Budget Fight: Why Don't The Gop De-Fund Medicare / Social Security?

[@DCGoldPants]

Jumbo, is it doable to just combine all these into a "Everything Gov't Shutdown Thread"? 

[Duckus]

Jumbo, is it doable to just combine all these into a "Everything Gov't Shutdown Thread"? 

 

Agreed. i think one thread would be helpful.

[The Evil Genius]

46% oppose Obamacare and 37% oppose ACA. 

 

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/whats-name-lots-when-it-comes-obamacare-aca-8C11270154

 

 

People are dumb. 

[twa]

 

 

People are dumb. 

especially those that reply to polls

[skinsmarydu]

especially those that reply to polls

kinda like people who keep cryptically replying to a message board where their opinion is blown out by & discounted by almost everyone else (I'm counting just you & chip on the R side).  That alone should tell you something, but then again, I'm not all that surprised.

If there's anyone I missed in Crazytown , feel free to make yourself known.  We're happy to help.

[chipwhich]

kinda like people who keep cryptically replying to a message board where their opinion is blown out by & discounted by almost everyone else (I'm counting just you & chip on the R side).  That alone should tell you something, but then again, I'm not all that surprised.

If there's anyone I missed in Crazytown , feel free to make yourself known.  We're happy to help.

 

SMD, I never said I don't want you or any other American to get healthcare.  I am glad you are able to get it.  You obviously don't read my posts.

[The Evil Genius]

This must be the slimdown that Fox News is talking about.

 

[TheGoodBits]

This must be the slimdown that Fox News is talking about.

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/812416982.png?1380660214]

Dey don't need no clinical trials, dey got dat Obamercare wut started today.

[skinsmarydu]

This must be the slimdown that Fox News is talking about.

 

And they're so friggin' proud of what they've done.

Hope you're happy, you a-holes.

 

edited because I was advised to, however I thought the filter would've done the job. 

[skinsmarydu]

SMD, I never said I don't want you or any other American to get healthcare.  I am glad you are able to get it.  You obviously don't read my posts.

I read everything.  Please don't deny what has already helped a lot of people. 

If you have a "wait & see" approach, that's cool.  Just don't trash it for those it may help.

I want you, your family, and your employees happy.  Maybe I come across harshly, and for that I'll apologize. 

[Mad Mike]

46% oppose Obamacare and 37% oppose ACA. 

 

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/whats-name-lots-when-it-comes-obamacare-aca-8C11270154

 

 

People are dumb. 

 

Jimmy Kimmel: Do you prefer Obamacare or the Affordable Care Act? - latimes.com

[Jumbo]

Again, more "budget fight" part of the thread title than SS/Medicare

 

 

Majority Disapprove of Shutting Down Government Over Health Law

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/news/fiscal-crisis/2013/10/03/poll-finds-majority-disapprove-of-shutting-down-government-over-health-law/?_r=0

 

A wide majority of Americans disapprove of shutting down the federal government over differences about the 2010 health care law, including a majority of those who oppose the law, according to the latest CBS News poll.

 

Americans are also overwhelmingly dissatisfied, and increasingly angry, with the way things are going in Washington. More than 4 in 10 now say they are angry, up 13 percentage points since March.

 

The poll, which was conducted Tuesday and Wednesday, found that 72 percent disapprove of partially shutting down the government because of differences over the Affordable Care Act, including 59 percent of respondents who do not like the health care law. Large majorities of independents and Democrats disapprove; nearly half of Republicans and most supporters of the Tea Party movement approve.

 

More than 7 in 10 say Congress should place a higher priority on passing a resolution to get the government running again, rather than stopping some provisions of the health care law from taking effect. And two-thirds say any budget agreement should be kept separate from discussions about funding the health care law; just a quarter, including a slight majority of Republicans, say a budget agreement should also cut off funding for the law.

 

<more at link>

 

[twa]

76% want Obama and the Democrats to compromise, and 78% want House Republicans to compromise. Sixty-one percent of Democrats want to see compromise from their own side, and 59% of Republicans

 

we seem to have a consensus on compromising at least

[Bliz]

76% want Obama and the Democrats to compromise, and 78% want House Republicans to compromise. Sixty-one percent of Democrats want to see compromise from their own side, and 59% of Republicans

 

we seem to have a consensus on compromising at least

 

But compromise on what?  Too vague to be of much use. 

 

If you want to punch me in the balls, I don't see "okay, I'll punch you in the face instead" as a compromise I can work with.

 

Just as, I'm sure, Pubs wouldn't see it as a compromise they could work with if the shoe were on the other foot and Dems demanded an assault weapons ban in order to repoen the govt.

[bcl05]

The ACA is already a compromise.  The time for compromise is in the drafting of a bill/law.  It was debated for months before the final version was completed.  It is already significantly watered-down from many of the original "liberal" health-care reform proposals.  It was debated, voted on, and passed.  The supreme court heard a ton of testimony and decided it was consitutional.  The time for debate and compromise about the ACA has come and gone.  This defunding/shutdown stunt is absurd and stupid.

[The Sisko]

As for turning its back on the teachings of Jesus, you're completely wrong. The primary point of Jesus' teachings is that a person must do it of their own accord, not be forced by a government.

True. To counter a subsequent post that quoted the Bible here's some support for this position: 

 

 

 

Deuteronomy 15:11  

For there will never cease to be poor in the land but that the righteous take action. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall let them die'.

 

[twa]

The ACA is already a compromise.  The time for compromise is in the drafting of a bill/law.  It was debated for months before the final version was completed.  It is already significantly watered-down from many of the original "liberal" health-care reform proposals.  It was debated, voted on, and passed.  The supreme court heard a ton of testimony and decided it was consitutional.  The time for debate and compromise about the ACA has come and gone.  This defunding/shutdown stunt is absurd and stupid.

 

 

They why isn't funding for it mandated?

Budgets are time for compromises and funding it is discretionary.

 

I still find it hard to believe they are afraid to vote to fund ACA separately and are will to see a shutdown

[Tulane Skins Fan]

They why isn't funding for it mandated?

Budgets are time for compromises and funding it is discretionary.

 

I still find it hard to believe they are afraid to vote to fund ACA separately and are will to see a shutdown

 

The ACA is funded already.

[twa]

The ACA is funded already.

then the senate obviously will have no problem not allocating funds for it in the new CR .....problem solved

 

in other words it is like that budget the senate passed, not exactly the whole story

 

add

http://healthlegislation.blogspot.com/2011/12/discretionary-funding-in-patient.html

The Congressional Budget Office estimated that ACA’s discretionary spending provisions, if fully funded by future appropriations acts, would result in appropriations of approximately $106 billion over the 10-year period FY2010-FY2019. Most of that funding would be for programs that existed prior to, and whose funding was reauthorized by, ACA. Few new programs created by ACA received funding in FY2010 or FY2011.

 

or if you prefer

 

Funding for all of these programs and activities is subject to action by congressional appropriators.

[nonniey]

46% oppose Obamacare and 37% oppose ACA. 

 

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/whats-name-lots-when-it-comes-obamacare-aca-8C11270154

 

 

People are dumb. 

Yep, at least 63% are according to those two polls.

[skinsmarydu]

The link in post #344 is from 2011.  Since SCOTUS has ruled since then, and the LAW has been upheld, doesn't that throw the "discretionary spending" part right out the window? 

This is not an earmark.  This is not a pork project. 

This is a law. 

Usually when one side wants to repeal a law, you must have the votes or the election.  Rs have neither.

[twa]

The link in post #344 is from 2011.  Since SCOTUS has ruled since then, and the LAW has been upheld, doesn't that throw the "discretionary spending" part right out the window? 

This is not an earmark.  This is not a pork project. 

This is a law. 

Usually when one side wants to repeal a law, you must have the votes or the election.  Rs have neither.

laws do not have to be funded if it is discretionary.,SCOTUS does not manage the purse ,nor did they attempt to

 

kinda like our immigration laws do not have to be enforced obviously

[Larry]

Meanwhile, as to the thread title of "Why Don't The Gop De-Fund Medicare / Social Security?", looks like some version of that is on the horizon.

Gainesville Sun/AP: Prospect for quick end to shutdown is remote

 

 

WASHINGTON — Prospects for a swift end to the 4-day-old partial government shutdown all but vanished Friday as lawmakers squabbled into the weekend and increasingly shifted their focus to a midmonth deadline for averting a threatened first-ever default.

 

"This isn't some damn game," said House Speaker John Boehner, as the White House and Democrats held to their position of agreeing to negotiate only after the government is reopened and the $16.7 trillion debt limit raised.

 

House Republicans appeared to be shifting their demands, de-emphasizing their previous insistence on defunding the health care overhaul in exchange for re-opening the government. Instead, they ramped up calls for cuts in federal benefit programs and future deficits, items that Boehner has said repeatedly will be part of any talks on debt limit legislation.

 

 

Apparently, it's been decided that the way to deal with the fallout from shutting down the government if we can't force Congress to do things that we don't have the votes to accomplish, is to grab a more important hostage, and attach different demands to the new hostage.  (And hope that this diverts attention from what we've already done.) 

 

"See, the problem isn't that we're using terrorist tactics to try to impose a political objective that the voters don't want in the first place.  The problem is that we aren't controlling the message well enough."