HOF44 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 This is really a procedural battle over wether or not any evidence will be seen in front of a court. If the facts are ever presented to a court the NFL is cooked thanks to Mara's statements and the penalties to the the Skins and cowboys. It is still very much in question of those facts will ever be heard though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 This is really a procedural battle over wether or not any evidence will be seen in front of a court. If the facts are ever presented to a court the NFL is cooked thanks to Mara's statements and the penalties to the the Skins and cowboys. It is still very much in question of those facts will ever be heard though. Not even close to a lawyer, but I agree with you. 1) The Skins aren't plaintiffs in this case, therefore this case cannot result in the Skins being awarded a thing. (In fact, as has been pointed out, the Skins are defendants. If the NFL loses, the Skins have to pay their share of the loss.) 2) What the NFL is desperately trying to avoid, is having to admit, in court and under oath, that the owners conspired to keep employee wages down. This is an anti-trust violation. If they admit that there was a secret cap, then every NFL owner confesses to a federal felony. 3) Which means that, if it gets close to that point, the NFL will instead offer huge piles of money to the union, to make the thing go away. Note that, under none of these situations do the Skins receive any compensation whatsoever, for being screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 3) Which means that, if it gets close to that point, the NFL will instead offer huge piles of money to the union, to make the thing go away. Note that, under none of these situations do the Skins receive any compensation whatsoever, for being screwed. The one thing that could keep the union from accepting those piles of cash is another chance to redo the CBA. It's pretty clear this is not a good CBA for the players. If the NFL is found guilty of collusion the basis for the current agreement would be undermined and could be voided. Again this is low likelyhood of happening, but this is the nightmare the NFL is playing with. I believe it's also why Snyder and Jones backed off the issue and let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I guess another way of looking at it. The NFL is a LOT more scared of DISCOVERY, than they are of losing this suit. All the suit can cost them is money. Discovery can expose things that could put them in jail. (Based on my legal analysis. Which is worth exactly what you paid me for it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazzaro703 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Isnt the evidence obvious though with the penalties to the redskins and cowboys? Thats overwhelming evidence. If its not our court system is a joke. Werent we penalized for violating the spirit of the cap when there wasnt a cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Isnt the evidence obvious though with the penalties to the redskins and cowboys? Thats overwhelming evidence. If its not our court system is a joke. Werent we penalized for violating the spirit of the cap when there wasnt a cap? Which is why I bet if they could do it over, they would never have levied these penalties. They should have just let this go, and chalk it up to the perfect set of circumstances for Washington. The Redskins should have gotten out of the Haynesworth contract scott free because of the lack of a CAP in 2010. The rest of the owners decided they were willing to break the law to make them pay for flushing that contract. Now their egos may cost them dearly. Egos usually do. Mara especially needs to be knocked down a few pegs. The Redskins violated "the spirit" of what the other owners wanted them to do...the rest of the NFL violated the law. Let's see if the NFLPA allows them to buy their way out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsince72 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Well well well. The Skins are in the catbird seat on this. Yes, they are actually defendants in the case but they and Dallas weild a lot of power right now. Undoubtedly they have evidence of collusion or can be called to testify about the "secret agreement". Lord forbid any correspondence like emails were exchanged between the owners. Dan is on the phone right now with Goodell and Mara and it sounds something like this. "I believe I'll have 2 picks in next years draft. $500 mil from the other teams for a new stadium in DC and................the Giants lose draft picks for the next 3 years." I know, it won't happen. But the owners right now are desperate to talk to Jones and Snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 He was thinking I'll lose the election for head of the union if the cap goes down. He made it go up and won the election. Self serving ahole yes, stupid, no way.Word. The people who reelected him are stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs 1991 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Courtesy of Pez and Huly : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 This means nothing ... Yet. I don't think the skins will get anything from this except maybe done righteous indignation. My hope is that during discovery it becomes obvious that Goodell was the mastermind of this, and Dan and Jerry sue his ass for damages. They won't sue the NFL or another owner. The commish they can sue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 This means nothing ... Yet. I don't think the skins will get anything from this except maybe done righteous indignation. My hope is that during discovery it becomes obvious that Goodell was the mastermind of this, and Dan and Jerry sue his ass for damages. They won't sue the NFL or another owner. The commish they can sue. It wasn't Goodell though. It was Mara. Goodell was probably just a witness that did nothing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It wasn't Goodell though. It was Mara. Goodell was probably just a witness that did nothing about it. I've also heard it was Lurie.Fact is we don't KNOW who it was. But Mara is an owner. Goodell is hired help. You can't sue a fellow owner. You can sue the hired help. Even if he just becomes the fall guy, I'm ok with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazzaro703 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I've also heard it was Lurie. Fact is we don't KNOW who it was. But Mara is an owner. Goodell is hired help. You can't sue a fellow owner. You can sue the hired help. Even if he just becomes the fall guy, I'm ok with that. It was Lurie, He whispered it into Maras ear and Mara agreed and wielded the injustice stick of pricks hitting us with the cap penalty. I hope the NFL owners are found guilty, Mara is found responsible and the rest of the owners force him to sell the giants. If we don't get any picks, that's the only outcome that will suffice for me.The compensation I'd like to see... The name issue gone. The NFL owners agree the redskins will be the redskins and they won't ever force us to change the name. 1st round comp picks in the middle of round 1 (pick 16) the next two years. Retribution will have been served. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins0721 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Not even close to a lawyer, but I agree with you. 1) The Skins aren't plaintiffs in this case, therefore this case cannot result in the Skins being awarded a thing. (In fact, as has been pointed out, the Skins are defendants. If the NFL loses, the Skins have to pay their share of the loss.) 2) What the NFL is desperately trying to avoid, is having to admit, in court and under oath, that the owners conspired to keep employee wages down. This is an anti-trust violation. If they admit that there was a secret cap, then every NFL owner confesses to a federal felony. 3) Which means that, if it gets close to that point, the NFL will instead offer huge piles of money to the union, to make the thing go away. Note that, under none of these situations do the Skins receive any compensation whatsoever, for being screwed. Right on, Larry, right on. Forget the potential monetary penalty the NFL would have to pay if they lose (a low probability in my non-lawyer opinion). The NFL has to be concerned the details of the arrangement are made public: collusion, whether agreed to by the NFLPA or not, will not paint a good picture of NFL owners ****face Mara, ****face Lurie & Commissioner Gordon. Maybe instead of worrying about the Redskins name the same Senators & Congressmen should be looking into the details of NFL & NFLPA collision. Aw, ****, who am I kidding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 The problem I have with this case having any chance of prevailing is that the NFLPA signed off on the cap penalty on Washington and Dallas which means they are party to the collusion they are suing over. I don't see how they get round that. I can only assume the NFLPA expect the NFL to settle out of court to avoid evidence of anti trust activities being shown during discovery. What the NFLPA hope to settle for is the question. Even if the NFLPA win or get a settlement of the case I don't see any material benefit coming the way of the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo 3squire Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Yea the NFL has a much, MUCH bigger problem now than this whole Redskins name debate. If stuff doesn't go their way, there could be major media problems for them for years to come, plausible jail time and investigation, etc... S**t could get REAL ugly quick.lol So i'm sure the NFL is doing what they can to make sure they protect their hides. In hopes that the Skins get something out of this for keeping their mouth shut IF Dan and Jerry have to testify. The problem I have with this case having any chance of prevailing is that the NFLPA signed off on the cap penalty on Washington and Dallas which means they are party to the collusion they are suing over. I don't see how they get round that.I can only assume the NFLPA expect the NFL to settle out of court to avoid evidence of anti trust activities being shown during discovery. What the NFLPA hope to settle for is the question.Even if the NFLPA win or get a settlement of the case I don't see any material benefit coming the way of the Redskins. Yea I know it's unlikely the Skins or Cowboys will get anything out of this, I am hopeful tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoBob Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Don't think extra cap room would work. If we got back $36M over two years, for example, we'd have to do a bunch of front loaded or short-term deals, so it would really be for a load-em up run at a ring for 2 years, then back to normal. Not sure if there's precedence for gaining a first round comp pick -- I seem to recall one a few decades ago, but can't remember exactly. In the current era, the highest comp pick is end of 3rd round. I wonder who gets to decide on any repayment/draft pick compensation? Doty? Just give us the Giants first round picks for two years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If we are talking compensation we need to calculate how much Is 36 million is worth in players. Add up the number of draft picks that equal 36 mil and that's where you start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If we are talking compensation we need to calculate how much Is 36 million is worth in players. Add up the number of draft picks that equal 36 mil and that's where you start. I don't think we'll ever get retribution. I think the outcomes are in the following order: 1) nothing happens. NFL somehow quashed the case before it gets to discovery. 2) case gets heard and NFL wins. Nothing happens. 3) Case gets heard, NFLPA wins. Entire NFL has to pay the players a settlement, Skins have to chip in as well, which adds insult to injury. 4) NFLPA wins, and Goodell becomes the fall guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If we are talking compensation we need to calculate how much Is 36 million is worth in players. Add up the number of draft picks that equal 36 mil and that's where you start. Well, they actually showed that during the second Eagles game. Except they only calculated half of what we were penalized with. If you double that, it's almost amazing to think we won any games last year, let alone winning the division title in 2012. This is one thing I agree with Shanahan about: we were so far behind the 8 ball with this cap penalty bs, that we were practically playing on a different pool table. Mara and Lurie deserve to be kicked out of the league, and we deserve their first round picks for the next 5 years. I know it won't happen, but it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Well well well. The Skins are in the catbird seat on this. Yes, they are actually defendants in the case but they and Dallas weild a lot of power right now. Undoubtedly they have evidence of collusion or can be called to testify about the "secret agreement". Lord forbid any correspondence like emails were exchanged between the owners. Dan is on the phone right now with Goodell and Mara and it sounds something like this. "I believe I'll have 2 picks in next years draft. $500 mil from the other teams for a new stadium in DC and................the Giants lose draft picks for the next 3 years." I know, it won't happen. But the owners right now are desperate to talk to Jones and Snyder. This right here lol *nod*. While it's pragmatic for both Snyder and Jerruh to tow the company/NFL line, the rest of the owners and Goodell have to be wondering if their unfair penalty against the Skins and Cowboys might motivate either owner to be more forthcoming and cooperative with the NFLPA in all this than they're comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 This right here lol *nod*. While it's pragmatic for both Snyder and Jerruh to tow the company/NFL line, the rest of the owners and Goodell have to be wondering if their unfair penalty against the Skins and Cowboys might motivate either owner to be more forthcoming and cooperative with the NFLPA in all this than they're comfortable with. Yeah, I guess to a degree Mara and the NFL are counting right now on how much Snyder and Jones are nice guys and would take one for the team versus **** businessmen who might not roll over after getting illegitimately screwed over and mocked by their peers. If I were Snyder I would put the screws to them even if a ruling against the NFL might cost me even more dough... and I'm a nice guy unlike Snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Even this is a win. Making the owners disclose information will piss them off to no end. They don't like to open their books at all. If somehow it is proven it won't be any sort of on the field restitution resulting from this particular case, although the redskins and cowboys may be able to open up another round of inquiry and damages in arbitration or court, but it does paint the picture that Mara and Goodell both played fast and loose. If collusion is found I believe it will be a very stiff penalty, since it is also punative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I hope the NFL has to pay for their obvious collusion in the uncapped year. I don't even care what it means for the Redskins, good or bad. **** the NFL. I wouldn't care for a minute if they lost their anti-trust exemption or had to pay tons of money to the players in damages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If NFL gets caught confessing to collusion in court, wouldn't Snyder, Jones, and others who didn't go along with it and then got fined by the NFL for not going along, be free of collusion charges? How can people who disobeyed collusion be found guilty of collusion? Wouldn't they be exempt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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