It's a passing league, but...

[Bang]

Your opponent throws for 462 yards and 4tds and that's considered stopping the pass?

Umm...ok...

Keep those eyes rolling...not only is that somehow stopping the pass, ( "Drew Brees could not pass".. yet he completed 40 passes for more than 400 yards and 4 scores. ) and the Redskins pass defense which supposedly sucks finished 12th this year, which is better than all but 4 of the playoff teams.. gave up fewer TD passes than all but 3 of the playoff teams.

The headline reads that Alex Smith "outdueled" Drew Brees, even though Brees completed nearly 20 more passes for almost 200 more yards..

The 49ers outrushed the Saints 143 - 38. A 105 yard difference. Frank Gore had nearly a 7 yard per carry average.

But in the eyes of the all-too typical fan, the big passes are all that matters. There is no indication shown that the kind of rushing game the Niners were bringing to the Saints had any play at all in how Alex Smith was able to find those open passes when he did throw, which he did 21 fewer times than Brees.

Sometimes I wonder if there isn't some brand of TV that is popular in this area that doesn't show things the way they really are. It's the only explanation as to how someone could watch the game yesterday and be so far off in the assessment of what happened.

I won't go so far as Burgold to say that the old recipe of a stout run game and a tough defense will get you to the Super Bowl... the game has changed,, but it still matters, and it still matters greatly.

~Bang

[GWinSkins83]

Keep those eyes rolling...not only is that somehow stopping the pass, ( "Drew Brees could not pass".. yet he completed 40 passes for more than 400 yards and 4 scores. ) and the Redskins pass defense which supposedly sucks finished 12th this year, which is better than all but 4 of the playoff teams.. gave up fewer TD passes than all but 3 of the playoff teams.

The headline reads that Alex Smith "outdueled" Drew Brees, even though Brees completed nearly 20 more passes for almost 200 more yards..

The 49ers outrushed the Saints 143 - 38. A 105 yard difference. Frank Gore had nearly a 7 yard per carry average.

But in the eyes of the all-too typical fan, the big passes are all that matters. There is no indication shown that the kind of rushing game the Niners were bringing to the Saints had any play at all in how Alex Smith was able to find those open passes when he did throw, which he did 21 fewer times than Brees.

Sometimes I wonder if there isn't some brand of TV that is popular in this area that doesn't show things the way they really are. It's the only explanation as to how someone could watch the game yesterday and be so far off in the assessment of what happened.

I won't go so far as Burgold to say that the old recipe of a stout run game and a tough defense will get you to the Super Bowl... the game has changed,, but it still matters, and it still matters greatly.

~Bang

I agree with you the 49ers dominated the line of scrimage and that was about 40% of the success. 30% was 49ers man coverage. The other 30% was Alex Smith. He made clutch throws in the most important time in the game. I think he might have turnt the corner but time will tell.

[Bang]

No denying Smith had a great game,, his best yet.

He was spectacular. VERY accurate.

And his run,,, man, whoever called that play deserves a medal.

~Bang

[8181]

Stopped was maybe a strong word.

But they did mess up their passing game. Yards and TDs are great, but the turnovers that were committed by Drew Brees himself and the sacks he took were well beyond what they're used to

The fact they were still in the game is a testament to how important the passing game is and stopping it (or slowing it down)

Drew Brees commited more turnovers than average

Sacked more than average

Lower YPA

Lower Completion Percentage

More INT or turnovers

Lower QBR

If you watched the game, you knwo Drew Brees did not look like Drew Brees

That's why the 49ers won, because they were able to stop the pass (or slow the pass since you guys havea problem with the word)

[Darkstarr]

Lest we forget, Alex Smith straight up OUTPLAYED Drew Brees, and they won that game making big passing plays for the most part. The defense played good but not well enough to stop Drew Brees, and the running game wasn't dominant. The difference was the 5 TOs, and Alex Smith.

And yet nodody says the defense had just as much to do with the win as Alex Smith. How many times did the defense early on set the O up with great field position. What about the TE who had a monster game does he not get the credit also for the big plays he made. Bottem line is it was a TEAM effort. Without the defense Knocking thomas out of the game and getting those turnovers the 49'rs do not win. Both deserve equal credit.

---------- Post added January-15th-2012 at 11:53 AM ----------

I agree with you the 49ers dominated the line of scrimage and that was about 40% of the success. 30% was 49ers man coverage. The other 30% was Alex Smith. He made clutch throws in the most important time in the game. I think he might have turnt the corner but time will tell.

Not to mention the great special teams play the 49r's had all year. The TO's they created on special teams has to get a %of importance.

[MartinC]

Hey, I included opportunistic defense

Armchair,

The obvious flaw to that thinking was Marino and Elway. Two of the absolute best qbs ever. Marino never got there. Elway got there and failed and failed and failed... and never won it until he was no longer Elway, but a good team and a running game was built around him.

Mind you, it can be true that if you get that exception to the rule player... then the normal rules don't count. Brady does seem to deny the football rules of probability sometimes. Has he had a running game worth spit ever?

Marino did get to the Super Bowl in 1984 but his Dolphins lost to Montanas 49ers. He never got back though so your point stands - as good a QB as Marino was he never had a defense to hold up that end of the deal.

On the Pats running game - they use short passes on drags to Welker, bubble screens to backs etc to replace run calls. It's the same effect though, calls on very high percentage throws designed to get 4-6 yards on early downs and keep them out of 3rd and long.

[GWinSkins83]

And yet nodody says the defense had just as much to do with the win as Alex Smith. How many times did the defense early on set the O up with great field position. What about the TE who had a monster game does he not get the credit also for the big plays he made. Bottem line is it was a TEAM effort. Without the defense Knocking thomas out of the game and getting those turnovers the 49'rs do not win. Both deserve equal credit.

---------- Post added January-15th-2012 at 11:53 AM ----------

Not to mention the great special teams play the 49r's had all year. The TO's they created on special teams has to get a %of importance.

yeah you right so I'll take 10% from the lines and give the special team 20% since as the whole 49er team gave 110% in that game.

[HBnotBlades]

Is everyone forgetting that the Saints turned the ball over 5 times? The 49ers didn't win because of their running game or their passing game, they won because the Saints committed five turnovers. Five. Nobody wins when they are -4 in turnover differential.

I think it says a lot about how dominant the Saints offense is if they can turn the ball over five times and still nearly win against a team that went 13-3 in the regular season.

[KDawg]

Is everyone forgetting that the Saints turned the ball over 5 times? The 49ers didn't win because of their running game or their passing game, they won because the Saints committed five turnovers. Five. Nobody wins when they are -4 in turnover differential.

I think it says a lot about how dominant the Saints offense is if they can turn the ball over five times and still nearly win against a team that went 13-3 in the regular season.

Bingo. The Niners led the league in takeaways and fewest giveaways. There's the recipe for success in a nutshell.

[MartinC]

Is everyone forgetting that the Saints turned the ball over 5 times? The 49ers didn't win because of their running game or their passing game, they won because the Saints committed five turnovers. Five. Nobody wins when they are -4 in turnover differential.

I think it says a lot about how dominant the Saints offense is if they can turn the ball over five times and still nearly win against a team that went 13-3 in the regular season.

This is dead on - the 49ers lead the NFL in turnover differential with plus 28 while we were next to last with minus 14. That in a nutshell is why they are in the NFC Championship and we are talking about the draft and free agency.

[LadySkinsFan]

To get back to the OP title: yes, it is a passing league, and no buts about it when it comes to getting a quality QB for the Redskins.

[Bang]

Stopped was maybe a strong word.

But they did mess up their passing game. Yards and TDs are great, but the turnovers that were committed by Drew Brees himself and the sacks he took were well beyond what they're used to

The fact they were still in the game is a testament to how important the passing game is and stopping it (or slowing it down)

Drew Brees commited more turnovers than average

Sacked more than average

Lower YPA

Lower Completion Percentage

More INT or turnovers

Lower QBR

If you watched the game, you knwo Drew Brees did not look like Drew Brees

That's why the 49ers won, because they were able to stop the pass (or slow the pass since you guys havea problem with the word)

Brees was disrupted for sure.. I think it was because the Niners were so physical on his outlets,, his RBs.. other than Sproles breaking free for the one TD, most of the time when he caught a ball he got plastered. They crushed Thomas and put him out of the game, and that was a big loss. They took away his underneath game for the most part, and downfield were good on their man coverage.

~Bang

[Burgold]

One more one-dimensional team down... as good as Aaron Rogers is and has been, once again the more balanced team (with the better defense won) Pretty shocked that the Packers got the boot from a very mediocre Giants team that we beat twice, but it goes to show you that you need to be good at more than one thing when it comes to the playoffs.

It's a passing league, but you need more than that.

[grego]

brees and rodgers out of the playoffs. before the conference championship games.

done in my smith and manning (who is legitimately coming into his own, no question, as a top tier QB).

who woulda thought?

[Main-Maine]

No one is disputing that other parts of a football team needs to show up, but for the Redskins to even have a shot at getting to the playoffs they need a QB!

The packers din't just lose to the defense, but also to the great play by the QB. Manning converted so many 3rd and long it wasn't even funny, and those conversions kept Aron Rodger on the side line.

Our mediocre qbs wouldn't be able to bail us out of tough jams like what Aron Rdoger and Eli Manning did today. Our qb play would give those two QB more opportunities to put their teams further in the lead.

The redskins needs a QB to build around first! The redskins could then start to worry more about different parts of the team.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

The issue is not that QB is important, the problem is that they're unbalanced. Those are two completely different issues. It's an issue of gameplanning and teambuilding aside from the QB, not an issue of the emphasis on the QB.

A balanced Saints team (with a better d-coordinator than overrated G-Will) beats the Saints. Though I'm not digging this RB by committee they have going. It's one thing to have depth at the position, but you need one guy who stands out as a #1.

[Burgold]

Our mediocre qbs wouldn't be able to bail us out of tough jams like what Aron Rdoger and Eli Manning did today. Our qb play would give those two QB more opportunities to put their teams further in the lead.

The problem is not that our quarterbacks are mediocre. They are far below mediocre. Grossman probably earns a failing grade as a qb this year because of his inability to go a game without multiple turnovers and Beck in some respects was worse.

And this thread was borne of the fact that ESer after ESer said that the running game was irrelevent and that defense was irrelevent. That the only thing that mattered was having a top notch passer and that without that there was no hope no matter how good other elements of a team might be.

The failures of Brees, Roethlisburger, and now Rogers speaks directly to this ES mantra.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

And this thread was borne of the fact that ESer after ESer said that the running game was irrelevent and that defense was irrelevent. That the only thing that mattered was having a top notch passer and that without that there was no hope no matter how good other elements of a team might be.

The failures of Brees, Roethlisburger, and now Rogers speaks directly to this ES mantra.

I don't think I said they were irrelevant. I just would say that you can't win with mediocrity at QB, even with a great defense and run game. The fact is, Alex Smith did not play mediocre. He played excellent (and personally, I think they need to add some speed on the outside and let him spread it out a bit more, he's actually a pretty good QB now considering how bad their OL is but their fairly conservative offense doesn't let him put up volume passing numbers). Let's not forget that Eli Manning had 250 yards and 2 TDs in a single half of football, and had thrown for close to 5000 yards himself in the RS.

Essentially, you're using games where "above average qb + dominant defense" beat "superstar QB/passing game + crappy defense" and "borderline superstar QB + dominant pass rush" beat " superstar QB - dominant pass rush" to make the point that "mediocre QB + dominant run game + dominant defense > superstar QB with average to good everywhere else". There's no mediocre QB among the bunch.

How about this - the Texans dominated the trenches all day - the Ravens didn't have a sack all day, while Flacco got sacked 5 times. The Texans have a dominant RB and talent at the skill positions. And Yates is probably better than "bad", probably "solidly mediocre". Yet the Ravens won because Flacco was better than Yates, good enough to not turn the ball over and make some good plays against an elite defense.

All in all, this is another case of "emotions and personal bias towards a certain style of football" causing people to reach incorrect conclusions.

[Riggodrill44]

**How about this - the Texans dominated the trenches all day - the Ravens didn't have a sack all day, while Flacco got sacked 5 times. The Texans have a dominant RB and talent at the skill positions. And Yates is probably better than "bad", probably "solidly mediocre". Yet the Ravens won because Flacco was better than Yates, good enough to not turn the ball over and make some good plays against an elite defense.**

If Yates had not turned over the ball they would have won.Flacco is Jason Campbell clone...nothing more.

[JerseyGator]

What below 30 year old receiver not suspended for drugs is this messianic QB going to throw to? Both the Packers and Saints have more good receivers than all the teams in the NFC West combined. Saints have 3 pro-bowlers on the OL. What OL with the Skins not suspended for drugs is within even a country mile of the Pro Bowl? The got a decent one from the Ravens but he was projected to be a backup with them by most.

[Jericho]

I think its foolish to try and make broad sweeping statements based on one game (or in this case a weekend of games). But here's how's I'd interpret each game this weekend:

New England vs. Denver - Gross mismatch. Denver at least had home field advantage and a severely hobbled Pittsburgh (DL line went out with injury, no Clark, bad Ben) team the week before. It was still an impressive upset against the Steelers, but the Patriots showed what a real team could do against the Broncos, who still are a horribly flawed team (and one of the worst playoff teams in recent memory. Seattle last year would also would be included in that group, and they too managed 1 win. Weird). Interesting side note, the Patriots still have not beaten a team with a winning record all year. The only two they played with winning records (Pittsburgh and the NY Giants) beat them.

New Orleans vs. San Fran - San Fran played well and I was impressed at how well Alex Smith and the offense played. But at the end of the day, New Orleans would have won had they not turned the ball over like crazy. And as good as San Fran's defense is, there's an element of luck involved here. New Orleans is not turning the ball over 5 times if these teams play again. Since the one turnover New Orleans got was right at the end of the half and was too late to do anything with, the Saints were effectively -5 in the turnover margin and still almost won. That's ridiculous and shows San Francisco's flaws.

Baltimore vs. Houston - These teams are virtually equal except for one major difference. Both have good defenses (Houston's played better today). Both can run the ball (Houston was better here too). But Houston has crap at QB with Schaub out and Baltimore has something a level above crap. Flacco did not play well today (and I'm still not convinced he's a good QB despite all the "wins" to his name), but some timely turnovers and a little fumble luck (like when Ray Rice fumbled at the goal time and Grubbs recovered) were the difference. If Jones doesn't horribly muff that one punt and if Houston had a real QB, they would have won. That's the problem with Houston, without Schuab they had a limited ceiling. They might be able to get past mediocre teams without a QB (the Bengals did not beat any good teams all year either), but they're too flawed to win in all. Unless Flacco is better than I think he is, I can't see Baltimore winning it all either.

Green Bay vs. New York - New York is such a Jekyll and Hyde team its crazy. Happens every year, this time they were on. Manning was on. The defense was on.Hell, Green Bay only scored twice, and both were significantly aided by blown calls (the first half TD came after the refs blew the fumble call and the late TD came after a phantom roughing the passer). This was a dominating performance by New York. Only question is, can they repeat it? When they're on, they're tough - like when they won the Super Bowl a few years back. Problem is they are hardly consistent. Tough for Packers fans after such a great season, as the Giants were the wrong team at the wrong time.

[Warhead36]

On a year to year basis, the best QBs win. Anything can happen over one game, but if you build around an elite franchise QB you'll basically be a playoff team every year.

[jivelikenice]

Its about being balanced....being great in some areas, and not turning it over. The bottom line is inspite of how good your passing game is, playoff games will be won by the team that's more physical, and takes away the ball. That's why we need to bring the offense up, and figure out how to take the next step as a D. That's also why rex shouldn't be back!

[No_Pressure]

It really does feel ****ty that we beat the Giants convincingly twice this season and those *******s just took down the team with the best record in the NFL on the road and are headed to the championship game. Seriously, how does Rax Grissman and our offensive line beat the Giants and control their pass rush and the Packers and Rogers get their teeth kicked in?

[Skins3000]

I will say it once, twice, and this will be my third time, the Skins need to address both sides of the football in the draft and free agency for that matter and not concentrate on one side of the football being offense. The offense definitely needs a signal caller and everyone agrees on that but that defense is not solid by far especially in the secondary and it can still get a little stout upfront. I would not be opposed to bringing in another pass rusher to light a spark under Orakpo. I like the kid, plays well at times but not dominate. Orakpo felt disrespected in some rating system that was going on with the best top ten young pass rushers and Orakpo was not in it well there is a reason why. I definitely need an upgrade at qb and there is no way on this planet I can roll with Sexy Rexy in 2012. I will take a year off if that happens again.