ESPN: Kirk Cousins Open to Being Traded

[Zazzaro703]

The point is that Griffin gives us a MUCH better chance to win the SB than Cousins does.  And if Griffin gets hurt, and Cousins comes in, whatever SB chances we had pretty much go down the drain.  Our team is not constructed like teams such as the 49ers and Seahawks, who mostly rely on their elite defenses to get them to a SB.  This team's chances to get there largely rest on the shoulders of the offense, and Griffin is the biggest part of that. 

 

It comes down to this.  Do you want to increase your chances of winning a Superbowl?  Or do you want to increase your chances of remaining relevant if Griffin goes down?

 

If you're more in the camp of increasing our chances to win a SB, then you should have no problem trading Cousins away to draft a player that could have an equal or greater impact on either offense or defense that Jordan Reed had last year.  If you're more in the camp of staying relevant and staying at around .500 if Griffin goes down, then keeping Cousins is more attractive to you.

 

I don't care about being relevant.  I care about winning Superbowls.

This is the bullseye statement. We aren't playing to be relevant and have a middle of the pack record. We play to win the superbowl and getting a player that can help in 2014 is way more important that a backup quarterback. If someone we like is on the board and we can trade cousins in the 3rd round, you pull the trigger. Griffin gives us a shot to win it all. In 2012, we were arguably the hottest most dangerous team going in the playoffs and punishing the seahawks until the knee was tweaked going out of bounce. If Griffin returns to form, we can make a deep run and then who knows. Cousins, not so much so what's the point in holding onto him when he will just walk after next year?

holy crap. That's one crazy reach. Are you saying KC is on the level of them or better than Griff? I don't get it.

He has been touting this first 4 games stuff for weeks.

[mistertim]

Pretty sad to me that you can't see any value in KC when he's done things that Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and so many Hall of Fame QB's never did in just 4 starts in the league. I'm really unsure what more you want from a guy who's started 4 games

 

300 yard passing - Check (2ce in 4 starts)

3 TD passes in a game - Check

Limits getting hit and sacked - Check

Produces with his playmakers - Check (Garcon's best game in DC have come with KC not Griff)

Season high QB passing yards - Check

Late game comeback victory - Check

High scoring offense - Check (Has lead the team to offensive scores of 23, 26, and 38 points)

Keeps his team in the game - Check (2 of his losses have come by 1 point each)

 

 

I can grasp people saying don't make a big deal about limited stats like these, but for some people to outright ignore them confuses me. What exactly would you have wanted to see in 4 starts to not see him as mediocre? I know that's a retorical question and the answer is likely he would have had to win those games he started this year but go down that rabbit hole and see what your really asking

 

If KC had won the last three games of the year...

 

More people demanding he be the starter over Griffin

Worse draft position

 

And since those games were against bad teams - Falcons, Cowboys, Giants - I bet people who don't like KC would have just used that as an excuse to discredit what he did. The best thing that KC could have done he did - He looked like a starting NFL QB and at the same time his team lost meaningless games.

Seriously? You're really going back to those cherry picked stats? And you're really back to talking about how he has done things that elite QBs like Manning and Brady didn't? This has to be a joke. Has to be.

 

My guess is that if he actually had a decent completion percentage, decent TD/INT ratio, decent passer rating, etc you would be posting those instead of stuff that makes him look good while ignoring the bad. To me he looked pretty good at times but not very accurate and made some terrible decisions; he had some flashes but was very inconsistent. Personally I didn't really see much that screamed to me "elite QB". Could he become one? Sure. So could any other 3rd or 4th round QB. Is it likely? Not especially, if you look at the history, stats, and watch him play.

 

3rd and 4th round QBs drafted in the last 10 years:

 

Luke McCown

Matt Schaub

Charlie Frye

Andrew Walter

David Greene

Kyle Orton

Stefan Lefors

Charlie Whitehurst

Brodie Croyle

Brad Smith

Trent Edwards

Isaiah Stanback

Kevin O'Connell

Stephen McGee

Colt McCoy

Mike Kafka

Ryan Mallett

Russell Wilson

Nick Foles

Kirk Cousins

Mike Glennon

Matt Barkley

Ryan Nassib

Tyler Wilson

Landry Jones

 

Not exactly elite company. That's the problem with pulling a QB like Wilson or Foles and saying "see? it can happen". It ignores the fact that for every Wilson or Foles or whoever there are probably 20 guys drafted around the same spot who did nothing. If you could get a 3rd round pick for Brodie Croyle would you take it? I certainly would. Historically speaking, Cousins is more likely to be Croyle than he is Wilson.

 

Also, who exactly has been saying that Cousins will never be a good QB? Pretty sure most of the people you've argued with a bit about this have stated that they don't think he is currently that good. Could he be a great NFL QB in the future? sure, maybe. I don't necessarily think it is likely given what I've seen and the historical precedent, but I won't discount the possibility.

[skins island connection]

You do know that more than one TE can be in the game at once, right?  Same with RB.  QB is the only position where trading players for a draft pick makes sense unless an RB, TE, or another position just doesn't fit into your system.

 

 Yes, i'm familiar with double TE sets, same as RBs, I was only using an example of the theory of banking on 1 player at any position, especially one who has had multiple injuries over their brief career.

 

Well, in 2012 we were in contention, Griff (a rookie) went down, and Cousins (another rookie) helped out. Would you say that Cousins was unfamiliar with the team when he played the Browns game? By your logic Grossman should have started behind RG3.

 

Obviously experience is good, but when it comes to Kirk, I'm not so certain he is vastly better than some rookie we sign. If Griffin goes down, our chances fall off a cliff, regardless of who steps in (a fact true for nearly every team). If we were able to get a third round pick for him -- a situation I highly doubt arises -- then I'd say we go for it.

 

 Mike knew what he had in Grossman; junk, damaged goods [ sorry GHH ], and Cousins had done fairly well in preseason; I would have done the same thing.

 The thing that Cousins has, and thats respect from his teammates, from WR to OG; now i'm not saying they prefer him over Griffin, thats crazy talk, but if needed, the receivers will trust him and know he will do his best. Of all the circus shows in 2013, Kirk stayed out of the picture, kept his mouth shut, and did his job; too bad others couldn't follow suit.

 

Now, to say our chances of a SB fall off a cliff are a bit too harsh; i'm not saying he could do it, but i'm not saying he couldn't either. Some have used the last few games of the season as his measuring stick, when the fire, the hope, the chance that a playoff spot could be there, was not, and I watched some pretty sad sells on route running, as many others did as well. Not to mention playing a game in absolute ****ty weather, and they say ' oh, well he didn't do anything special"; really? Playing in a monsoon with high gusty winds, and they quickly point to Kirk as being not any good. Thats a pretty chicken**** way to evaluate someone, but then again, I see how fixated some are on Griffin that nothing else matters, no one else matters, only the great Griffin.

 

Thats the mentality that will doom the team. Griffin is the starter, but if he goes down, or out, I have enough confidence in Cousins stepping in and not seeing much of a drop off, maybe even a different style of QB play. He's not Grossmanm, stop treating the guy like he is.

[planter]

Do NOT trade Cousins unless he can bring us Martin, one of, if not the best RT available. If we're concerned about missing Moses and CK then trading up (without Cousins) makes sense.

[Koolblue13]

This is the bullseye statement. We aren't playing to be relevant and have a middle of the pack record. We play to win the superbowl and getting a player that can help in 2014 is way more important that a backup quarterback. If someone we like is on the board and we can trade cousins in the 3rd round, you pull the trigger. Griffin gives us a shot to win it all. In 2012, we were arguably the hottest most dangerous team going in the playoffs and punishing the seahawks until the knee was tweaked going out of bounce. If Griffin returns to form, we can make a deep run and then who knows. Cousins, not so much so what's the point in holding onto him when he will just walk after next year?

He has been touting this first 4 games stuff for weeks.

I never click on this thread. I see the title and think 'no ****',but I was bored. In no way did expect to read that.

I think KC1 will be a starter one day, but comparing him to Brady and Manning? That's a riot.

[TexasSkinsFan]

holy crap. That's one crazy reach. Are you saying KC is on the level of them or better than Griff? I don't get it.

 

Not really. My message hasn't really ever changed and I'm not "reaching" for anything.

 

Too many people think that KC is garbage, mediocre, not worth much, in general terms. I have written a lot about this subject on this thread in defense of my own position which is simply this

 

In the limited 4 starts it is far too early to tell if KC will be a good NFL QB or a bad one

 

When I see all of the good things he's done I'm not blind to the fact that there is some bad...turnovers is a huge one, not dealing adequately with a fierce pass rush is another. Those are the things that every rookie QB in this league has to learn to deal with and cope with. KC having those issues is not rare, the guy has started 4 professional football games. The "checks" I wrote

 

 

300 yard passing - Check (2ce in 4 starts)

3 TD passes in a game - Check

Limits getting hit and sacked - Check

Produces with his playmakers - Check (Garcon's best game in DC have come with KC not Griff)

Season high QB passing yards - Check

Late game comeback victory - Check

High scoring offense - Check (Has lead the team to offensive scores of 23, 26, and 38 points)

Keeps his team in the game - Check (2 of his losses have come by 1 point each)

 

 

Are not stretches, they are the truth. How anyone can say with positivity today that KC is bad/awful/tradehimforacookie or whatever else seems to be missing the big picture here and ignoring the good. You shouldn't ever just look at the positive or just the negative and should capture the whole thing.

 

So with me saying...I don't know if KC is going to be a good or bad starting QB, and you also realize that this team has Griffin as QB...a guy with an injury history, who last we saw of him looked awful in a 35 point blowout at home, who we are all extremely hopeful of returns to greatness....how can you give up on this insurance policy today not knowing which Griffin will play in '14? Will it be the '12 Griffin or will it be the '13 Griffin? Nobody knows yet. So why would you dump KC now?

 

I will be the first to tell you how....the team demands a ransom for KC and if they don't get that then they don't move him. Period. To me the price is a 2nd round pick. If they get that 2nd round pick then all of Redskins nation should all wish him the best, but a 3rd? On this team with the questions about Griffin, with the uncertainty there? Not a chance. It would potentially destroy the next two or more years if they did that and a 3rd round pick is not worth that to me.

[TexasSkinsFan]

I never click on this thread. I see the title and think 'no ****',but I was bored. In no way did expect to read that.

I think KC1 will be a starter one day, but comparing him to Brady and Manning? That's a riot.

 

You obv haven't read much of what you want to laugh about that I wrote here. Here is what I dare you to do

 

Please compare the first four starts that Brady, Both Mannings, Russell Wilson, Robert Griffin and Andrew Luck had in this league starting to the four starts that Cousins has had. Check everything. Then get back to me.

 

If your honest about this what your going to find is that the numbers that KC has put up in his first 4 starts are better then the numbers that those guys started with. What that means is anyone's guess. It could be that KC just started hot, could be that those guys took longer to produce in this league, whatever it does mean this is the resume of the current Redskins backup QB.

 

Hopefully then you will understand why I do not know what kind of NFL starting QB KC will be in this league and why I do not want to give him away for just any offer.

[Roger.Staubach]

IF RG3 goes down the season is over it does not matter who you have as the back up QB.  Cousins is not taking you to the playoffs if he plays the Majority of the games. Is he a 2 game gap back up? Of course.

You say this, based on what???  How many first team reps during the season(s) that he has been on the team has he had?  Given RG's mobility, one would think that the offense would be tailored to him.  Having a relatively-immobile QB come in to take over an offense geared around a completely different skill set must be tough.

 

to me, the jury is still out on Cousins (thus the reason I would give Dallas's mid-3rd round pick for him). 

[mistertim]

You obv haven't read much of what you want to laugh about that I wrote here. Here is what I dare you to do

 

Please compare the first four starts that Brady, Both Mannings, Russell Wilson, Robert Griffin and Andrew Luck had in this league starting to the four starts that Cousins has had. Check everything. Then get back to me.

 

If your honest about this what your going to find is that the numbers that KC has put up in his first 4 starts are better then the numbers that those guys started with. What that means is anyone's guess. It could be that KC just started hot, could be that those guys took longer to produce in this league, whatever it does mean this is the resume of the current Redskins backup QB.

 

Hopefully then you will understand why I do not know what kind of NFL starting QB KC will be in this league and why I do not want to give him away for just any offer.

I'll take a guess. Nothing.

 

Seriously though. You keep trotting this out but then saying "hey, I don't know what it means, just saying...". It's like a conspiracy theorist saying "hey, I'm just asking questions!"

 

Spit it out. What do YOU think it means? Stop dancing around it. You're the one who keeps bringing it up so you must have some opinion on it. Please share with the group.

[RG3Hunna]

 OK, lets play the scenario out.

 

 Cousins gets traded, and we use that pick and snag a TE or RB.

 

 The kid does well; very well.

 

 Then its the same thing all over again; " hey, lets trade him for a draft pick" " we already have Morris/Reed ". We need draft picks, we need to trade him asap.

 

 Going by that logic, the FO and coaches should start every single 3rd-5th draft pick, practice squad guys, so they can protect the actual starters from being injured.  Why bother playing the game at all?

 Every player who walks on the field risks being injured, short term or long term; its the nature of the game, the physical pounding they take on a daily basis eventually wears a player down. Even, especially at the QB position; Griffin has a target on his back; you know it and I know it. Every defensive player wants to light him up. 2013 was butt ugly, and against the 9ers, the nut shot Griffin took should give you an idea of how he will be treated on field.

 

If the Redskins want to bother with trying to get to the playoffs, much less a Superbowl, they need to have back-ups or players to spot others for a down or 2 to give them a rest; the QB position is different in that aspect, but the risk of injury is glaring, and if they're in contention for the division, and Griffin goes down, would you want some rookie QB who isn't familiar with the players or would you want someone who the team knows and has some experience in stepping in?

 

I get the draft pick thing, but at this juncture its just too early to do it; Cousins is much more valuable now on the team as insurance than trading away for an unknown draft pick who may or may not even make the team.

First off why would the team trade Kirk Cousins and use the draft pick on a RB or TE? when we have Alfred Morris and Jordan reed as starters?

 

We would more than likely draft a RG or RT which we have two bums starting for us at the position. So this notion that we're gonna be screaming for Alfred Morris and Jordan Reed to be traded is ludicrous.

 

Why were the 49ers even able to give RGIII a nut shot? because Will Montgomery, Chris Chester and Polumbus were destroyed. Instead of fixing the issue that cause RGIII to get a nut shot which is the offensive line, you want to keep the offensive line the same and keep Kirk Cousins the back up on the team? lol

 

Why not fix the problem? games are won and lost with the offensive line and until we fix the right side of our offensive line we'll continue letting RGIII get crushed. 

[JesseNeckred]

one thing I think many people fail to realize is that it's not going to be 2012 or 2013 Griffin, it's going to be 2014 Griffin.

[NickyJ]

Perhaps, but the concern is whether 2014 Griffin is going to be more similar to 2012 or 2013 Griffin.

[skins island connection]

First off why would the team trade Kirk Cousins and use the draft pick on a RB or TE? when we have Alfred Morris and Jordan reed as starters?

 

I was simply using an example of a player, I wasn't saying they WOULD draft a RB or TE. You're either not following what i'm saying or just don't want to admit I am right. No offense.

You're banking on the notion they will draft a RT/RG, but its not set in stone; these guys pull off some crazy picks at times.

 

We would more than likely draft a RG or RT which we have two bums starting for us at the position. So this notion that we're gonna be screaming for Alfred Morris and Jordan Reed to be traded is ludicrous. 

 

Funny, I rarely heard/saw anyone use the word 'ludicrous' until Mike Tyson, now its everywhere.

 

Why were the 49ers even able to give RGIII a nut shot? because Will Montgomery, Chris Chester and Polumbus were destroyed. Instead of fixing the issue that cause RGIII to get a nut shot which is the offensive line, you want to keep the offensive line the same and keep Kirk Cousins the back up on the team? lol

 

Well, Griffin got the nut shot because he was locked on a receiver downfield and held the ball too long;  his pocket presence wasn't good last year. I dare you to tell me differently. Everyone said it, from coaches to players to commentators.

 

Why not fix the problem? games are won and lost with the offensive line and until we fix the right side of our offensive line we'll continue letting RGIII get crushed. 

 

Yes, you are absolutely right. There is a problem and the line could use improvement; no arguement there. Now, I personally do not believe it is absolute garbage, but it certainly could use improvement. Griffin is a mobile QB, which can be of help with a problem o-line, but quicker throws, 3 step drop and throws can also neutralize any defensive line, but with that comes receivers/backs being on the same page, accuracy, yada yada yada.

Its just my personal opinion of not having a decent back-up in the event Griffin goes down. Why bother having the position in the first place? Week 11, we're atop our division at 8-3, 3 game lead in our division, Griffin goes down, and poof! the season is over because there's no one who can step in for Griffin and maintain control of the division, all because the 1 person who could do it was traded. Does that make sense to you? You know good and well fans would be going ape**** screaming for a decent back-up QB, but we traded Cousins to get o-line help, even though protection is a priority, Griffin's worst injuries were outside the pocket, hec, they were past the LOS for that matter; not much an o-lineman can do there.

[redskinss]

did anyone else hear herm Edwards on sportscenter this morning. he said the browns should consider using the 4th overall selection on a quarterback or look into trading it to the redskins to try to acquire cousins.

 

Does anybody else think its ridiculous to even consider this considering we don't have a first round pick or is this even a possibility.

is his value possibly higher than we thought it was or is Edwards smoking the funny stuff with that comment?

 

ok I just re-watched it and he was reffering to there second pick in the first round 26th overall I think.

but still is that a possibility?  Is his value high enough to somehow get that pick?

[tbt]

 

ok I just re-watched it and he was reffering to there second pick in the first round 26th overall I think.

but still is that a possibility?  Is his value high enough to somehow get that pick?

All it takes is one team to do it. Look at Indy giving up a first for Trent Richardson...

 

Surely even the staunchest Cousins fans would have to jump on that trade.

[Mocountyskins]

You say this, based on what???  How many first team reps during the season(s) that he has been on the team has he had?  Given RG's mobility, one would think that the offense would be tailored to him.  Having a relatively-immobile QB come in to take over an offense geared around a completely different skill set must be tough.

 

to me, the jury is still out on Cousins (thus the reason I would give Dallas's mid-3rd round pick for him). 

Well he got almost all of the first team reps last summer and then he got a lot of first team reps at the end of the season and he played just as poorly as Griffin did imo. 

[TSO]

All it takes is one team to do it. Look at Indy giving up a first for Trent Richardson...

 

Surely even the staunchest Cousins fans would have to jump on that trade.

 

I don't think anyone here would be opposed to getting a 1st or 2nd for Cousins. None of us who argue the value of Cousins and actually consider him worth more than a hamburger would have ANY issue with getting a high pick like that. 

 

The argument has been about a 3rd or lower. 

[skins island connection]

Well he got almost all of the first team reps last summer and then he got a lot of first team reps at the end of the season and he played just as poorly as Griffin did imo. 

 

 Alot of reps? I wouldn't say alot, comparatively speaking, but reps with a team thats demoralized, nothing to play for except pride, pretty much mailing it in, with a defense and special teams squad who couldn't stop you or me from scoring, but he put up enough points to beat Atlanta, but thanks to the defense, that was blown, then played a game in a rainy windy sloppy weather field, and you are actually using that as an excuse? 

Had it been Griffin in those conditions, you'd be here defending him to the end. 

 

Some have an image of Griffin in the front with the rest of the team in the background, far back, blurred somewhat. God help you all if Griffin bombs this season, which BTW I do hope he does not, but the excuses are already in; new coach, new philosophy, grass too green, and on and on...

[Mocountyskins]

 Alot of reps? I wouldn't say alot, comparatively speaking, but reps with a team thats demoralized, nothing to play for except pride, pretty much mailing it in, with a defense and special teams squad who couldn't stop you or me from scoring, but he put up enough points to beat Atlanta, but thanks to the defense, that was blown, then played a game in a rainy windy sloppy weather field, and you are actually using that as an excuse? 

Had it been Griffin in those conditions, you'd be here defending him to the end. 

 

Some have an image of Griffin in the front with the rest of the team in the background, far back, blurred somewhat. God help you all if Griffin bombs this season, which BTW I do hope he does not, but the excuses are already in; new coach, new philosophy, grass too green, and on and on...

 

Idk man if Griffin doesn't play well this season I'd say its over and start considering another road. Imo there are no excuses for griff this time. Way too many weps on O and a full off season, 100% healthy, no knee brace etc etc

 

I think he will do well. No excuses this time.

[Zazzaro703]

You obv haven't read much of what you want to laugh about that I wrote here. Here is what I dare you to do

Please compare the first four starts that Brady, Both Mannings, Russell Wilson, Robert Griffin and Andrew Luck had in this league starting to the four starts that Cousins has had. Check everything. Then get back to me.

If your honest about this what your going to find is that the numbers that KC has put up in his first 4 starts are better then the numbers that those guys started with. What that means is anyone's guess. It could be that KC just started hot, could be that those guys took longer to produce in this league, whatever it does mean this is the resume of the current Redskins backup QB.

Hopefully then you will understand why I do not know what kind of NFL starting QB KC will be in this league and why I do not want to give him away for just any offer.

It was shown to you his numbers weren't better than Griffins a few pages back. I think Cousins averaged like 3 yards more a game but Griffin also had rushing yards. The eye test alone (remembering watching Griffin and Cousin's first 4 starts) showed Griffin was better the first 4 games.

 

NFL Facts ‏@NFLfax now

#NFL #facts Last season @RGIII became the 1st #Redskins QB in the Super Bowl era to post 3 consecutive 300 yard passing games

And how did that work out for us last year since 300 yard games seem to be so important??? 300 yard games dont mean that much.

[skins island connection]

Idk man if Griffin doesn't play well this season I'd say its over and start considering another road. Imo there are no excuses for griff this time. Way too many weps on O and a full off season, 100% healthy, no knee brace etc etc

 

I think he will do well. No excuses this time.

 

 Well, I wouldn't say that it would be over if he didn't play well; I know it will be a new system, sort of, but the haters will come out. Contrary to the belief of some, i'm not a Griffin hater, I just don't put him on a pedestal as some do; the guy is human.

 Cousins and Griffin both are a benefit to the team, both bring something different, and i'd bet that both, given time and practice, take this team pretty far, as long as the other aspects of the team i.e.; defense ST, improves.

 

Lets face it, Cousins hasn't had the real time playing experience that Griffin had, understandibly so; Griffin is the starter, but Cousins is a much better insurance policy, given Griffin's style of play; high risk-high reward. We really can't look at the last few games of last year and judge Cousins' abilitites, circumstances were much different.

 

When his contract is up, if he wants to be a starter, then we wish him well; he's a class kid especially through all of this drama the last year or so; if he wants to re-sign, great. I've said it before; both Griffin and Cousins, used correctly, could work well together, in a system designed for both of them. Yea it sounds like a hair brain idea, but i've thought of worse, trust me. A totally different and new aspect of the QB position.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Chris Russell ‏@Russellmania980  Apr 30

 

Will be writing about this - but heard that Bruce has always been very fond of Colt McCoy & #Redskins lose compensation leverage next year.

 

 

Kevin‏@HTTR24_7

 

@Russellmania980 #Redskins Jon & Jay have been big fans of Colt for awhile..

[NickyJ]

 

Chris Russell ‏@Russellmania980  Apr 30

 

Will be writing about this - but heard that Bruce has always been very fond of Colt McCoy & #Redskins lose compensation leverage next year.

 

 

Kevin‏@HTTR24_7

 

@Russellmania980 #Redskins Jon & Jay have been big fans of Colt for awhile..

 

When I first looked at this post, the bold print grabbed my eyes first. "Jon & Jay have been big fans of Colt for awhile.."

 

Colt.

COLT.

COLT

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Cute, I do have 5 kids of my own so I know I can come off as a parent sometimes.

Just playing man. I do appreciate your perspective and the detail you bring to all your discussions.

[Bonez3]

Shoooot. I think Sammy Watkins #1 prospect in this draft. If he is there and Cle snags him. I don't think it is unpossible that KC has potential 2nd round grade.

They got a late 1st they can go DL or S with. I'm hoping like heck they get Watkins. I could see at very least a day 2 trade. Maybe they give up their 3rd so they can focus on need at 2