Umm About that Cap Penalty

[cphil006]

Well the cap penalty may have been unfair but there were 30 other teams smart enough not to try the same thing. Only Jerry Jones and Shanahan thought they could get away with this which is why they are the two worst front office decision makers in the league. Even Al Davis didn't try to pull that in the uncapped year.

All contracts are and were approved by the NFL... It wasn't until John Mara cried enough that the other owners enforced a penalty.

The NFLPA sued for collusion and would have won, but part of the new collective bargaining deal was dropping the suit. The players wanted to play and get paid so they were forced to drop a suit in which they would have surely won. Had they pursued the lockout would have continued.... It's collusion nonetheless.

[skinsnut1823]

On a side note to this heated topic. I read somewhere on espn and can't find it that 36 mil equates to,approx your six best players. Shanny sucks doesn't suck debate will go on but that's pretty significant don't you think? That's like the cowboys without Romo sits to pee(lol) witten, des, ware, clairbourne, and pick another. Where would they be now? Just something to ponder as I celebrate the end of this season.

[HuhWHATdefense]

Sorry, but both these statements are complete bull ****. First off, who the **** is the NFL that they can circumvent Federal Trade Law?

Their threats should have meant nothing. With the absence of the cap they should have had no power to tell a private business owner how to spend his money, not to mention the fact again for the gazilioneth time they approved the contracts they later penalized us for.

I know some of you want Shanahan gone so bad you are willing to paint him in a negative light absolutely any way you can, but the NFL is completely at fault for this. 100% at fault. If they hadn't been trying to lowball the players none of this would have been necessary. There never would have been an uncapped year, because the CBA would have been done in time. They decided the players wanted too much.

Bingo.. I'm not saying it's right, but that's like blaming a prostitute for getting raped.. "Well, I told you if you're gonna be a prostitute people are going to rape you!" Give me a break!

That's bull****. Regardless , the NFL was completely wrong. There is either a cap or there isn't.. There is no such thing as " the spirit if the cap" in an uncapped year. That makes absolutely NO sense. The only reason the nfl got away with it is because the head of nflpa is in Incompetent and only cAred about himself and getting re elected.

[HuhWHATdefense]

On a side note to this heated topic. I read somewhere on espn and can't find it that 36 mil equates to,approx your six best players. Shanny sucks doesn't suck debate will go on but that's pretty significant don't you think? That's like the cowboys without Romo sits to pee(lol) witten, des, ware, clairbourne, and pick another. Where would they be now? Just something to ponder as I celebrate the end of this season.

When we played the eagles in our second game vs them they showed a chart of all the players the eagles wouldn't have if they didn't have the extra 18mil like the skins were docked. It was McCoy,Foles,Jackson,peters,and two or three of their top defensive players. I love how people act like it's insignificant but then complain about us not having a first rounder. I'm sorry, but that 36 mil is going to hurt you a lot more than not having 1-2 first rounders.

[Commander PK]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000306979/Did-salary-cap-restraints-contribute-to-Shanahan-s-firing

 

it's a shame the man had to be fired before anyone would talk about this.  

[GoSkins0721]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000306979/Did-salary-cap-restraints-contribute-to-Shanahan-s-firing

 

it's a shame the man had to be fired before anyone would talk about this.  

 

I've been saying this all year.

 

RG3 & Kyle's innovative offense were able to cover the defensive holes last year. Kyle's offensive mind made last year a success.

 

A team who, for years, orchestrated and conducted a planned method to cheat was penalized less than the Redskins. And they got to keep their cap space.

 

The shameless act of favoritism by the other league owners & Commissioner Gordon is inexcusable.

[JoeWolf990]

while it was shady that we got punished, the cap penalty was HIS fault. Never forget that.

[TSO]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000306979/Did-salary-cap-restraints-contribute-to-Shanahan-s-firing

 

it's a shame the man had to be fired before anyone would talk about this.  

 

 

A lot of sense was being spoken in that clip, and not just about the cap penalty. Pretty much agreed with everything they said. 

[GoSkins0721]

while it was shady that we got punished, the cap penalty was HIS fault. Never forget that.

 

Agreed. And never forget: Because Shanahan did nothing wrong with the contracts, had the contracts approved by the NFL, and then got a "shady" penalty by the collusion of other 30 NFL owners, it was definately his fault.

[redskins55]

I'm sorry folks but its never a good thing to be looped in anthing involving the cowboys... They were penalized too by salary cap restrictions. That should tell u something if Jerry Jones was involved in doing the same thing! 

[RedSunday]

I know Redskin fans want to blame Mara but it wasn't him ,he wasn't even in the room during the discussion it was the owner of the Eagles Jeff Lurrie ,Mara was just the Spokes person for the owners .

   The NFL runs by committee always has and all the teams agree to it ,this was a penalty from the NFL it's self and the players association .

[Commander PK]

I know Redskin fans want to blame Mara but it wasn't him ,he wasn't even in the room during the discussion it was the owner of the Eagles Jeff Lurrie ,Mara was just the Spokes person for the owners .

   The NFL runs by committee always has and all the teams agree to it ,this was a penalty from the NFL it's self and the players association .

Mara made himself the face of the penalties.  Like you said, Lurie was also found to have been a driving force behind this as well.

 

The fact that the NFL never once considered how people would react to the owner of a divisional foe smugly and arrogantly announcing a massive cap penalty against two division rivals (for breaking no rules, and also exposing themselves as having commited a Federal crime) just shows you how high they think they are above everyone else.  

 

Also, thank god for the stupidity of the player's union huh?  Of the two teams that have blown the most money on players and driven guaranteed money up for years, the Cowboys and Redskins...I expect the Redskins under Dan Snyder to be infinitely more frugal from here out.  Even though our stolen cap money and Dallas' were redistributed evenly to the rest of the league's teams that "played ball," ultimately the players did **** themselves because Washington won't be handing out ridiculous contracts to anyone anymore.  They can also thank Albert "Fal Al" Haynesworth as well.  

 

Very short sighted move by the players union to accept that deal.  They ultimately got the same amount of money, but they very likely forever altered how Washington writes contracts. Good for Washington...bad for them.

[FrFan]

I know Redskin fans want to blame Mara but it wasn't him ,he wasn't even in the room during the discussion it was the owner of the Eagles Jeff Lurrie ,Mara was just the Spokes person for the owners .

   The NFL runs by committee always has and all the teams agree to it ,this was a penalty from the NFL it's self and the players association .

If the NFL wasn't run by goodfellas Lurie and Mara should have stepped aside of the matter since they represent division rivals. Thank you Snyder, weasel, and Jabba.

Wish we would have sued Goodell, I bet Al Davis would have.

[zoony]

When we played the eagles in our second game vs them they showed a chart of all the players the eagles wouldn't have if they didn't have the extra 18mil like the skins were docked. It was McCoy,Foles,Jackson,peters,and two or three of their top defensive players. I love how people act like it's insignificant but then complain about us not having a first rounder. I'm sorry, but that 36 mil is going to hurt you a lot more than not having 1-2 first rounders.

That is only a part of the story... where the penalty hurt us the most was with the B players. Our talent differential was huge... Trent Williams playing with Tyler Polumbus, Pierre Garçon to Nick Williams, and DeAngelo Hall to Baccari Rambo

The redskins have their share of grade A talent, where this team is lacking the most is across the board roster filler. It showed the most on special teams

That's what I hope we do in free agency... Sign a **** ton of $5 million guys and maybe just one big name guy

[@DCGoldPants]

It still blows me away that the NFL and basically Mara pulled this off.

 

I mean, it could have come down to the following questions with yes or no questions.

 

Was there a cap that year?

 

Is there a rule stating what teams can do during that year?

 

Can you show us in writing where that rule is?

 

If two out three of those are "No's".....

 

 

Anyway, if karma is real...Mara is feeling it. He went after two division rivals heavy while letting teams like the Bears skate. But his team seems to be on a poor path as well.

[ZRagone]

The league acts in outright collusion, penalized us for doing something that WAS NOT against the rules (stomp your feet and pout all you want and use little quotation marks...unless you can quote me language from the NFL CBA or rule books it isn't "the rules"), and because of the irrational emotional seething hatred that some have for Shanahan we're now blaming ourselves for clear cut illegal activity. Ridiculous.

It's like saying a rape victim "was asking for it" because she wore something sexy.

Did we make a poor decision by doing a legal and within the rules action that the owners would dislike? Yes, yes we did. But we are not at fault for the owners CHOOSING for themselves to take action, wrongfully, against that. They, not us, took the wrongful action and they, not us, are responsible for that.

[Mad Mike]

lol did you forget Mike turned around and gave AH the 20+ million. 

so are you mad at Lurie for bringing it up, or mad at shanny for trying to do something that he got caught doing in Denver 

exactly...cant believe ppl think this is a coincidence 

 

Yeah because Mike should have broken the law by denying payment that was guaranteed under contract. But he was horrible because he tried to get us out from under the 100 million dollar pile of crap that Vinny saddled us with in a way that technically violated NO rules. Lets not even put that 100 million dollar pile of crap in the OP because that might explain why Shanahan tried to get us out of the cap hell he inherited. Lets just act like he's a criminal.

 

You people make me sick.

 

Aside from the shear stupidity of some of these posts, you seem to wallow in this pile of **** the team is currently in. I think some of you actually enjoy this mess because it gives you something to **** about and act as if you have knowledge that you clearly lack.

 

The fact is that this team is likely to be a ****** up mess for years to come. Chances are high that the next coach will fail spectacularly.

 

And what about our GM? I couldn't give a damn about his name... Bruce Allen has a mixed record at best. Go look at the Bucs draft history from 2005-2008 and let me know how many gems he found. 

 

Oh and about Shanahan's responsibility for that broncos mess?....

 

Broncos Penalized Again for Salary Cap Violations (washingtonpost.com)

 

 

 

Harold Henderson, the chairman of the Management Council and the NFL's executive vice president of labor relations, confirmed in a written statement released by the league that "the individuals responsible for the violations are no longer with the team" and that the Broncos "have been cooperative throughout the investigation."

 

For those of you with reading comprehension issues, that means that the NFL determined that Shanahan was NOT responsible.

[Voice_of_Reason]

lol did you forget Mike turned around and gave AH the 20+ million. 

This is the type of uninformed posts that drive me complete, totally and absolutely crazy.  It comes off as uninformed, ignorant, petty and small.

 

AH had signed a $100M deal, with $42M of that guaranteed.  There is NOTHING that Shanahan, Allen, or even the freaking Supreme Court could have done to reverse the signed contract.  That's what it was.

 

What Mike TRIED to do was ask AH to VOID his contract before the second payment of the guaranteed money, thus allowing him to become a free agent.  And the 'Skins wouldn't have to pay him the second installment of his signing bonus.

 

There is no way in the world that AH's agent was going to let him do that.  He would be giving up $21M that was absolutely coming to him no matter what for a possibility that somebody else would pay him in free agency.

 

If AH had actually accepted the "deal" to void his contract, that would have immediately become the second most stupid contractual move in the history of the NFL, right behind the 'Skins creating the contract to begin with. You don't give up $21M of guaranteed money.  Ever.  That would be stupid. And his agent wouldn't let him do that anyway. 

 

AH was going to get that money regardless. Mike tried to play poker with him and get him to tear up his contract. AH called his bluff, and said, "Pay me what is due on my contract." The 'Skins did.  They had no choice.  Not doing so would be breach of contract.

 

So, Shanahan and Bruce were stuck with this enormous turd. They tried to strong arm AH in quitting. It didn't work.  They had to pay him regardless.

 

There are a million reasons to blast Shanahan, this is not one of them.  

[Conn]

I can't believe people still have the energy to debate anything about this. It's over, folks. Let's move on to the next crisis.

[TSO]

That is only a part of the story... where the penalty hurt us the most was with the B players. Our talent differential was huge... Trent Williams playing with Tyler Polumbus, Pierre Garçon to Nick Williams, and DeAngelo Hall to Baccari Rambo

The redskins have their share of grade A talent, where this team is lacking the most is across the board roster filler. It showed the most on special teams

That's what I hope we do in free agency... Sign a **** ton of $5 million guys and maybe just one big name guy

 

My God, this can NOT be overstated. That is where the cap penalty absolutely crushed us most, and that is what this FO was doing in FA before that. We were targeting up and coming players that were either second string or barely starters on their previous teams (Cofield, Bowen, Wilson, Garcon, Morgan, etc..)

 

There's no doubt in my mind the plan was, before we got docked the cap penalty, to go hard after those type of players and add a bunch of them. I would love to have seen the "three year plan that got ruined" Shanahan was talking about right after we got hit with it. Now, we can definitely say the FO didn't recover in the right way from the mess, but one big criminal aspect of the cap penalty that goes unmentioned is the way the organization was blindsided by it in 2012, WHEN ARGUABLY THE BIGGEST FA POOL IN NFL HISTORY WAS AVAILABLE.

 

The NFL and Mara, by waiting until the eve of the 2012 Free Agency to announce the penalty and how much it would entail, showed nothing but pure evil.

 

Still makes me sick thinking about it. As Allen/Shanahan said, they had an idea that something might come down, but not to the extent that it did and WHEN it did as well. Finding out at midnight that $36 million was coming out of your cap right when FA started... wow.  

[GoSkins0721]

What surprises me to this day, is that a no-name cub reporter never picked this up to write an in-depth article on the entire situation. What the hell am I thinking? There wasn't a big-name reporter to write the details of the situation. It almost seemed that sports reporters were afraid of being banned by the NFL if they investigated and wrote the truth.

 

Graziano wrote a few articles, but never timelined the events or outwardly called for an investigation into the situation. It was never really picked up by any of the big media outlets. Or maybe better, it didn't stay in front of fans for long. The story was "Redskins & Cowboys broke the rules & were penalized". Other NFL cities never heard the sordid details of the unethical actions by the NFL leaders (including Commissioner Gordon). The link in a previous post with Mike Martz is the only time I've heard anyone go into that much detail on TV since a month or so after the original penalty was announced.

 

To be clear, I'm not saying Shanahan should have been retained. Or that with the $36m the Redskins would have won the Super Bowl. But, we'll never really know if he could have been successful while playing with a full deck of cards.

 

With each blown call by a referee, thoughts of favortism and cronyism immediately come to mind. Forever paranoid? Maybe. But I'm also forever much, much less of a fan of the NFL. And, yeah, it's time for me to move on from this. I can't wait for Spring Training to start.

[RedSunday]

I know it useless to argue but Danny boy put us in this situation not Mara , he and Jerry Jones were both in the meeting when the entire league decided this and the league as a group decided to do this and then the Skins and the Cowboys went rogue and went back on their word to the management committee. To have the Giants and Eagles sit out of the meetings would have done nothing ,it wasn't Mara or Lurrie it was Danny boy listening to jerry Jones .The cap isn't our problem our owner is .

[RedSunday]

I just don't feel like fighting any more over this but I'll take the position the Giants are in over our position any day ,they finish 4-9 and give Eli back two pick 6 one in each of their Cowboy games and they are 9-7 and win the division ...even after all the injuries .We on the other hand are at 3- 13 ,have no idea on who are coach will be , have turned the team over to a diva who may or may not be able to play QB .Our D was one of the worst in the league ,and our owner has a history with coach's were after a year or 2 he can't work with them or they can't work with him .

[Hoover-ball]

http://www.iowaappeals.com/the-nfl-goes-back-to-the-eighth-circuit/

 

I know we will never get relief for the unjust penalty we received but I would still like to see the NFL punished for doing so or at the very least that someone is still fighting the good fight.

[Taylor 36]

http://www.iowaappeals.com/the-nfl-goes-back-to-the-eighth-circuit/

 

I know we will never get relief for the unjust penalty we received but I would still like to see the NFL punished for doing so or at the very least that someone is still fighting the good fight.

Very interesting.  If nothing else, this could allow for the NFL's wrong doing and illegal actions and penalties to be brought to the forefront.  It is amazing how many football fans have no idea what the NFL did.