The Coaching Thread/Race to Black Monday: 1/6/25

[88Comrade2000]

Jim Harbaugh was successful in his short stint with San Fran.

[Franklin60]

5 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

You knew it was bad when a coach gets fired midweek, 4 days before next game.

 

The Meyer flameout and the struggles Matt Ruhle is having in Carolina; probably puts the kybosh on college coach being hired in the nfl. College coaches just have a poor track record in the nfl. Besides Jimmy Johnson, has there really been a successful college coach?

 

Pete Carroll doesn’t count because he had 2 nfl head coaching jobs before USC.

The Eagles hired Dick Vermeil directly from UCLA. That turned out pretty well.

[Busch1724]

Darrell Bevel may get the Jags job when it's all said and done. 

[Simmsy]

On 12/16/2021 at 9:35 AM, Rdskns2000 said:

You knew it was bad when a coach gets fired midweek, 4 days before next game.

 

The Meyer flameout and the struggles Matt Ruhle is having in Carolina; probably puts the kybosh on college coach being hired in the nfl. College coaches just have a poor track record in the nfl. Besides Jimmy Johnson, has there really been a successful college coach?

 

Pete Carroll doesn’t count because he had 2 nfl head coaching jobs before USC.

As long as stupid people get to make decisions, stupid people will be hired. Look at some of these coaches, absolutely terrible coaches...who coached for decades. They might take a break from them, but they will go back to the well.

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 12/16/2021 at 1:17 AM, Ball Security said:

Meyer kicked the kicker.  What a piece of ****.

Kickers are people too!

 

Though every time I see kickers abused (most often verbally, not physically, I think of the Bill Parcels line when he asked a trainer about the status of his kicker. 

 

The doc said, "He should be able to play."

 

Parcells said (paraphrased) "He doesn't have to play.  He has to kick."

 

BURN by The Tuna.

 

 

On 12/16/2021 at 8:01 AM, TryTheBeal! said:

Urban Meyer makes Steve Spurrier look like Knute Rockne.

At least Spurrier didn't seem to be a really bad person and a bully.  

 

I think he really was an "aw-shucks, hill-billy good ol' ball coach."

 

He is also a HOF college HC.  

 

He just wasn't cut out for the NFL.  He probably figured that out pretty quickly.  I actually give him some credit that he didn't bolt mid-way through 2003.  He at least stuck it out and then quit.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 12/16/2021 at 1:16 PM, DWinzit said:

He should draw some interest this offseason.

Khan looked for a big splash with Meyer.

I'd think he looks for more pro tenured coaches this time around

 

The only problem Leftwhich is going to have is he might get the story  "well, his best years were with Brady, and it's Arian's offense." Which I don't think is fair, but plenty of Pats OCs have gone and failed spectacularly without Brady, so that might rub off a bit.  I understand he was there before, but it's still going to be a thing.

 

I'm honestly not sure which direction they should go. You really do want somebody who can work with Trevor.  

 

-------------------------------

The two teams who currently have interims are the Raiders and the Jags. 

 

The list of "candidates" for other openings, as of right now, would include

- Chicago Bears * Almost a certainty.  And Nagy won't get another HC job right away

- Denver Broncos * I personally think Vic Fanggio is going to do enough to stick around.  He has no QB, and that's really not on him.  But who knows

- New York Giants * There's no chance the Giants bring back Gettleman.  So the question is, do they sweep Judge out with Gettleman?  Or do they let him stay with a new GM, and presumably a new QB.  This is tough, because Judge was hired to "fix" Danny Dimes.  Then hired Jason Garrett, and that was a fire-able offense, if you ask me.

- Minnesota Viking * I think Mike Zimmer stays.  They're going to be close enough to the playoffs, if not in them, that it's going to be hard to make a case he should be fired.  The biggest problem they have is they have had to dismantle most of a very good defensive team to afford their definitely starter but not elite QB.  I'm not sure how much of that's on him, and how much of that is on others.  It will be interesting to see how ownership views this.  

 

 

What is almost for-sure is none of the coaches who are going to be fired this year would immediately enter the head coaching ranks again this year:

Jon Gruden - Never coaching again

Urban Myer - Never coaching in the NFL again

Matt Nagy - Not a HC immediately, or most likely, ever again.  

Vic Fanggio - would IMMEIDATELY be scooped up as a DC, but not a HC

Joe Judge - No chance he gets an immediate HC job.  I'm not sure what he would do.  He was a ST coach for the Patriots.  He probably would go to College.

Mike Zimmer - would IMMEDIATELY be scooped up as a DC, but not a HC.

 

The list of former HCs who could be HCs again is fairly short.  I can think of 3:

- Josh McDaniels: Has he learned from his experience in Denver?  He probably got that job too young.  He has done wonders with Mac Jones. The question is, does he just stick around until Bill retires and take over the Pats (assuming that is something Bob Kraft wants), or does he jump to another job?  I think he will get serious interest this year

 

- Dan Quinn: He rebuilt the worst defense in the NFL to one of the best in 1 year with a whole heck of a lot of the same players, with the addition of one super-star in the making.  It's amazing what going from one of the absolute worst coaches in the history of the NFL in Mike Nolan to Dan Quinn, one of the better DCs, can do.  He had the Falcons in the SB.  I think he is going to get looks this year.  

 

- Jay Gruden?  I mean, I personally don't think he is going to (or should) get a call for a HC.  Or really as an OC either.  But he has tenure, and that counts for something. And maybe people want to put all of his failures on Bruce?    So ... Maybe? 

 

Then you have a bunch of coordinators, like Byron Leftwhich (Bucs), Eric Bieniemy (KC), Nathaniel Hacket (GB OC), Kellen Moore (Dallas), and some defensive guys, who I'm not going to list, because honestly, apart from Quinn, I'm not really sure who they would be.  

 

So it's going to be really interesting the next few weeks.

 

 

[DWinzit]

Hope Khan takes his time and stays with the coaches with NFL experience. He should interview all the guys below

McDaniels, Jim Caldwell and Hackett were the first that came to mind. Personally I would remove McDaniels and look hard at the other two.

 

Bienemy, Moore and Leftwich are all names you have posted that I have heard mentioned as well. They fall into a similar group as the recent hot coaches with Bienemy being the most due to get a HC job.  Any good Washington fan is rooting for Moore 

 

Oh also heard Pederson mentioned.

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

Hope Khan takes his time and stays with the coaches with NFL experience. He should interview all the guys below

McDaniels, Jim Caldwell and Hackett were the first that came to mind. Personally I would remove McDaniels and look hard at the other two.

 

Bienemy, Moore and Leftwich are all names you have posted that I have heard mentioned as well. They fall into a similar group as the recent hot coaches with Bienemy being the most due to get a HC job.  Any good Washington fan is rooting for Moore 

 

Oh also heard Pederson mentioned.

 

 

Moore is the future Dallas coach

[88Comrade2000]

Giants-  They should make a change because they will have a new Gm and probably new QB. If Judge doesn’t do well in 22; he will be fired. Why waste a year on a coach who most likely will be gone in a year?

 

Jags- You get the coach that best develops Trevor.

 

Texans- Is Their coach one and Done? It might be a while before there’s resolution on Watson. Maybe they keep him another year???

 

Panthers - Tepper is impatient. Does he wait until Ruhle can get a QB or does he start over?

 

Bears- Nagy is dead. Need to someone to develop Justin.

 

Vikings- No playoffs, No Mike. He’s been there to long and achieved nothing. They need to clean house and start over with new Gm, coach and qb. Eat Kirk’s salary.

 

Raiders- Their new guy may depend on whether they want to keep Carr.

 

 

Broncos- Considering the team maybe up for sale, maybe they keep Fangio?

 

Seahawks - Might be time for Carroll to retire? Especially , if Russ wants a new coach to stay

Edited December 21, 2021 by Rdskns2000

[TradeTheBeal!]

I have a bold prediction.

 

In 2022, Kirk will be the starting QB for the New York Giants.

[SkinsGuy]

5 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I have a bold prediction.

 

In 2022, Kirk will be the starting QB for the New York Giants.

 

But what about Kurt? 🤔

[Voice_of_Reason]

22 hours ago, DWinzit said:

McDaniels, Jim Caldwell and Hackett were the first that came to mind. Personally I would remove McDaniels and look hard at the other two.

I forgot Caldwell.  I'm not sure he gets a third shot though.  Though, I don't necessarily think he should have been fired from either of his previous jobs.  He was fired from the Colts after a 2-14 season when Peyton was injured and they were Sucking for Luck. Then he was fired after 2 9-7 seasons from Detroit.  (And look what's happened since.)

 

Yeah, he should get an interview.  

 

I was tempted to put Marvin Lewis on the list of veteran coaches, but I think his time has officially passed now.  He was the backup to Ron here, and when that disappeared, I think his window of opportunity closed.

 

I think McDaniels probably deserves another shot.  The question is where, and it has to be the right situation.  If they try and give him Bill's job as it is, he will fail.  If he's asked to just coach and have input on personnel, he might be ok.  

 

 

22 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Bienemy, Moore and Leftwich are all names you have posted that I have heard mentioned as well. They fall into a similar group as the recent hot coaches with Bienemy being the most due to get a HC job.  Any good Washington fan is rooting for Moore 

Based on reputation, I think Bieniemy would be a really good fit in Jax.  He's off of the Andy Reid tree, he's worked with and developed young QBs, and really checks all the boxes.  The question for him will be if he wants to go to Jax.  On one hand, he gets to work with Trevor Lawrence.  On the other hand, he's in Jacksonville.  So ...  Maybe?  He's also caught up in the "Yeah, you're great but how much of it is Reid and Mahomes, and how much of it is you?" debate.  That said, I'd really like to see him get a shot.  I think he's earned it.  

 

I personally think Leftwhich needs a few more years before he's a top candidate, preferably without Brady.  But I'd like to see him get a shot too.  (As an aside, I'm really glad he's made it as a coach.  I always liked him.  But he had the absolute longest windup and slowest delivery of any QB I've ever seen.  And that's not an exaggeration.  If you go back and look at clips, he literally drops the ball down below his waist before bringing it up the back to throw it.  Watching him actually was what got me interested in watching QB mechanics, and how different QBs threw the ball.  When I first saw him, I knew something was different, but I couldn't pinpoint what.  That's what started my obsession with QB mechanics. All of this is irrelevant to the thread, but now I typed it, and you read it, so there.)

 

22 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Oh also heard Pederson mentioned.

I actually thought Pederson did an amazing job with the Eagles during their SB run.  Not many coaches could have survived the injuries they did, including to their MVP-level franchise QB, and just keep trucking.  He made Nick Foles good.  Which nobody else has been able to do.  So there's that.

 

I had forgotten about him also.  His biggest problem is he comes off as an arrogant ass (which he probably is), so we'll see.  

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

13 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I have a bold prediction.

 

In 2022, Kirk will be the starting QB for the New York Giants.

That is bold.  I'm not sure it fits in this thread though.  FWIW, I think he wants to stay in the midwest with his peeps.  Though he's still under contract.  

 

You know where a really good fit for him would be?  Pittsburgh.  Ben is done. They need a QB, and they could have a great team.  They don't need an elite QB to make AFC Championship games.  And it's AFC.  The question would be whether Tomlin would put up with him or pay him what he wants.  (Probably not on both counts.)

 

"Claypool plays wideout and I’ll let him do that,” Tomlin said. “I’ll formulate the practice approach, and I think that division of labor is appropriate.”

 

Mike puts up with no bull ****.

[TradeTheBeal!]

15 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

But what about Kurt? 🤔

 

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That is bold.  I'm not sure it fits in this thread though.  FWIW, I think he wants to stay in the midwest with his peeps.  Though he's still under contract.  

 

You know where a really good fit for him would be?  Pittsburgh.  Ben is done. They need a QB, and they could have a great team.  They don't need an elite QB to make AFC Championship games.  And it's AFC.  The question would be whether Tomlin would put up with him or pay him what he wants.  (Probably not on both counts.)

 

"Claypool plays wideout and I’ll let him do that,” Tomlin said. “I’ll formulate the practice approach, and I think that division of labor is appropriate.”

 

Mike puts up with no bull ****.

Whoops!  Meant to put this in the Kirk thread.  I’m gonna leave it tho, cause it could dovetail into the Giants next coach/GM  trying to make a splash in 2022.

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Whoops!  Meant to put this in the Kirk thread.  I’m gonna leave it tho, cause it could dovetail into the Giants next coach/GM  trying to make a splash in 2022.

You should put it in the Kurt thread also.  

[Warhead36]

Matt Nagy kinda got a raw deal. The Bears did make the playoffs under his tenure 2 out of the 3 previous years. They trade up to draft a QB in the 1st who is clearly raw AF and Nagy knew that and sat him on the bench to start him(which was absolutely the correct call after watching Fields play so far)but now he's forced to play him, the kid stinks, they're losing games, and he's gonna get canned. I'm not saying he's some brilliant coach, but the situation was entirely effed from the start. The lesson is: never draft a QB when your coach is on the hot seat.

[Franklin60]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I actually thought Pederson did an amazing job with the Eagles during their SB run.  Not many coaches could have survived the injuries they did, including to their MVP-level franchise QB, and just keep trucking.  He made Nick Foles good.  Which nobody else has been able to do.  So there's that.

 

I had forgotten about him also.  His biggest problem is he comes off as an arrogant ass (which he probably is), so we'll see.  

 

Something that's amazing is that every Eagles head coach from the mid '70s on, with the exception of one interim coach who filled in for the season finale in '85, has gotten another head coaching gig...except for Pederson, the only Eagles coach to ever lead them to a Super Bowl victory. Crappy coaches like Mike McCormack (Seattle), Marion Campbell (Atlanta), Rich Kotite (Jets), and Ray Rhodes (Green Bay) got another chance. Ditto for Chip Kelly (San Francisco). Even Pat Shurmur, who was an interim coach for a week when Kelly was fired, was hired by the Giants. And of course the two great Eagles head coaches of the past fifty years -- Vermeil and Reid -- not only were hired elsewhere but won Super Bowls for other teams.

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, Franklin60 said:

Something that's amazing is that every Eagles head coach from the mid '70s on, with the exception of one interim coach who filled in for the season finale in '85, has gotten another head coaching gig...except for Pederson, the only Eagles coach to ever lead them to a Super Bowl victory. Crappy coaches like Mike McCormack (Seattle), Marion Campbell (Atlanta), Rich Kotite (Jets), and Ray Rhodes (Green Bay) got another chance. Ditto for Chip Kelly (San Francisco). Even Pat Shurmur, who was an interim coach for a week when Kelly was fired, was hired by the Giants. And of course the two great Eagles head coaches of the past fifty years -- Vermeil and Reid -- not only were hired elsewhere but won Super Bowls for other teams.

Vermeil got lucky Kurt Warner was hall of famer.

 

Remember his 1st 2 years in St Louis were horrible. Then he loses Trent Green in preseason but then goes on that magical run all the way to a Superbowl title.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Franklin60 said:

Something that's amazing is that every Eagles head coach from the mid '70s on, with the exception of one interim coach who filled in for the season finale in '85, has gotten another head coaching gig...except for Pederson, the only Eagles coach to ever lead them to a Super Bowl victory. Crappy coaches like Mike McCormack (Seattle), Marion Campbell (Atlanta), Rich Kotite (Jets), and Ray Rhodes (Green Bay) got another chance. Ditto for Chip Kelly (San Francisco). Even Pat Shurmur, who was an interim coach for a week when Kelly was fired, was hired by the Giants. And of course the two great Eagles head coaches of the past fifty years -- Vermeil and Reid -- not only were hired elsewhere but won Super Bowls for other teams.

That is fascinating, but Pederson has only been out for a year, so there's still plenty of time.

 

1 minute ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Vermeil got lucky Kurt Warner was hall of famer.

 

Remember his 1st 2 years in St Louis were horrible. Then he loses Trent Green in preseason but then goes on that magical run all the way to a Superbowl title.

Well, they did have Trent Green before he tore up his leg, and Green looked REALLY good when he did come in and play when he recovered, and then went on to have a really good career in KC.

 

I think what Vermeil got lucky with was having the most explosive weapons of the last 30 years and a mad-scientist OC who knew how to use them.  

 

And that whole offensive system ran through Marshall Faulk.  Warner was a great trigger-man, but the way Martz used Faulk was 20 years before it's time. 

 

But it ALL started with Faulk.  And not Faulk as a runner, just Faulk as a player.  They'd have him run inside, outside, go into the slot, line up out-wide, and move either Bruce or Hold into the slot...  you literally never knew who was going to beat you where or when.  

[DWinzit]

8 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think McDaniels probably deserves another shot.  The question is where, and it has to be the right situation.  If they try and give him Bill's job as it is, he will fail.  If he's asked to just coach and have input on personnel, he might be ok.  

 

Based on reputation, I think Bieniemy would be a really good fit in Jax.  He's off of the Andy Reid tree, he's worked with and developed young QBs, and really checks all the boxes. 

 

I personally think Leftwhich needs a few more years before he's a top candidate, preferably without Brady.  But I'd like to see him get a shot too.  (As an aside, I'm really glad he's made it as a coach.  I always liked him.  But he had the absolute longest windup and slowest delivery of any QB I've ever seen.  And that's not an exaggeration.  

McDaniels does deserve an opportunity except he has awful in Denver and then pulled that highjinx to Indy, I'd stay away from him.

I'd like to see Bienemy get a shot

Oh yes, Leftwich had the wind up of wind ups lol. I am with you that it seems like he'd be good in a couple years.

6 hours ago, Franklin60 said:

Crappy coaches like Rich Kotite (Jets), 

I am hoping the Giants look hard and this gem!

[Franklin60]

I also forgot to mention that Buddy Ryan also got another head coaching gig (Arizona), though it wasn't immediate. And he wasn't successful either.

[88Comrade2000]

7 hours ago, Franklin60 said:

I also forgot to mention that Buddy Ryan also got another head coaching gig (Arizona), though it wasn't immediate. And he wasn't successful either.

Loved how we Skins got him fired. Our revenge for the body bag game.

[Franklin60]

8 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Loved how we Skins got him fired. Our revenge for the body bag game.

As an Eagles fan, that was probably the most depressing loss I ever experienced. Because driving home from that game afterwards, I knew he was going to get fired and that the team would go into a downward spiral. It was clear as day. And I was proven right. The funny thing about Ryan is that Eagles fans nowadays seem to revere him in hindsight, yet at the time you couldn't find an Eagles fan who didn't want him fired. But our fans are mostly stupid anyway, so what can you do?

[88Comrade2000]

If you have an opening or have told your coach they will be fired; Owners/Gm can now interview assistants virtually starting Monday: 12/27.

 

Will anyone get fired Sunday or Monday.

[BleedBNG]

Browns will move from the basement to 2nd place over the Ravens with a win Monday night.