Xbox One Vs Ps4

[Mr. Sinister]

I just need some Mass Effect/Rosckstar news. Gotta be something out there about the next GTA/Red Dead game.

And I thought there was supposed to be a new Walking Dead series from TellTale? Must. Have. News

Instead its all these stupid ass multiplayer shooters I have no interest in buying.

[PokerPacker]

So you're saying they're never going to change?

I sure hope so. The console you're looking for is already made by both Microsoft and Sony, why do we need a third identical console?

[Gamebreaker]

I sure hope so. The console you're looking for is already made by both Microsoft and Sony, why do we need a third identical console?

 

Well having a more advanced console and actually working with third party developers doesn't mean you are making the same console as Microsoft and Sony. There is no point in being so different you prevent your own success. Nintendo can still make their own first party games they want to make, but part of the point of making a video game console is to make a platform where others would want to create on it too. Making a system that only appeals to them is just pointless, IMO. And the main reason why outside of the Wii, all of their consoles have been failures since SNES. 

[PokerPacker]

Well having a more advanced console and actually working with third party developers doesn't mean you are making the same console as Microsoft and Sony. There is no point in being so different you prevent your own success. Nintendo can still make their own first party games they want to make, but part of the point of making a video game console is to make a platform where others would want to create on it too. Making a system that only appeals to them is just pointless, IMO. And the main reason why outside of the Wii, all of their consoles have been failures since SNES.

There is no way to guarantee 3rd party support. The Wii U was supposed to be the console that enticed third parties over, and the third parties seemed to be on board at the time of announcement. EA had a guy on stage to present with Nintendo about how this console was going to mark an unprecedented relationship between the two companies, and we all know how that turned out. In the past, 3rd parties would complain that they couldn't compete with Nintendo's first party hardware, so for the Wii U, Nintendo let the third parties have the spotlight at launch time and then the third parties complained that there weren't enough 1st party games to get people to buy the console. And you'd have third parties putting out second-rate games and use their failures as proof that third parties can't succeed on a Nintendo console.

Ubisoft, for example, used Zombi U as proof that their games wouldn't sell on a Nintendo console, even though it sold quite well for a launch title and was, quite frankly, and underwhelming game. They've since ported it to the PC and other consoles and guess what, it's sold like **** on those platforms. And then there was the Mass Effect 3 being released for the Wii U around the same time that Mass Effect Trilogy was released for the twins and used the failure of that game as proof third parties didn't sell on the Wii U. Well DUH that game's not gonna sell, it was the third of a trilogy where past choices matter when the console had no access to the past games... and at the same time you released a trilogy edition for the other consoles for the SAME PRICE.

And you want to talk about failed consoles, how many years did it take for the power twins to start turning a profit? Nintendo's consoles hadn't had that problem as they were profitable at release (with the exception of the Wii U, but there were some factory problems that caused manufacture costs to rise in the beginning).

As for still being able to make first party games they want to make, well no, they really couldn't; their software and hardware are very integrated with each other and design choices of the console involve the games they want to be able to make. Wii Sports would have been impossible on a traditional console. Nintendo Land would have been impossible on a traditional console. Games such as those show the benefits of being able to create your hardware and software in harmony, and it's how Nintendo puts out more timeless classics on their consoles. If I could choose between playing unique games that are impossible on other consoles, or playing GTA on a Nintendo, I'll choose the unique experience any time. If I really need to play GTA, I can just get another console.

[Gamebreaker]

There is no way to guarantee 3rd party support. The Wii U was supposed to be the console that enticed third parties over, and the third parties seemed to be on board at the time of announcement. EA had a guy on stage to present with Nintendo about how this console was going to mark an unprecedented relationship between the two companies, and we all know how that turned out. In the past, 3rd parties would complain that they couldn't compete with Nintendo's first party hardware, so for the Wii U, Nintendo let the third parties have the spotlight at launch time and then the third parties complained that there weren't enough 1st party games to get people to buy the console. And you'd have third parties putting out second-rate games and use their failures as proof that third parties can't succeed on a Nintendo console.

......

 

Now Packer, that was a very fanboyish response from you. So you're saying it's everyone's fault but Nintendo? People should just accept their creativity and lack of flexibility? There is zero blame to the console manufacturer for software developers having difficulty with their hardware? Here's the other side of that story: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/01/11/an-inside-explanation-of-why-third-parties-have-left-the-wii-u/#7cac1f0f57b1

 

"The developer says that shortly after the reveal of the Wii U to him and his cohorts, the immediate, universal thought was “I like the new controller, but the CPU looks a bit underpowered.” 

 

Is it too much to ask to have a standard, current CPU? Having a better CPU isn't hindering their ability to make their own kind of games, it should actually help, and it's giving the developers what they need to make their own kind of games too. 

 

"Perhaps even more interesting is his account of how Nintendo completely dropped the ball with their online service:

 

“At some point in this conversation we were informed that it was no good referencing Live and PSN as nobody in [Nintendo's] development teams used those systems (!) so could we provide more detailed explanations for them?”"

 

Another way to get and KEEP developers is to not half-ass features. If you're introducing an online service because your competition has one, obviously you should want it to be great and at least be on par with your competition. So maybe it would be a good idea to actually see what the hell the competition is doing. There is no excuse for this, it's poor research and development. Sony improved PSN by taking superior features Xbox Live had and used them with the PS4. They'd have never accomplished this by not trying Xbox Live out and finding out why the target demographic enjoyed to so much more than what they were doing. Again, competing in a competitive market isn't solely about doing what you want, you need to create hardware and features that more than your dev teams and a small percentage of gamers want to play. Wii Sports would not be impossible on a traditional console, Microsoft added the Kinect and had a similar game. So did Sony. The Wii wand didn't need to be the only controller provided standard to the consumer. 

 

Every system Microsoft and Sony have created, sans the original Xbox, has turned a profit. Were they making money on each system sold on the day of launch? No. But 2-3 years into a productive life cycle, with a growing install base, they were making a killing once the production cost dropped. 

 

 

"Having worked on other hardware consoles, I suppose that we were rather spoilt by having mature toolchains that integrated nicely with our development environment. Wii U on the other hand seemed to be trying at every turn to make it difficult to compile and run any code." -- http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story

 

"As a team, we lost days of time to the compile/link/debug overheads and this negatively impacted the amount of features that we could put into our game before the release date."

 

When you have second-rate toolkits you get second-rate games. Frankly, the only games that are "impossible" to be made anywhere, are all the games Nintendo is missing out on, not their games on other consoles. But you enjoy Nintendo's offerings, and that's great. But let's be honest here in why their consoles continue to fail. It's the common denominator, it's not everyone else. 

[PokerPacker]

Is it too much to ask to have a standard, current CPU? Having a better CPU isn't hindering their ability to make their own kind of games, it should actually help, and it's giving the developers what they need to make their own kind of games too.

You speak of CPU limitations, but the fact of the matter is that games were being made for the 360 and PS3 while snubbing the more powerful Wii U. Also, what is this "standard CPU"? The PS2 used a MIPS processor, Sony then switched to a convoluted implementation of PPC in their Cell processor for the PS3, and then went to x86 for the PS4. The Xbox was x86, the 360 went to PPC, and then the XBone is back to x86. The Gamecube, Wii, and Wii U each used a PPC CPU giving continuity to their development environment.

 

Another way to get and KEEP developers is to not half-ass features. If you're introducing an online service because your competition has one, obviously you should want it to be great and at least be on par with your competition. So maybe it would be a good idea to actually see what the hell the competition is doing. There is no excuse for this, it's poor research and development. Sony improved PSN by taking superior features Xbox Live had and used them with the PS4.

And now you have to pay to go online with the PS4. Nintendo's online infrastructure is still free. Also, in case you are unaware, they had a pretty big announcement--actually around this time last year--that they were teaming up with DeNA to rework their online infrustructure.

 

Again, competing in a competitive market isn't solely about doing what you want, you need to create hardware and features that more than your dev teams and a small percentage of gamers want to play. Wii Sports would not be impossible on a traditional console, Microsoft added the Kinect and had a similar game. So did Sony. The Wii wand didn't need to be the only controller provided standard to the consumer.

Yes, it would have been impossible to succeed on another console. Notice how the PS Move and Kinect never took off on their respective consoles? They weren't integrated into the design of the console and instead were after-thoughts that people had the option of buying later. Which meant that there was no guarantee to developers that people would have said peripherals, so you didn't have much support for said peripherals and so consumers did not buy said peripherals.

 

Every system Microsoft and Sony have created, sans the original Xbox, has turned a profit. Were they making money on each system sold on the day of launch? No. But 2-3 years into a productive life cycle, with a growing install base, they were making a killing once the production cost dropped.

Good for them? (well, good for Sony; you basically just said 1/3 Microsoft consoles lost money.) What happens when there's a third console appeal to the exact same market? Not everybody's going to buy three consoles that all play the same games. That was part of why Nintendo left for blue water; capture a different market than the one being served by the other consoles, and it resulted in the massively successful Wii that printed enough money to allow them to eat losses for decades if they have to.

 

When you have second-rate toolkits you get second-rate games.

Yes, I'm sure second-rate toolkits explains why Mass Effect 3 didn't sell on their system while it was competing with Mass Effect Trilogy on other systems. And why Zombi U flopped even harder when it was ported from the Wii U to other platforms. And why Ubisoft would release Wii U games after a long delay of being on other consoles, but then delay the release of what was supposed to be a Wii U exclusive so that it could have a simultaneous release with the other consoles they decided to port it to.

The developers who seem to be having trouble with the toolkits are the ones that don't seem to care to put in any effort. Nintendo's got no problem putting out spectacular games with their toolkits, and developers that actually try seem to do pretty well, too.

Frankly, the only games that are "impossible" to be made anywhere, are all the games Nintendo is missing out on, not their games on other consoles.

Could you rephrase that? I don't know what you're trying to say here.

 

But you enjoy Nintendo's offerings, and that's great. But let's be honest here in why their consoles continue to fail. It's the common denominator, it's not everyone else.

Nintendo's consoles do not "continue to fail" as they have been making money for Nintendo. The Wii U has been the least successful, and it was the one that was supposed to bring in the third parties.

As for the common denominator, which is it, not powerful enough? N64 and Gamecube were more powerful than the PS1 and PS2 but did not receive the same third party support. The Wii super unprecedentedly successful, but received a lot of shovelware and lazy PS2 ports from developers.

Bottom line is: The last thing I want is for Nintendo to make a console like the Power Twins. The whole point of a console is that you create an experience in a single neat package. What can be made for the XBone or the PS4 that couldn't be made better on a PC? So why would I want to drop $400 on a piece of hardware that doesn't really do anything my PC doesn't do already? I could put that towards a new graphics card.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

And I thought there was supposed to be a new Walking Dead series from TellTale? Must. Have. News

 

Youre not talking about the Michonne series are you? Pretty sure that came out 2/23. 

[Mr. Sinister]

Youre not talking about the Michonne series are you? Pretty sure that came out 2/23.

How the hell did I miss that

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Nintendo needs to quit trying to be so different, imo, and gear towards a similar model design as Microsoft and Sony.  Especially if they are going to charge $349/$299 for the product they put out.  I'll be honest, I want to play Super Mario Maker and a few other games, but I cannot justify spending $299 just for a couple of games.

 

I'm not a hater either, this is the only Nintendo system I've not owned.  I grew up on Nintendo (NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii), then I let them go.  The wii was fun for a bit, but honestly it gets old quickly, imo.  But it was worth the price at $199 and I had some fun with Mario Kart, the other Mario game, bowling, etc. for a while.  

 

The online capabilities suck, regardless if they revamp or not.  Paying $60-$100/year for online (XB1 and PS4) is not that much.  Online gaming is where it's at right now, regardless of those who prefer single player/story over it.  It's what sells.

 

If they would put out a beast system, with good online support, offer all the older games in a store for sale, and have cross platform games (Madden, CoD, etc.) they could compete side by side with Sony or Microsoft.  I'm sure they want to stick to the roots, etc.  But its 2016, not 1996.

 

I'd love for them to release a console with their exclusive titles along with cross platform games, especially if they embraced the online gaming era.  I'd definitely buy one.  No if, ands or buts about it.  Can you imagine GoldenEye remastered and being able to play it old school (story or split screen pvp) and being able to hop online and play it with millions of people?  

 

That would be so boss it's not even funny.   They could have new exclusives for a ton of their games, some going multiplayer online, some with improved game mechanics, etc.  But I'm guessing they won't, which is sad.  

 

I already own both the XB1 and PS4 for multiple reasons (family/friends on both consoles, different exclusives, etc.) and would consider spending $299 on a Wii U if it had been made better.  If it drops to $199, I'll consider it then, but not for nearly the same price as the other consoles.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Just pre-ordered the new Hitman game. Love that series and cant wait for this new game. 

[Mr. Sinister]

I liked Absolution, but found some areas to be tedious as hell. After awhile you just get mentally drained and just start killing everybody. And im a stealth guy.

You can't imagine the shame I felt

[Zazzaro703]

I just need some Mass Effect/Rosckstar news. Gotta be something out there about the next GTA/Red Dead game.

And I thought there was supposed to be a new Walking Dead series from TellTale? Must. Have. News

Instead its all these stupid ass multiplayer shooters I have no interest in buying.

The first part is out on Steam, it's about Michonne.

Oops lights out got there before me. The game is about the graphic novel Michonne and what she was up to when she left the group for a little bit.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

I liked Absolution, but found some areas to be tedious as hell. After awhile you just get mentally drained and just start killing everybody. And im a stealth guy.

You can't imagine the shame I felt

 

haha, i typically just try and kill everyone. 

[Mr. Sinister]

The first part is out on Steam, it's about Michonne.

Oops lights out got there before me. The game is about the graphic novel Michonne and what she was up to when she left the group for a little bit.

Damn. Gonna have to wait until it comes out on consoles

haha, i typically just try and kill everyone.

Seriously. That game was so frustrating. I literally threw my hands up at the Architecture museum. Just massacred all the agents. Then I felt like such a failure

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Damn. Gonna have to wait until it comes out on consoles

It's out on PSN and XBox Live too

[The Mayor of Fed Ex Field]

Whoever said they were getting the HyperX Cloud 2 headset, let me know how it is.  I tried to buy one for $30 on OfferUp, but the lady flaked out.

 

I thought the A40s with MixAmp Pro would be better than my Tritton 720s, but its not.

 

So, I looked to see what Trittons new headset (not the cheap one at Gamestop), and I came across this.

 

http://www.trittonaudio.com/prod/katana.asp

 

True 7.1 by using HDMI, I think thats a first on headsets.

 

They dont come out till April 30th though

[Zazzaro703]

I'm with Poker, I like Nintendos uniqueness and instead of getting the current gen consoles I put that money towards a 980ti. Best decision I've ever made with gaming the 980ti is soooo awesome and worth every dollar.

[PokerPacker]

I'm with Poker, I like Nintendos uniqueness and instead of getting the current gen consoles I put that money towards a 980ti. Best decision I've ever made with gaming the 980ti is soooo awesome and worth every dollar.

Dang, nice card! That thing must run like a champ! Guess you're VR ready, huh?

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

I'm with Poker, I like Nintendos uniqueness and instead of getting the current gen consoles I put that money towards a 980ti. Best decision I've ever made with gaming the 980ti is soooo awesome and worth every dollar.

 

I admire his passion for Nintendo.  But as one that has owned every Nintendo console with exception of Wii U, I personally want them to jump into the big leagues again.  It's all about the exclusives, they can jump into 2016 with all the bells and whistles and still offer their exclusive titles.

 

Instead of trying to legitimately compete with Microsoft and Sony, they tried to be different and market to a different audience.  N64 made cross platform games and had still had the exclusive titles.  They can still do that with the new system they are working on and it would sell more consoles while still delivering the exclusive titles that we all grew up loving.

[The Mayor of Fed Ex Field]

Years ago I was a PS3 guy, but by happenstance I got a free Xbox 360, and havent looked back

 

I like how I can sync everything with my laptop and tablet.  You can put Cortana on Android phones now.

 

I would like to see exactly what Nintendo is making though.  Is that at E3? Confirmed? 

[PokerPacker]

I admire his passion for Nintendo.  But as one that has owned every Nintendo console with exception of Wii U, I personally want them to jump into the big leagues again.  It's all about the exclusives, they can jump into 2016 with all the bells and whistles and still offer their exclusive titles.

 

Instead of trying to legitimately compete with Microsoft and Sony, they tried to be different and market to a different audience.  N64 made cross platform games and had still had the exclusive titles.  They can still do that with the new system they are working on and it would sell more consoles while still delivering the exclusive titles that we all grew up loving.

The N64 is your gold standard here? It didn't even have 300 games in its library. The SNES, by comparison was somewhere in the realm of 800 games, and the Wii U is hovering around that range at this point, too.

To compare against its own generation, the PSX had somewhere around 2,500 games.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

The N64 is your gold standard here? It didn't even have 300 games in its library. The SNES, by comparison was somewhere in the realm of 800 games, and the Wii U is hovering around that range at this point, too.

To compare against its own generation, the PSX had somewhere around 2,500 games.

 

Not by any means.  Was just tossing it out there that it had cross platform games (and yes the wii had some, not sure about wii u, but speaking on games that were on the same level as rival consoles back then, like MK, MKII, Street Fighter, etc.).  So did the SNES.  I'm just saying that they can juice up the specs, go blu-ray, improve online play, get mainstream in cross platform games, etc. and be a legit contender to Sony and Microsoft long term, while still offering exclusive titles that appeal to the masses.

 

It might seem like I hate Nintendo, but I don't.  I've owned every console except the Wii U.  The only reason I don't own a Wii U now is the price of the system.  I'm not going to pay Xbox/PS4 money on a system for a couple of games, with crap online service (free or not), etc.

 

I'm also done with the whole interactive console.  Wii was great, but I got burnt out on it fast.  Why?  I got tired of having to swing controllers, nunchucks, etc. to play a game.  It was great fun, until it got old.  If you never got burnt out on it, that's cool, I'm not slamming you for being supportive by any means.

 

As a kid that grew up on Nintendo, I want more from their current and future consoles.  I expect more from them.  I don't care for a tablet controller, if I wanted a tablet to game on, I'd buy a ****ing tablet.  I just want a console that can compete with Sony and Microsoft and deliver me cross platform games on the same level as the rival systems while also giving me their exclusive titles that you can't play on PC.   If I want to stand up and wave my ****ing arms around or look at a tablet screen, that should be an extra feature.

 

That's why the Wii will be my last Nintendo system purchased, unless one of the following occur:

 

1.  They drop the price of the Wii U to $149-199

2.  They pump up the next console to compete with Sony/Microsoft

 

I want a Wii U, I love my Mario games.  There are a few games on there that look amazing and really cool.  Just not worth $299 to play a few games, imo.

[PokerPacker]

Not by any means.  Was just tossing it out there that it had cross platform games (and yes the wii had some, not sure about wii u, but speaking on games that were on the same level as rival consoles back then, like MK, MKII, Street Fighter, etc.).  So did the SNES.  I'm just saying that they can juice up the specs, go blu-ray, improve online play, get mainstream in cross platform games, etc. and be a legit contender to Sony and Microsoft long term, while still offering exclusive titles that appeal to the masses.

It probably seemed that the N64 got the "multiplats" because, well, there was only one other console it was competing against (lets face it, the Sega Saturn was an after-thought), therefore any game that was a multiplat was, by definition, on the N64. However, as evidenced by the sheer difference in library sizes in the consoles, it's clear the N64 didn't have much of any third party support. This was before the big shift in the video game industry towards the bro-shooters, though, and Nintendo's gaming philosophy was still appreciated by the average gamer, so people look back with fond memories on the N64 and wonder how Nintendo changed so much. But to me, I look back and see how much they haven't changed, but rather how much the industry around them has, and I'm not a fan of a lot of those changes.

It might seem like I hate Nintendo, but I don't.  I've owned every console except the Wii U.  The only reason I don't own a Wii U now is the price of the system.  I'm not going to pay Xbox/PS4 money on a system for a couple of games, with crap online service (free or not), etc.

Don't worry, Taze, you aren't coming off as a hater to me, just someone who holds an opinion that I vehemently disagree with on this matter.

I'm also done with the whole interactive console.  Wii was great, but I got burnt out on it fast.  Why?  I got tired of having to swing controllers, nunchucks, etc. to play a game.  It was great fun, until it got old.  If you never got burnt out on it, that's cool, I'm not slamming you for being supportive by any means.

Not every game has to be a waggle fest. In fact, a number of games on the Wii, I thought, forced in waggle where it didn't work. Twilight Princess, for example. Other games, however, did a good job of using little touches of the motion control to improve immersion. Metroid Prime 3, for example, with the IR aiming and then a few gestures like tossing out the grapple beam and ripping shields away from enemies. There were games like Skyward Sword that really showed off what motion control can do for you. And there were some games that didn't use motion controls at all; an option that, perhaps, should have been utilized more.

As for the Wii U, it does have the option for motion control, but it can do so much more with that second screen. It's brilliant for local multiplayer to give you an asymmetric experience. I know it would have benefited Splinter Cell back in the day as a Sticky Cam interface better than that of the GBA connectivity. It brings a lot of options while allowing for traditional controls so developers are free to just code a regular game and give it off-tv support.

As a kid that grew up on Nintendo, I want more from their current and future consoles.  I expect more from them.  I don't care for a tablet controller, if I wanted a tablet to game on, I'd buy a ****ing tablet.  I just want a console that can compete with Sony and Microsoft and deliver me cross platform games on the same level as the rival systems while also giving me their exclusive titles that you can't play on PC.   If I want to stand up and wave my ****ing arms around or look at a tablet screen, that should be an extra feature.

It can't be an extra feature. The moment you make it an extra feature instead of packaged as part of the console, it loses all developer support because there's no guarantee to developers that the consumers will have the peripheral. Remember when Microsoft split the Kinect 2.0 from the XBone? How much developer support is it getting now? How much developer support did the PS Move get? Look at the PC gaming market; how many games are developed to only work with specialized peripherals? Once you separate them, you've killed it.

That's why the Wii will be my last Nintendo system purchased, unless one of the following occur:

 

1.  They drop the price of the Wii U to $149-199

2.  They pump up the next console to compete with Sony/Microsoft

 

I want a Wii U, I love my Mario games.  There are a few games on there that look amazing and really cool.  Just not worth $299 to play a few games, imo.

For a long time, Nintendo was selling refurbs on their website for $200. Sadly, they seem to have gone out of stock; I read somewhere that they were all bought up in Japan during the holiday season.

[Pick6]

For anyone picking up The Division I recommend checking out a short live-action 30 minute film on Amazon Prime. It is called The Division Agent Origin.

[SkinssRvA]

Any fifa players around?