One Fans Look to the Future:Robert Griffin

[darrelgreenie]

Not thrilled about a (potential/previous) tendency to run on first out of the latter look though.

You mean 2-3 TEs or spread?

 Why not?

[isle-hawg]

Nice OP (and avatar) DG!  It is well written and gets me a even more excited for the upcoming season with the comparison between RG3 and Dalton coming out of college and the fact this was written long before Jay became our coach.  I have to believe RG3 has far better skillsets to work with than Andy.  My biggest concern about RG3 is he often stares down this intended receiver, hopefully Jay can break him of that habit.  Of course it will help if the OL gives him enough time to go through his progressions prior to getting sacked. 

[darrelgreenie]

Young is a pretty talented FB, I'm thinking Gruden will find a way to utilize him. I'd take him over Paul and put him about the same level as Paulsen. Paulsen's better on the line, DY better in the backfield. Logan has a better catch radius, but Young seems a bit better after the catch with more wiggle to him (as well as some running ability). It'll be interesting. I think he's safe unless they add a quality TE in the draft.

Looks like Young is safe if the local beat guys are right.....

@Rich_TandlerCSN @RedskinsTalk Do you think we keep Darrell Young at full back? Jay Gruden doesn't exactly have a history of keeping them.

— Keon R. (@sportscloud) July 15, 2014

I was recently told by a source that Young’s job is safe. As I’ve mentioned numerous times, he’s darn good at what he does. And what he does is open holes for Alfred Morris and chip in on special teams, where he made four solo tackles and two assisted tackles last season. I’m sure you also noticed that the Redskins signed a free agent fullback Stephen Campbell this week. I don’t suspect Campbell is competition for Young but rather someone who can reduce some of the training camp/preseason wear-and-tear on D.Y., who has a history of hamstring problems.--TEB

Nice OP (and avatar) DG!  It is well written and gets me a even more excited for the upcoming season with the comparison between RG3 and Dalton coming out of college and the fact this was written long before Jay became our coach.  I have to believe RG3 has far better skillsets to work with than Andy.  My biggest concern about RG3 is he often stares down this intended receiver, hopefully Jay can break him of that habit.  Of course it will help if the OL gives him enough time to go through his progressions prior to getting sacked.

Thanks.

Griff certainly needs to improve in many areas to max out his huge potential.

But, I actually think Griff is already better going through his progressions then many think, I think he's further along then Dalton for example.

[darrelgreenie]

“Our running game has stayed pretty true to what it is and our passing game, we’ve had to learn some new things,” Griffin said. “Even if it might be the same concept, like I said, it might be called differently. I think everybody is doing a great job being on top of that, being in the right place.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins-players-say-offense-under-jay-gruden-will-resemble-mike-shanahans/2014/07/19/4b4b2120-06af-11e4-8a6a-19355c7e870a_story.html

[skinny21]

You mean 2-3 TEs or spread?

Why not?

Was referring to 2te/2wr set, but really any tendency is a potential issue. On the flip side, I don't want a coach focusing too much on avoiding tendencies (to the detriment of other areas).

Re. Young - figured Gruden would keep him. His ST play, versatility (good blocker, decent pass catcher/runner) and now the fact they brought in another FB are all signs that he should be safe. I'll be curious to see how he's used though, and how often.

[HTTRDynasty]

But, I actually think Griff is already better going through his progressions then many think, I think he's further along then Dalton for example.

 

I just re-watched the first Giants game from last year.  Chris Collinsworth noted multiple times how well RGIII was going through his progressions that game; there were many plays when he went from his first, to his second, to his third or check-down receiver during those up-tempo drives we were running in the first half.  A large part of the reason he was able to do it so often in this particular game was that the Giants were getting very little pressure on him during the first half; it wasn't until the second half that Tuck began abusing Polumbus and Chester.  This just goes to show, if RGIII has the time to sit back in the pocket like Foles or Brady, he has no problem going through his progressions and throwing it to an open receiver.  It's when he's forced to get rid of it quickly (most often due to interior pressure) that he tries to force it to his first read or take off and run.  Sometimes he did it when there was no pressure at all due to the internal clock in his head probably saying that pressure was bound to get there quickly going off past experiences. 

 

If this O-line can hold up better this year for longer periods when we have DeSean running a deep route or any play that takes more than 2.5 seconds to develop, we will see the "RGIII can't read defenses or get past his first read" talk be put to rest.

[mistertim]

It still cracks me up how many people say Griff had a "terrible" year in 2013, even though he was statistically middle of the pack as far as NFL QBs. Was he up to 2012 form? Nope. Was he awful? Nope. 

[Paul Cumberland]

FWIW..  From ESPN Insider..  Jaws QB Rankings...

Link to full article: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11239974/peyton-manning-tops-ron-jaworski-initial-2014-qb-big-board-nfl
 

21. Robert Griffin III, Washington Redskins
Previously: 21

Everyone was excited after RG III's first season, but people tend to get excited about the wrong things with young quarterbacks. He made his biggest impact with bootlegs, play-action and his athletic ability. But he didn't have that running ability last season coming back from his ACL tear, and teams blitzed him mercilessly -- almost twice as often last season as his rookie year. RG III simply couldn't move outside the pocket and didn't do a good-enough job of adjusting pre-snap. At the end of the day, he should be improved under Jay Gruden, who will simplify the playbook for him. Griffin has the tools; the question is whether he can put it all together again this season.


---------- And for comparative purposes::

 

5. Andrew Luck, Indianapolis Colts
Previously: 7

Luck cracks the top five for the first time on my Big Board, and I expect him to keep rising. One of the supposed questions for him was his arm strength, but let me tell you: I have zero concerns with his arm strength. Luck has a great touch and throws the ball only as hard as he needs to. With only 35 starts in the NFL, he's already an elite quarterback and a refined progression reader. At 6-foot-4, 235 pounds, he's big enough to run people over and fast enough to extend plays and get to the edge. He showed off all those attributes and his leadership in that improbable 45-44 wild-card comeback win against the Chiefs. The sky is the limit for this kid.

 

9. Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks
Previously: 10

Wilson may not wow most observers with exceptional arm talent, but he is careful with where he distributes the football and simply knows how to win football games. The Seahawks do a great job of managing his game with designed movement, read-option and half-field reads off play-action. Wilson is probably the best in the league off structured improvisation. One thing I see on film is that he does sometimes struggle to see people, as is the case with shorter quarterbacks. He has improved on this but needs to get better at manipulating the pocket and seeing those throwing lanes.
 

11. Eli Manning, New York Giants
Previously: 12

There's no way to sugarcoat it: Eli had an awful year in 2013. Throwing 15 interceptions in his first six games and 27 overall is simply unacceptable for a quarterback of his experience level and talent. I think that new OC Ben McAdoo will install a West Coast offense that gets the ball out of Manning's hands quicker and to his receivers in space. Based on last season, Manning should be in the bottom third of these ranks, but his career accomplishments earn him this spot. I'm expecting a big rebound season in 2014.

 

12. Tony romoSUCKS, Dallas Cowboys
Previously: 8

romoSUCKS was in a tough situation last year. Dallas' defense was terrible (last in yards per game allowed), and most of the season he was playing from behind. You could argue that 2013 was his best season based on what he had around him on both sides on the ball. romoSUCKS has a tremendous skill set and a good arm, and he is a natural leader. He moves around the pocket and extends plays as well as any quarterback I've ever evaluated. But he still needs to eliminate the critical crunch-time mistakes that have plagued his career. He won't move up this list unless the Cowboys defense and running game (24th in YPG) improve in 2014.

 

13. Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco 49ers
Previously: 17

Kaepernick has a Howitzer for an arm and is a dynamic dual-threat quarterback. It's clear the trust that Jim Harbaugh has in him by how the offense is designed. We all know about the velocity on Kaepernick's throws, his ability to run the devastating read-option and his good accuracy, but now he must improve the little things. Occasionally a muddied pocket will bother him, and he needs to be better reading his progressions at times instead of looking to run when his first option isn't there. I think he'll take the next step this year.

 

14. Cam Newton, Carolina Panthers
Previously: 14

Like Kaepernick, Newton has a rocket for an arm, can drive the ball to any part of the field and is dangerous as a runner (5.3 YPC in 2013). Newton is big (6-5, 245) and strong, and he can hurt teams with unscripted plays. I was most impressed with his win last year against New Orleans in Week 16. He took the team on a five-play, 65-yard touchdown drive to win the game by delivering from inside the pocket. That drive showed me his maturity and that he now understands how to play the game at the NFL level. Newton still needs to improve his ability to read progressions, but he took a big step forward in 2013.

 

15. Nick Foles, Philadelphia Eagles
Previously: 18

People may be surprised that I have Foles this high, but he had an unbelievable 2013 season and deserves this spot. He dropped back over 400 times last season and threw only two interceptions. In the red zone, he threw 16 TDs with zero picks. Foles reads defenses well, knowing both where his receivers are going and where defenders are relative to those receivers. Chip Kelly's system makes the reads easier, but Foles did a terrific job running the Eagles' up-tempo offense and excelled against the blitz. His QB rating was 130 when there were five or more rushers.

[darrelgreenie]

Was referring to 2te/2wr set, but really any tendency is a potential issue. On the flip side, I don't want a coach focusing too much on avoiding tendencies (to the detriment of other areas).

Re. Young - figured Gruden would keep him. His ST play, versatility (good blocker, decent pass catcher/runner) and now the fact they brought in another FB are all signs that he should be safe. I'll be curious to see how he's used though, and how often.

I don't think general tendencies are negatives. Specific tendencies i.e. down to specific formations, plays based on down and distance can be negatives. (kinda like when we ran 2-man route w/ deep post+go route combo with max protection from pistol read-option play-action after establishing the pistol-read option inside/outside zone...but i digress)

 

 But Grudes tendency to run on 1st down usually from 2-3 TE sets doesn't really divulge a lot of 'actionable' intelligence for a defense.

 

RE: Young

I few posts back is a quote from Griffin which reaffirms that the running game will be largley unchanged and the reports that Young is a lock to return backs that up. I don't think his DY's role will change that much if they're keeping the run game intact.

[TheGreek1973]

There are two big assumptions the so called experts are making this year which honestly I don't understand.  It must be my homeristic side.

 

One:  Nick Foles is going to be even better this year.  Well no question, he will have an extra year under this offense which should make him more comfortable, but honestly how do they replace a 1300 yard receiver in DJ?  Maclin is coming of an ACL injury, do they really think he will just be as good?  You can't replace that type of production with a rookie and a guy coming back from injury, unless I guess you are the guru Chip Kelly.

 

Two: RGIII is not going to be that much better:  Really?  Last year his numbers were actually ok, with essentially one receiver in Garcon and a TE that was hurt half the year.  Oh yea he was coming from an injury that didn't allow him to fully practice until 3 weeks before the season started.  So these experts are expecting an little if any improvement from RGIII while he has now a major down the field threat in DJ, a major possession receiver in Garcon, a good slot receiver and a TE that showed great promise when healthy last year.  Oh yea he will also have a full off-season, mini camp, camp and preseason, while being much healthier than last year.

[Taylor703]

Nice highlight reel. But where are all of the "lowlight" plays? Because there were plenty of them.  lol. I'm playing the wait and see approach with Griffin, the new coach and so on.

Why be positive when you can be negative...I like it.

[pjfootballer]

So Robert is so dumb, that Jay has to "simplify" the offense? What a crock. I suggest sports bloggers (I can't even call these hacks writers anymore) tie a garden hose around their knee and try to do simple day to day tasks. Obvious is so obvious that Griffin wasn't himself because of the brace, not because he's too stupid to know the play book. Good god what has happened to rational thinking?

[TheGreek1973]

So Robert is so dumb, that Jay has to "simplify" the offense? What a crock. I suggest sports bloggers (I can't even call these hacks writers anymore) tie a garden hose around their knee and try to do simple day to day tasks. Obvious is so obvious that Griffin wasn't himself because of the brace, not because he's too stupid to know the play book. Good god what has happened to rational thinking?

its worse than that.  I mean you read the article that ESPN has right now on Foles.  All praise for him and Kelly not a single mention that his biggest weapon is no longer with the team.  Not a single world from them or Eagles fans in general for that matter, can you imagine if we didn't have DJ and Garcon was cut?  You think these so called sport writers wouldn't crucify Gruden for cutting his most productive receiver, plus be pessimistic about RGIII's production?

[darrelgreenie]

I just re-watched the first Giants game from last year.  Chris Collinsworth noted multiple times how well RGIII was going through his progressions that game; there were many plays when he went from his first, to his second, to his third or check-down receiver during those up-tempo drives we were running in the first half.  A large part of the reason he was able to do it so often in this particular game was that the Giants were getting very little pressure on him during the first half; it wasn't until the second half that Tuck began abusing Polumbus and Chester.  This just goes to show, if RGIII has the time to sit back in the pocket like Foles or Brady, he has no problem going through his progressions and throwing it to an open receiver.  It's when he's forced to get rid of it quickly (most often due to interior pressure) that he tries to force it to his first read or take off and run.  Sometimes he did it when there was no pressure at all due to the internal clock in his head probably saying that pressure was bound to get there quickly going off past experiences. 

 

If this O-line can hold up better this year for longer periods when we have DeSean running a deep route or any play that takes more than 2.5 seconds to develop, we will see the "RGIII can't read defenses or get past his first read" talk be put to rest.

Good post. The Giants game is good example of Griff going through his progressions.

That game imho is a microcosm of the playcalling/gameplan issues that were present the whole season.

Early in the Giants game there was up-tempo/hurry up, with lots of spread formations and quick drop back passing. And the offense was really clicking. Do you remember what happened in the 2nd half?....We broke out the triple option.

I think pass protection was an issue last year but not as big an issue as most think. I think the biggest problem last year was the defenses caught up with our play-action based passing game and Kyle was unable to adjust.

 

Brightside:  Griffin was forced to learn to get to his second read because the primary read didn't always work out.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

So Robert is so dumb, that Jay has to "simplify" the offense? What a crock. I suggest sports bloggers (I can't even call these hacks writers anymore) tie a garden hose around their knee and try to do simple day to day tasks. Obvious is so obvious that Griffin wasn't himself because of the brace, not because he's too stupid to know the play book. Good god what has happened to rational thinking?

 

True story Robert has to get his wife to tie his cleats before every practice and game because he was too stupid to remember the song about the bunny ears. He was also too dumb to consider velcro.  

[Ghost of]

So Robert is so dumb, that Jay has to "simplify" the offense? What a crock. I suggest sports bloggers (I can't even call these hacks writers anymore) tie a garden hose around their knee and try to do simple day to day tasks. Obvious is so obvious that Griffin wasn't himself because of the brace, not because he's too stupid to know the play book. Good god what has happened to rational thinking?

Funny how sports writers are such predictable bleeding hearts on any issue of the day, but still engage in this veiled racism. Another poster said after talking with a guy in Baylor that Gruden is throwing the playbook at him and letting him work through it and trusting him.  As was pointed out, the Shanahan's "simplified" things when maybe they didn't have to.

[Voice_of_Reason]

True story Robert has to get his wife to tie his cleats before every practice and game because he was too stupid to remember the song about the bunny ears. He was also too dumb to consider velcro.

Thank God he's got a loving, helpful, and extremely attractive wife to bail him out. I'm sure she even uses the double knot to avoid the travesty of a shoelace coming untied.

[skinny21]

Good post. The Giants game is good example of Griff going through his progressions.

That game imho is a microcosm of the playcalling/gameplan issues that were present the whole season.

Early in the Giants game there was up-tempo/hurry up, with lots of spread formations and quick drop back passing. And the offense was really clicking. Do you remember what happened in the 2nd half?....We broke out the triple option.

I think pass protection was an issue last year but not as big an issue as most think. I think the biggest problem last year was the defenses caught up with our play-action based passing game and Kyle was unable to adjust.

Brightside: Griffin was forced to learn to get to his second read because the primary read didn't always work out.

Also a good post. It's funny, but my initial thought was "Sure, Griffin can go through progressions, but he still needs work (maybe a significant amount) in this area". Then I remembered that that is the whole point - he can go through his progressions. A quicker attack, less reliant on the PA digs and such run so often will help Griffin and the oline (which in turn helps Griffin). He still has plenty of room to grow, but I'm looking forward to an offense that isn't stagnant as last year's was.

[darrelgreenie]

Dalton's 2013 Tendencies:
 

• Threw 15.7% of passes at least 20 yards in the air; seventh-highest in the league.

• Threw 55.2% of passes outside the numbers; fourth-highest in the league.

• Faced pressure only 25.2% of the time; second-lowest in the league.

• 39.8% of drop-backs lasted two seconds or less; second-highest in the league.
 
• 30.5% of drop-backs were in 4-to-6-yard range; fourth-highest in the league.
 
• Only 13.0% of drop-backs went at least nine yards; seventh-lowest in the league.
 
• Only 15.0% of attempts went to running backs; seventh-lowest in the league.
 
• Threw screens on 12.4% of drop-backs (seventh-highest) including 9.3% to wide receivers (seventh-highest).
 
• Threw crossing routes 5.1% of the time (third-lowest) and in routes 2.7% of the time (second-lowest).

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Great stuff DG. I'm really excited to see how Griffin compares in his decisiveness and getting the ball out quickly.

I'm sure it's a point of emphasis for Gruden though I would also be interested to see if Dalton was naturally a quick trigger even during college or if this was something specifically that Gruden worked with him on.

[darrelgreenie]

I haven't heard many/any comment on the use of the Pistol during the 1st preseason game.

I'm very glad they are keeping the Pistol with or without read-option.

The ability to put the QB in shotgun while maintaining the ability to run downhill is huge imho.

 

Keeping the Pistol also tells a lot about Gruden's coaching style. It shows that they really are keeping the base running game (which was obvious watching the game) AND it shows that Gruden is very flexible and open to suggestion/change when it comes to "his" offense because the Bengals didn't use the Pistol formation as often.

[darrelgreenie]

It's a passing league, I am just not sure how much defenses will be buying play action going forward.

Oh, defenses will always buy play-action because teams will always run the ball. IIRC All but 1 of the of 10 rushing teams made the playoffs.

 

If you want perfect mechanics from Robert, I just don't see this OL as built to give him the space to step up / into throws

Yeah the OL isn't stout. This is where playcalling and gameplan and sound QB decision making are going to play a huge role this year to mitigate their deficiencies.

 

As each day passes I am more interested to see what Gruden does. I have faith based on his comments thus far. We have our shiny new toy in DeSean Jackson, but he needs time to get deep. The question remains, how will Gruden manufacture time for RG3?

The obvious answer is play-action but you can still get deep without the OL pass protecting for deep drops. Teams can throw deep on quick and 3-step drops.

Imo the answer for everything in regards to this offense is S P R E A D!!!!!!!

 

Spread to run.

Spread to throw quick.

Spread to make it easier to read the defense.

Spread to give the receivers space to make plays.

[RandyHolt]

The spread + hurry up is going to be money for Robert if Gruden uses it I just know it.

 

You look at Brady, Manning, and I almost feel they need spread the least, but get it the most.

 

I have an unsubstantiated theory, that it is easier to read a defense when they are forced to go into nickel/dime. Or at minimum, it should be easier to make blitz calls, and thus easier to beat a blitz. Any chance I am right? 

[Mr. Sinister]

Can't wait to see #10 do this for real come Sunday

[Ghost of]

Unveiling a new sig line (photo is the same until I find a good one) from Any Given Sunday song with Guru, Common and J. Foxx.