WE: After school shooting in Connecticut, Piers Morgan blasts America’s ‘gun madness’

[Burgold]

It doesn't take wholly getting rid of the 2nd amendment IMO because of the "well regulated milita" part of the clause opens up avenues for redefining it's meaning. Right now it's been taken to mean "guns are fine for recreation" and has been used to support very loose gun laws and wide-scale armament of the population. I don't think that's going to last.

Yeah, what does "a well regulated militia" have to do with being a collector which is so often cited as the reason for gun ownership.

[Koolblue13]

Religious folk have updated their interpretation of the bible and they take that **** way too serious. No eating shrimp, working on Sundays, etc. We can update our constitution a little.

[alexey]

...

Police Chief Gerald Pickering said 62-year-old William Spengler, who served 17 years in prison for the 1980 hammer slaying of his grandmother, armed himself with a revolver, a shotgun and a military-style rifle before he set his house afire to lure first responders into a death trap before dawn on Christmas Eve.

Two firefighters were shot dead and two others are hospitalized in stable condition. Spengler killed himself as seven houses burned around him Monday on a narrow spit of land along Lake Ontario.

One of the guns recovered was a military-style .223-caliber semiautomatic Bushmaster rifle with flash suppression, the same make and caliber weapon used in the elementary school massacre in Newtown, Conn., Pickering said.

The chief said police believe the firefighters were hit with shots from the rifle given the distance but the investigation was incomplete.

..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/officials-ny-gunman-led-quiet-life-before-killing-2-firefighters-injuring-2-others-in-ambush/2012/12/25/0c468d50-4e66-11e2-835b-02f92c0daa43_story.html

[Bang]

How did he get such weapons, I wonder?

~Bang

[Stadium-Armory]

Maybe we should allow gun ownership provided you participate in state run militias. Once a month maneuvers and training. Psychological and physical testing. Only then can you own a gun.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Maybe we should allow gun ownership provided you participate in state run militias. Once a month maneuvers and training. Psychological and physical testing. Only then can you own a gun.

The Right will point to their interpretation that the 2nd Amendment does not limit the right of gun ownership to those who participate in militias, although they have yet to explain why the Founding Fathers would write an incomplete clause within the 2nd.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State...." what this refers to as far as a Right recognized is completely unclear unless it points to the right to bear arms. They however will disagree and suggest that they wrote a statement that has nothing to do with rest of the sentence it is in....which is absurd.

[twa]

what does SCOTUS say?

durn activist judges

[AsburySkinsFan]

what does SCOTUS say?

durn activist judges

SCOTUS screws up too....case in point Citizens United, so unless you're going to argue forthr inerrancy of the High Court then I'll consider your argument to be fairly pointless.

[skinsmarydu]

SCOTUS screws up too....case in point Citizens United, so unless you're going to argue forthr inerrancy of the High Court then I'll consider your argument to be fairly pointless.

Testify!

[twa]

Pointless would be ignoring their rulings, they have the power to err

[skinsmarydu]

And that shouldn't be allowed to happen. They're appointed to prevent error from hurting peoples' lives, properties, and rights. Like the one you have to kee

nevermind

[Going Commando]

Maybe we should allow gun ownership provided you participate in state run militias. Once a month maneuvers and training. Psychological and physical testing. Only then can you own a gun.

That's not the craziest thing I've ever heard. It's basically a literal interpretation of the second amendment.

[PeterMP]

I see the inability of those opposed to arming teachers or guards to provide evidence it endangers students.

the long history of private schools security as well as the history at public schools since Bill Clinton signed a bill boosting cops in schools seems on the surface evidence the fear of guns in the right hands is unfounded.

You've never heard of a gun going off by accident or somebody being shot by somebody who didn't think their were "real" bullets in the gun:'

These things happen in schools too:

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2009/05/07/Gun-teacher-accidentally-shot-student/UPI-71011241732079/

Or how about when somebody is intentionally shot that probably didn't need to be shot:

http://maboulette.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/texas-police-kill-8th-grader-carrying-pellet-gun/

Cops shoot (3 times) and kill eighth grader at school with a pellet gun.

The idea that accidents and other bad scenarios don't happen shouldn't have to be proven or even evidence found.

To suggest they won't or can't happen is just stupidity.

My sister-in-law was telling a story tonight about when her daughter was in 3rd grade a kid took a gun to school. Wasn't loaded wasn't trying to hurt anybody, but had been in an argument with his friend about what kind of gun his dad had. He took it to school to show his friend that he was wrong and his dad did have the kind of gun he had said he was.

I'm sorry, but if you have somebody armed at the school in the mind set they are there to prevent school shootings the odds of that kid ending up dead go up.

[twa]

I'm sorry, but if you have somebody armed at the school in the mind set they are there to prevent school shootings the odds of that kid ending up dead go up.

guns in general do not just go off(nor is there a need to clean or handle them around students w/o a clear threat),nor should there be any question in a screened,trained teachers mind if it has real bullets

why do you think the odds improve when they call the cops?

your cops example seems to counter that.(and ignore the kids repeated refusal to drop the weapon )

But I agree most armed teachers should be tasked with no more than covering a locked door, exceptions are of course available, but pure defence should be the default role

[AsburySkinsFan]

Pointless would be ignoring their rulings, they have the power to err

"The power to err" what are we just making crp up now? The power to err is for lower courts who are allowed to get it wrong by not making a decision, because there is a higher court above them, and it is about exeeding their jurisdiction...the jurisdiction of SCOTUS is the whole US.

[DCranon21]

Now you have teachers bringing in loaded pistols even though she has a conceal carry permit. She violated those terms bringing it to school and it's unlawful to bring a weapon on school premises.

Fear over the Newtown school shooting prompted a Minnesota teacher to bring a loaded gun to school last week, forcing a school lockdown. The unnamed teacher, a female in her 50s, has been placed on administrative leave from Seward Montessori School in Minneapolis.

"This is the first case like this I've ever heard of," Minneapolis police Sgt. Bill Palmer told KMSP. "In this day in age in this week, handguns in schools are of great concern to everyone."

Acting on a tip from a staff member, the school principal alerted the school resource officer, who confiscated the gun from the teacher, in her 21st year of employment at the school. The loaded .357 Magnum handgun was in the educator's locker in the teacher's lounge, according to the Star Tribune. School officials confirm that no students or staff were harmed or injured.

While the teacher was not arrested, she could face misdemeanor charges for violating conditions of her Minnesota conceal carry permit, which prohibits firearms in schools without written permission from a principal or school official.

Parents were notified of the incident by phone.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/25/teacher-brings-loaded-gun_n_2362989.html

I know this has been beaten up so many times and I've said it plenty of times, we can't have teachers carrying loaded weapons with children around. That's not going to do it and that is not a solution.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Now you have teachers bringing in loaded pistols even though she has a conceal carry permit. She violated those terms bringing it to school and it's unlawful to bring a weapon on school premises.

I know this has been beaten up so many times and I've said it plenty of times, we can't have teachers carrying loaded weapons with children around. That's not going to do it and that is not a solution.

So #1 she violates the terms of her concealed carry by bringing a .357 to school, and then she leaves it in her locker in the teacher's lounge? What sense does that make?

[MattFancy]

Religious folk have updated their interpretation of the bible and they take that **** way too serious. No eating shrimp, working on Sundays, etc. We can update our constitution a little.

Thomas Jefferson agrees: “I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”

[AsburySkinsFan]

Thomas Jefferson agrees: “I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”

Yeah, but he was a Librawl!

BTW, my favorite part of our new found adoration of all things Founing Fathers related is the absolute cherry picking of the things they said and the blatant ignoring of the things that those patriotic saints said that completely crush our ideas about them.

[twa]

"The power to err" what are we just making crp up now? .

I know you don't think them infallible do you?

I'm kinda aware of their jurisdiction .

[AsburySkinsFan]

I know you don't think them infallible do you?

The power to err is about passing a case to a higher court in order to avoid a jurisdictional breech....this doesn't have to do with their infallibility.

I'm kinda aware of their jurisdiction .

So what higher court is there for SCOTUS to pass a ruling up to in order for the "power to err" to be applicable?

[twa]

The power to err is about passing a case to a higher court in order to avoid a jurisdictional breech....this doesn't have to do with their infallibility.

Where did you come up with that strict definition?

their power to err is moderated by the other branches, but most certainly exists

[Thiebear]

Thomas Jefferson agrees: “I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”

Yeah, but he was a Librawl!

BTW, my favorite part of our new found adoration of all things Foudning Fathers related is the absolute cherry picking of the things they said and the blatant ignoring of the things that those patriotic saints said that completely crush our ideas about them.

I believe the founding documents/writers have been quoted since the early 1800's and not that "new found".

Do i have to list every one of your sayings in this thread or the entire forum i disagree with since you joined Jan 2006 or can i use the ones i find to be enlightening and pertinent to conversation at hand.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I believe the founding documents/writers have been quoted since the early 1800's and not that "new found".

Do i have to list every one of your sayings in this thread or the entire forum i disagree with since you joined Jan 2006 or can i use the ones i find to be enlightening and pertinent to conversation at hand.

It is helpful to do that if you think you found something I said that proves your point while ignoring the majority of statements that disagree with that assertion. If you find such a quote it is more likely that it is the either misunderstood or not clearly stated. We call citing such quotes "proof-texting" because they ignore everythin else that was said by the person and it is done to give a false impression of the speaker.

[China]

Newspaper Publishes Gun Owners’ Names and Addresses

A newspaper in New York has received a wave of criticism from its readers after publishing the names and addresses of all of the individuals with handgun or pistol permits in its coverage area.

Hundreds of residents in New York’s Westchester and Rockland counties were surprised to find their names and addresses listed on a map posted by The Journal News on Sunday. Users can click any dot on the map to see which of their neighbors has a permit for a gun.

The map sparked more than 500 comments from readers within a day of its appearance on the website, many of them voicing outrage at the paper’s decision to make the information public.

“This is CRAZY!! why in the world would you post every licensed gun owner information?? What do you hope to accomplish by doing this. This is the type of thing you do for sex offenders not law abiding gun owners. What next? should i hang a flag outside my house that says I own a gun? I am canceling my subscription with your paper today!!!” said commenter Curtis Maenza.

Click on the link for the full article