Slateman Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 http://www.hardballtimes.com/in-search-of-the-perfect-fastball-velocity-movement-and-location/ Conclusion: Slow, outside fastballs can be as effective as Mid 90s heat on the inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 http://www.hardballtimes.com/in-search-of-the-perfect-fastball-velocity-movement-and-location/ Conclusion: Slow, outside fastballs can be as effective as Mid 90s heat on the inside. Nice read Slateman, good article. I agree with this article, it also allows older pitchers with below 90 mph speed on their fastball continue to play. Yes, it's a former Atlanta Brave, but think Tom Glavine. His fastball was only mid 80s, but it was all about pitch placement/location that made him so effective, even up into his later years. Don't get me wrong, I love me some good ole nasty 100+mph heat with cheese on it, but I'll take an effective pitcher with 3-4 pitches and 85-90 mph fastball speed over a guy with two pitches that can throw 100. Not to mention the longevity added to their playing careers and I can only agree with the article "less likely to be injured". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Well, I went back and read this thread from the beginning (work was slow today) and if anyone considers him posting "The Braves rule", etc. trolling, then I've read more trolling directed towards him from others than he has dished out. I also saw debates between him and a handful of people in this thread where he is pointing out stats or his opinion on a topic (i.e. the shutting down of Stras prior to the end of the season, with a team to contend for a WS). It's a forum board, not everyone is going to agree with each other, specifically fans of different teams. Where else should he post his comments about the Braves? Here. Same with me as a Braves fan, or a Yankee fan, or a Giants fan, etc. This was a thread designed to talk about baseball, all teams, where one would expect fans to brag/boast about their team, rag each other some about other teams, etc. Fans of any team posting are in the minority here, unless your team is the Nats. Also, I would think if he were truly trolling Nats fans, he would be calling the Nats out in the Nats thread, but he's not made one post in there (if he did, point me to it - I scrolled backwards to page 29 and then from page 1-5 and didn't see one post from him). And I'm sure people are going to post more childish comments directed at me because I'm defending Bubble Screen, but I don't really care. Some of y'all make so much out of nothing. And this is not directed at you Popeman, just my elaboration/interpretation of what I read in this thread. Some specific posters in here go after him any chance they get. Hell, I got jumped on and called retarded because I'm a Braves fan and joined this thread to clarify some mis-facts about my Braves and defend my team...........yes, I felt the need to point that out again because if it were reversed and I said that about anyone on here, people would be all over me like a pack of wolves. With that said, lets get back to topic and discuss baseball and our respective teams. Standing ovation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Nice read Slateman, good article. I agree with this article, it also allows older pitchers with below 90 mph speed on their fastball continue to play. Yes, it's a former Atlanta Brave, but think Tom Glavine. His fastball was only mid 80s, but it was all about pitch placement/location that made him so effective, even up into his later years. Don't get me wrong, I love me some good ole nasty 100+mph heat with cheese on it, but I'll take an effective pitcher with 3-4 pitches and 85-90 mph fastball speed over a guy with two pitches that can throw 100. Not to mention the longevity added to their playing careers and I can only agree with the article "less likely to be injured". It makes me wonder how guys who throw hard are going to fair in a few years. They can get away with some mistakes because of that velocity. When the velocity goes, will they adjust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 It makes me wonder how guys who throw hard are going to fair in a few years. They can get away with some mistakes because of that velocity. When the velocity goes, will they adjust? That's what is plaguing Lincecum right now (the past 1-2 years). Actuallly, Pence is the LAST guy you want your kid to emulate. Well, the batting stance, anyway. Joe Simpson brings that up each time we play you guys haha. Read what I wrote again. I said because of the way he plays (100% hustle all the time), Pence was the guy I would want my kid to play like. I didn't say anything about copying his mechanics at bat (or throwing). He just looks odd because, well, he's a time traveler from the 1920's and that's how they played baseball back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 http://www.sbnation.com/2013/5/9/4314164/scouting-reports-hunter-pence-derek-jeter There's the rest. They are quite funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The Trout one is epic! and boy did they blow it on Dickey. Just goes to show you that some scouts know as much as we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 It makes me wonder how guys who throw hard are going to fair in a few years. They can get away with some mistakes because of that velocity. When the velocity goes, will they adjust? I hear ya, especially the ones who might only have one other pitch in their arsenal, that rely on the speed of their fastball. I'm sure some will try to develop another pitch to add so they are not one dimensional once they lose their speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The Trout one is epic! and boy did they blow it on Dickey. Just goes to show you that some scouts know as much as we do. To be fair, Dickey sucked until 2010. Learned the knuckler and that was enough. Got himself a nice little paycheck because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 To be fair, Dickey sucked until 2010. Learned the knuckler and that was enough. Got himself a nice little paycheck because of it. Except, this report was done in 1996. Before he was drafted into MLB. He made the majors 5 years later and has now made 280 starts. I suspect that he was pretty decent (as in well above average of all scouted pitchers) before the knuckler, because he actually made the majors (and actually was drafted #18 in the first round of that 1996 draft). The Phillies scouting report on him made it sound like he shouldn't be drafted at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 To be fair, Dickey sucked until 2010. Learned the knuckler and that was enough. Got himself a nice little paycheck because of it. Beat me to it. Dickey was a complete failure until the knuckle came along a few years back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 BTW, the Phillies took Adam Eaton four picks earlier in that 96 draft. They traded Eaton to the Padres before he ever made a MLB start for them . They got Andy Ashby as part of that trade and Ashby went 4-7 his one and only year in Philly. So again, the Phillies scout wrote Dickey off. They drafted another pitcher instead who never pitched a MLB game for them. They traded him (with 3 other players) for Andy Ashby who went 4-7 his one year in Philly. Ouch. of course...Roy Oswalt won more than Dickey and Eaton combined and he was taken in the 23rd round that year. Would love to see what the scouts thought of him then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Is baseball the hardest sport to scout prospects for? Seems much moreso than football or basketball but have no idea how it compares to hockey and soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Is baseball the hardest sport to scout prospects for? Seems much moreso than football or basketball but have no idea how it compares to hockey and soccer. I would think it is and give it the edge slightly over football. I'm sure being able to draft players right out of high school that have not attended college or a junior college adds to the difficulty because I'd imagine you see a kid that's throwing right at 89 or 90 and appears to have that "it factor" if properly developed. There is no guarantee if they have hit their ceiling or not cause they are so young. Football, you have three years of college to go by, but don't have to worry about 18 year olds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I have a nephew that is a big baseball player and is signed with a college, but is hoping to get drafted. I said big, but he's signed with a small D1 school (he has full ride) and is hoping to get drafted so not that big. And they are friends with a scout who has told him (scout does not think his team will draft him), if he gets drafted and really wants to play pro ball, he should skip college. College coaches (and I think this goes for all of the other sports too) are focused primarily on winning. MLB organizations give a lot of credit to scouts, coaches, and trainers that can identify players that are going to be good IF a problem can be fixed and then fix them. If they draft you and based on your current ability they think you can play at some level, but think long term you will be better if they break you down and work on some issue you have and play you against weaker talent while they do it, they will. You see so many baseball players come out of low rounds and be good because there is no real pressure for the people that are coaching them to win. The pressure is to develop players and deliver players to the MLB team. You take a college coach, and rather than fix a problem and maybe have you go backwards in the process, he'll keep running you out there with the problem. The problem becomes more of a habit, harder to fix, and you fall further behind other players, and you are just training camp fodder in other sports. The other point the scout has made is if you go to a 2nd (or 3rd) rate school, you are probably going to get 2nd (or 3rd) rate coaching, and that is going to mean you are going to fall further behind those players already in front of you. In an MLB organization, everybody gets the best coaching that team thinks they can provide. I think age is a part of it, but I wonder how much of it is the focus on winning and not developing in every other sports and "poorer" players in other sports getting poorer coaching in college. The difference is that people that are behind have a better chance of catching and even passing players that are ahead of them in MLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Is baseball the hardest sport to scout prospects for? Seems much moreso than football or basketball but have no idea how it compares to hockey and soccer. Yes, because baseball is much more skill than athleticism. In football and basketball, you'll take a guy with a little skill but a freak amount of speed, even in the first round. A guy like Billy Hamilton or Carl Crawford have that kind of elite athleticism, but needed several years in the minors for the skill to catch up. Both were taken in the second round and their respective teams didn't expect anything out of them for 3 years or so. In the NFL, you expect a 2nd rounder to compete for a starting job right away. Hamilton was a top prospect at receiver. We just saw a similar guy in Cook go in the first round. It's difficult to project what a guy can develop three or four years down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Yu Darvish with a no hitter through 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 No hitter in 9 broken up with 1 out to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 So close!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 He's a helluva player, but Yasiel Puig might be the biggest a-hole in MLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 He's a helluva player, but Yasiel Puig might be the biggest a-hole in MLB. I thought that label was reserved for Bryce Harper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I thought that label was reserved for Bryce Harper? Well Harper isn't connected to drug cartels (and human kidnapping). He's just a .275 hitter with marginal power (I keed, he's going to be a heck of a player if he learns the game). And unlike Puig, Harper doesn't fake injury every time he swings and misses (or grounds out, etc.). He also doesn't appear to stand, admire, and then slowly jog out his home runs when his team is losing 3-0 late in the game like Puig does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Harper isn't a bigger ahole than Puig, he just thinks he knows the strike zone better than any ump that calls his games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 He's a helluva player, but Yasiel Puig might be the biggest a-hole in MLB. Lol. Last game of the Nats series with them, he hit a routine flyball to CF. And proceeded to do his bat flip/arm extension pose. It didn't have the sound, nor did the ball jump off his bat.. Gave us a good laugh. But yea, he is a very good player. He was a tough out that series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 So, Jose Fernandez is headed to the DL with an unknown injury. He had an MRI after his last start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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