Pedro Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 If you can get a superstar QB, you do it. You don't wait until you have everything in place, because when you do, such a QB almost surely will not be available. Plus, we already had our LT in place at least. And the regime had invested heavily in Brown and Chester. When the QB is there you get him, next up is trashing all other plans you had and sorting out the OL. A good OL allows for somewhat of a running game and allows the physical beatings to be dished out to the D rather than your QB whilst the FO go about their job of providing a full roster of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowledge316 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I wouldn't say the trade has hurt us. The FO and scouting department/player development is just poor here. You don't need five first rounders on your OL to protect the QB. I doubt any team has that. This organization drafted five OL in the top 3 rounds in the past few years. Williams (top 5 pick), Rinehart (3rd, starter for Chargers), LeRibs (3rd, 3rd year and still a backup), Long (3rd, inactive in every game), and Moses (3rd, inactive in every game). From those five picks, 2-3 should be starting by now. The failure to do so lies on poor player development/scouting department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 When the QB is there you get him, next up is trashing all other plans you had and sorting out the OL. A good OL allows for somewhat of a running game and allows the physical beatings to be dished out to the D rather than your QB whilst the FO go about their job of providing a full roster of talent. The fact of the matter is that we paid a very high price for him. It was the nature of the situation. We paid more for him than any other team was willing to pay for him (or anybody else that they might want to take with the #2 pick that year). Any time you do that, the upside of the situation is likely very limited unless you know more than most everybody else and if you are a bad team paying the max amount for resources can't make you good unless you get lucky and most everybody else was wrong even though you didn't really know more than them. It seems unlikely now that we knew more than everybody else, and we haven't gotten lucky with the move either. If you are bad and you make a move like that, in order to become good, you are going to have to find other pieces cheaply/luckily else where and that's going to take time, knowing more about situations than most everybody else, and/or being lucky. And once you have given that much up for your stud QB, it is hard to practice things that you need to in order to be lucky/find talent cheaply. That likely means likely playing inferior pieces elsewhere at the risk of your QB. Now, if your QB/coaching staff has the body/attitude/intelligence that allows him/them to survive that time, that's great (and the body part at least as near as I can tell would largely be luck (though I think in RGIII's case there were signs that should have raised some flags (i.e. his college injuries))). If not, then you have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I wouldn't say the trade has hurt us. The FO and scouting department/player development is just poor here. You don't need five first rounders on your OL to protect the QB. I doubt any team has that. This organization drafted five OL in the top 3 rounds in the past few years. Williams (top 5 pick), Rinehart (3rd, starter for Chargers), LeRibs (3rd, 3rd year and still a backup), Long (3rd, inactive in every game), and Moses (3rd, inactive in every game). From those five picks, 2-3 should be starting by now. The failure to do so lies on poor player development/scouting department. Well, Rinehart was the regime before Shananhan's pick and is starting. The problem was that he didn't fit Shanahan's zone blocking scheme. That is one problem with changing regimes on a consistent basis. Out of curiosity, what is the success rate on OL taken in the 3rd round? I did 2013. 4 out of 6 are starting, and I think the starting rate last year was the same making it seem like that out of Leribs, Morgan, and Long we should have at least on starter. Anybody want to do 2012 or 2014? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Rg3 trade lol. If you really think rg3 is what is wrong with this team, then you're part of the problem. Agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 We could have built this team with a franchise QB and all of our draft picks, or a franchise QB and enough cap space to fill our holes in FA. Decided RG3 was the guy and pulled the trigger assuming we'd be able to hit FA hard to make the team better. I seriously doubt we make that trade if we knew the cap penalty was coming. That blindsided us. The fact that they waited until after we gave up two extra years of 1st is worse than the penalty itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I get that. But you still can't sit him a year. You don't give up that much for a project. I do agree that the read option is probably the worst thing to ever happen to him, if that's what you're implying. The read option was detrimental to his development (and health). But he's also a guy who would have greatly benefitted from some work on his general throwing mechanics and working from the pocket. And he needed to get ready to run a pro-style offense, which he hadn't done. You can't spend the time required to fix those kinds of things if you're game-planning and preparing to win games as a starter every week. Plus, when you don't have all those things down pat and you're under pressure to win what you're going to end up falling back on is your atheletism. And learning to always try to run and make things happen with your legs is a bad habit to learn. You draft a guy like Griffin with the potential for him to be your QB for 15 years and lead you to multiple Super Bowls. An organization that decides that developing and protecting that investment for the long-term should take a back seat to thinking "we have to get something out of him right away is a loser organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 The post is revisionist but that doesn't detract from the merit. We didn't know what we were buying at the time. Now, we see we swapped a high first round pick, traded a high round 2nd in 2012, slightly below mid level 1st in 2013 and a high pick last year for a QB who's greatest asset is his mobility. With Robert going on his 3rd major injury (causing him to miss almost half the season is significant) you have to admit that it set the team back now. If that trade had been for Andrew Luck (again having the value of hindsight) then you can make a case for the trade. Who else here wonders if maybe we didn't outbid ourselves (AGAIN) for Robert? I wonder how many teams were truly set on drafting Robert. There were rumors before the draft that Kyle wasn't keen on drafting Robert. Neither was he too happy about Johnny football either. This move now smells like Dan Snyder and his desire to sell jerseys and make money. He no doubt loves the Redskins but I think he loves money more. The Seahawks (with player personnel who left the Redskins) played it smart. Drafted what came do them and 'settled' for Russell Wilson. They were able to surround him with enough talent to get him a Super Bowl win. Granted, they didn't know at the time what a special player they had. But no one ever does until you get a player into your building and see how he adapts. It's a sad fact to realize that the Redskins could be as feared as the Seahawks instead of that team that every fan likes to come watch their own team because they're pretty sure they'll get a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Russell Wilson would be struggingly here as well. No matter what we chose to do in that draft the cap penalty was still going to happen. This hurt us far more than any trading of draft choices. We've had several first round draft choices throughout the years that simply didn't pan out or are playing for other teams now. Griffin was our best chance to improve our QB position and they went for it. They didn't do this to sell jerseys, they did it because the fanbase wasn't going to accept another Ramsey/Campbell late first round project. Seattle was already well on their way to building a beast of a team before Wilson got there. The foundation was already there and Wilson just went along for the ride. He's a damn talented kid but I don't believe he's an elite QB who can win it all by himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Russell Wilson would be struggingly here as well. No matter what we chose to do in that draft the cap penalty was still going to happen. This hurt us far more than any trading of draft choices. We've had several first round draft choices throughout the years that simply didn't pan out or are playing for other teams now. Griffin was our best chance to improve our QB position and they went for it. They didn't do this to sell jerseys, they did it because the fanbase wasn't going to accept another Ramsey/Campbell late first round project. Seattle was already well on their way to building a beast of a team before Wilson got there. The foundation was already there and Wilson just went along for the ride. He's a damn talented kid but I don't believe he's an elite QB who can win it all by himself. You're kinda making my point. Seattle was well on their way because good teams don't mortgage their future any more. They built a team that was solid enough that they didn't need an elite QB. And really, how many truly elite QB's are there in the league anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 The fact of the matter is that we paid a very high price for him. We did, but my point was that once drafted we should have put OL above everything else not share the resources around the roster. Your franchise QB not getting beaten down is paramount imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkeyBoy Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I don't believe he's an elite QB who can win it all by himself. I don't think there's any QB in the NFL capable of putting a bad team on his back and winning the super bowl at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 You're kinda making my point. Seattle was well on their way because good teams don't mortgage their future any more. They built a team that was solid enough that they didn't need an elite QB. And really, how many truly elite QB's are there in the league anyways? Pete Carroll was handed two first round picks when he started building the team. He traded away draft choices for Charlie Whitehurst, Tavaris Jackson, Lendale White and a few other players that didn't work out. He simply lucked out when drafting defensive backs. With the exception of Earl Thomas no one expected Richard Sherman, Brandon Browner and Kam Chancellor to end up forming an elite secondary. He got Marshawn Lynch for next to nothing and they've hit on the majority of their free agent signings. There was a lot of luck involved in how the Seahawks built their roster but I'm pretty sure Carroll was dealing draft choices away like crazy when he first got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Trashman Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I don't think there's any QB in the NFL capable of putting a bad team on his back and winning the super bowl at this point. I would disagree with your statement. RG3 was well on his way to doing just this in 2012 before he got side railed with his injury. Heck, if his leg had been more stable, the team would have been up 21-0 against Seattle but his throw to Garcon was compromised by the weakness in his knee at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkeyBoy Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I would disagree with your statement.2012 does not equal "At this point" and I say that as a huge Griffin fan. A healthy Griffin wouldn't be able to overcome the terrible defense and special teams we have to go all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Trashman Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 2012 does not equal "At this point" and I say that as a huge Griffin fan. A healthy Griffin wouldn't be able to overcome the terrible defense and special teams we have to go all the way. You're contradicting yourself because your "at this point" is technically BETTER than the "2012 point" if we had to do a stare and compare. The 2012 offense, defense and special teams were arguably worse than what we have "at this point"....and RG3 still managed to galvanize the team to an improbable string of wins until his injury became a major problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knighthonor Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 You're kinda making my point. Seattle was well on their way because good teams don't mortgage their future any more. They built a team that was solid enough that they didn't need an elite QB. And really, how many truly elite QB's are there in the league anyways?I disagree. 2013 Payton Manning wouldn't survive as an elite QB on the Redskins. No elite QB would be elite here on the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Right now this trade is a disaster. We lack talent and elite players. With those picks we possibly could've had a few elite players. A 3 win team w/out the 2nd pick in the draft hurts. To me Griffin was not any better in college than Wilson. The Redskins got caught up in his 40 times and pro day, rather than how his game would measure up to the NFL game. He was worth a top ten or top five pick, but not worth multiple high draft picks. Hopefully one day, he can prove the naysayers (myself) wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prototype Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I'm sorry, but losing A NET of 3 picks and the trade as a whole isn't hurting this franchise. The ineptness of finding quality players with all the other picks is what's hurting this franchise. So that's on the FO, not on the trade itself. You don't need 1st rounds to find good players. This thread is fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Again, you all really think this front office is competent to draft well? So what if they have all their picks, they probably would've drafted 7 punters from division II schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I'm sorry, but losing A NET of 3 picks and the trade as a whole isn't hurting this franchise. The ineptness of finding quality players with all the other picks is what's hurting this franchise. So that's on the FO, not on the trade itself. You don't need 1st rounds to find good players. This thread is fail. It is hurting because you could have drafted another QB and kept all the picks. They're banking on RG3 being a superstar. The last two years he's proven to be anything but that. Look at all the young QB's that were drafted w/out mortgaging the future....Luck, Kap, Wilson, Newton, Bridgewater, Tannehill, Foles, Carr, Manuel, Bortles. The Redskins love to overpay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prototype Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 It is hurting because you could have drafted another QB and kept all the picks. They're banking on RG3 being a superstar. The last two years he's proven to be anything but that. Look at all the young QB's that were drafted w/out mortgaging the future....Luck, Kap, Wilson, Newton, Bridgewater, Tannehill, Foles, Carr, Manuel, Bortles. The Redskins love to overpay. Knowing this FO, we would've drafted Tannehill and still missed in almost every pick after that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Knowing this FO, we would've drafted Tannehill and still missed in almost every pick after that True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 It is hurting because you could have drafted another QB and kept all the picks. They're banking on RG3 being a superstar. The last two years he's proven to be anything but that. Look at all the young QB's that were drafted w/out mortgaging the future....Luck, Kap, Wilson, Newton, Bridgewater, Tannehill, Foles, Carr, Manuel, Bortles. The Redskins love to overpay. But literally none of those guys are better than Griffin at the moment with the exception of Luck, Newton and Wilson. Luck and Newton were the first overall picks in the draft which we never had a shot at and Wilson is on a ridiculously stacked team. You can continue acting like our situations are the same as those but they aren't and never were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Part of this fan base hurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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