ESPN: Kirk Cousins Open to Being Traded

[Califan007 The Constipated]

That quote about Cousins isn't saying he's better than all the qbs in the draft. It's implying that by Friday night he will be better than whats left.

 

Ah, true, you're right...

[Skinsinparadise]

Paulsen was saying that none of the QBs in the draft were as good as Cousins? 

 

Just read Pauline's tweet.  Better than any QB, wow.  Granted Paulsen didn't go that far.   Grant had a couple of segments on this before Pauline jumped on the show.  The impression I got as to Grant's point of view is Cousins is likely better than the guys outside of the first round guys, Carr. Manziel, Bortles, etc. so if a team doesn't land one of those type guys, Cousins is looking attractive.   His point was that at the trade market value the Redskins are looking for, you will likely have a hard time to find a comparable player in the draft.  

 

Grant didn't really get into names but suggested as teams have had more time to look at the Qbs they've discovered more reg flags, and the current corp doesn't look as it good as it did 4 weeks ago, thus Cousins value has increased.  

That quote about Cousins isn't saying he's better than all the qbs in the draft. It's implying that by Friday night he will be better than whats left.

 

That makes more sense.  And if you go back to Grant's segment its somewhat consistent with his perspective.  

[darrelgreenie]

Cousins and Mccoy are basically the same guy. They can get you through a 3-4 week stretch but you're in trouble after that. If RG3 goes down long term the season is a wrap whether Cousins is there or not.

And this is true for most teams.

[Soup's Uncle]

I'm going to be at the draft.  If we somehow fleece some team for a 2nd or 3rd for Kirk, you will hear me screaming for joy at Radio City.  Not saying that I think it will happen though.

[darrelgreenie]

Colt McCoy - 21 starts

Kirk Cousins - 4 starts

 

If Cousins is still sucking eggs 17 starts from now like McCoy was doing, the point will be more valid.

Which point are you refering to?

Having more starts under his belt is just another reason he makes the better back-up.

Those fans that clamour for Cousins don't view Cousin's production as 'sucking eggs' though. They have a very inflated opinion of Kirk that isn't supported by his production nor skillset.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Which point are you refering to?

Having more starts under his belt is just another reason he makes the better back-up.

Those fans that clamour for Cousins don't view Cousin's production as 'sucking eggs' though. They have a very inflated opinion of Kirk that isn't supported by his production nor skillset.

 

The point that Cousins is actually no better than McCoy, although many think otherwise.

 

Why else post their "career" stats? The stats between a QB's first 4 starts and a QB's first 21 starts holds little value. Just for laughs, go and compare Eli Manning's stats in his first 4 starts to McCoy's stats as well.

 

Personally, I wish people would stop posting dry stats between Cousins and McCoy as if doing so is shedding any type of illuminating knowledge. Would much prefer a discussion about their mechanics, arm strength, pocket presence, ability to read defenses, athleticism, etc, etc.

 

And for the first 4 starts of his career, Cousins' stats don't suck eggs. But if they haven't improved after 20+ starts--and in fact, get worse (which is what McCoy's stats did)--then a stats comparison between the two QBs would have more validity.

 

And if more starts was what determined the better QB, Brady Quinn and JeMarcus Russell blows Cousins out of the water. Go get 'em, Bruce!

[darrelgreenie]

 

The point that Cousins is actually no better than McCoy, although many think otherwise.

 

Why else post their "career" stats? The stats between a QB's first 4 starts and a QB's first 21 starts holds little value. Just for laughs, go and compare Eli Manning's stats in his first 4 starts to McCoy's stats as well.

 

Personally, I wish people would stop posting dry stats between Cousins and McCoy as if doing so is shedding any type of illuminating knowledge. Would much prefer a discussion about their mechanics, arm strength, pocket presence, ability to read defenses, athleticism, etc, etc.

 

And for the first 4 starts of his career, Cousins' stats don't suck eggs. But if they haven't improved after 20+ starts--and in fact, get worse (which is what McCoy's stats did)--then a stats comparison between the two QBs would have more validity.

Lol, its funny to watch the reaction to simply posting their stats.

 

So because people like Cousin's we shouldn't look at his stats? lol

Those stats belong to Cousin's you can try to rationalize them away or do whatever mental gymnastics you need to make you feel better but the stats are the stats.

 

And you can't say that Cousin's stats don't suck eggs and maintain that Colt's stats suck eggs without being a hypocrite.

 

Cousin's and McCoy aren't prospects anymore they're in the league. They're not evaluated based on skillset anymore they're evaluated based on production. 

And trust me I can talk all day about their physical attributes all day long.

And speaking of physical skillset there are late round prospects with better physical skillset then Kirk.

[darrelgreenie]

And if more starts was what determined the better QB, Brady Quinn and JeMarcus Russell blows Cousins out of the water. Go get 'em, Bruce!

 C'mon you're better then this Califan.

Did I write starts determined the better QB? Or did I write better back-up?

 

We are comparing Cousin and Colt McCoy as back-ups.

When it comes to back-ups isn't experience is better then lack thereof?

[TexasSkinsFan]

Career:

Colt McCoy---58.3 comp%--4388--21 TDs--20 INTs--74.8 rating

Kirk Cousins-56.2 comp%--1329--8 TDs--10 INTs--68.6 rating

 

Since the threads all groovy now I don't want to bring the mood down lower but honestly what does this show or prove unless you give this some context. Where is the context there and what does that tell you? I am sure you posted this with the hope that people actually believe that Colt McCoy is as good as KC but here is the truth about the comparison.

 

Colt McCoy has started 21 NFL games and has averaged 1 TD per start. He has one game in 21 starts where he threw for over 300 yards. He has never started a game and passed for 3 TD's. He has been sacked 53 times in those starts. And his team starting record is 6 wins with 15 losses. In those 6 wins he passed for 74 yards (W1), 174 yards (w2), 211 yards (w3), 210 yards (w4), 178 yards (w5), and 199 yards (w6). In those wins he threw a total of 4 TD passes and one of those wins his team won 6-3.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/coltmccoy/497123/gamelogs?season=2010

 

Frankly I do not see anything at all of value here in Colt McCoy and his starts have been pitiful when you consider who he would be replacing.

 

KC has started 4 games in his NFL career. He has averaged 269 passing yards per game in his starts. He has two games in 4 starts where he threw for over 300 yards. He has one game start where he passed for 3 TD's. He has been sacked 7 times in those starts. And his team starting record is 1 wins with 3 losses where two losses was by a single point. In those games the team scored an average of over 3 TD's per game.

 

The NFL draft history has way more failures that "graded" out well but couldn't produce anything in this league. There are practice heroes and there are playmakers. I get that some of you don't "see" KC as anything special but when you get into the numbers the reason teams would be interested in this player is they aren't blinded by this man's output in limited action and aren't trying to compare the failure that Colt McCoy's NFL career is to KC.

 

CM is much less the QB that KC will ever be and I'm pretty sure that once KC does leave Washington he is going to become a star in this league. Time will tell if I'm right or wrong but there is a reason that HOF QB's and today's great QB's didn't start there careers off as hot as KC has.

 

Given the opportunity of 4 starts KC has done much more then most of you here want to give him credit for and imo that's likely because of the long history of QB backup controversy on this forum. If he was on another team many of you would be salivating over this man's potential if Washington needed a QB

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Lol, its funny to watch the reaction to simply posting their stats.

 

So because people like Cousin's we shouldn't look at his stats? lol

Those stats belong to Cousin's you can try to rationalize them away or do whatever mental gymnastics you need to make you feel better but the stats are the stats.

 

And you can't say that Cousin's stats don't suck eggs and maintain that Colt's stats suck eggs without being a hypocrite.

 

Cousin's and McCoy aren't prospects anymore they're in the league. They're not evaluated based on skillset anymore they're evaluated based on production. 

And trust me I can talk all day about their physical attributes all day long.

And speaking of physical skillset there are late round prospects with better physical skillset then Kirk.

 

You didn't offer a single intelligent response to any of my points.

 

What exactly was "funny" about my explaining why your post of their stats was worthless?

 

If your only reaction is to laugh, then I guess you've helped prove my point.

 

While you're struggling with understanding my post, I'm pretty sure nobody else interpreted my words as "since we like Cousins we shouldn't look at his stats". Everyone else read it as you don't have much understanding of stats to think the ones you posted showed anyone anything.

 

And if following my explanation as to why it's asinine to compare a QB's first four games to another QB's first season and a half worth of games is difficult, then find a smart friend who can read my posts while sitting next to you and explain it to you. If what I wrote constitutes "mental gymnastics" in your mind, then you're easily confused.

 

Finally, I never said either Cousins OR McCoy's stats for their first 4 games sucked eggs...mediocre stats for a young QB's first four games are the norm. But--follow along here--if, like McCoy, those stats do NOT improve after an entire season's worth of additional starts...and in fact get noticeably worse (again, like with McCoy), THEN those stats suck eggs. Here's what probably confused you: Cousins hasn't started more than 4 games yet. So until he proves himself incapable of improving--something thousands of NFL players have shown themselves capable of over the decades--Cousins' stats don't suck eggs. They are par for the course for young QBs, Luck, RG3, Russell and Cam notwithstanding.

 

It's cute that you think Cousins should be treated like an established vet with a "career" to base the analysis of their stats on. But that thinking is flawed beyond recognition.

 

C'mon you're better then this Califan.

Did I write starts determined the better QB? Or did I write better back-up?

Ah, so the worse QB can make the better backup. Yeah, makes perfect sense lol...how stupid of me to think otherwise.

[TSO]

This isn't directed at DG, but I've noticed that people are brimming with confidence in their opinions on Cousins to the point of making concrete statements about him here. 

 

There is still plenty of potential with Cousins, who's a third year QB and has only started 4 games (3 of which came at the end of an awful season on an awful team), that is consistently being ignored. 

 

There isn't a single person here being sincere and honest who can say that Cousins will NOT become something more (or less, of course) than he has been. All we can say is he's been up and down with one really high up (Browns 2012), a good game (Falcons 2013), a mediocre game (Dallas 2013) and one really low down (Giants 2013).  

 

One of these concrete statements that really irks me is the "we're screwed if he has to play more than 4 games" line, how the heck do you know that? I mean, really? How do you know a guy who has started in only 4 games and is going into only his third year will not end up being good enough to consistently win us games? 

 

At least put an "I think" in there or something. Or maybe a "history has shown". Wow. It's like a straight up fact in some minds and it's pretty scary to think anyone is that sure about a guy with such limited experience. 

 

I like Cousins a lot and think he's got a future as a starter in the league. I haven't seen his arm be an issue at all and I've seen him make some beautiful throws deep with some nice zip and, furthermore, there are plenty of good to elite QBs in this league who have had their arm strength (or some other physical issue) questioned at one point or another (Brady, Manning, Brees, Romo, Palmer, Warner, Dalton, etc...).

 

So I won't make any concrete statements about him at this point. It's unfortunate to see so many who are willing to do so. I'm pretty sure that's where some of us differ about Cousins. It's not that we "clamor" for him... it's that we see potential goodness to greatness in him and find little to no reason not to. God willing, there is a GM out there who does as well and gives up a high pick for him. We'd all win, right?    

[TexasSkinsFan]

Cousins and Mccoy are basically the same guy. They can get you through a 3-4 week stretch but you're in trouble after that. If RG3 goes down long term the season is a wrap whether Cousins is there or not.

 

You can get through with CM if you rely on the rush to bail you out. On the other hand if you want a passing QB who will put up yards and points through the air and move the offense without 100% relying on the rush then KC wins out over CM. Saying otherwise is not looking at what these men have done starting in the NFL

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/kirkcousins/2532820/gamelogs?season=2013

 

Potential without results like CM is just failure no matter how you dissect that. CM has been passed around the league like a dish rag for a reason, he's not a good QB. Would anyone be thinking today here that we could trade CM for a draft pick? Of course not. Point is there is a significant downgrade between these two players

[darrelgreenie]

You didn't offer a single intelligent response to any of my points.

 

What exactly was "funny" about my explaining why your post of their stats was worthless?

 

If your only reaction is to laugh, then I guess you've helped prove my point.

 

While you're struggling with understanding my post, I'm pretty sure nobody else interpreted my words as "since we like Cousins we shouldn't look at his stats". Everyone else read it as you don't have much understanding of stats to think the ones you posted showed anyone anything.

 

And if following my explanation as to why it's asinine to compare a QB's first four games to another QB's first season and a half worth of games is difficult, then find a smart friend who can read my posts while sitting next to you and explain it to you. If what I wrote constitutes "mental gymnastics" in your mind, then you're easily confused.

 

Finally, I never said either Cousins OR McCoy's stats for their first 4 games sucked eggs...mediocre stats for a young QB's first four games are the norm. But--follow along here--if, like McCoy, those stats do NOT improve after an entire season's worth of additional starts...and in fact get noticeably worse (again, like with McCoy), THEN those stats suck eggs. Here's what probably confused you: Cousins hasn't started more than 4 games yet. So until he proves himself incapable of improving--something thousands of NFL players have shown themselves capable of over the decades--Cousins' stats don't suck eggs. They are par for the course for young QBs, Luck, RG3, Russell and Cam notwithstanding.

 

It's cute that you think Cousins should be treated like an established vet with a "career" to base the analysis of their stats on. But that thinking is flawed beyond recognition.

Ah, so the worse QB can make the better backup. Yeah, makes perfect sense lol...how stupid of me to think otherwise.

Holy meltdown batman.

Lol, I posted their stats. Didn't write anything. Just posted their stats which basically caused you're current meltdown.

If the stats don't mean anything why such a strong reaction from their mere posting?

'The lady doth protest too much, methinks...'

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Holy meltdown batman.

Lol, I posted their stats. Didn't write anything. Just posted their stats which basically caused you're current meltdown.

If the stats don't mean anything why such a strong reaction from their mere posting?

'The lady doth protest too much, methinks...'

 

There isn't an ES'er alive who thinks I had a "meltdown" lol...my posting style is far more well known for that to be the interpretation. I usually only get those types of retorts when someone who I debate with can't come up with anything of value to say--can't attack the logic, attack the person using the logic, and all that there.

 

And, yes, we all know that you just posted random stats for no reason whatsoever. you betcha.

 

Here's one final tip: I don't write my responses to get you to understand anything--it's obvious that's a lost cause. I write them to let everyone else reading the thread see my logic, and expose your lack of same. That's one reason I never get upset lol...

[darrelgreenie]

The meltdown is evidenced by stooping low enough to resort to insults.

That shows people you're true demeanor regardless of what you say or think about how posters feel about you.

 

                                                                                                                          

 

Who is the better QB right now between Thad Lewis and Kirk Cousins?

[TexasSkinsFan]

Holy meltdown batman.

Lol, I posted their stats. Didn't write anything. Just posted their stats which basically caused you're current meltdown.

If the stats don't mean anything why such a strong reaction from their mere posting?

'The lady doth protest too much, methinks...'

 

The stats you posted have no context and without context they are meaningless. Just as it's meaningless to me to see someone post thinking that Colt McCoy is the answer for this team if Griffin were to go down to injury again.

 

I know it's mellow dramatic but going to go there anyway....when people say "The Redskins would be fine without Griffin" or make reference to another injury to Griffin should that happen I have to wonder to myself if these people truely understand the context of what they speak?

 

If Griffin were to have another knee injury....God Forbid....but if he were his career might seriously be over. This franchise could find themselves back to the drawing board looking for a franchise QB. If they let KC go for less then a 2nd round pick this year how foolish would that be for them to do not knowing how much KC could improve upon his current body of work?

 

To me I've long thought that all things were possible. Like it's possible that Griffin gets hurt again or doesn't want to re-sign here when his contract expires. Like it's possible that KC could be re-signed here when his rookie contract expires regardless of Grffin's status. Like it's possible that KC stays here to backup the next two years to insure that Griffin is truly this teams franchise QB to lead them to the world title. I see all kinds of possibilities.

 

The best analogy here that I can think of is insurance. KC right now is like Full Coverage insurance in that it's expensive but well worth it if needed. He is potentially a future franchise QB sitting on the teams bench. CM is like liability insurance with a 1000 dollar deductible which is OK if you never really need to use it but if you do oh boy that's gonna be expensive. I like knowing that Griffin is the starter and I want him to remain the starter but that doesn't mean that I personally am blind to the fact that we don't know what Griffins going to do in 14. We all hope he does great, we all think he's gonna do great, but none of us really knows for sure. That's why I like KC being on the team, if something happens we have one of the best QB's to relieve him who potentially could be the answer to future franchise QB here. I personally don't think you dump that for anything less then top value

[darrelgreenie]

There isn't an ES'er alive who thinks I had a "meltdown" lol...my posting style is far more well known for that to be the interpretation. I usually only get those types of retorts when someone who I debate with can't come up with anything of value to say--can't attack the logic, attack the person using the logic, and all that there.

And, yes, we all know that you just posted random stats for no reason whatsoever. you betcha.

Here's one final tip: I don't write my responses to get you to understand anything--it's obvious that's a lost cause. I write them to let everyone else reading the thread see my logic, and expose your lack of same. That's one reason I never get upset lol...

The meltdown is evidenced by stooping low enough to resort to insults.

That shows people your true demeanor regardless of what you say or think about how posters feel about you.

 

bolded-underlined-in red=lol, you should re-read your post

                                                                                                                           

 

Who is the better QB right now between Thad Lewis and Kirk Cousins?

[jkthepresident]

I don't really see the point of keeping Kirk if other teams want him. He hasn't shown that he should start over Robert and if Robert suffers another big injury, the season is over and we probably move on from RG3 altogether at that point or give him one more year. Kirk wouldn't save anything or anyone.

[Soup's Uncle]

I don't really see the point of keeping Kirk if other teams want him. He hasn't shown that he should start over Robert and if Robert suffers another big injury, the season is over and we probably move on from RG3 altogether at that point or give him one more year. Kirk wouldn't save anything or anyone.

Agreed here.  If RG3 tears his ACL again, or has another devastating injury to that knee, we gotta start thinking it's a career ender.  You'd have to think about moving on and starting over.

[TexasSkinsFan]

The meltdown is evidenced by stooping low enough to resort to insults.

That shows people you're true demeanor regardless of what you say or think about how posters feel about you.

 

                                                                                                                          

 

Who is the better QB right now between Thad Lewis and Kirk Cousins?

 

Hopefully you saw this but will post it again...

 

KC has started 4 games in his NFL career. He has averaged 269 passing yards per game in his starts. He has two games in 4 starts where he threw for over 300 yards. He has one game start where he passed for 3 TD's. He has been sacked 7 times in those starts. And his team starting record is 1 wins with 3 losses where two losses was by a single point. In those games the team scored an average of over 3 TD's per game.

 

On the other hand

 

Thad Lewis has started 5 NFL games. He has never thrown for over 300 yards. He has never passed for 3 TD's in a single game. He has been sacked 17 times in those starts. And his team starting record is 2 wins with 3 losses. In those 5 games he passed for 204 yards (L1), 216 yards (L2), 202 yards (W1), 193 yards (W2), and 247 yards(L3). In those games he threw a total of 4 TD passes and 3 INT's. His teams scored an average of 19.3 points per game

 

 

To me KC is better if I was in the market looking for potential starting QB's

[Califan007 The Constipated]

The meltdown is evidenced by stooping low enough to resort to insults.

That shows people you're true demeanor regardless of what you say or think about how posters feel about you.

 

 

I'll say it again: I've been here long enough and have posted WAY too many times for anyone on who has been on this board more than a month to interpret anything I wrote as a "meltdown". No, I respond in the same manner that someone responds to me...only I ratched it up another notch lol. But again, I'm not writing this for you to understand, I'm writing it for whoever else reads this thread.

 

Actually, what I would consider a "meltdown" (or an overly emotional response) would be when someone constantly edits their posts and keeps going back to my post to say something else they just thought of lol...that describes someone on this thread.

[darrelgreenie]

I'll say it again: I've been here long enough and have posted WAY too many times for anyone on who has been on this board more than a month to interpret anything I wrote as a "meltdown". No, I respond in the same manner that someone responds to me...only I ratched it up another notch lol. But again, I'm not writing this for you to understand, I'm writing it for whoever else reads this thread.

 

Actually, what I would consider a "meltdown" (or an overly emotional response) would be when someone constantly edits their posts and keeps going back to my post to say something else they just thought of lol...that describes someone on this thread.

Because you've been on ES a long time means you can use empty rhetoric to explain away your meltdown? Um sure okay, sounds good to me, lol

[Califan007 The Constipated]

The meltdown is evidenced by stooping low enough to resort to insults.

That shows people your true demeanor regardless of what you say or think about how posters feel about you.

 

bolded-underlined-in red=lol, you should re-read your post

                                                                                                                           

 

Who is the better QB right now between Thad Lewis and Kirk Cousins?

 

Jeebus, you responded twice to my post lol...

 

Calm down, collect your thoughts, and then post once. *thumbsup*

 

And I have no idea who is the better QB right now...I've never watched Thad Lewis play. If you were expecting me to run over to NFL.com and check out his stats to reach an opinion, you thought wrong.

[TexasSkinsFan]

I don't really see the point of keeping Kirk if other teams want him. He hasn't shown that he should start over Robert and if Robert suffers another big injury, the season is over and we probably move on from RG3 altogether at that point or give him one more year. Kirk wouldn't save anything or anyone.

 

I was fine with Griffin starting last season. I wanted the season to be a learning curve for him to become a pocket passer. I believe that every running QB to have championship success has to do that at some time (Young, Elway etc). But to be completely honest when KC came off the bench in Atlanta I do think that he made me question that. That was the next game after that embarrassing loss at home to the Chiefs where the team scored no points and KC led the offense to the highest passing yardage for QB and WR all year. I did wonder if he shouldn't have started the season from the beginning because he looked 100 times better then what Griffin looked like in those three most recent games against the 49ers, Chiefs, and Giants he started. By that time the season was lost and it didn't matter.

 

Now with that out of the way....I do not want Cousins starting. I want Griffin to start. I think Griffin's game in 12 and the price the team paid to get him demands that he start. I just dont want to give him away to just any team for just anything because for as much as I don't know what QB Griffin will be in 14 I don't know what QB KC will be in 14 either and I think this team needs them both right now much more then without either of them

Jeebus, you responded twice to my post lol...

 

Calm down, collect your thoughts, and then post once. *thumbsup*

 

And I have no idea who is the better QB right now...I've never watched Thad Lewis play. If you were expecting me to run over to NFL.com and check out his stats to reach an opinion, you thought wrong.

 

That was my job! I am the gopher statologist here in this thread. Just look up and you will see the comparison

[darrelgreenie]

Hopefully you saw this but will post it again...

 

KC has started 4 games in his NFL career. He has averaged 269 passing yards per game in his starts. He has two games in 4 starts where he threw for over 300 yards. He has one game start where he passed for 3 TD's. He has been sacked 7 times in those starts. And his team starting record is 1 wins with 3 losses where two losses was by a single point. In those games the team scored an average of over 3 TD's per game.

 

On the other hand

 

Thad Lewis has started 5 NFL games. He has never thrown for over 300 yards. He has never passed for 3 TD's in a single game. He has been sacked 17 times in those starts. And his team starting record is 2 wins with 3 losses. In those 5 games he passed for 204 yards (L1), 216 yards (L2), 202 yards (W1), 193 yards (W2), and 247 yards(L3). In those games he threw a total of 4 TD passes and 3 INT's. His teams scored an average of 19.3 points per game

 

 

To me KC is better if I was in the market looking for potential starting QB's

Oh wait I thought stats were meaningless? J/k I'm not gonna parse through all the stats nor quibble over which stats are relevant. But suffice it to say that you could make a pro/con case for either one after you consider their respective situations moving on though...

 

You think the league (other then the Browns) sees any real difference between Kirk Cousin and Thad Lewis?

What do you think Thad Lewis trade value should be?