AsburySkinsFan Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 But haven't you heard? Imposing your religion on others is religious freedom. (If the religion is Christianity). And anybody who disagrees is infringing on your religious freedom. See that's just it, one of the things Christians claim is freedom in Christ, and we reject legalism...except when it's our will we wan imposed then it's what is best for our communities or families.Just like the Puritans. Unless some Muslim decides that the Constitution applies to her too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 44 they could pass a budget and avoid CR's and raising the debt limit.of course doing so requires negotiation and controlling spending. saying give me money comes at a price, unconditional funding does seem like a Democrats wet dream......time to wake up They are not asking for an increase in the budget, it's about keeping the government open at current levels to buy time to reach a deal. Neither side has the high ground or control, but only one side is trying to leverage concessions. "A popular $44.1 billion transportation and housing bill had to be pulled from the House floor in late July. Of the eight annual appropriations bills that are mostly nondefense spending, none made it through the House this year." Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/government-shutdown-gop-budget-97504.html#ixzz2gKOtD2yE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 They are not asking for and increase in the budget, it's about keeping the government open at current levels to buy time to reach a deal. Neither side has the high ground or control, but only one side is trying to leverage concessions. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/government-shutdown-gop-budget-97504.html?hp=l2 they are asking to continue spending w/o a budget.... buying time infers giving something Larry, the imposition in this case is on the religious ASF , the freedom of religion and the right to exercise it is what drives that spending under our law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 Your religious thoughts stop at my body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Your religious thoughts stop at my body. unless it is for the greater good, then we can make you take drugs,get surgery and medical care...or even confine you. or force you to pay absolutes are rare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 they are asking to continue spending w/o a budget.... buying time infers giving something Larry, the imposition in this case is on the religious ASF , the freedom of religion and the right to exercise it is what drives that spending under our law So if the House fails to pass a budget the Senate and President must make concessions to keep the government open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 So if the House fails to pass a budget the Senate and President must make concessions to keep the government open? No, but they might have to to avoid the consequences though. the House has offered a option,now two......I hear they have more are the POTUS and Senate willing to BUY time or to simply demand it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I think the President and the Senate are going to let the Republicans hang themselves in public opinion. The Senate offered an option too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I think the President and the Senate are going to let the Republicans hang themselves in public opinion. The Senate offered an option too. That is certainly a option, the no negotiating statements seem to indicate that choice. maybe shutting down the govt will delay the debt ceiling hike fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Your religious thoughts stop at my body. I'll just note that your body can get the birth control you want regardless of whether your plan covers it, and that you'll have other plans to choose from in every circumstance with an option for free contraception...regardless of whether the R's pass this rider or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Have to admit, simply admiring the political theater, I think this is a new tactic by the R's. I think, always before, they've demanded that they will only stop filibustering the Senate, if the Senate agrees to vote on the R demands without any amendments. I think this (allowing amendments) is new. And, instead of demanding one thing that they know they won't get, they're demanding several. (This is so that they can claim to be more flexible. "See, we gave them a choice between Obama resigning, or killing the first born of every Dem in the Senate. See how flexible we are?") At least their tactics of holding the country hostage, unless they get what they don't have the votes to pass, have evolved, some. Suppose it might work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 simply another delay in ACA = killing the first born or impeachment ......HOSTAGE lol hyperbole much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 the House has offered a option,now two......I hear they have more are the POTUS and Senate willing to BUY time or to simply demand it ? Yeah some options....do you want us to kill you with a gun or a knife?Only extremists see those as choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Yay, I won't be able to pay my bills in a few weeks because these rich tools can't come to an agreement. Good times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 simply another delay in ACA = killing the first born or impeachment ......HOSTAGE lol hyperbole much? No, "give me what I want, if you don't want to intentionally harm the economy" ....HOSTAGE. You know. The only thing the Republicans have EVER offered, to try to get the majority party to let the minority party issue absolute orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Not quoting your entire post, just for simplicity. But now, what I'm hearing, is "If consumers move to a policy that has a higher deductible, then they might have to pay more out of pocket". I certainly assume that this is true. But, it's true whether Obamacare passes or not. Anecdote: I've been complaining about how much my insurance has gone up. And I was wondering if maybe I might switch to the exchanges, when they open. But first I had to check out what my existing policy covers, so I could make a valid comparison. (I literally don't know what kind of coverage I have. Only thing I've used health insurance for, in 10 years, is like 5 doctor visits, for which I pay a $20 copay.) Looks like, if I go to the exchanges, my premiums would likely go from $500/mo to more like $350. And my coverage will go from $1,000 deductible, and they pay 90% after that, to $5,000 deductible, and they pay 80% after that. Suspect I'm gonna stick with BCBS. Observing that Obamacare, far as I'm aware, doesn't "dump" anybody anywhere. All it does is give then the choice. (Well, there are some exceptions. People who have been carrying coverage that doesn't meet the minimums (or none at all. And people with really expensive plans that won;t be fully tax deductible any more.) It occurs to me that your company might fall into the latter. What you're giving your employees is basically health insurance with zero deductible. (Which might also explain why so many of them spend so much. But I assume that you know that.) (Just like I assume you're aware that the health care coverage you're describing is an extreme outlier compared to most businesses) "But, it's true whether Obamacare passes or not." True but this isn't about private insurance, it's about what people will now have to pay that don't have insurance. It's about what is Obamacare really giving the people? I contend it's really only catastrophe insurance which isn't what the people want. You discuss insurance like "oh the insurance company will pay for it". Yeah the insurance company is the people and as claims rise, which they will, so will premiums. "Looks like, if I go to the exchanges, my premiums would likely go from $500/mo to more like $350." Yeah, but oh wait when I used to go to the doctor I have had since birth for a $20 copay now I have to go to Joe Blo who just stood up a practice 25 miles away and it's $50. Not to mention my kid who got voice therapy covered as a service under BC/BS is no longer covered under Obamacare, so now I have to pay for the visit outright which doesn't count towards my yearly out of pocket expenses. "What you're giving your employees is basically health insurance with zero deductible. (Which might also explain why so many of them spend so much. But I assume that you know that.) (Just like I assume you're aware that the health care coverage you're describing is an extreme outlier compared to most businesses)" Yes, the idea behind having outrageous deductibles will mean people wont go to the doctor, which proves my point. Let's give the people a plan which will be expensive and painful to use so that I will have catostrophic coverage and not break the system, but doesn't really solve my basic needs. Read this and think hard over it. Insurance -vs- Coverage. Insurance -vs- Coverage. Insurance -vs- Coverage. You have insurance against cardiac arrest, but you don't have coverage to go to the doctor. You still just pay out of pocket. Obamacare really hit a homerun on that huh. Meanwhile I would pay the $750 fine or whatever it is and go to the emergency room when I have cardiac arrest. It dumbfounds me that you don't get that. But hey, as Burgold says, maybe this is a step to Universal Health Care..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 No, "give me what I want, if you don't want to intentionally harm the economy" ....HOSTAGE. You know. The only thing the Republicans have EVER offered, to try to get the majority party to let the minority party issue absolute orders. some people feel the ACA harms the economy..at least the House is offering something besides a order maybe you should use the we don't negotiate with terrorists line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 some people feel the ACA harms the economy.No they don't, in the election it was all about how the ACA was socialism, now that they lost that fight they want to pretend that their budget hawks.at least the House is offering something besides a orderLoL you don't think the GOP has issued its orders? "Hi, we're the GOP, Gun or knife?" maybe you should use the we don't negotiate with terrorists lineAt this point tell me what the difference is, they're holding a gun to the head to the economy and screaming that if Obama doesn't give in to what they want then they'll shoot. They are terrorists.Using the terror of a gov't shutdown to manipulate their opposition to give in to their demands. It's nothing more than a hostage situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 "But, it's true whether Obamacare passes or not." True but this isn't about private insurance, it's about what people will now have to pay that don't have insurance. And such people's expenses will change, in the following ways. 1) They will have to pay the premiums. Not premiums plus the deductible. The premiums. 2) And their other medical expenses will go down. (Unless they were zero, in which case they will stay the same.) To the person who has an infinite deductible, the fact that Obamacare has a $5000 deductible isn't a drawback. (Although, no doubt, to lots of people, it isn't much of a difference, either. Lots of folks, a $5000 deductible might as well be infinite.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 You have insurance against cardiac arrest, but you don't have coverage to go to the doctor. You still just pay out of pocket. Actually, as I understand it, that's not true. Routine doctor visits and several other things aren't part of the deductible. (Just like they aren't, under my plan.) You'll pay a small copay, but not the whole price. But I do get your point. Lots of things aren't covered, till you get to the deductible. some people feel the ACA harms the economy.. No doubt some people do. If there's one thing we've had our noses rubbed in, lately, it's that there's a lot of people in the Republican base who will believe anything the well-oiled kool aid machine tells them to believe. But that's not why the GOP has made killing the law their #1 legislative agenda for the last five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 It's kind of weird to me. One of the rationales behind the ACA was that there were 10's of millions of people without health insurance who couldn't afford it and those people are suffereing or they are using the emergency room as their primary care physician causing great expence which is then carried on to the rest of us. Now, the argument seems to be why don't the poor just eat cake... after all, they liked being uninsured and having no safety net! I remember getting a bloodtest and the lab misfiled my insurance. Their billing department sent me a bill for around 800 for that single vial and whatever gauntlet they ran it through. I complained and asked why my insurance did nothing. They asked me for my insurance info again. When they re-ran the numbers I got a bill for 77 dollars. Mind you, that was my first doctor visit of the year and so my insurance didn't pay the lab a sent. I was still completely in deductible land. People without insurance who need medical care get royally screwed. The charges are not the same. That too, shouldn't be allowed, but it's the way of the world apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Actually, as I understand it, that's not true. Routine doctor visits and several other things aren't part of the deductible. (Just like they aren't, under my plan.) You'll pay a small copay, but not the whole price. But I do get your point. Lots of things aren't covered, till you get to the deductible. I even got my co-pay back on my physical...and it was explained to me as "physicals are absolutely free now." No co-pay at all for my flu shot last year. Only slightly higher co-pay for the urgent care "doc-in-the-box" visit for pink eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 At this point tell me what the difference is, they're holding a gun to the head to the economy and screaming that if Obama doesn't give in to what they want then they'll shoot. They are terrorists. Using the terror of a gov't shutdown to manipulate their opposition to give in to their demands. It's nothing more than a hostage situation. hostage/gun/shoot....such violent imagery that the difference isn't plain to you makes me sad....how do you hold hostage what is yours? the house has the power of the purse by law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 ...and the Senate stops the madness. ~ Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 hostage/gun/shoot....such violent imagery ....how do you hold hostage what is yours? Kind of like this: http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3462502400/tt0071230?ref_=ttmi_mi_all_pbl_14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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