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Per Schefter & PFT: NFL salary cap debacle continues---updates include NFLPA filing collusion lawsuits---links and discussion current--MET

sableholic

By sableholic
in The Stadium

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justice98

justice98

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Not really cheaper in the long run given the fact that he doesn't satisfy our #1 receiver need. Since everyone is screaming for a big tall receiver like Bowe it would've been smarter to pay a little more for Jackson. Our taller receiver is Hankerson and he's what? 6"3.

Hankerson's actually bigger than Bowe. 6'3"s plenty big, Hank just isn't all that good. There aren't a lot of 6'5" WRs out there that can actually play outside of Calvin Johnson and Vincent Jackson.

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CommDownMan

CommDownMan

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We really got screwed in this deal but its a blessing in disguise. Give me more Alfred Morris types and less Albert Haynesworths every day of the week. The days of Danny whipping out the checkbook are over. Fiscal responsibility is in effect in DC for the first time in our history.

edit: Hopefully they just go after young guys similar to the last few years and resign our own. It would be really nice to get that money back, even if partial.

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DC9

DC9

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I'm almost willing to bet a full paycheck that we will not get Ryan Clady. That is a pipe dream, fellas. He's not taking a discount to come to Washington, DC to play with Shanahan... especially if he wins a Super Bowl this year.

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asacks

asacks

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I'm almost willing to bet a full paycheck that we will not get Ryan Clady. That is a pipe dream, fellas. He's not taking a discount to come to Washington, DC to play with Shanahan... especially if he wins a Super Bowl this year.

Seriously, Ryan Clady is a pro-bowl LT. We already have one of those on the team, there is no way we can or should have two. We need a solid RT, not a franchise LT, buying guys like this is how you kill your cap long term. i'd love to have him, but all this discussion about him is insane. Do we even know that the Broncos are not going to franchise him, and then, even if they didn't, why wouldn't a team without a star LT pay way more than we would for a RT? No chance this happens.

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HOF44

HOF44

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I'm not gonna believe anything about getting any money back until I hear the mechanism they are using to get it overturned. We tried through the league, an arbitor, and it was refused, we were hoping the NFLPA suit might lead to something promising and it was dismissed. How exactly are they fighting this??????

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2cents

2cents

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Not really cheaper in the long run given the fact that he doesn't satisfy our #1 receiver need. Since everyone is screaming for a big tall receiver like Bowe it would've been smarter to pay a little more for Jackson. Our taller receiver is Hankerson and he's what? 6"3.

Garcon seems like a good #1 in this system, notice the difference he made in the offense. And just because people on the board say we need a tall reciever doesn't mean we need one.

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zoony

zoony

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Can we leave this thread to updates on the salary cap and take free agency talks elsewhere. You hijacked the thread enough. I don't want to keep checking here only to so who you think we should sign in free agency.

Thanks.

This is great advice gang

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2cents

2cents

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I'm not gonna believe anything about getting any money back until I hear the mechanism they are using to get it overturned. We tried through the league, an arbitor, and it was refused, we were hoping the NFLPA suit might lead to something promising and it was dismissed. How exactly are they fighting this??????

Well the NFL admitted the collusion. When you are dealing with a labor union, collusion to keep salaries down is illegal. You can't imagine factory workers vs factory owners when all the owners get together and decide they are all going to pay just minimum wage so they can save money. Not to mention the NFL selectively punished teams with their made up rules....remember, the Bears signed Peppers, but since they put all the money in the first year, it was ok, but with us they didn't like us moving money from one year to another. Remember, there was "no cap" that year according to the CBA...we could do what we wanted and did. I need to locate and post the laws from my books, but don't have time (degrees in Human Resources and have done some research here) Basically, the NFL broke the law, and even though they can make a case, they want to keep it out of court so no discovery for a suit takes place, because no major organization wants to show all their books to everyone.....you don't want people to see all of your dealings. I think our strategy is to keep threatening to take this to court and the NFL will at least partially back down out of fear of discovery. Bruce Allen went to UVA law school IIRC and specialized in labor law, so he knows what he is doing. Gonna be interesting.

As for your second part....the arbitrator is paid by the league and is not impartial, the NFLPA signed off on it, which they shouldn't have, but we still have a case because we were fined for action that was legal. The question is, whether or not the parties can agree to say the fine against us was ok even though it was illegal. Some lawyers/judges say no because you can't do something such as sign an agreement with someone to let them rob your house....illegal is still illegal, but some say it is a waiving of your rights and it is ok. The Skins are basically saying, we didn't agree to this "gentlemen"s' agreement because it was illegal, so we can't be held accountable for what the NFL and NFLPA agreed to. Also throw in the fact that the NFL approved the contract changes we made and then said two years later that they were wrong. That is wrong on its face, and opens up the door that we were punished for breaking the code that was illegal to begin with.

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HOF44

HOF44

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Well the NFL admitted the collusion. When you are dealing with a labor union, collusion to keep salaries down is illegal. Bruce Allen went to UVA law school IIRC and specialized in labor law, so he knows what he is doing. Gonna be interesting.

While from the NFLPA standpoint you are correct because they agreed to waive previous violations Judge Doty just threw their case out. Our problem is we are part of the NFL and I don't think we have standing to sue them (us) for collusion. I agree the NFL did wrong I just don't know how to get it in front of a body that could do anything about it for a hearing. What is the path you take to do that???

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2cents

2cents

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While from the NFLPA standpoint you are correct because they agreed to waive previous violations Judge Doty just threw their case out. Our problem is we are part of the NFL and I don't think we have standing to sue them (us) for collusion. I agree the NFL did wrong I just don't know how to get it in front of a body that could do anything about it for a hearing. What is the path you take to do that???

I'm not sure, but we may try the "whistle blower" route....we are in a corporation and we see wrong being done by the company so we are turning them into the court. The National Labor Relations Board is a possibility as well. I'm still looking around to find options, but there is always a way. Hell, if I can sue McDs because they sell me hot coffee and I'm stupid and carry it between my legs in a car and it is their fault not mine because I'm a dumbass then anything is possible.

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SonnyandSam

SonnyandSam

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The arbitrator just ruled that he had no jurisdiction over the dispute between the Redskins/Cowboys and the League. Skins have to decide whether they want to go the Al Davis route and sue their fellow owners.

I spoke with the guy who represented the Redskins and Cowboys in the arbitration hearing. They were fine with the arbitrator. They considered him a fair and impartial arbitrator who is very well respected in the legal profession. So lets not go blaming the arbitrator. Skins knew going the arbitration route would be hit or miss.

Same with the players union. They agreed by contract (the new CBA) to wave (I forget the legal term right now) any challenges under the previous CBA. Never really had a chance. They tried to argue they did not know about the conspiracy until after the new CBA was signed or they would not have waived all their rights to such issues. NFL counsel outsmarted the players counsel on that one.

So to date, the Redskins and players union have lost on technicalities and not the merits of their case against the league.

The Redskins/Cowboys were trying to avoid suing the league. Still have to decide whether the threat of a lawsuit or an actual lawsuit is worth the hate that will be generated. This is my opinion not that of my friend or the Redskins. He would not discuss the next possible options they have.

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HOF44

HOF44

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The arbitrator just ruled that he had no jurisdiction over the dispute between the Redskins/Cowboys and the League. Skins have to decide whether they want to go the Al Davis route and sue their fellow owners.

The Redskins/Cowboys were trying to avoid suing the league. Still have to decide whether the threat of a lawsuit or an actual lawsuit is worth the hate that will be generated. This is my opinion not that of my friend or the Redskins. He would not discuss the next possible options they have.

That's what we call the nuclear option. Things could spin wildly out of control and end up with the Skins getting penalized too. Not to mention the hate from the other owners. However it seems the owners with the power don't care for us now so what would be different? Maybe Danny's loose cannon persona will scare the NFL into settling things before it gets to the Federal Court point. The crazier they think he is the better for us.

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TSO

TSO

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That's what we call the nuclear option. Things could spin wildly out of control and end up with the Skins getting penalized too. Not to mention the hate from the other owners. However it seems the owners with the power don't care for us now so what would be different? Maybe Danny's loose cannon persona will scare the NFL into settling things before it gets to the Federal Court point. The crazier they think he is the better for us.

Union has already stated the Redskins and Cowboys are exempt from their lawsuit, so no penalty on that front. The hate from the owners is already there by virtue of being penalized that cap money and them then agreeing to split it between them, so screw them they're already angry. Now they need to feel our anger.

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HOF44

HOF44

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Union has already stated the Redskins and Cowboys are exempt from their lawsuit, so no penalty on that front. The hate from the owners is already there by virtue of being penalized that cap money and them then agreeing to split it between them, so screw them they're already angry. Now they need to feel our anger.

This would be a separate action from the NFLPA(there's was already dismissed). We would essentially be trying to get the Feds to go after the NFL for collusion and would be providing the evidence. With us being a part of the NFL there is really no predicting if we would be subject to penalties also(the NFLPA has no say in what the Feds decide to do). Plus it could end up with a voiding of the labor agreement and true free agency or many other points in between where we are now and that. The real point is once we start who knows what will happen. That's why the NFL may want it all to just go away.

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nimblehippo

nimblehippo

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Has anyone suggested going after the teams who were way under during that season - if we got penalized in the interests of competition - could we not say we're being unfairly treated, as the teams that didn't have a high enough salary number weren't being competitive by having such low salaries?

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sjinhan

sjinhan

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That's what we call the nuclear option. Things could spin wildly out of control and end up with the Skins getting penalized too. Not to mention the hate from the other owners. However it seems the owners with the power don't care for us now so what would be different? Maybe Danny's loose cannon persona will scare the NFL into settling things before it gets to the Federal Court point. The crazier they think he is the better for us.

well for me the most interesting part of this whole story... if we do go through with the "nuclear option" and the NFL looses its grip on the salary cap and such... what two teams are going to be the biggest winners of the free for all league ala MLB? Redskins and Cowboys...

I say just keep pushing the topic until the leagues decides its not worth it to keep fighting back...

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HOF44

HOF44

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Has anyone suggested going after the teams who were way under during that season - if we got penalized in the interests of competition - could we not say we're being unfairly treated, as the teams that didn't have a high enough salary number weren't being competitive by having such low salaries?

What avenue do you take to go after them? The NFL is really the only route. Being treated unfairly is not illegal.

---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 03:35 PM ----------

I say just keep pushing the topic until the leagues decides its not worth it to keep fighting back...

I suspect that's the route we are going. Does the NFL blink? Does Danny have the fortitude to file the case?? Time will tell.

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2cents

2cents

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This would be a separate action from the NFLPA(there's was already dismissed). We would essentially be trying to get the Feds to go after the NFL for collusion and would be providing the evidence. With us being a part of the NFL there is really no predicting if we would be subject to penalties also(the NFLPA has no say in what the Feds decide to do). Plus it could end up with a voiding of the labor agreement and true free agency or many other points in between where we are now and that. The real point is once we start who knows what will happen. That's why the NFL may want it all to just go away.

I strongly believe if we push, we win. The NFL will do anything to avoid discovery in this case. They are trying to get us to blink, but I don't think we will.

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