BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 In fact, one of your main points from the post was basically that you can't fault the team for taking a gamble... well this was in the OP: I'll never fault them for making the move because risks are necessary but my goodness this team seems cursed. Nothing ever works out. Ever. Injuries had to happen to our guy...because we're the ****ing Redskins. So did you actually read the OP? Or nah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Cuz I started the thread my guy you started the post off with a childish remark of me being a "basher" just cuz I'm no longer sold on Robert Griffin III. No need to read your book after that little gem Your choice. You can say what you want but I'm judging you by your posting history not your statements about how much of an RG3 fan you were. But I've left my words there for you and your anti-RG3 possie to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Your choice. You can say what you want but I'm judging you by your posting history not your statements about how much of an RG3 fan you were. But I've left my words there for you and your anti-RG3 possie to see. Yeah my posting history, right? Where I've been just as critical of KC as I have of RG3. k. You got it. And once again the childish move of establishing an "Us vs. them" dynamic with the posse line. Jeez people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 In fact, one of your main points from the post was basically that you can't fault the team for taking a gamble... well this was in the OP: I'll never fault them for making the move because risks are necessary but my goodness this team seems cursed. Nothing ever works out. Ever. Injuries had to happen to our guy...because we're the ****ing Redskins. So did you actually read the OP? Or nah? I question what you'd do instead? You speak of the holes on this team supposedly because of the trade, but if we don't make the trade, we're even more likely to have a hole at the QB position. So what then? Would this thread then been hating on the FS & RT & ILB that we got saying that it could have been a franchise QB? Every team has holes, but star players create mismatches that help the team to win with what they have so it no longer becomes about "we lost because of _____" but "he helped us to win in spite of _____". Other than RG3, Wilson, maybe Tannehill, maybe Foles and maybe Glennon, there aren't many people who have shown that property in this league that we could have gotten to play QB for us. Yeah my posting history, right? Where I've been just as critical of KC as I have of RG3. k. You got it. And once again the childish move of establishing an "Us vs. them" dynamic with the posse line. Jeez people... If you say so. I didn't know you'd take it that personally. I put a lot of time into that post, so if you don't want to discuss it, its cool with me and I'll just go back to watching football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 I question what you'd do instead? You speak of the holes on this team supposedly because of the trade, but if we don't make the trade, we're even more likely to have a hole at the QB position. So what then? Would this thread then been hating on the FS & RT & ILB that we got saying that it could have been a franchise QB? Every team has holes, but star players create mismatches that help the team to win with what they have so it no longer becomes about "we lost because of _____" but "he helped us to win in spite of _____". Other than RG3, Wilson, maybe Tannehill, maybe Foles and maybe Glennon, there aren't many people who have shown that property in this league that we could have gotten to play QB for us. If you say so. I didn't know you'd take it that personally. I put a lot of time into that post, so if you don't want to discuss it, its cool with me and I'll just go back to watching football. No because we wouldn't have paid a king's ransom for them. It was a mistake. Plain and simple. I was totally on board with it. I vividly remember the night the trade was announced. I was ecstatic. BUT I'm just a fan and I'm not paid to make those calls. I'd rather be "just a QB away" than be "Just everything away" lol. But that's the benefit of hindsight. Tannehill, just as an example, is not a horrible QB. He just has very little talent around him. Giving him Morris and Garcon may have yielded decent results and less injury concerns. Certainly not on the level of 2012 RG3 but better over the long term. My roommate is Phins fan so I keep up with them a lot I do think that this proves that deals such as these are never wise investments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 In fact, one of your main points from the post was basically that you can't fault the team for taking a gamble... well this was in the OP: I'll never fault them for making the move because risks are necessary but my goodness this team seems cursed. Nothing ever works out. Ever. Injuries had to happen to our guy...because we're the ****ing Redskins. So did you actually read the OP? Or nah? I get that you're not faulting them but I think a lot of posters jumped beyond that. Their basic point is, regardless of what you think of the deal, that what has hurt the team is not the trade and seemed like you succumbing to some residuum of fan retrospective depression but other aspects of the organization or how decisions are made. I actually do like a lot of our picks and I think we'll begin to see improvements over the next couple of years, but we may have to be careful how we draft in a particular area, or somehow upgrade our scouting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Again, these are all late round picks with a very small percentage for success. Niles Paul, Perry Riley, Alfred Morris, Ryan Grant and Roy Helu have been pretty damn good picks. You aren't going to hit on all of them. All those guys I listed are out of the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 One things for sure... a lot of you couldn't be brokers... first sign of trouble and ya'll are like Mortimer from trading places " Sell, sell...Sell!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestTeamEver Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I don't think RG is done yet. Let's revisit this in a couple of years. We have a first rounder this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 All those guys I listed are out of the NFL Most people think of Seattle as the best drafting team in the NFL these days. Here are their draft picks after the 4th round for the last three years: Korey Toomer, Jeremy Lane, Winston Guy, JR Sweezy, Greg Scruggs, Jesse Williams, Tharold Simon, Luke Wilson, Spencer Ware, Ryan Seymour, Ty Powell, Jared Smith, Michael Bowie, Jimmy Staten, Garrett Scott, Eric Pinkins, Kiero Small. Wilson has 21 career catches with 1 TD and he is by far the most productive of those picks. The majority of the rest have already been cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 2012 Offseason Peyton Manning. We didn't stand a chance in this one as he hand picked the team he wanted and EVERY team without a franchise QB would have wanted him as their franchise QB. Where are you getting your info, Peyton and Shanny are close friends and its well documented that Peyton was surprised when Elway told him the Skins just traded picks away for the 2nd pick in the draft. "Elway told Manning, “Whoa—Washington just traded for the second pick. Looks like they’ll get RG3.” “What!?” Manning said, stunned. We were in play for Peyton, sure Denver had more talent but Shanny had a tight relationship with Peyton and with Danny's wallet we could have made it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxpunk2006 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I don't know why people are constantly bringing this up. It's completely irrelevant what the Rams have done with the picks we gave them. It's really not. While it isn't certain that the Redskins would have had the same (lack) of success as the Rams it is evidence that a stockpile of high draft picks does not guarantee success. We were in play for Peyton, sure Denver had more talent but Shanny had a tight relationship with Peyton and with Danny's wallet we could have made it happen. I think Peyton gave us the time of day because of respect for/relationship with Shanahan but he was never going to join the same division as his brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You'reNext Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 This tendency must have influenced the Snyder-led front office when they decided they still needed a "franchise" QB of the future, -- as you recall they traded up for Campbell. Part of this was the valid desire for a quality QB prospect -- but more importantly it was important for Snyder to have a "marketable" quality player. And what better way to make the case the Skins had acquired a franchise quality player, than pointing to the price it cost to obtain the player?(Unfortunately, Campbell turned out to be less than what Snyder and his coaches were looking for; the search was on again.) This is the problem. Every move by Snyder is made to sell tickets. New coach, new big money free agent to try to get the fan base excited for the next season. The problem with this strategy is there's a salary cap. So if you spend all your money overpaying for one high profile free agent or draft pick that leaves you little money left to fill the rest of the roster. Snyder gives the appearance that he is willing to spend big and is passionate about winning with this strategy but really the main thing that results from this strategy is selling tickets. If anything the strategy hurts creating a championship team because you are overpaying with draft kicks or salary cap. There really is no long term planning. And this isn't basketball so getting one superstar does not overcome the deficincies created at the other 21 plus positions. The only way to really change this pattern is to stop supporting the Skins and force Snyder to sell the team or put a winning product on the field. As long as fans are willing to make him rich by fielding losing teams there is little incentive to change the strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 The only way to really change this pattern is to stop supporting the Skins and force Snyder to sell the team or put a winning product on the field. As long as fans are willing to make him rich by fielding losing teams there is little incentive to change the strategy. I will be kind...or try to be. The absolute silliest concept is to think you can make a professional sports owner sell their team. It's the dumbest idea ever posted on any message board ever. Barring a LA Clippers racist outburst, TEAM OWNERS DON'T SELL. So you are either asking them to relocate and lose our team or you just stop watching the sport or become a Ravens fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 This is the problem. Every move by Snyder is made to sell tickets. New coach, new big money free agent to try to get the fan base excited for the next season. The problem with this strategy is there's a salary cap. So if you spend all your money overpaying for one high profile free agent or draft pick that leaves you little money left to fill the rest of the roster. Snyder gives the appearance that he is willing to spend big and is passionate about winning with this strategy but really the main thing that results from this strategy is selling tickets. If anything the strategy hurts creating a championship team because you are overpaying with draft kicks or salary cap. There really is no long term planning. And this isn't basketball so getting one superstar does not overcome the deficincies created at the other 21 plus positions. The only way to really change this pattern is to stop supporting the Skins and force Snyder to sell the team or put a winning product on the field. As long as fans are willing to make him rich by fielding losing teams there is little incentive to change the strategy. Okay so we're back to blaming Snyder? The Redskins have been losers since the beginning of the free agency era. They sucked long before Snyder bought the team. I'm not absolving him of anything but he sure as hell wasn't the start of this downfall. He didn't trade multiple draft choices for Howard and Shuler. He didn't draft Michael Westbrook or an first round DT that they wanted to make an OT who never played a down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You'reNext Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Okay so we're back to blaming Snyder? The Redskins have been losers since the beginning of the free agency era. They sucked long before Snyder bought the team. I'm not absolving him of anything but he sure as hell wasn't the start of this downfall. He didn't trade multiple draft choices for Howard and Shuler. He didn't draft Michael Westbrook or an first round DT that they wanted to make an OT who never played a down. It was always about Snyder, so I'm not sure why you think we're back to it. My stance against him has been consistent. I've never pointed the finger at RGIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You'reNext Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I will be kind...or try to be. The absolute silliest concept is to think you can make a professional sports owner sell their team. It's the dumbest idea ever posted on any message board ever. Barring a LA Clippers racist outburst, TEAM OWNERS DON'T SELL. So you are either asking them to relocate and lose our team or you just stop watching the sport or become a Ravens fan. You are the consumer. The consumer has the right to speak with their pocketbooks when the product being put out is unacceptable. Fool me once shame on me. Fool me twice . . . As long as you keep supporting this regime it will continue to be the loveable losers like the Chicago Cubs have become. (And even the Cubs eventually were force to change ownership when the Tribune company sold them off). It's a little bit of the sky is falling mentality to assume that if we don't support the Redskins that the team will be relocated. That is what the owners what you to think but it's not going to happen. Football will not leave the DMV so there's no need to worry abou that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 It was always about Snyder, so I'm not sure why you think we're back to it. My stance against him has been consistent. I've never pointed the finger at RGIII. We've sucked since Beatherd left. Gibbs was making terrible personnel decisions and Casserly continued that tradition when he fully took over. Snyder hasn't been amazing by any stretch of the imagination but he pours tons of money back into this team and the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 We've sucked since Beatherd left. Gibbs was making terrible personnel decisions and Casserly continued that tradition when he fully took over. Snyder hasn't been amazing by any stretch of the imagination but he pours tons of money back into this team and the stadium. You'reNext you are ignoring the point that the team sucked when JackKentCooke died and left John in charge. John was horrible and so was our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rskin72 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Ok....first I ever heard that Peyton was "surprised" to discover (via Elway) that we had traded to get the #2 pick in the draft. I HAVE heard that he listened to our proposition, but would most likely never play in the SAME DIVISION as his brother. That makes sense to me.....regardless of the wallet size of Dan, which only matters as far as how much salary cap we had at the time. Also agree to a point with yournext....regardless of the salary cap limiting spending on players, there is NO excuse for an owner that claims to be a lifetime fan of the team, who has $$$ and claims wants to have championship teams again, NOT to have top flight training facilities, training camp, indoor/outdoor practice facilities, top notch training staff, top notch scouting team, and top notch coaching staff. Would seem to me that Shanny made several of those items happen......but we still have several questions especially with our scouting department both for college, and FA. And, I still think the Robert trade was a worthwhile roll of the dice......and we have already seem some benefits via a NFCE title in his rookie season that we had not claimed since '99. Coincidence of drafting a playmaking QB in that same season? And, there is absolutely no guarantee that we would have drafted correctly and picked up X amount of starters IF the Robert trade had not have occurred.....certainly a lot of Monday morning QBing going on with that discussion. And, at the end of the day, as Thinking Skins laid out, who would have been our QB then? I was at FEDEX for the Rex Grossman/John Beck year in '11......and that year sucked even worse than now because we all knew that Beck was not an NFL caliber QB, and Rex was a turnover machine (kind of like KC has seemed to show thusfar). At least this season we have 2 QB's who still have several question marks around their play, and maybe we leave this season with more certainty at that position.....whichever way that turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I was at FEDEX for the Rex Grossman/John Beck year in '11......and that year sucked even worse than now because we all knew that Beck was not an NFL caliber QB, and Rex was a turnover machine (kind of like KC has seemed to show thusfar). At least this season we have 2 QB's who still have several question marks around their play, and maybe we leave this season with more certainty at that position.....whichever way that turns out. Well that is no argument. Even someone who didn't understand football knew the Beckman/Gross experiment was about as stupid of a QB play in the history of the Nations Football Lifestyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50yrSKINSfan Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I would never have made the trade to get RG111. It seemed so desperate. I mean it takes no brains to give away the farm for a unproven kid out of school esp if the kid does not play in a pro style offence. I thought one player is not worth 3 no1's as that player could get hurt and never play again so your team is set back 5 yrs at least. I thought our team had too many holes and getting a young QB would not work with a bad OL etc. I listened to many experts say first build a great O LINE. Next get a good defense and most important get 2 great corners and some pass rushers. You also need good kickers that can hit long field goals and punters who can pin back the other team. Then get a good QB. Well the Redskins did not do it that way and they have nothing now. Not even our prize QB. Yes we have great receivers but even those guys can't get open when the other team plays 7 back and rushes the passer on every down because our defense can't stop anyone and we are always behind. During his first year I was thinking how wrong I was. Robert made the rest of the team play better and I never thought that could happen. He told Steve Young he could run that offence 5 more years so I was thinking maybe the trade was ok. After he got hurt I was shocked to find out he already had a repaired knee and we still drafted him? Then he comes back and we want to make a pocket passer out of him? Guess if the Redskins drafted Nolan Ryan they would want to make him into a junk ball pitcher. I am now wondering if we will ever recover. I live in Giant and Eagle land and they do nothing but laugh at the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You'reNext Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I would never have made the trade to get RG111. It seemed so desperate. I mean it takes no brains to give away the farm for a unproven kid out of school esp if the kid does not play in a pro style offence. I thought one player is not worth 3 no1's as that player could get hurt and never play again so your team is set back 5 yrs at least. I thought our team had too many holes and getting a young QB would not work with a bad OL etc. I listened to many experts say first build a great O LINE. Next get a good defense and most important get 2 great corners and some pass rushers. You also need good kickers that can hit long field goals and punters who can pin back the other team. Then get a good QB. Well the Redskins did not do it that way and they have nothing now. Not even our prize QB. Yes we have great receivers but even those guys can't get open when the other team plays 7 back and rushes the passer on every down because our defense can't stop anyone and we are always behind. During his first year I was thinking how wrong I was. Robert made the rest of the team play better and I never thought that could happen. He told Steve Young he could run that offence 5 more years so I was thinking maybe the trade was ok. After he got hurt I was shocked to find out he already had a repaired knee and we still drafted him? Then he comes back and we want to make a pocket passer out of him? Guess if the Redskins drafted Nolan Ryan they would want to make him into a junk ball pitcher. I am now wondering if we will ever recover. I live in Giant and Eagle land and they do nothing but laugh at the Redskins. Yup that's the crazy thing. He already had an injured knee at Baylor and came out of a spread offense and yet King Dan decides to trade the farm for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursilis Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Yup that's the crazy thing. He already had an injured knee at Baylor and came out of a spread offense and yet King Dan decides to trade the farm for him. I think you mean King Mike (Shanahan). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtyquinn Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 The ongoing consistent failure to address the deficiencies of the offensive line over the past 10 years is what hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.