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The Official ES Redskins Name Change Thread---All Things Related to Changing the Team's Name Go Here

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They talked about this on Tony's this morning. The way to do it would be for the NFL to "force" the change so Snyder saves face with the fanbase. Also. the NFL (owners) pitch in on the costs of something like that.

 

That way you have an owner saying "We didn't support this, and it's out of our hands".

 

Jesus, I looked at that site. Never thought people would take Warriors as American Military Warriors. I stand by my "No Nickname" stance. But this wouldn't shock me.

 

warriors.png

Edited by @SkinsGoldPants

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i would like every person who is on the fence about this issue to hear some words from this symposium today, and put that together with susan harjos and amanda blackhorses' made up story of the origin of the word, along with their stance that they want ALL native american themed mascots to be banned, and tell me these people arent nuts. 

 

 

 

http://freebeacon.com/activists-gather-to-change-redskins-name/

 

"One panelist argued the name should be changed because it is detrimental to Native Americans’ health.......Dr. Michael Friedman, a clinical psychologist, said the Redskins name is not a “victimless crime.”

“It’s really more of an issue of public health,” he said. “The continued use of a dictionary-defined racial slur as the team name for a prominent sports team in the nation’s capitol has direct public health consequences."...........Friedman said the Redskins name is adding to Native Americans’ stress.

“When you consider that public health context, anything, anything, any kind of stressor that causes more suffering, loss of functioning, loss of productivity, or loss of life has to be considered—not a political correctness issue, but a public health issue,” he said.

“We have a public health problem of an at-risk population that’s already suffering tremendously, already facing discrimination, is under a stressor that we know—as much as we know anything in psychosocial research—is going to make the mental health of this population worse,” Friedman said....

 

A 2004 poll conducted by the University of Pennsylvania’s National Annenberg Election Survey, found that 90 percent of Native Americans said the Redskins name did not bother them. Only 9 percent found the name offensive.

 

D.C. Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton (D.) told the Washington Free Beacon that the survey was “totally irrelevant,” suggesting Native Americans have only recently become aware of its offensive nature..........Holmes Norton said the poll has no bearing on the current debate because it is “almost 10 years old,” and that the name Redskin has “not always been offensive.”

So it wasn’t offensive 10 years ago?” the Free Beacon asked..................

Rep. Betty McCollum (D., Minn.) said Redskins owner Daniel Snyder refuses to change the name because he is driven by profits. She welcomed protests against the Redskins when the team travels to Minnesota on Nov. 7 to play the Vikings, whose mascot is a caricature of Germanic people.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
amazing. for those interested who havent read the whole thing (its not long), they mention the annenberg poll, the ives goddard paper and the words actual origin, and even mock the hypocrisy of greedy, self serving politicians.
 
outstanding. god bless the free beacon. seems like they get it. 
 
i would like to add, especially for you hard core lefties, that the washington post article- as of 8:15 pm- doesnt post ANY of these extremist quotes.
 
wacky.
 
Edited by grego

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Amazing to me that you would take this stance - but considering you have 70+ posts on the teams' official forum I guess I shouldn't be.  So I guess if they change the name...you are boycotting the team which includes Robert, Gibbs, our 3 Super Bowls, Sean Taylor, Sonny...Sam...Darrell Green. 

 

Amazing. 

 

Posts on a message board dictate fandom? My dad has been a Redskins fan for decades, traveled all over the country to see them and has NEVER posted on this board

 

Sometimes you have to stand for what you believe in and I think this entire debate is dumb, therefore if they take it t the extreme of changing the name then I will just simply stop watching, stop spending my money (which may be little in comparison), and move on.

 

Ill never forget the feeling I had as a kid watching the Gibbs era, or even last seasons epic run, but those memories are REDSKINS memories no longer being the Redskins means those are gone, I am a Redskins fan without the Redskins I am no longer a fan.

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D.C. Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton (D.) told the Washington Free Beacon that the survey was “totally irrelevant,” suggesting Native Americans have only recently become aware of its offensive nature.

Those poor savages had no idea.

It's up to us to continue to civilize them until they're as perfect as we are.

The hubris.

~Bang

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Those poor savages had no idea.

It's up to us to continue to civilize them until they're as perfect as we are.

The hubris.

~Bang

 

 

exactly the same thing i thought. what an unbelievable comment. 

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Far be it from me to tell any person or group how to feel...but...I am aghast that the Oneidas are still pushing this. They seem to think they are speaking for all Native Americans.

 

I guess someone has to speak up for the Huron, Erie and the Algonquin- especially since the Oneidas themselves, as a member of the Iroquois Confederacy decimated those tribes and others from the face of the earth during the Beaver Wars. If I correctly remember it was over $/fur trade. (If History class served me well- I could be wrong.) They were supposed to have been brutal.

 

Crying "racism" and assuring the media that they have the best interests in mind of all Native Americans just seems to me like a odd position for the Oneidas to take- considering the past.  

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Those poor savages had no idea.

It's up to us to continue to civilize them until they're as perfect as we are.

The hubris.

~Bang

 

It's stuff like that that pisses me off. Nothing is irrelevant. Everything should be discussed, especially the words and actions coming from the people who "Should" be offfended. IMO nothing is more offensive than blatantly ignoring them like small children

Edited by Mr. Sinister

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If you equate this to 1930s Germany, I didn't slap the label on, YOU did.

1930s Germany IS / WAS FASCISM. There is no separation.

You don't HAVE to say "fascism", because as soon as you say

"We might as well just be living in 1930s Germany and get it over with."

You have invoked FASCIST GERMANY.

You don't want people to think your comment is stupid and ignorant?

then don't make a stupid and ignorant comment.

And then, by all means, DON'T come back and explain how it wasn't stupid and ignorant, because it still is.

Your analogy is wrong. Your historic reference is wrong. Your belief that "1930s Germany" and "Fascism" are not the same thing is 100% TOTALLY WRONG.

For the record there was NO POLITICALLY CORRECT movement in fascist 1930s Germany,, at all. If you'd like to equate tghis to the government demanding you think a certain way, again, they're not, and for a matter of your education, no one is being arrested for using descriptive words that people don't like.

And no one WILL BE.

You people that like to equate things in this country to 1930s germany really are one of the more ignorant subsets of the internet community, and that is saying something.

recognize that if it WERE anything close to 1930s FASCIST Germany, your comment would have seen you arrested before i could write this reply, and then directly sent off to labor camp to work until you died. No trial, no chance. disappear and goodbye.

Jumbo would report you to the government, who would send goons to your house.. because if he didn't, they would come to his house after they came to yours.

You're simply wrong. I won't pursue it more because it will majorly derail the thread, which as a topic has absolutely nothing to do with or in no way resembles fascist 1930s Germany.

~Bang

 

PC is more of a communist thing, than a fascist thing.  But as a student of history, you have to realize that the fascists didn't come to power and immediately start carting people off to death camps.  Soon after Hitler's appointment to the Chancellory, they started by laying the groundwork for the later atrocities.  Things like banning homeschooling, inserting their fellow travellers into civic organisations, etc.  It was called gleichschaltung.  They ALSO made rules about proper speech, I can't recall the exact acts. These changes eventually culminated in the Nuremburg laws, the disenfranchisement of Jews and other 'undesirables', and Kristallnacht, which was really the beginning of the Shoah. 

 

Important to their consolidation of power was the Enabling Act, which gave Hitler and his cronies the ability to bypass the Reichstag (Parliament) in passing laws.  Once they got that, the Weimar constitution was done.  And they did it with a huge majority in parliament.

 

The point is fascism didn't start as textbook fascism. PC is a means to an end, that of controlling the thoughts of the proles (us).  Notice that socialism is never for the socialist, but for the populace (they never practice what they preach)- neither fascism for the fascist.  The elites always fail to live by the rules they set for the commoners.  That's why a truly egalitarian/equal society, so long as its run by men (and women), is impossible. 

 

The totalitarian impulse is not a precinct of any one party or ideology (communists and fascists were sibling rivals, both had a lot to owe to Marx- Goebbels was explicit in that on several occasions).  Power is the common denominator, and people with power are invariably corrupted.  Thus the US Constitution, which is to this day the best we've come up with so far to rein in these impulses.  In our society, the impulse is played out in our societal 'leaders' and opinion-formers controlling our speech.  What they deem 'wrong' and offensive becomes a sin, which the society (and later the State) will punish as they see fit. Freeze the target, polarize it, discredit it, destroy it.  Once they take down our team's nickname (regardless of how you or I feel about it), they'll move on to something else that draws their ire, and they will work with the 'simple' stuff first (team nicknames, labels for groups, frowning on expressions of opinion or values that fall outside their views).  Eventially, the busybodies will obtain enough power where they can use the apparatus of the State to silence individuals, and there is your link to later out-and-out fascism and the death camps.  It always starts out small first.

 

But I'm probably exagerating.  It's just a football team's admittedly offensive (to some) nickname.  They aren't touching anything that matters.  We all know slippery slopes don't exist, right?

 

RIght?

 

HTTR

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Far be it from me to tell any person or group how to feel...but...I am aghast that the Oneidas are still pushing this. They seem to think they are speaking for all Native Americans.

I guess someone has to speak up for the Huron, Erie and the Algonquin- especially since the Oneidas themselves, as a member of the Iroquois Confederacy decimated those tribes and others from the face of the earth during the Beaver Wars. If I correctly remember it was over $/fur trade. (If History class served me well- I could be wrong.) They were supposed to have been brutal.

Crying "racism" and assuring the media that they have the best interests in mind of all Native Americans just seems to me like a odd position for the Oneidas to take- considering the past.

Sounds like you have the basic story right.

Of course, we don't want people to remember when we slaughtered people we now claim to speak for. Doesn't work for us, ya know?

Anyway- back to the redskins name and how it affects our mental health....

http://www.fofweb.com/History/MainPrintPage.asp?iPin=EWAR0206&DataType=AmericanHistory&WinType=Free

Edited by grego

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Far be it from me to tell any person or group how to feel...but...I am aghast that the Oneidas are still pushing this. They seem to think they are speaking for all Native Americans.

 

I guess someone has to speak up for the Huron, Erie and the Algonquin- especially since the Oneidas themselves, as a member of the Iroquois Confederacy decimated those tribes and others from the face of the earth during the Beaver Wars. If I correctly remember it was over $/fur trade. (If History class served me well- I could be wrong.) They were supposed to have been brutal.

 

Crying "racism" and assuring the media that they have the best interests in mind of all Native Americans just seems to me like a odd position for the Oneidas to take- considering the past.

The Oneida tribe is a group of money grabbing opportunists. They run Turning Stone casino in ny. They have repeatedly tried to sue the farms around the area of the casino for their land to expand their casino. This tribe has zero credibility in this issue. The only reason they are taking it up us because they are looking to keep their names in the media. The more I read about them, the less respect I have for them. They remind me of the Westboro freaks. Both just need to go away.

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The Oneida tribe is a group of money grabbing opportunists. They run Turning Stone casino in ny. They have repeatedly tried to sue the farms around the area of the casino for their land to expand their casino. This tribe has zero credibility in this issue. The only reason they are taking it up us because they are looking to keep their names in the media. The more I read about them, the less respect I have for them. They remind me of the Westboro freaks. Both just need to go away.

If anyone hasnt realized by now that this is either about 1) extremist nut jobs with a cause, or, 2) money (when is it not about money) you need to open your eyes.

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@thatdanstewart 9:52 AM

The Washington Redskins are to change their name, due to negative associations. From now on, they will be known as the "Maryland Redskins"

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That turd UnWise Mike is taking credit for the meeting between the NFL and the lawyer for the New York Oneida tribe in November.

Wise claims he's a member if the "World Tribe" which does what's right.

Toolbag.

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That turd UnWise Mike is taking credit for the meeting between the NFL and the lawyer for the New York Oneida tribe in November.

Wise claims he's a member if the "World Tribe" which does what's right.

Toolbag.

 

What the hell happened to that dude? Has he always been like this, or did he fall down the stairs and crack his head, making what issues he already had, worse?

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cnn doing a 5 minute segment on the name change....

jesus ****ING christ....

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I think what happens is the NFL will give them their meeting to pay lip service and then simply quote the positive usage of the name with the team and the Annenberg poll as Snyder's lawyer has, and then show the ridiculous, extremist aspects of Oneida nation and others and how they are in the minority. The NFL gets to say it listened, and then shows the people on the name change side as a minority and as loonies, which should drop it for the most part. 

 

Even though Mara is a piece of crap the NFL owners and Goodell typically protect each other from outsiders. Snyder simply has to point out what his lawyers have, and also point out that Oneida and others have said Redskins is only the start so other teams are in danger if the NFL caves (though Buffalo won't be on their list because in order to be extremist it requires ignorance of history).

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this website has over 100 different designs and i'm afraid this thing is gaining alot of steam. This name isn't going to change anytime soon and Danny Boy will take it to court and fight it non-stop. He is either going to get the help of the other sports leagues otherwise they are all going down together. Danny Boy isn't letting just the skins name just get changed

http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/community-contest-rebrand-washington-redskins-253079?entriespage=6#contest-header

Griffins?! Holy **** that might be the best argument for not changing the name I've seen yet. Renegades is also crap, but less surprising. I like Warriors but I'd rather not have modern soldiers on it and tie the team to the military too directly. History is filled with crazy looking fighters, I'm sure one of them would look cool on a logo. Ok fine I'm a bit of a fantasy book nerd and some angry logo invoking a bloody sword fight would thrill me. I've admitted it so let the healing begin.

This is assuming the name change is forced on the team. Until then, and I do feel its a matter of time at this point, I will wear my redskins gear proudly.

Edited by Destino

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@thatdanstewart 9:52 AM

The Washington Redskins are to change their name, due to negative associations. From now on, they will be known as the "Maryland Redskins"

That's from bad to worse. NoVA Redskins!

Zoony would lose his mind and scribble rants about government blood suckers all over his padded walls.

Wise claims he's a member if the "World Tribe" which does what's right.

That really is nauseating. If I didn't know who Wise was I'd think it was someone trolling but nope, he's self righteous enough to say something that ridiculous and mean it.

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The Oneida tribe is a group of money grabbing opportunists. They run Turning Stone casino in ny. They have repeatedly tried to sue the farms around the area of the casino for their land to expand their casino. This tribe has zero credibility in this issue. The only reason they are taking it up us because they are looking to keep their names in the media. The more I read about them, the less respect I have for them. They remind me of the Westboro freaks. Both just need to go away.

Well, it may be up to ES and other fan websites to expose their "hypocrisy for hire" mentality. 

And to youngchew's point, almost every MSNBC show had a segment on the name change yesterday.  Most irritating.  That's definitely NOT the political news everyone needs.

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If American Indians really are not offended by the team's nickname, then they need to stand up and say so -- and make as much noise as the Oneida Tribe is at the moment.  Otherwise, I fear that the NFL's commish and its most influential owners will push Snyder to change the name, just to make the controversy go away.  Perhaps Snyder could find a tribe that likes the nickname & logo and would be willing to allow their tribe's name to be used as a replacement nickname, kinda like the arrangement between FSU and the Seminole Tribe.

 

It pains me to say this, but these P.C. douchenozzles have started to wear me down.  I'm tired of writing e-mails to media people and explaining the actual history of the word "redskin," knowing that most of these folks will either discard or disregard such correspondence.  I know that's what the P.C. Policemen want: for those who oppose them to relent.  But this is getting so old and tedious.

 

At this point, I'm willing to have the team renamed "the Warriors" and have a pic of George Washington slapped on the helmets.  To be specific, the Indian head image could be replaced with a profile picture of George Washington (who is the namesake of the city, after all, meaning we'd become "George Washington's Revolutionary Warriors" ) and the feathers on the side of the dreamcatcher could be replaced with an 18th-century-style sabre.  Other than that, keep the current uniforms exactly as they are.  Boom.  Done.

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Those poor savages had no idea.

It's up to us to continue to civilize them until they're as perfect as we are.

The hubris.

~Bang

 

I am getting so sick of this issue--mostly because the name-change crowds arguments are getting more and more absurd--especially in light of more native americans saying they don't care about the name. It's amazing how this has been spun, with the larger majority not getting a ounce of air time.

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I hate to say it but the day they change the name is likely my last as an NFL fan.

 

I have no interest in watching a team called the Washington Bash, or Warriors or Senators or Braves... thats all bush league crap.

 

I have been a fan for 40+ years and the team will always be the Redskins, no matter what writers are demanding. When the Redskins go, so will I.

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