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***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

RonArtest15

By RonArtest15
in The Tailgate

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)

.It's all come together because Golden State decided to start trying to win and made incremental improvements by acquiring a bunch of good, not great players, getting good coaches, and having their PG unexpectedly bloom into a superstar.

 

Again, Curry was clearly good enough early in his career that you could see the possibility of him becoming a real good and even player.

 

I think at some level we are having a basic issue with communication.

 

Let me try and explain my point again with respect to the Sixers.

 

We agree right now that Wall is better than Wiggins, and it is possible and maybe even likely that Wiggins in 4 years will not be better than Wall.

 

And Curry is clearly better than Wiggins is now.

 

And I don't think you can win a championship with Wall as clearly your best players (to Predicto's point, I can imagine scenarios where it does happen, and if they get lucky the can, but I don't think it will happen).

 

So if I'm rebuilding, I want a player on my team that I think has a reasonable possibility of being better a Wall like player.

 

To me, Wiggins is that player.  Is he better than Wall is now?  No.

 

Is it possible he'll never be better than Wall is now?  Yes.

 

Was it possible after Wall's first year that he would be better than Wall is now?

 

Yes.

 

Even now, it is possible that Wall will work on his shot and it will improve significantly to get to where he's a 35+% 3 pt shooter.

 

However, the Sixers don't have a player that is playing that has a reasonable chance of being better than Wall.  It is possible that Embiid is that player, but it is also isn't clear that he's going to be healthy enough to play in the NBA.

 

Do I know that Wiggins is going to bloom into a Curry level player?  No.

 

But I think there is a reasonable chance of it that I'm willing to go forward with him as my key player.

 

On the Sixers, I don't see that player currently, including MCW.

Edited by PeterMP
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Hersh

Hersh

Posted
Posted (edited)

I've continually added qualifiers to statement through out this conversation.  Are you reading anything I actually write?

 

Nobody in this thread thinks it is likely MCW is going to be a a foundational player.

 

Do you watch the Sixers at all?

 

The team is clearly better.  One player doesn't make a team (and what do people have with Young in this thread?  Do you realize he just got traded for a good PR story (a broken down over the hill over paid Kevin Garnett returning to Minnesota)?

 

The team is clearly better.  They are actually a reasonably good defensive team.  Here's more stats for you.

 

They've moved up from 26th in defensive rating to 12th.  Both years, they are 30th offensive.

 

Last years team broke the record for the most losses in a row.

 

I think what they do with Noel will depend on what they can get in this years draft and Embiid's health.  If Embiid is healthy and they end up with a better big in the draft, then I actually fully suspect they trade Noel.  I wouldn't actually be surprised if Noel was involved in a draft day trade.

 

If they have an opportunity to get a potentially really good 1, 2, or 3, then I think they will give it a run next year with Embiid as a 5 and Noel as a 4.

 

If they end up with a guy like Towns and Embiid is healthy, then I think they'll move Noel.

 

 

Yes, they are clearly better which is why they were 0-17 to start the season. Clearly better since they are 1-9 without MCW this year. Clearly better that they have the same offensive ranking. Must be all the better players they have surrounded him with this year. Congratulations that they have a better defensive team this year. I'm not sure what stat you are using that says they are 12th this year, but they have the worst point differential in the league and they are 21st in points allowed per game.

 

I'm reading your qualifiers that you keep needing to throw in when your original argument gets debunked.

 

Again, reigning rookie of the year playing on one of the most dysfunctional teams in the league and let's definitely judge him for a bad sophomore year...whatever you say.

 

You may actually be right about MCW at the end of the day. However, to suggest anyone knows that definitely after this season in Philly is laughable.

Edited by Hersh
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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yes, they are clearly better which is why they were 0-17 to start the season. Clearly better since they are 1-9 without MCW this year. Clearly better that they have the same offensive ranking. Must be all the better players they have surrounded him with this year. Congratulations that they have a better defensive team this year. I'm not sure what stat you are using that says they are 12th this year, but they have the worst point differential in the league and they are 21st in points allowed per game.

 

I'm reading your qualifiers that you keep needing to throw in when your original argument gets debunked.

 

Again, reigning rookie of the year playing on one of the most dysfunctional teams in the league and let's definitely judge him for a bad sophomore year...whatever you say.

 

You may actually be right about MCW at the end of the day. However, to suggest anyone knows that definitely after this season in Philly is laughable.

 

They were 30th in points allowed last year (so from 30th to 21st so better), and they had the worst point differential last year too.

 

And it is hard to improve your offense when the player that has the highest offensive usage (which he did last year too) goes backwards by every measure (MCW).

 

In addition, Wroten, their backup PG, and MCW have both missed time this year.  They've been signing D-league backup PGs to 10 day contracts essentially as try outs when one has been out.

 

And so that shows up in the team stats, but doesn't really affect MCW (he doesn't play with the back up PG).

 

Betwen MCW playing worse and the combination of injuries to MCW and Wroten, it would have been remarkable if they actually improved on offense.

 

And right from the start, I've put in qualifiers;

 

"Unless MCW puts in a tremendous amount of time on his shot, he's always going to be offensively limited."

 

That's my first statement about MCW in this thread.

 

Here's the conclusion of that same post:

 

"The rebuilding begins when you have a (healthy) possible top 6 player to build around. I don't think any of the guys they traded are that guy."

 

I don't think they guys the traded are that guy.  If MCW turns into a 35% 3 pt. shooter, then that changes things, but I don't think that's going to happen.

 

And I've shown that it isn't likely (no guard currently shooting 35% from the 3 pt. in the NBA has been below 30% shooting for their first two seasons, which is going to happen to MCW unless he has a huge improvement with the Bucks).

 

And that's the reality of today's NBA.  You have to evaluate people when you have a not very good team because if get into the middle region, it gets hard to get good players.

 

They either have to say we have a core here that we can with or we don't.

 

And if you say you have a core you can win (a championship) with, and you really don't, then it is easy to get stuck yourself with several years of being a middle/bottom playoff seed if you are in the weaker NBA conference.

 

I don't think the combination of Noel and MCW represented such a core.

 

If MCW becomes a much better shooter, then that would change,but I don't think that's going to happen.

 

Could he?

 

Yes.

But I don't think so.

 

**EDIT**

By PER, win shares, win shares/48 min, MCW is the worse rookie of the year going back to least Emeka Okafor.

 

And based on win shares/48 min, he's following it up with the worse 2nd season for a rookie of the year, and he might catch a few players for PER and win shares total, but that's only because some were hurt and missed a bunch of games (e.g. Okafor only played 26 games in year 2 so MCW will likely catch him in total win shares).

Edited by PeterMP
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StillUnknown

StillUnknown

Posted
Posted (edited)

Royce Young
‏@royceyoung
Kevin Durant underwent a procedure today on his right foot to help reduce pain and discomfort. He'll be re-evaluated in a week.

 

David AldridgeVerified account
‏@daldridgetnt
Thunder say Kevin Durant's initial injury has healed, but irritation from the screw inserted in his foot will keep him out at least a week.

Edited by StillUnknown
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Warhead36

Warhead36

Posted
Posted

Royce Young

‏@royceyoung

Kevin Durant underwent a procedure today on his right foot to help reduce pain and discomfort. He'll be re-evaluated in a week.

 

David AldridgeVerified account

‏@daldridgetnt

Thunder say Kevin Durant's initial injury has healed, but irritation from the screw inserted in his foot will keep him out at least a week.

DC Curse hitting him already and he ain't even here yet.

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EvilMonkeyBoy

EvilMonkeyBoy

Posted
Posted (edited)

I've would check out Rockets games here and there to see Isaiah Canaan after I read about Houston's D-League team experimenting with an all 3-Ball all the time offense. Him n Ricky Ledo are my favorite obscure players to develop in 2k.

I watched his 76ers debut and I'm now watching their matchup against the Heat and I'm just green with envy that they have a PG with a shot like his. He would be absolutely perfect for the Wizards second unit.

https://vine.co/v/OQUF6DdpYax

Definitely up there for the best shot of the year.

Edited by EvilMonkeyBoy
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Lombardi's_kid_brother

Lombardi's_kid_brother

Posted
Posted

Did anyone watch/listen to Kobe on the Grantland Show?

 

I would totally watch a half hour ESPN show where Professor Kobe just explains basketball. He really is a genius yet can explain himself. He can get techincal - talking about triangle elements in San Antonio's offense - and into "hot takes" territory - discussing the "who's team is it question" in a really interesting way. I think he would be a terrible color commentator and doesn't really have the personality for a half-game pre game show.

 

Really, his destiny is to talk about stuff while being all alone, because he clearly hates all other human beings. I'm amazed he didn't just beat Bill Simmons with a boom mic. He seemed to have a grudging respect for Jalen. And Jalen does seem to know when to get out of the way. Put the two of those on at 10:30 once a week and I am totally there.

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Destino

Destino

Posted
Posted

I'd like Kobe and Jeff Van Gundy to have their own nba show or segment where they only discuss nba things in depth. Not the superficial stuff. Break down what offenses/defenses are working, why, and what is new or innovative about them.

Kobe can't have his own show, he needs someone with a bit more energy to keep the audience awake. I wouldn't want some media guy that likes to talk about the media narratives filling that role though. The nba media makes me sick and putting any of them with Kobe would just consist of them humping his leg and talking about "star calls" and otherwise acting like fanboys.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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Posted

I think he'd be an atypical color commentator, but not a bad one. I don't think Kobe would actually be bad at any job he took. Too smart and too driven. You'd definitely need the right play by play guy because you know it'd be hard to work with him. But most of the color guys who are former players suuuck. Too many are basically just hype men and bring nothing of interest to the table whatsoever. I would actually listen to Kobe. Plus you know it would be fascinating to see which plays and players actually impressed him.

I doubt he'd do commentary, I doubt he'd be willing to put up with all of the traveling. I'm saying he could hack it if he did want to do it.

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mcsluggo

mcsluggo

Posted
Posted

I think he'd be an atypical color commentator, but not a bad one. I don't think Kobe would actually be bad at any job he took. Too smart and too driven. You'd definitely need the right play by play guy because you know it'd be hard to work with him. But most of the color guys who are former players suuuck. Too many are basically just hype men and bring nothing of interest to the table whatsoever. I would actually listen to Kobe. Plus you know it would be fascinating to see which plays and players actually impressed him.

I doubt he'd do commentary, I doubt he'd be willing to put up with all of the traveling. I'm saying he could hack it if he did want to do it.

 

that last bit, is the clincher.    

 

there is no doubt that Kobe is really smart, and really articulate.... so is Kareem Abdul Jabaar.  Kareem is a TERRIBLE talking head, basically because he is soooo dull, and doesn;t come across as likable at all.

 

Kobe can be charming when he tries (rarely), but still doesn;t come across as likable.   and i honestly can't see him wanting to (or being able to) keep on "trying" in front of the camera for all that long. 

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