Skinsinparadise Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Snyder also wanted Santana Moss over Rod Gardner, but Schotty overruled him. I heard this too. this probably emboldened him. Now hopefully he's more humble and stays out of the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Now it's Allen's turn. It remains to be seen if Snyder continues to sit on his hands but recent precedent seems to support a case he will much more than he won't. That's basically the bottom line. Who knows with Snyder though. A couple of years ago Snyder was quoted as saying "As long as I have a coach like Joe Gibbs or Mike Shanahan, I don't have to be as involved." Well, now Dan doesn't have a coach of that pedigree. Snyder also bragged in 2008 that he called Joe Gibbs after they hired Zorn and said "I think he'll make a great head coach!" Yet after things go south in 2009, Zorn becomes all Vinny's fault ("it was his responsibility that the owner doesn't hire someone incompetent"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Frfran- I think that Snyder and being "delusional" quote means something different to you than it does to others. I'm sure he is worried about the pruduct on the field. But I don't know how you make the jump from that to him overruling a two time Super Bowl winning coach - not only at the quarterback position, where he's supposed to be a guru, but at the most important position on the team, the position on which his sons success is completely dependent. Believing every word that comes from schefter, graziano, Jenkins or anyone else at the post is like taking Baghdad bobs word about how his troops are doing vs the US marines. You really have to consider the source. And get less ambiguous quotes to base your ideas on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I really honestly don't care what Snyder did in 2008. You're choosing between Larry, Mo and Curly if your decision makers are Vinny, Zorn and Dan. If they had drafted Jamal Charles, then they would have found a way to ruin him, because he and Portis could not have shared carries. Zorn wouldn't have had any idea how to handle 2 good RBs, and the entire thing would have collapsed regardless. And in coming into 2007, there was no reason to jettison Portis, and get another RB. I like best player available, but Portis was arguably the best offensive player on the team at the end of 2007, and drafting a guy in the second round at that position wouldn't really seem to make sense. Though, VInny should have taken Kelly off the board for medical reasons, and they should have gone a different direction. But the fact that it came to that discussion at all shows how dysfunctional the entire structure was. Also, not entirely sure why a situation involving Dan Snyder in 2008 is being reported by Shefter 5 years later. Seems like it's just sour grapes on somebody's part. Whether it be Shanahan, VInny, or somebody else who's no longer in the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailyeah1 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 The front office sure was a circus back then . not to make a joke but instead of the the lion tamer ,strongman and the acrobat we ended up with three clowns with our top picks. not that it could have made any difference but Deshaun Jackson ray rice or a few others would have been better choices but like said in earlier posts that's six years ago .Shannahans drafts were lightyears better but not praising or defending him obviously there was something wrong and he got canned . Now if we have success with his handpicked players we are going to hear stories about him gloating about how Gruden took what he built and ran with it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Nothing to see here. Just more "hate" with the ultimate puppet master Mike Shanahan pulling the strings. Move along. Just 'hate" is all this is. Several Redskins fans know the truth, all Snyder wants to do is win!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Bass Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Right, "documented" as in, said by anonymous sources, whereas the insiders, who actually have proven time and again to have correct information, have been the ones who said Kyle was a big proponent of McNabb's. Donovan McNabb was the toy Kyle Shanahan never wanted Jay Glazer: Kyle shanahan has wanted to bench Mcnabb for weeks "Many in the organization wanted McNabb, though Kyle Shanahan was not among them. The offensive coordinator was among those who felt a quarterback like Marc Bulger would be a good fill-in choice until the Redskins could draft and develop a young quarterback. Coaches evaluated film of McNabb and noticed flaws in McNabb's performance - poor reads, inexplicably poor throws, stretches where he relied on freelancing too much" http://www.washingto...21802807_2.html These are only "anonymous sources." I'm curious to see what your "insiders" say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Not to defend Snyder, but Gibbs did jones so hard for Desmond Howard, he insisted on drafting him 4th overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 You really have to consider the source. And get less ambiguous quotes to base your ideas on. Got you, it's always about how you analyse things, I saw sarcasm reading "delusional" and I've been sarcastic too, I confess. I mentioned this article because to me it was worth reading and I don't think they made up this McNabb/Snyder story, I also considered other sources which were saying basically the same thing. The Kyle Shanahan argument was really mind-boggling to me. As I said in other posts I have no hate towards anyone (it's just a game), I just dislike Snyder's ways. My patience and hope are wearing so thin that sometimes I'm wondering if we will ever see the light at the end of the tunnel under his regimen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squatch66 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Every time the 2008 draft is brought up it just infuriates me. Just looking at the what was available at every one of those 2nd round picks...including guys the board was screaming for like Jordy Nelson or Calais Campbell...and coming away with Sleepy, Comb, and Fantasia's backup dancer. Just FML I'm not talking just as a U fan but I was pissed when the Cards took Campbell the pick before we got the Comb. We desperately needed some talent on the Dline and Campbell would have been a stud when Shanny moved us over to the 34. I wanted us to take him over Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Been a while since anybody has mentioned the comb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Not to defend Snyder, but Gibbs did jones so hard for Desmond Howard, he insisted on drafting him 4th overall. That's not a good comparison at all. Desmond Howard didn't have any injury concerns. He was smallish but I'd bet that Gibbs saw him as a more dynamic Ricky Sanders. He was seen as a player who could help out on Teams as well as be a good slot receiver. No one knew in advance that he would come in with a big head and forget what made him such a good player in College. Hard work. GIbbs is not a personnel guy. That's never been his forte and he was undone the second go round by letting Snyderatto shop for the groceries. Gibbs 2.0 managed to make a good hearty meal outta potted meat and spam for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Got you, it's always about how you analyse things, I saw sarcasm reading "delusional" and I've been sarcastic too, I confess. I mentioned this article because to me it was worth reading and I don't think they made up this McNabb/Snyder story, I also considered other sources which were saying basically the same thing. The Kyle Shanahan argument was really mind-boggling to me. As I said in other posts I have no hate towards anyone (it's just a game), I just dislike Snyder's ways. My patience and hope are wearing so thin that sometimes I'm wondering if we will ever see the light at the end of the tunnel under his regimen. Here's the thing about Snyder that I mentioned earlier (and, btw, I'm not a fan if his and most if the decisions he's made as an owner)- Dan has been involved in things he shouldn't be ( like picking players) when he's had someone like Zorn as HC. When he's got people like Gibbs, shanahan (and Marty, for a year Til he stupidly wanted to be involved again) and, I believe Bruce Allen now as gm, he listens to them. Respectable football people with a reputation of knowing what they are doing. You just don't question them- you step back and let them do their thing. We can criricize Snyder for a lot, but he's just not this dumb. He would have to be an idiot to think he can tell shanahan he knows better than him about a player, specifically a qb. I think dan Snyder has put his nose in the football operations at times, but to think he did so with shanahan, IMO, is not reasonable. And the fact that these stories are coming out now -this latest one about something happening before shanny was a coach here- is curious to me. Every one that comes out makes dan appear more to blame for the last four years and takes more blame off shanny, even though this was 6 years ago. Curious, indeed. Especially since most of these stories are coming from shanny friendly sources. I'm skeptical, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I had managed to forget about Malcolm Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 "“If anyone thinks Dan Snyder is sitting in the owners box and counting his money and not worried about the product on the field, he’s delusional,” Delusional to think he's sitting doing nothing, meaning he's going to stick his nose into it = meddling. Worrying about the product on the field: yes, he wants to win (as if losing was an option) and will do whatever is necessary to do so = including meddling. C'mon, do you seriously believe they will tell the names of their multiple sources ?!! I see you brush away, dismiss these sources from multiple articles to fit your thinking, and yet when I asked you to provide a link or any proof or evidence about your Kyle theory you can't come up with anything. If all this isn't logical to you, that's strange to me, I think we do have a different notion of logic. That's fine with me, and I leave it there. We do are ways apart on this topic and we won't find a common ground about anything we've been talking about. You displayed such a passion (nothing bad here), in a matter of speaking, to come to the rescue of Snyder I almost wanted to ask, Dan is that you ? (just kidding). They didn't say "doing nothing." The quote seems to suggest Snyder isn't like one of the cheap owners where he doesn't care about the product on the field. Fact is, again, most owners do care and are involved with the team in terms of its overall direction. What matters is whether or not he's making the personnel decisions. Under Shanny he was not unless you want to suspend logic and contractual agreements in favor of an agenda. Sorry, but I am always going to favor logic and facts, in this case who Shanny is and the power he had, over media speculation backed by "sources." I already said that insiders who time and again are right with what they post, said the stuff about Kyle and that happened when the McNabb was "leaked" earlier. If you prefer to believe anonymous sources from media members who are usually and wrong and have had an axe to grind for 10+ years, rather than people who give info on here that are usually correct, then that's on you. If you're willing to believe utter nonsense that Shanny didn't have full control then that's on you and obviously no logic or reasoning is going to be favored over your willingness to believe Snyder meddles. Not coming to the rescue of Snyder, I'm pointing blame where it belongs, with Shanny, and trying to rescue you from buying into nonsense simply because the target is favorite one for many to go after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Donovan McNabb was the toy Kyle Shanahan never wanted Jay Glazer: Kyle shanahan has wanted to bench Mcnabb for weeks "Many in the organization wanted McNabb, though Kyle Shanahan was not among them. The offensive coordinator was among those who felt a quarterback like Marc Bulger would be a good fill-in choice until the Redskins could draft and develop a young quarterback. Coaches evaluated film of McNabb and noticed flaws in McNabb's performance - poor reads, inexplicably poor throws, stretches where he relied on freelancing too much" http://www.washingto...21802807_2.html These are only "anonymous sources." I'm curious to see what your "insiders" say. I went back and double-checked, and I goofed, I had it reversed. Insiders said same as that report, that Mike wanted McNabb and Kyle wanted Bulger. The idea Snyder told Shanny to get McNabb, given who Shanny is, his personality, and him just being given full control, and Shanny doing so when he didn't want to is laughable. As for the whole Malcom Kelly thing, it was when Cerrato was GM and he and Dan were buddies and the team eventually fell apart. IIRC, Cerrato was just as big of a fan of Kelly's. Either way, as grego pointed out, Snyder doesn't seem to overrule actual football people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 We can criricize Snyder for a lot, but he's just not this dumb. He would have to be an idiot to think he can tell shanahan he knows better than him about a player, specifically a qb. I think dan Snyder has put his nose in the football operations at times, but to think he did so with shanahan, IMO, is not reasonable. And the fact that these stories are coming out now -this latest one about something happening before shanny was a coach here- is curious to me. Every one that comes out makes dan appear more to blame for the last four years and takes more blame off shanny, even though this was 6 years ago." "In return, Shanahan indulged Snyder’s desire to add a big name. Shortly after Shanahan took over, the idea of trading for Philadelphia quarterback Donovan McNabb came up. Shanahan was hesitant, though the team clearly needed a quarterback. But his son, Kyle, openly didn’t like the idea, according to multiple members of the coaching staff. He believed McNabb’s footwork and mechanics were sloppy and, at 33 years old, that his speed was diminishing. Shanahan, with Snyder’s support, decided to give McNabb a chance." Link (from Sea Bass) This is something I couldn't understand why in the world Shanahan supposedly decided to sign McNabb ? How a washed-up, slow, lazy, red flagged (by the coaches) QB could fit with Shanahan ? That doesn't make any sense to me. Please correct me if I'm wrong here: usually when a HC trades for a big name he praises his qualities, skillset, etc... I don't remember Shanahan doing so with him, do you ? You mentioned "We can criricize Snyder for a lot, but he's just not this dumb." Remember who were nicknamed "dumb & dumber" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Bass Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I went back and double-checked, and I goofed, I had it reversed. Insiders said same as that report, that Mike wanted McNabb and Kyle wanted Bulger. The idea Snyder told Shanny to get McNabb, given who Shanny is, his personality, and him just being given full control, and Shanny doing so when he didn't want to is laughable. Define "full control." What are your sources for saying Shanahan has "full control" as you define it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Kind of a moot argument. What makes you think Charles was going to have the same success he's had in KC in DC? You have guys like Marshawn Lynch who didn't achieve real success until he went to Seattle, Drew Brees was pedestrian in SD and then he joins Sean Payton and is one of the best in recent history.. A guy can have talent, but sometimes its the combination of landing in the right place that helps a guy flourish in the league. Look at SF when Mike Singletary was there. He basically had the same roster Harbaugh inherited and look what happened to them. I completely agree with this, and i think it is lost in most player comparisons. I think to ME, the main thing this shows us about the Snyder that was Then (we hope) is that clear and present dangers being present in kelly's knee were completely ignored for whatever reason. Even if Kelly had turned out to have the sort of career we'r seeing in Hankerson, it would be at least somewhat acceptable, there could be a small argument to make on his behalf. But since he never did a damn thing because he was hurt coming in and constantly hurting and nursing, it makes it a really glaring error. If it were within the last 2 or 3 seasons I'd be much more upset. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Define "full control." What are your sources for saying Shanahan has "full control" as you define it? He had final say on ALL matters, and this was widely reported. He was given the title of executive VP as well. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4799532 Insiders also verified no interference stuff was written into the contract. Why is this so hard for some of you to believe/accept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Frfan- as far as post articles, I take them with a grain of salt. That's not to say there isn't some truth in there from time to time. But I believe the post will post some disparaging article about the redskins a little more than I believe mike shanahan would roll over and let dan pick his qb. Was dan supportive of the mcnabb trade? I'm sure he loved the idea. But it was mikes decision ultimately. He was the adult in this situation and he deserves the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Frfan- as far as post articles, I take them with a grain of salt. That's not to say there isn't some truth in there from time to time. But I believe the post will post some disparaging article about the redskins a little more than I believe mike shanahan would roll over and let dan pick his qb. Was dan supportive of the mcnabb trade? I'm sure he loved the idea. But it was mikes decision ultimately. He was the adult in this situation and he deserves the blame. I can agree with you on the grains of salt, you see, I'm not even mentioning Stephen A. Smith tweets here, but you didn't answer my questions. I'd like your personal input, since it doesn't make any sense to me. He traded for him despite the advise of his son, the coaches, and the fact that McNabb doesn't fit in his "QB mold" (wasn't compliant to the qualities/skillset needed). Shanahan can be blamed for many things he did, I wholeheartedly agree (being involved in this trade included). On the other hand I think he is a good QB talent evaluator, another reason why I don't think he is, or is the only one behind this trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Define "full control." What are your sources for saying Shanahan has "full control" as you define it? Even his mouthpiece and thread protagonist Schefter openly admits that. Why is this still open to debate? Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Bass Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 He had final say on ALL matters, and this was widely reported. He was given the title of executive VP as well. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4799532 Insiders also verified no interference stuff was written into the contract. Why is this so hard for some of you to believe/accept? See this part in bold? You failed to provide a source for the only thing for which I really wanted a source. Who are your insiders? Where are the links to what they said? That source you linked is the same source I posted a couple days ago in another thread, and there is a good chance that you actually got it from my post. We'll fully discuss it when you provide your other sources and nail down your definition of "full control." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Here you go: Shanahan refuses to hold himself accountable. This is a guy who has full control of the Washington Redskins. It’s in his contract. If he wants the walls at Redskins Park painted white — Snyder funds it. Shanahan wanted a bubble — he got it. He also wanted to move training camp away from Ashburn, Va — his wish came true. He spearheaded the new playing surface at FedEx Field — some wanted turf, but no, Shanahan wanted grass — guess what? He got that too. - See more at: http://proplayerinsiders.com/washington-redskins-owner-dan-snyder-making-right-moves-mike-shanahan/#sthash.pmYUGn0h.dpuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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