Budget Fight: Why Don't The Gop De-Fund Medicare / Social Security?

[Larry]

hostage/gun/shoot....such violent imagery

that the difference isn't plain to you makes me sad....how do you hold hostage what is yours?

the house has the power of the purse by law

Oh, for the good old days, when merely not agreeing with the previous administration's signature legacy meant that someone was a terrorist-loving traitor.

[GSF]

One good thing that will come out of all of this is the damage it's going to do to the tea party/far right.  They are all on tv trying to shift the blame over to the Preisdent and senate, but the polls show that few Americans are buying their schtick.  When you listen to them speak, it's laughable how ridiculously unbelievable they sound.

 

The American government is not going to function until these wackos are voted out.  There are plenty of sane Republicans out there, but right now they've lost control of their party.

[twa]

and the govt was functioning so well w/o them 

[GSF]

and the govt was functioning so well w/o them 

The government functioned much better under Reagan and Clinton than it does now.  There was always politics, but both sides were able to work with each other.  the tea party has changed everything, and everyone that is not part of that group knows it.

[Wrong Direction]

 

To the person who has an infinite deductible, the fact that Obamacare has a $5000 deductible isn't a drawback.  (Although, no doubt, to lots of people, it isn't much of a difference, either.  Lots of folks, a $5000 deductible might as well be infinite.) 

 

The truth is that we don't know if this financial structure is doomed to fail or good enough to succeed for two primary reasons:

 

1. This isn't about what you, or Obama, thinks is best for people. It's about individual's decision whether to sign up and pay that premium linked to that deductible, or not. A lot of people, particularly the relatively healthy, will choose not to sign up to a benefit with that structure, regardless of whether you think that's dumb. Some won't see the cost-benefit. Others will be motivated by politics and will opt not to join.

 

2. The point above *could* result in a lot of relatively sick cohorts joining these plans, and a lot of relatively healthy people taking the risk. We'll find out (and I genuinely don't know how this mix will alter future pricing). However, if you do have only sick people joining, this becomes tough to sustain financially.

 

This *could be* the problem with the mandate. Constitutionality aside, the tax penalty might not be big enough to encourage the people health plans need to join the exchanges. On the other hand, I could be totally wrong on this and won't know until we see who enrolls. It's apparent to me that insurance companies are banking on lower premiums to get people in. These plans are no dummies. I'm sure they're relying on their own market research to design the most attractive benefit structures possible under the rules. That's what business does. These premiums might be low enough to encourage healthy people to join regardless of the large deductibles.

 

We'll find out over the next couple of months, if the government's open.

[AsburySkinsFan]

hostage/gun/shoot....such violent imagery

They are commiting violence through fear and intimidation. Just because you don't like the imagery doesn't mean that it isn't true.

that the difference isn't plain to you makes me sad....how do you hold hostage what is yours?

the house has the power of the purse by law

Then they should just defund the ACA...oh wait they did, but since they don't control both houses the GOP House is forced to hold hostage hoping the President gives in.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

simply another delay in ACA = killing the first born or impeachment ......HOSTAGE lol

 

hyperbole much?

 

Oh stop, you and the GOP have been speaking in hyperbole for last five years.  Obama is the "worst president of all time," he is "the weakest president of all time," simultaneously he is "the most tyrranical," "Obamcare is socialism," "Obamcare will literally kill you," we are "becoming europe," "we are communist," "Obama hates real America," "Obama is the worst commander in chief," "Obamacare kills jobs," "Obama should be impeached," "Obama is destroying our liberties," "Obama is hitler," "we need to stand up to Obamacare like America stood up to Hitler" (that one by Senator Cruz), etc. etc.

 

Stop pretending you are put off by hyperbole.  And frankly, the sane members of the GOP are calling it hostage taking too.  Its a saying used to describe a negotiation tactic.  

[Wrong Direction]

Some scuttlebutt...Note: this is informed speculation, at best. Very few people know for sure what Boehner et al are planning.

 

One semi-insider's speculation is that the government will shut down for a couple of days. The R's are making their point about the mandate, taxes and spending of the ACA. They will pass the military bill and generally assume that a couple of days of a shut down won't be a big deal. There will be a short term CR passed that basically gets us to the date of the debt ceiling, which is the bigger concern.

[chipwhich]

They are commiting violence through fear and intimidation. Just because you don't like the imagery doesn't mean that it isn't true.

Then they should just defund the ACA...oh wait they did, but since they don't control both houses the GOP House is forced to hold hostage hoping the President gives in.

 

Who is scared? 

[The Evil Genius]

Leave it to millionaire GOP House members to prefer a government shutdown over providing insurance for the poor and sick.

 

He's a black man with a funny name.

 

Get over it already.

[twa]

Leave it to millionaire GOP House members to prefer a government shutdown over providing insurance for the poor and sick.

 

He's a black man with a funny name.

 

Get over it already.

They are all rich racists and hate the poor

 

and it is Monday,Tuesday will be the same refrain

 

Now give me 

[twa]

 

Stop pretending you are put off by hyperbole.  And frankly, the sane members of the GOP are calling it hostage taking too.  Its a saying used to describe a negotiation tactic.  

 

Help, I'm being terrorized,blackmailed and raped.

[Wrong Direction]

Leave it to millionaire GOP House members to prefer a government shutdown over providing insurance for the poor and sick.

 

He's a black man with a funny name.

 

Get over it already.

 

This isn't a helpful characterization of the GOPs position, but it's exactly what the left wants you to belive, so go with it.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Help, I'm being terrorized,blackmailed and raped.

 

You've been saying that for five years.

[Hersh]

This isn't a helpful characterization of the GOPs position, but it's exactly what the left wants you to belive, so go with it.

 

What's the GOPs position? I sure don't see them offering any solutions to ensure access to health care for all but I still do see the occasional references by the rank and file to Obama's middle name.

[TheGoodBits]

This isn't a helpful characterization of the GOPs position, but it's exactly what the left wants you to belive, so go with it.

The GOP doesn't have a position. They've been hijacked by the Tea Party and lost their ability to operate because of it. The Tea Party's position is and always has been to undermine Obama not matter what the stakes. If sequestration, furloughs, and now government shutdown come out of their efforts to defund a healthcare law that was a Republican solution to begin with, then that's a positive outcome in their mind. Government is bad, Obama is evil, ACA is akin to Communism. Or Hitler. Or something.

[AsburySkinsFan]

This isn't a helpful characterization of the GOPs position, but it's exactly what the left wants you to belive, so go with it.

Seriously, it's like you are asking us to just pretend that the last seven years didn't happen.

[The Evil Genius]

This isn't a helpful characterization of the GOPs position, but it's exactly what the left wants you to belive, so go with it.

 

It's not helpful for who? The millionaires in Congress who prefer governmnent shutdown over giving healthcare to the poor and sick?

 

They absolutely have a problem with the ACA because it came under O's watch. Had a GOP President offered this watered down version of the ACA then this government shutdown wouldn't be staring us in the face.

 

The spoiled GOP House members are taking their proverbial ball home rather than playing since they can't get their way (and in doing so they are achieving what they actually want - denying any and everything that has O's approval).

[AsburySkinsFan]

The GOP doesn't have a position. They've been hijacked by the Tea Party and lost their ability to operate because of it. The Tea Party's position is and always has been to undermine Obama not matter what the stakes. If sequestration, furloughs, and now government shutdown come out of their efforts to defund a healthcare law that was a Republican solution to begin with, then that's a positive outcome in their mind. Government is bad, Obama is evil, ACA is akin to Communism. Or Hitler. Or something.

Then they want us to forget everything they've said and done.

You're exactly right about the GOP being hijacked by the Tea Party, instead of leading the GOP leadership embraced the Tea Party because they were afraid that if they didn't then the party would be split. Now they're stuck with people who believe that throwing temper tantrums is better than being statesmen.

[SkinsHokieFan]

You have a GOP filled with political nihlists who really aren't in DC to offer solutions.

 

You have a President who has been told by members of his party to just play golf and stay out of the negotiations.

 

You have 2 parties who refuse to talk to each other. You have 1 party that doesn't realize elections have consequences, and another party that knows politically it will be a big win for them when the shutdown occurs because the other side is filled with nutjobs 

[Tulane Skins Fan]

You have a GOP filled with political nihlists who really aren't in DC to offer solutions.

 

You have a President who has been told by members of his party to just play golf and stay out of the negotiations.

 

You have 2 parties who refuse to talk to each other. You have 1 party that doesn't realize elections have consequences, and another party that knows politically it will be a big win for them when the shutdown occurs because the other side is filled with nutjobs 

 

Exactly.

 

I can't see the logic for the GOP on this one.  I can BARELY see it for the democrats.  

[Larry]

Help, I'm being terrorized,blackmailed and raped.

That ain't rape. You enjoy it.

[The Evil Genius]

You also have douchebags like GOP House member John Culberson (from where else? Texas...) that compare the fight over the ACA and  preffered tactic of government shutdown to the passengers fight on 9/11 UA flight 93.

 

"Let's roll", indeed.

 

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Just saw this poll: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/09/30/rel10a.pdf

 

Look at 8 and 9 combined on page 2.  Basically, 39% of people oppose the healthcare law because they think its too liberal.  11% of people oppose it because its not liberal enough.  

 

So, because 39% of the country thinks Obamacare is too liberal, the house is threatening to shut down the government and default on the debt to stop it?  This is insanity.

[Larry]

Just saw this poll: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/09/30/rel10a.pdf

 

Look at 8 and 9 combined on page 2.  Basically, 39% of people oppose the healthcare law because they think its too liberal.  11% of people oppose it because its not liberal enough.  

 

So, because 39% of the country thinks Obamacare is too liberal, the house is threatening to shut down the government and default on the debt to stop it?  This is insanity.

 

Just pointing out.  No, as far as I'm aware, there has never been a threat to default on the debt. 

 

Just my opinion, but refusing to raise the debt ceiling will not in any way cause the US to refuse to (or to be unable to) pay off outstanding t-bills. 

 

IMO, it very will might trigger economic conditions worse than the Great Depression.  Might very well shake investor confidence enough that the interest on t-bills might skyrocket. 

 

But I do think that that phrase just isn't true. 

 

(And it would be more appropriate in the "The Republicans are holding the debt ceiling hostage" thread, which I figure is due in the next week or two.)