Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks

[Bubble Screen]

Dude, I was responding to a post which in effect defended Cousins by calling out RG3 for playing poorly against the Giants.

So I pointed out they had it backwards, it was Cousins not RG3 who played poorly against the Giants that year.

I know. But you can't judge a QB off a game where he played in a driving rain all day. That's dumb. Plus I can't stand the fact that people are taking sides. They are BOTH awful.

[Jandre002]

I know. But you can't judge a QB off a game where he played in a driving rain all day. That's dumb. Plus I can't stand the fact that people are taking sides. They are BOTH awful.

 

You say RG3 is awful based off of what?

[RiverboatGambler]

I know. But you can't judge a QB off a game where he played in a driving rain all day. That's dumb. Plus I can't stand the fact that people are taking sides. They are BOTH awful.

Yes you can. Cousins has been exposed as a mental midget you want to say "WELL ROBERT SUCKS TOO SO HAHAHAHRDG:IISBVLJBv." Robert is not even on the field or near it right now for that matter. This is Kirk's s#$#tshow. Why can't you be as critical of him as you are of Griffin? Do you need to be right so badly that you have lost all objectivity. I have never seen a QB with Robert's stat-line treated so poorly by his own fanbase and the media while a QB as mentally fragile as Kirk be given such a pass by his supporters for flat out stinking when it matters. It's like no one is willing to take a step back and say, maybe Robert is a project who the jury is still out on and Kirk is, was and will be the backup for a reason.

[MattSchewe]

Maybe Cousins can take lessons from this guy. lol

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZZ9bawGj_M

[TradeTheBeal!]

A loss is a loss. The fact is, neither of them can win games.

Dude, it was a ****ing monsoon the day Cousins faced them.

 

Actually, RG3 can win games and has won quite a few.  And he did it all with the 31st ranked defense in the league and the worst special teams you've ever seen.  He put the team on his back in 2012 and had maybe the greatest rookie season for a QB in NFL history…PERIOD.  To assert otherwise or mitigate Cousins awfulness by saying that RG3 is no better or just as bad, is a flat out lie.  Bordering on trolling, really.

[SkinsFTW]

You say RG3 is awful based off of what?

 

No QB that puts up an average of like 13 points over his past 5-6 games is lighting it up bro. Cousins even counting this past game averages close to double that and we all know Cousins isn't going to the Pro Bowl any time soon, right?

[NoCalMike]

I am still baffled at the fact that people think you should give the same "leash" to a guy drafted to be a backup as you do the guy drafted to be the franchise's QB for the next decade.

 

There is a reason you go with the flow during "growing pains" for a franchise caliber QB, because the coaches believe in the end, it will pay off.  That isn't the case with backups.

[Jandre002]

No QB that puts up an average of like 13 points over his past 5-6 games is lighting it up bro. Cousins even counting this past game averages close to double that and we all know Cousins isn't going to the Pro Bowl any time soon, right?

 

So, including everything that happened last year (the injury, no off season, all the drama, and the teams we were facing, the state of special teams, the state of the defense) you're going to act as if RG3 is the same exact player this year?

 

No one is saying that if RG3 just continued to play like he did this year he would be pro bowl caliber (although he wasn't that bad last year). The hope was that, being healthier with an off season, more weapons, and learning to play in the pocket RG3 could develop into a pro bowl player THIS YEAR. He hasn't gotten that chance yet.

 

Even if hes not there yet, RG3 has enough to win with a good supporting cast. A middle of the road QB in the pocket with exceptional skills.

 

Awful means he losses games on his own. Last night was awful. RG3 has shows one decent game (where he didn't do enough to overcome bad team play, but did enough to win) and started the next game being good to great (was accurate on 3/3 throws with 22 yards rushing on two attempts).

[RiverboatGambler]

No QB that puts up an average of like 13 points over his past 5-6 games is lighting it up bro. Cousins even counting this past game averages close to double that and we all know Cousins isn't going to the Pro Bowl any time soon, right?

Over 5-6 games? Kirk is on track to throw for 75 interceptions through 30 games started. He is an INT machine.

[gortiz]

I am still baffled at the fact that people think you should give the same "leash" to a guy drafted to be a backup as you do the guy drafted to be the franchise's QB for the next decade.

 

There is a reason you go with the flow during "growing pains" for a franchise caliber QB, because the coaches believe in the end, it will pay off.  That isn't the case with backups.

 Great point! I mean the price paid for Robert alone dictates that. 

 

I keep going to how Walsh groomed Montana, literally used kid gloves with him.  

[PartyPosse]

Cousins with 100% confidence is still a mediocre quarterback that can't be trusted. RG3's biggest weakness is a lack of confidence in himself and his legs. We started to see glimpses of that confidence regained until the disaster.

 

My point is that RG3 is miles ahead of Cousins or pretty much 90% of the quarterbacks in this league IF he was healthy and IF he was confident. 

 

I would honestly be ok with playing Cousins for the year. Biting the bullet, draft some serious beef to the line to make sure we don't have to worry about line breakdowns so frequently. Seriously, as irresponsible as RG3 has been since being drafted, I honestly feel the O-line gets off way too easy. 

[Brokenstriker]

Actually, RG3 can win games and has won quite a few.  And he did it all with the 31st ranked defense in the league and the worst special teams you've ever seen.  He put the team on his back in 2012 and had maybe the greatest rookie season for a QB in NFL history…PERIOD.  To assert otherwise or mitigate Cousins awfulness by saying that RG3 is no better or just as bad, is a flat out lie.  Bordering on trolling, really.

no agruement ... 2012 was a good year, made the playoffs (thanks as much to Jackson as anyone)  but here's two views of reality ...

 

1)  Has not won quite a few.  He had a good and short run that led to the playoffs.

Career:  12 - 18

last 15 games:  3 - 12

last 6 games:  0 - 6

 

12 may qualify as quite a few to you ... but it isn't and 18 is WAY too many losses in a 30 game career ... and you may take note of the how he's trending ... and that before the ankle blowout

 

2)  That was then ... this is now.  Only now matters now.

Griffin was kick ass in 2012.  Currently, Sept 2014, RG3 is injured giving him a timeout from his 6 game losing streak.  Re other previously great Redskins QBs ... Theismann was godlike in 1982 and 1983 ... probably not so much in 2014

[Hubbs]

good catch ... I'm too discahbobulated from the mental agony of that game ... I'll fix it

 

3 - 12 = 0.200 Win percentage

 

2 - 5 - 0.285 Win percentage

 

No, you had the record right the first time, he was 3-10. Kirk started the last 3 games. But the winning percentage is .231 (rounded up from .23077) because it's 3 out of 13 total games. And in 2012 he went 9-6 (we'll count Atlanta and Baltimore because he played the majority of those) due to the fact that he didn't play in the Cleveland game, so that's a percentage of .600. 

 

Anyway, I don't think the percentage game is useful in the first place, because we all know this team is pretty bad. What matters to me is evaluating talent, and I think that all the talk about Kirk being more of a "fit" for Gruden's scheme was garbage in the first place. The whole storyline came from a combination of "anonymous sources" in the locker room, more "anonymous sources" who watched something like three joint practices between us and the Pats, and the fact that Gruden used to have Dalton as his quarterback. By that logic, practically every coordinator in the league would "prefer" a guy who's not a running threat over a guy who is because most of the quarterbacks in the league can't create with their legs, so that's what the coordinators are stuck with. The idea that Jay can't innovate a scheme that includes designed runs for his QB, because after all the last starter he worked with was Andy Dalton, is ridiculous. The idea that we or any other team would actually want the "next Andy Dalton," who's just good enough to not get replaced but is widely credited for being the biggest reason that Cincy never goes anywhere in the playoffs, is even more ridiculous. Kirk has actually demonstrated that the "next Andy Dalton" description fits him almost perfectly, as he's given us exactly what you'd expect if Dalton really did play for a team with no dominant defense to back up its QB—sometimes great, sometimes a disaster. RG3 was, is, and will continue to be the most talented quarterback on this roster, and seven weeks from now I don't think Gruden will have to answer many questions about that anymore.

[Brokenstriker]

 

No, you had the record right the first time, he was 3-10. Kirk started the last 3 games. But the winning percentage is .231 (rounded up from .23077) because it's 3 out of 13 total games. And in 2012 he went 9-6 (we'll count Atlanta and Baltimore because he played the majority of those) due to the fact that he didn't play in the Cleveland game, so that's a percentage of .600. 

 

Anyway, I don't think the percentage game is useful in the first place, because we all know this team is pretty bad. What matters to me is evaluating talent, and I think that all the talk about Kirk being more of a "fit" for Gruden's scheme was garbage in the first place. The whole storyline came from a combination of "anonymous sources" in the locker room, more "anonymous sources" who watched something like three joint practices between us and the Pats, and the fact that Gruden used to have Dalton as his quarterback. By that logic, practically every coordinator in the league would "prefer" a guy who's not a running threat over a guy who is because most of the quarterbacks in the league can't create with their legs, so that's what the coordinators are stuck with. The idea that Jay can't innovate a scheme that includes designed runs for his QB, because after all the last starter he worked with was Andy Dalton, is ridiculous. The idea that we or any other team would actually want the "next Andy Dalton," who's just good enough to not get replaced but is widely credited for being the biggest reason that Cincy never goes anywhere in the playoffs, is even more ridiculous. Kirk has actually demonstrated that the "next Andy Dalton" description fits him almost perfectly, as he's given us exactly what you'd expect if Dalton really did play for a team with no dominant defense to back up its QB—sometimes great, sometimes a disaster. RG3 was, is, and will continue to be the most talented quarterback on this roster, and seven weeks from now I don't think Gruden will have to answer many questions about that anymore.

3 - 12 ... loss to Seattle in Jan 2013 ... plus ...3 - 10 for the 2013 regular season ... plus ... loss to the Texans a few weeks ago ... 3 - 12 in his last 15 games.

 

I guess there may be people who want the next Andy Dalton (I really don't recall reading their posts though if they do) ... personally I have a very short list of wants ... the rest I expect the team/org to figure out ...

 

I want Redskins to win playoff games beyond that the only specifics I am passionate about re above average player quality are ...

- I want a top 5 offensive line

- I want a top 5 defensive line

[Skinsinparadise]

I know. But you can't judge a QB off a game where he played in a driving rain all day. That's dumb. Plus I can't stand the fact that people are taking sides. They are BOTH awful.

 

No one did.  As I explained to you in my previous post, RG3's numbers were pretty good against the Giants last year it was Cousins who had the off game, and I was responding purely because a post implied the reverse.

 

As for both of them being awful -- you are entitled to your opinion -- but its the outlier/odd take, since you used the word dumb I'll say it applies to judging a QB who had the best rookie year in the history of the NFL, had major surgery, was so so last year bouncing back, and statistically was pretty good so far this year as "awful"  and also judging Cousins  based on his small sample, with some highs, some lows as awful too.  

[TradeTheBeal!]

no agruement ... 2012 was a good year, made the playoffs (thanks as much to Jackson as anyone)  but here's two views of reality ...

 

1)  Has not won quite a few.  He had a good and short run that led to the playoffs.

Career:  12 - 18

last 15 games:  3 - 12

last 6 games:  0 - 6

 

12 may qualify as quite a few to you ... but it isn't and 18 is WAY too many losses in a 30 game career ... and you may take note of the how he's trending ... and that before the ankle blowout

 

2)  That was then ... this is now.  Only now matters now.

Griffin was kick ass in 2012.  Currently, Sept 2014, RG3 is injured giving him a timeout from his 6 game losing streak.  Re other previously great Redskins QBs ... Theismann was godlike in 1982 and 1983 ... probably not so much in 2014

 

Stay in school, kid.

[RandyHolt]

People say we have a great problem with 2 "franchise" QBs or whatever you want to refer to them as.  Fact is they both need work, their games to be refined, polished, etc. Just to find what we have.

 

If we let them both get all the work they may need, the other is not developing properly. Trying to develop both may take 5 years, or set us back 10 if they both fail. 

 

Trying to groom 2 "franchise" QBs is simply not an easy to accomplish task, and I think it is why most GM's do not bother trying.

 

We are still trying to sort out special teams, for cripes sakes.

 

And our OL, oddly even though we landed our bookend LT.

 

And our defense, as usual. 

 

Gruden has a full plate.

 

I am interested in a full breakdown and proper discussion of those 4 pickles to tide us over to the next Prime Time Debacle.

[NoCalMike]

I don't think anyone was ever arguing that RG3 didn't "need work" but half of this fan base had already written him off, given up on him.  All the while the same time they convinced themselves (based on what, I don't know) that somehow RG3's struggles translated into Kirk Cousins being a franchise QB.

 

That idiot Chad Dukes on the radio is one of the main culprits, he was so giddy over Robert in 2012, and turned on him almost over night.

 

Now listening to Joey T. make excuses for Kirk on 980. Awesome.

[Rskins06]

These arguments for KC against RGIII continue to be utterly ridiculous.  Everyone pulls up stats so they can prove each other wrong.  RGIII fans say KC is a turnover machine, they would be right, but that doesn't mean he won't improve.  RGIII fans say all KC does is throw ints and is a back up at best.  What I find most interesting is comparisons to other NFL QBs.  Most would say Peyton is arguably the best QB ever, however, he threw 28 Ints his first year and had a 71.2 Rating, Drew Breese had 18 Ints his first year and a 76.9 Rating, Eli Manning had 17 Ints and a 75.9 Rating, hell, Brett Favre had 24 ints and a 72.2 rating.  Fairly certain they are all pretty damn good now.   

Guess what, both RGIII (82.2 last year) AND KC (87.4 current) have better ratings than all the above.

 

I don't even care about 2012, why?  Because it means absolutley nothing today (new coaches, different players, different system, etc).  I don't care about 2013 because it has nothing to do with today.  All that should matter is who is better today.  Given 4 games, no one can make any statement clarifying.  Yes, RGIII completed 78% of his passes, WHO CARES, we only scored 6 points (I don't want to hear the turnover exuse because we were only down 8 in the 4th and he couldn't get it done either).  KC played well against JAGS, Eagles, and sucked against the Giants, who cares, we still lost 2 out of last 3.  Both will get better, who gets better quicker, we don't know yet.

[ILikeBilly]

I see your BS and raise you a BS ... culturally the QB is the team leader ... that's reality ... even Griffin knows it and embraces it ... "my team" "we go as I go" ...

 

If you want to say the QB is 'just another role player" on an NFL team ... that's a can of worms that is gonna be a mess

QB is the leader - agreed.  Sometimes the QB doesn't make the plays and a loss can be laid in his lap.  Sometimes a QB plays so bad, that there is no doubt the loss is on him.  Sometimes a QB plays good enough for the team to win if others just carry their weight, but the team still loses - special teams problems, defense not showing up, RBs, TEs or WRs fumbling or dropping balls.  In this type of game, it is (in my opinion) not fair to hold the loss against the QB. 

 

So, to follow up from earlier post, I just don't think you can look at Robert's W/L record and say he a a loser as a QB and Kirk is a better QB.  That is what was being said.  I was disagreeing and saying that often we would loss, but Robert was clearly not to blame. 

 

If you look at Kirk's losses, he often is clearly playing badly (giants this year and last) and is a big reason for the loss.  In the eagles game Kirk had a very good game.  The loss cannot be pinned on him, however as a QB, he had the ball at the end and didn't get it done.  This type of loss goes toward what you are saying:  the QB is a team leader and must take some of the blame.  Robert has plenty of these losses too - 2nd eagles game last year for example.

[Prototype]

no agruement ... 2012 was a good year, made the playoffs (thanks as much to Jackson as anyone)  but here's two views of reality ...

 

1)  Has not won quite a few.  He had a good and short run that led to the playoffs.

Career:  12 - 18

last 15 games:  3 - 12

last 6 games:  0 - 6

 

12 may qualify as quite a few to you ... but it isn't and 18 is WAY too many losses in a 30 game career ... and you may take note of the how he's trending ... and that before the ankle blowout

 

2)  That was then ... this is now.  Only now matters now.

Griffin was kick ass in 2012.  Currently, Sept 2014, RG3 is injured giving him a timeout from his 6 game losing streak.  Re other previously great Redskins QBs ... Theismann was godlike in 1982 and 1983 ... probably not so much in 2014

 

 

So if 18 losses in 30 games is bad... what do you call 5 losses in 6 games for Mr. Cousins?

 

Honestly, always looking forward to your responses trying to trash Griff

[Brokenstriker]

Stay in school, kid.

if you're happy with a 12 - 18 record for your starting QB who hasn't won a game in his last 6 tries ... than you are the luckiest Redskins fan on earth ... cause that's what you've got.  And of course those fantastic memories of blowing the Seattle playoff game.  Congratualations.  Enjoy the season.

 

Sadly I remember superbowl victories ... I'd like to collect some fresh memories along those lines.

[Rskins06]

So if 18 losses in 30 games is bad... what do you call 5 losses in 6 games for Mr. Cousins?

 

Honestly, always looking forward to your responses trying to trash Griff

Really, Ok, I will play your game, I will even give you RGIII's first 8 games record.....2-6 (that is 6 losses in 8 games).  If you want to get more technical, Grffin lost 4 out of  his first 6 starts.  At one point, loste 4 out of 5 games.  If you want to use a fair sampling, then use a fair sampling.

 

Both QBs need to get much better.

[Brokenstriker]

So if 18 losses in 30 games is bad... what do you call 5 losses in 6 games for Mr. Cousins?

 

Honestly, always looking forward to your responses trying to trash Griff

I beleive you'll find a post from me in this thread where I state that Cousins' records sucks.  So ... to answer your question I call 5 loses in 6 games terrible.  I also call a Griffin's recent performance crappy.  But please ... make a case for 0 - 6 in his last 6 games ... or 3 - 12 in his last 15.  Cheer me up Prototype.  I want Griffin to be a great QB.  I like Griffin.  I don't believe he is a good ... maybe better to say effective QB now ... I confess I was liking his precious few moments in the Jags game but ... too little too injured.  I beleive he could be ... I don't know how long that would take ... and frankly I'm sick of waiting for the Skins to be good.  Could and will are sadly different things.

 

Actually ... do this for me ... explain how stating a QB's win loss record is trashing him?  That's supposed to be something good QB's brag about. 

 

We could discuss his completions or individual stats ... that would be great for talking about potential to win games ... unrealized potential ... that matters in punt pass and kick competitions ... but NFL games are played to determine the winner and the loser.

[Going Commando]

As much as people loved it, the pass to Garcon along the sidelines of the Eagles game was a bad decision.  It shouldn't have been thrown.

It was a bad decision and a bad throw. He threw it high to a bracketed receiver in tight coverage. It was an amazing catch. Garcon bailed him out by making a great play.

But people were mentioning that throw as evidence that Cousins was special "and makes plays that RGIII can't." That's what makes me mad.

Along with all the talk about how Cousins is "a better pocket passer because he's been doing it all his life" and that "RGIII doesn't know how to play in the pocket." "Cousins is better at playing the QB position." "Cousins is better at running the offense." "Cousins is a faster decision maker and more decisive passer."

All that stuff was bull****. It was wrong when it was uttered and if anything good came from last night, then it'll be the end of that kind of talk. Probably not though. RGIII always has been a better QB than Cousins, including better at all aspects of passing and decision making, not just running. His ability level dwarfs Kirk's. This **** should be obvious. It's almost unbelievable how quickly fans and the media turned on RGIII and boosted up Kirk despite the history of each over the past four or five seasons or so.