be calling a press conference to announce my retirement.  But I'm a tech-geek-project manager, and you're a football player.  I'm sorry you're hurt, but go make a Goddamn play in a division game. Or don't play at all. I'm done with this, get out. 

-Secondary play.  I don't blame the players.  Amerson is a good young player who's not quite ready to be a #1 corner. But he's getting there.  Breeland is a 4th round draft pick who's trying as hard as he can. Clark was flying around, but can't cover 80 yards of field when others screw up.  I blame this on Bruce and the personnel department.  Going in with this group was risky, and one injury has made the entire unit a complete joke. Again.  It's pathetic and inept. 

- Gruden.  I'm not going to pick on the play calling.  But the team, to his own admission, wasn't ready to play.  Can't have that. 

 

The Bad.

- Special Teams. I don't think they were ugly this week.  But Roberts, for the love of God, stay in the endzone when you catch a kickoff 8 yards deep.  They have improved from Ugly to just bad.

- Haslett.  I'm probably the closest thing to a guy who would defend Haslett as there is on this board, in that I consistently state that with the talent that he's been given since he's gotten here, especially in the secondary, I'm not sure how much better you can expect.  That said, dude, enough already.  I believe that he was one of the ones who REALLY wanted Orakpo back.  Well, fine.  That 11 mil could have probably gone to get some better secondary players.  And while I still think he's put in a tough spot, I'm no longer really sure I care.

 

The Good.

I don't think there really was anything all that good.  I'm sure a few guys flashed. Shrug.  When you get beat that badly, it doesn't matter

 

The "I wouldn't bother playing these guys because why bother?" list:

Luavo

Chester

Polumbus

Orakpo

 

I'd also say they should limit Morris' carries to less than 10 a game, and give the additional work to Redd.  Not a reflection on Morris, but why get him beat up in another lost season?

 

I'd promote Thompson and Thomas, and find ways to get them on the field. 

 

I'm just absolutely done with this group of guys, and all of the coaches on defense.  Completely done.  

[Bonez3]

We got RG3... Build a line. Hope he develops in next 3 years. Takes time

[theTruthTeller]

We got RG3... Build a line. Hope he develops in next 3 years. Takes time

I wonder what it will cost to re-sign him?  And when do you make the move?  You can extend the time frame out using the fifth year option, but he'll be cheaper if you offer him a contract before the beginning of next year.

[darrelgreenie]

First and foremost, before I get into the Ugly and Bad, this whole dream of running the ball more has got to stop.  Over the past several weeks, we have not been able to run the ball consistently.  And I really don't think that Jay has gotten away from run. He stuck with it all the way through the Eagles game, even into the last drive that started at the 41.

 

In the Giants game, they tried to run, and generally failed except for a few exception.  

 

Either the run plays  are not being called well, or the OL has regressed to a point where running the ball is no longer a strength of the team.  And we do not have a team that can afford to run-run and pass on third down.  Can't do it.

 

So, for the love of all that is holy, just stop with the "Run until we die" mantra.  In order for this team to succeed, they have to be balanced.  They have to be able to do both well.

Scratching my head. "Over the past several weeks we have not been able to run the ball well"? Really?

 

"In the Giants game, they tried to run, and generally failed except for a few exception."

17 atts 5.1 ypc for 86

 

If there is one thing this OL is good at its ZBS that what it was built for and that is what the OL is good at. Plus we have a stable of backs that is deep with Morris, Helu and Redd.

If the running game isn't the strength of this team, especially right now. I don't know what is....

And especially against the Giants who played almost light in the box for most of the game that I saw, they were inviting us to run and we didn't do it.

 

And please stop with the run-run-pass argument no one is asking for that. Using run-run-pass is such a gross simplification of the playcalling process I usually ignore it when you say it, but its wrong. That is nowhere close to the decision making process NFL teams use.

 

Jay already admitted that he didn't call enough runs in an earlier game and I think he would feel the same about the Giants game. Jay's inability/approach towards the running game is something that warrants a close watch going forward.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

98 is disappointing me a little this year but GHH better fooball minds than me on here have been telling you for the last 18 months  you were wrong on him so it is no surprise when you single him out for special spite no one really pays attention ...

 

*Mind. Singular. And he at least agrees he's not worth the tag. But that's for another thread.

 

And he was singled out for no more 'special spite' (cute) than anyone else in our alleged pass rush.

 

Don't get caught up in the kids B/S.

 

Hail.

[stp240]

GHH I agree 100% on Orakpo but after watching the game again,  Eli did get the ball out in under 3 seconds on every pass play.  Even free blitzers couldn't hit him because he was too quick getting the ball away.  I blame the defensive game planning with CB's 10 yards off. Then Meriweather and Riley for getting exposed in coverage all game long.

[my_friend_goo]

GHH I agree 100% on Orakpo but after watching the game again,  Eli did get the ball out in under 3 seconds on every pass play.  Even free blitzers couldn't hit him because he was too quick getting the ball away.  I blame the defensive game planning with CB's 10 yards off. Then Meriweather and Riley for getting exposed in coverage all game long.

 

It has been well documented that the Giants wanted to get Eli passing witha high completion % this year and they explicitly stated they would achieve this by getting the ball out of his hands quickly. When you give receivers a big cushion, they've got space, those passes come out remarkably easy and there's no-one in touching distance to make a play on the ball, just to wrap up. That's no way to play defense AT ALL, let alone when you surely know that's what they're going to do.

 

You want to know the worst thing about that? I first became aware of this issue on our defense back in 2007, when Tom Brady took advantage of this to devestating effect. I could only listen to the game on the radio, but the broadcasters were lamenting the huge amount of space being given and taken advantage of by the Patriots' receivers. To make things worse, this was back in the day when we supposedly had an effective defense under Gregg Williams. How can the same issue, as true today as it was 7 years ago, not have been addressed?

 

As I've already stated in another thread, Monday night's game is going to be a masterclass in how and how not to play defense. Seattle's defenders swarm around receivers and make their lives hell. Ours provide a friendly escort service before finally making the tackle after the catch. I just hope the team can find a way to keep Cousins effective - but his limited showing in the playoff game coupled with Thursday's performance doesn't fill me with hope.

[Commander Adama]

Full disclosure. I had grave reservations about both the LB's and the DB's

 

Ok that's really creepy. Why would you make funeral arrangements for them?!

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Scratching my head. "Over the past several weeks we have not been able to run the ball well"? Really?

"In the Giants game, they tried to run, and generally failed except for a few exception."

17 atts 5.1 ypc for 86

If there is one thing this OL is good at its ZBS that what it was built for and that is what the OL is good at. Plus we have a stable of backs that is deep with Morris, Helu and Redd.

If the running game isn't the strength of this team, especially right now. I don't know what is....

And especially against the Giants who played almost light in the box for most of the game that I saw, they were inviting us to run and we didn't do

DG, you're one if my favorite posters, but in this case the stats are misleading.

For both the eagles and giants games, the running game was extremely inconsistent. They ripped off a few 15+ yard runs, but they had more runs if -2 to 2 yards. At least that's my memory. I'll go back and get the run by run breakdown.

My point is that the running game has been inconsistent. And has put them behind the chains a number of times.

Id love for them to run more, but what my eyes are seeing is that the zone blocking is nowhere near as good as it was, and the push is lacking.

With that said, the exception was the Houston game. They were running extremely well in that game and got away from it a bit.

But the last 2 games, it's been very inconsistent.

The solution, in my opinion, is not to run more, but to run more consistently.

I also think Roberts presence helps the running game quite a bit, and he's not there right now.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I wonder what it will cost to re-sign him? And when do you make the move? You can extend the time frame out using the fifth year option, but he'll be cheaper if you offer him a contract before the beginning of next year.

They won't do anything with him in his 4th year. Then they'll decide to pay him, pick up his option, or let him leave.

[theTruthTeller]

They won't do anything with him in his 4th year. Then they'll decide to pay him, pick up his option, or let him leave.

They need to pick up the option by May 3 of next year.  I've read different things about the ramifications of picking up the option: (1) that it becomes guaranteed immediately and (2) that it becomes guaranteed the following March, except for injuries which would prevent the player from playing in his fifth year.  I don't know which is right.

 

I'm guessing the cost of the extension would be in the $10-13M range for RG3. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Rich Tandler's article over the weekend to me was spot on which is the Gruden has to overcome a losing culture and change it.  For a team with such a history of losing, we seem to have a lot of brash players and coaches over the years -- between Rexy predicting a division win, Garcon saying we might have the best offense ever, to Orkapo constantly saying he's elite and has nothing to prove, to Shanny saying the Redskins have a top 5 defense in 2012, its just injuries precluding it (what was the excuse in 2013 when all was healthy?) and Shanny pre 2013 saying its Superbowl or bust.    There is a lot of celebrating before the fact.  You don't see that for example out of a Belichick team.

 

One of the things that Trent Williams and Bruce Allen alluded to post the 2013 season was the team was complacent and feeling too good about themselves before the season started as if they arrived.   My fear before the Giants game and I stated it on the prediction thread is that game is the type of game same old same old Redskins lose.   They teased and played well the game before albeit in a loss.  Now, they got another game prime time against a division foe -- same old same old Redskins would come out flat feeling like they've arrived already where all they need to do is show up.   Reading Gruden's quotes post game, seemed like what he was saying was well we thought we'd just show up and play like we did against the Eagles.  We were banged up, couldn't practice much so we just counted on it, it didn't work, I'll know better next time.   The thing I like about Gruden is unlike his predecessor, I do think he learns from his mistakes partly because he isn't arrogant like Shanny.  And he doesn't make excuses like Shanny. 

 

I know talking about "culture" is an amorphous thing, hard to quantify, and  the teams issues run deeper.  But yeah I don't know how to put into words but as a long time suffering Redskins fan, sometimes I feel like I can just feel a loss or win in advance based on having a pulse of what the team is saying.    And as Tandler saying, he saw too much celebrating over a loss -- post Eagles game.  Cooley said the next day that two Redskins told him, we don't understand we thought we turned the corner, we thought we were good, and then this.

 

My thought is they need to learn to play with an edge week in and week out and stop celebrating tease games.  This team year in and year out teased plenty, we almost beat the Saints back when they were undefeated, heck even had the Patriots on the run, that year with the Brandon Banks pass, on and on.  Felt like heck, great things maybe to come, but they didn't come, a loss is a loss.     As its being pointed out in another thread maybe the problem with this team is it hasn't totally bottomed out (came close last year but there were context and excuses for it) we tend to have those tease games to make us think we are on the verge.  

 

If the Redskins stay on script other things to count on is they will pull of some upset game in the near future, followed almost immediately by us being shockingly upset at home by someone.   Maybe we go 5-11 but see enough flashes to think the best is yet to come with a good draft and a few acquisitions.  And the cycle goes on.  My point is I really like to see Gruden do something about it, I know its not easy, but I do think there is a culture of losing with this team -- and its a very unique version  of it -- and that is we don't feel like a bad team because we can hang our hats on tease performances and tease games.  Heck didn't we have a three season stretch where we beat the eventual Superbowl winner?  I recall Fletcher celebrating that on NFL Network one time, saying hey we beat the Ravens and they won the Superbowl as if its a big accomplishment.