THE HAMMER'IN HOG Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 The best hope for trading Cousins is for Kyle to stand on the table for him. Convince Pettine/Farmer that Cousins is a starting caliber QB they can acquire via trade w/o using a 1st rounder. Yea...I guess we will find out what Kyle thinks of KC, but keep in mind Hoyer looked pretty good before he was hurt last season. I would take a 2nd for KC in this draft, beyond that I don't know if the value outweighs a good insurance policy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Shockingly, Mike Shanahan might be proven wrong on another subject, but will see. The first round pick is hyperbole, I'll give him a pass for it, but the idea that he can't be devalued by playing him in those last 3 games -- I suspect he was dead wrong about that, http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24374972/mike-shanahan-says-kirk-cousins-could-bring-firstround-pick "If he lights it up, hey, maybe we can bring a first-round draft choice back to this organization, and say, 'Hey, who are we gonna take in the first round,'" Shanahan told ESPN 980, via Sports Bog. "And I think by him playing and Robert not playing, it gives us a chance to have a few options for our organization that we wouldn't normally have, and the safety of our quarterback going into the offseason is preserved. ... And we're still getting a chance to see a guy that we've got a lot of confidence in go out there and play. And his value can only go up. It cannot go down. It can only go up." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Yea...I guess we will find out what Kyle thinks of KC, but keep in mind Hoyer looked pretty good before he was hurt last season. I would take a 2nd for KC in this draft, beyond that I don't know if the value outweighs a good insurance policy? I guess it depends on how you view Kirk, this draft and Colt McCoy. If you view Kirk as a developmental back-up QB and you agree with the consensus view that the 2014 draft is one of the deepest in decades and you consider McCoy a decent back-up then whatever compensation you get equal to or above Kirk's 4th round draft pick is worth the trade. If you view some of those factors different then you might expect more compensation or consider Cousin's a 'must' keep if you don't get whatever compensation you think is fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I don't think there is a lot of interest in Kirk. Having him start the last three games of last season diminished his trade value. He played against three of the worst defenses in the league and didn't look good. Say what you will about Kevin Kolb, but he lit up bad defenses which drove up his trade value. I'm not saying Kirk is bad, but what he's shown doesn't warrant a high draft pick. If there is any value, it's gonna be with Kyle. This is the same guy that championed Rex Grossman for so many years, so he's proven he'll see things others don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Ok, now i see the Bucs want a 2nd for Glennon and cosell at NFL films says he is far more advanced than Griffin. That is absolutely hilarious. If Glennon fetches a 2nd round pick than Cousins is worth at least that. Id rather have Cousins than Glennon and then to say Glennon is a better prospect than Griffin and they shouldnt even be in the same conversation. Yeah right in what world. Get a load if this.... http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000346963/article/mike-glennon-could-be-traded-for-secondround-pick Glennon was impressive last year as a rookie, IMO. The tape and the numbers don't lie. If Cousins played as well as Glennon, we wouldn't even be having this discussion about what his worth was. Glennon was a 3rd rd pick, and played himself to a round better than that. That's not unreasonable. No way Kirk's performance warrants getting a pick 2 rounds better than where he was drafted. At least not so far. And I like Kirk a lot, but his play of recent vintage was questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I don't think there is a lot of interest in Kirk. Having him start the last three games of last season diminished his trade value. He played against three of the worst defenses in the league and didn't look good. Say what you will about Kevin Kolb, but he lit up bad defenses which drove up his trade value. I'm not saying Kirk is bad, but what he's shown doesn't warrant a high draft pick. Kolb actually got benched because he played so poorly before he got concussed against Green Bay, which the eagles used as an excuse to replace him with Vick when he obviously wasn't the guy they thought he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Couple pieces of competition for a Cousins trade ... first, it appears as though a lot of these QBs are going to slip out of the first round and into the second. Second, Mike Glennon and Ryan Mallet are both on the market as well. Mallet a former 3rd rounder without experience outside of the preseason with just one year left on his contract, so maybe slightly devalued. Glennon with 3 years left on his deal, has more value, IMO. Cousins = 3rd or 4th Mallet = 4th Glennon = 2nd or 3rd All it takes is one team to fall in love, so I'm hoping someone sees Cousins as a superior/instant upgrade v. a developmental QB in the 2nd or 3rd ... ideally a 2nd rounder would be the best bet. I'm kind of rooting for Cleveland to give us their 2nd ... or for Houston to trade back from #1 to #3/4 and get Mack ... use the extra 2nd they get in trading back to trade us for Cousins. Houston walking away with, say, Mack at #3, Moses at #33 and Cousins would be a solid haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkthepresident Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Shockingly, Mike Shanahan might be proven wrong on another subject, but will see. The first round pick is hyperbole, I'll give him a pass for it, but the idea that he can't be devalued by playing him in those last 3 games -- I suspect he was dead wrong about that, http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24374972/mike-shanahan-says-kirk-cousins-could-bring-firstround-pick "If he lights it up, hey, maybe we can bring a first-round draft choice back to this organization, and say, 'Hey, who are we gonna take in the first round,'" Shanahan told ESPN 980, via Sports Bog. "And I think by him playing and Robert not playing, it gives us a chance to have a few options for our organization that we wouldn't normally have, and the safety of our quarterback going into the offseason is preserved. ... And we're still getting a chance to see a guy that we've got a lot of confidence in go out there and play. And his value can only go up. It cannot go down. It can only go up." Reading that quote in his voice makes me so happy that he is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangSteve Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 And tell me; if RG3 goes down, who's stepping in? Get rid of KC...RG3 goes down, season over...please don't respond with Colt McCoy, I just as soon bring Rexy back! Excellent point! I think Cousins would do better than just average with the team that's around him this season. I think we stand a good chance of winning if Griffin did go down, with Cousins leading the team, not McCoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Couple pieces of competition for a Cousins trade ... first, it appears as though a lot of these QBs are going to slip out of the first round and into the second. Second, Mike Glennon and Ryan Mallet are both on the market as well. Mallet a former 3rd rounder without experience outside of the preseason with just one year left on his contract, so maybe slightly devalued. Glennon with 3 years left on his deal, has more value, IMO. Cousins = 3rd or 4th Mallet = 4th Glennon = 2nd or 3rd Much like Cousin's with the Browns, I can't imagine he has much trade value outside of Houston. I loved Mallett as prospect. Coaches son, pro-style offense and the dude has a hand cannon. (his reported affinty for 'treating his nose' hurt his draft stock) I hope he'll eventually gets a chance to play. I think the Bellichicks re-sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I don't know the answers to the questions you're asking. I'm not making those assertions. I can tell you why I think Glennon is worth more though: o Glennon is the better overall talent and thus was drafted higher then Cousins o Glennon has more playing experience o Glennon has more production You can't just go by when a player was drafted. 2012 was a very deep QB class. Players slip in the draft all the time simply because their position hit a spot in the draft where most teams were looking at other positions. Most scouts had Cousins rated as a 2nd-3rd round pick. Cousins was one of those "wow, he's still on the board" players. That's why when we drafted him it made a bunch of news and sparked a lot of debate. Cousins was very well known in college. Cousins beat out Nick Foles for the starting job at Michigan State. There's more to Cousins resume than the Giants game last year, where the entire team shut it down. Yes, Glennon has more starting experience, but there was a reason for that. Tampa doesn't have a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuy Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 The rumor they were pushing on 'Mike and Mike' this morning that they were hearing was the Browns were considering giving up their second first-rounder (#26 overall) for Cousins. That would only make sense if it was the Browns. Kyle Shanahan may have convinced them he is starting-QB material in the NFL. Also, the Browns are a cheap organization, and may not want to pay two first rounders. Doing this, they would only have to pick up Cousins' fourth round contract. Of course, I would think the Browns would want us to give them a low-round pick along with kirk in exchange for a first rounder, but that is the rumor they were floating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 The rumor they were pushing on 'Mike and Mike' this morning that they were hearing was the Browns were considering giving up their second first-rounder (#26 overall) for Cousins. That would only make sense if it was the Browns. Kyle Shanahan may have convinced them he is starting-QB material in the NFL. Also, the Browns are a cheap organization, and may not want to pay two first rounders. Doing this, they would only have to pick up Cousins' fourth round contract. Of course, I would think the Browns would want us to give them a low-round pick along with kirk in exchange for a first rounder, but that is the rumor they were floating. Seriously? Who was pushing that rumor? Holy crap. I'd cry ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 You can't just go by when a player was drafted. 2012 was a very deep QB class. Players slip in the draft all the time simply because their position hit a spot in the draft where most teams were looking at other positions. Most scouts had Cousins rated as a 2nd-3rd round pick. Cousins was one of those "wow, he's still on the board" players. That's why when we drafted him it made a bunch of news and sparked a lot of debate. Cousins was very well known in college. Cousins beat out Nick Foles for the starting job at Michigan State. There's more to Cousins resume than the Giants game last year, where the entire team shut it down. Yes, Glennon has more starting experience, but there was a reason for that. Tampa doesn't have a franchise QB. I am not going 'just by' where they were drafted to determine who I think was the better talent. I think objectively Glennon is the better talent or higher rated player and the evidence of this is where he was drafted. Any player snapshot value is determined by where they are actually drafted not where perception 'thought' they should be drafted. Both Glennon and Cousins were "considered" 2-3 round picks but Glennon was actually drafted in the 3rd, Cousins was not. This isn't some difference that can be explained away with rhetoric. Regardless of the reasons Glennon does have the draft position, experience and production over Cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Regardless of the reasons Glennon does have the draft position, experience and production over Cousins. So does Jason Campbell, just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuy Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Seriously? Who was pushing that rumor? Holy crap. I'd cry ... Like I said, I heard it on 'Mike and Mike' when I was driving to the store this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Like I said, I heard it on 'Mike and Mike' when I was driving to the store this morning. I wonder what the source of that rumor was? I'll have to dig. If Cousins is even being mentioned in the same breath as a 1st round pick, that can only be good news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davistron20 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Like I said, I heard it on 'Mike and Mike' when I was driving to the store this morning. I would absolutely s*** myself if that happened. IF that were the case, trade that sucker down for a couple more draft picks. Pick up some 2nd-4th round depth for our team. The talent is there in the draft to make some of those rounds into starters. I don't think that's likely, because I doubt Allen would lie about no one having interest in Cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuy Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I would absolutely s*** myself if that happened. IF that were the case, trade that sucker down for a couple more draft picks. Pick up some 2nd-4th round depth for our team. The talent is there in the draft to make some of those rounds into starters. I don't think that's likely, because I doubt Allen would lie about no one having interest in Cousins. Sure he would. Don't believe anything a GM or head coach says in the week leading up to the draft. A lot of it is smoke to keep the other teams guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bantu Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 A trade wud definitely make things interesting but what is a realistic trade offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davistron20 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 haha, I don't doubt they lie, but I just don't see the benefit of it, unless it was tongue in cheek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bantu Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I wonder what the source of that rumor was? I'll have to dig. If Cousins is even being mentioned in the same breath as a 1st round pick, that can only be good news You'd almost HAVE to pull the trigger in that situation. Quick question, though, are there any other veteran QBs available that can compete with McCoy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 You'd almost HAVE to pull the trigger in that situation. Quick question, though, are there any other veteran QBs available that can compete with McCoy? It would be criminal not to. We've already stated it would take a 2nd, so a 1st would surely do the trick. That #26 pick would give so much flexibility. I think I stated one scenario before and got yelled at, but if we even got a 2nd for Cousins, I advocated turning pick #34 into a low 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. via a trade down. But the 26th pick could net you a low to mid 2nd, 3rd and 5th. So you could have 2 2s, 2 3s, 4 5 5 6 7 Or just stand pat and take 2 impact starters at 26 and 34 and grab some guys that fall to 66 and 102 who could contribute too. I'd love to turn Cousins into a combination of 2/3/4 though, which would be the case with the 26th pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Hypothetical trade value for #26: 1(26) = 2(40), 3(72) with Minnesota 1(26) = 2(56), 3(77), 3(94), 4(129) with San Fran SF might be the best trade partner at any point since they have so many picks. That scenario would have you with: 2(34), 2(56), 3(66), 3(77), 3(94), 4(102), 4(129), 5(141), 6(178), 7(217) Hell of a draft haul that would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 ^^ I was all for trading down in the 2011 draft when we needed quantity and depth... but this team right now needs game changers. We have enough average to good depth players. We need the guys who instill fear in coordinators, especially on defense, and trading down makes it less likely to grab one, no matter how many people tell me how deep the draft is, lol. I swear if I had a nickel for how many times I hear that every year I'd have lunch for a couple days paid off. So I'm taking "stand pat and take 2 impact starters" for $500 Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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