HogNose Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 In the winter of 2010, the Redskins and Browns made bold moves, giving gobs of money and total control to Mike Shanahan and Mike Holmgren, respectively. Shanahan would have final say over Washington's roster moves as coach. Holmgren took over the entire organization as team president in Cleveland, putting together a coaching staff and front office. These were splashy moves, meant to invigorate long-suffering franchises. Two of the greatest offensive minds, nearing the end of their careers, would finally find a quarterback of the future for these starved fans, and begin piling up the yards and points after playing stale offensive football for so long. And what do you know, the results in both Washington and Cleveland -- through the first season and a half of their tenures -- have been almost exactly the same. Shanahan is 9-16; Holmgren is 8-17. Both are sitting in last place. Both are still muddling through their quarterback situations, both have abysmal offenses with marginal talent and the future is decidedly murky. Both made critical hires of less experienced coaches they were close with: Mike's son Kyle Shanahan as Washington's offensive coordinator and Pat Shurmur, nephew of longtime Holmgren defensive coordinator Fritz Shurmur, as Cleveland's coach (but also, in essence, its offensive coordinator, play-caller and quarterback mentor). Both teams passed on what looks like it could be a banner class for rookie quarterbacks to instead address defense high in the 2011 draft. Continued.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrifNick21 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 For the love of God, Shanahan took over the WORST roster in the NFL. People aren't patient enough in this league. I know, I know, this is a "must win now league." Well, ya know what, they've tried that in the past, and what has it gotten them? Nowhere. PATIENCE. PATIENCE. PATIENCE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I think people hate it that we wasted the first two years but i can see why he made certain moves. He brought in McNabb like Gibbs brought in brunell to buy time to get a rookie qb that he liked. Brunell had a terrible year in 04 but played great to get us a 10-6 record with a horrible supporting cast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 For the love of God, Shanahan took over the WORST roster in the NFL I keep hearing this but I don't really buy it. I think the way parts of the roster fell short made it pretty bad but top to bottom, I don't think it was the WORST in the NFL. People want to exaggerate to make his job seem more insurmountable but it wasn't like Atlanta was replete with talent when Petrino left and Vick was gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursilis Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 For the love of God, Shanahan took over the WORST roster in the NFL. Why do people continue to repeat this lie? This roster needed work, but it was never threatening to go 0-16. The Redskins have NEVER had the worst roster in the league since Snyder's owned the team. This is just more excuse-making for Shanahan. ---------- Post added November-14th-2011 at 10:07 PM ---------- I think people hate it that we wasted the first two years but i can see why he made certain moves. He brought in McNabb like Gibbs brought in brunell to buy time to get a rookie qb that he liked. Brunell had a terrible year in 04 but played great to get us a 10-6 record with a horrible supporting cast The move was dumb when Gibbs made it (and dealt a pick) and it was dumb when Shanahan did the same. Shanahan wanted a caretaker QB to keep the seat warm for a rookie? There was already one on the roster - Jason Campbell. And he didn't cost Shanahan two draft picks either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSilverMaC Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I keep hearing this but I don't really buy it. I think the way parts of the roster fell short made it pretty bad but top to bottom, I don't think it was the WORST in the NFL. People want to exaggerate to make his job seem more insurmountable but it wasn't like Atlanta was replete with talent when Petrino left and Vick was gone. There are a bunch of often repeated phrases on this board that get regurgitated but have little if any basis in reality. The Skins didn't have the worst roster in the nfl anymore than shanny absolutely had no choice but to go into this season with rex and beck as qb. Also, if this team really was the absolute worst in the nfl maybe people should show zorn a little more love considering he won 4 games with the worst roster in the nfl and mike only won 6 after a large house cleaning and getting some of his own type of players in. two off-seasons removed from allegedly the worst roster in the nfl (for the love of God) and it looks like shanny may actually win less games in his first two seasons that zorn did in his. Shanny is here, and I believe he should finish up his contract. But he's yet to show anything that has earned the mindless devotion some on this site give him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenRiggins Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I keep hearing this but I don't really buy it. I think the way parts of the roster fell short made it pretty bad but top to bottom, I don't think it was the WORST in the NFL. People want to exaggerate to make his job seem more insurmountable but it wasn't like Atlanta was replete with talent when Petrino left and Vick was gone. I don't either, it's a weak cop out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I keep hearing this but I don't really buy it. I think the way parts of the roster fell short made it pretty bad but top to bottom, I don't think it was the WORST in the NFL. People want to exaggerate to make his job seem more insurmountable but it wasn't like Atlanta was replete with talent when Petrino left and Vick was gone. It may not have been the worst in overall talent, but I'd agree it was one of the worst in how it was built. It was filled with overpriced FA veterans, some bad eggs, and positions of importance that were neglected. We had talent on the roster, enough to win some games. But it was never gonna be a consistent winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I keep hearing this but I don't really buy it. I think the way parts of the roster fell short made it pretty bad but top to bottom, I don't think it was the WORST in the NFL. People want to exaggerate to make his job seem more insurmountable but it wasn't like Atlanta was replete with talent when Petrino left and Vick was gone. Yeah, it only took a franchise QB, 1st round OT, the sudden emergence of Roddy White, and the acquisitions of Michael Turner and Tony Gonzalez to get the offense going. Not to mention a new coaching staff to replace the joke that was Petrino and his staff. I simply compare the '08 draft to the '10 draft. DT had questions, only 1 good year in college. Kelly had injury concerns. Davis was questioned b/c we had Cooley, Rinehart had questions being from a small school, Durant brooks and Brennan had some potential but low round picks that couldn't transition. This year we have Kerrigan contending for DROY, Jarvis Jenkins showed a ton of promise in preseason, Hankerson started to shine in season 1, w/o an offseason, Paul has been solid blocking and STs, Helu looks decent. We're drafting right, but this isn;t Gibbs 2.0 where we are built to compete right away but can't sustain long-term b/c of the shortcomings of the win now build now strategy, we are building to have a team that will become a perennial contender, one that can sustain. This takes time, especially when converting a team that was even lucky to get 4 wins. We've been purging the roster, have to break it all down and build it back up. 2 offseasons, 1 with a crappy FA pool due to no CBA restrictions and limited draft picks due to the previous regime, the other with no actual offseason, is not enough to create a contender. As others have said: patience. This team has more young potential than we've seen in quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 For the love of God, Shanahan took over the WORST roster in the NFL. People aren't patient enough in this league. I know, I know, this is a "must win now league." Well, ya know what, they've tried that in the past, and what has it gotten them? Nowhere.PATIENCE. PATIENCE. PATIENCE. And his reaction to said roster was to go out and trade draft picks for older vets because he foresaw an immediate playoff run. I like a lot of what he's done in year 2 and am more than willing to be patient. But your defense of him is more of an indictment. If he really was starting with the worst roster in the NFL, in a year with an extremely limited FA class and no 3rd round draft choice, and he thought it was worth sacrificing from the future to make a playoff run, then that is incompetence on a nearly biblical scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Shanny wasted year one. He should've gone with the good and bad of Rexy in year one. Completely gut the roster and rebuild from year one. He didn't do that. He started his rebuild with year 2; though whether he actually gets to year 5 remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Yeah, it only took a franchise QB, 1st round OT, the sudden emergence of Roddy White, and the acquisitions of Michael Turner and Tony Gonzalez to get the offense going. Not to mention a new coaching staff to replace the joke that was Petrino and his staff. Um, well talking about coaching changes doesn't make sense. The coaching changes happened here too. The point is, Atlanta was not a talented roster at the time. Also note, they went 11-5 when Sam baker missed the majority of the season (people keep citing Oline, but the Offensive line told the guys in production/prep meetings that it was Ryan's getting rid of the ball that was making them look good and again, Baker wasn't a factor in the 11-5 from 4-12 turnaround year) and Gonzo didn't play for them in 2008. He signed the following year. Their offense and defense went from 29th in the league in points to 10 and 11th, respectively. I mean, your point actually lends credence to my idea. If coaching change and getting a QB and pretty good RB (though I wonder if he has declined already to some extent) changed their fortunes it supports my point that the right coach and a QB can put you over the top and that the "roster" was not as much the issue here, except in the ways that Shanahan wanted to change from a successful 4-3 to 3-4. That's fine he sees it as the future or as a way to maintain flexibility. No problem with that, but then he made certain moves that indicated he saw a chance to compete right away. BTW, Roddy White had only a hundred yards more in 2008 than in 2007 and five more catches and one more TD. He improved a bit but it wasn't like he emerged in 2008 with Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffylookin Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I think people hate it that we wasted the first two years but i can see why he made certain moves. He brought in McNabb like Gibbs brought in brunell to buy time to get a rookie qb that he liked. Brunell had a terrible year in 04 but played great to get us a 10-6 record with a horrible supporting cast Huh? Played great? Terrible supporting cast? Clinton Portis carried that offense and Santana Moss made Brunell look better than he was that season. Brunell was part of the "terrible" supporting cast that Portis had to deal with. Gibbs' waste of draft pick on him was almost as bad as McNabb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursilis Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 And his reaction to said roster was to go out and trade draft picks for older vets because he foresaw an immediate playoff run. I like a lot of what he's done in year 2 and am more than willing to be patient. But your defense of him is more of an indictment. If he really was starting with the worst roster in the NFL, in a year with an extremely limited FA class and no 3rd round draft choice, and he thought it was worth sacrificing from the future to make a playoff run, then that is incompetence on a nearly biblical scale. Nice post. I agree that this is really the first year of Shanahan's rebuild - last year he was definitely trying for a playoff run, not just with the McNabb deal, but with all the old RB auditions, and old WRs (Galloway, etc.). I'm not sure if he grossly overestimated the roster, or his own ability to make a playoff team out of it. Either way, it was a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 If Shanahan was trying for a playoff run last year, he clearly did not think he had the worst roster in the NFL, correct? Either that or he can't evaluate talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 If Shanahan was trying for a playoff run last year' date=' he clearly did not think he had the worst roster in the NFL, correct? Either that or he can't evaluate talent.[/quote']Since he did a rather dramatic overhaul of the roster last year (and this year as well), that doesn't necessarily negate the idea that the Skins had the worst roster in the NFL when he took over. If he was truly thinking the Skins had the roster and talent to make a run for the playoffs last year, it might have been simply an over-valuing McNabb as his QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Since he did a rather dramatic overhaul of the roster last year (and this year as well), that doesn't necessarily negate the idea that the Skins had the worst roster in the NFL when he took over.If he was truly thinking the Skins had the roster and talent to make a run for the playoffs last year, it might have been simply an over-valuing McNabb as his QB. What was the dramatic overhaul he did prior to game 1 of the 2010 season other than QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Worst talent in the league? Hardly. But, it was declining and had talent from two different head coaches which didn't necessarily agree with the way Shanahan wanted to build his team. That being said, the part of the team that needed the most help, the offensive line, hasn't improved much in two years. In fact, as far as running the ball, it has actually declined, which is a shock for a Shanahan-lead team. The focus still seems on getting skill players rather than guys in the trenches. The whole thing with McNabb is still a mystery to me. I don't know how anyone could have looked at this roster and thought that move made any sense. We would have been better off keeping the picks and letting Grossman and Campbell fight it out to start last year. Last year really set us back in starting to rebuild this team into something. He did make a recovery this year of sorts, but was the price we paid in having to trade back for more picks worth it? Would we have been better off if we didn't make the trades for McNabb and Brown and had potentially more quality with our picks? I still shake my head that we went into training camp with Beck and Grossman. I knew Grossman wasn't the answer in his brief stint last year, and the big bet they seemed to make in Beck was out of proportion. I gave him a chance to impress me, and he never really did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursilis Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Since he did a rather dramatic overhaul of the roster last year (and this year as well), that doesn't necessarily negate the idea that the Skins had the worst roster in the NFL when he took over.If he was truly thinking the Skins had the roster and talent to make a run for the playoffs last year, it might have been simply an over-valuing McNabb as his QB. Then what does that say about his ability to evaluate the QB position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I keep hearing this but I don't really buy it. I think the way parts of the roster fell short made it pretty bad but top to bottom, I don't think it was the WORST in the NFL. People want to exaggerate to make his job seem more insurmountable but it wasn't like Atlanta was replete with talent when Petrino left and Vick was gone. I would say it was a bad roster along with being an old roster, maybe not the worst. Plus, we were without a lot of picks in the 2010 and 2011 draft. That didn't help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I didn't see it mentioned in the previous posts, but Mike rendered a half dozen players he inherited less useful by scheme changes on offense and defense. A few might have been traded for low round picks, but that never happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 What was the dramatic overhaul he did prior to game 1 of the 2010 season other than QB? Sign young and developing players like Larry Johnson, Joey Galloway and the like. Trade for an MVP caliber quarterback in McNabb. Nvm was just reminded this is not 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Jason La Canfora with his typical BS. We all know that he'd be ****ing about not "giving our QB a team to work with" if we DID pick a QB. You just can't win against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goingforburgundy Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Did we have the roster in the league? Probably not. Did we have the worst roster in the most important places? You better damn believe it. We have the Worst OLine and QB situation in the league. After 2 years the QB has 0 past present and future. After 2 years the Oline looks like it will need 3-4 new starters for 2012. The depth is finally in place just need starting caliber talent. How they can call out Holmgren in this is beyond me. He robbed the Falcons this year in the draft. They have a ton of ammo to move up to get RG3 or Luck if they want them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 What was the dramatic overhaul he did prior to game 1 of the 2010 season other than QB? Redskins parted ways with: Antwaan Randle El Todd Collins Fred Smoot Rock Cartwright Ladell Betts Cornelius Griffin Randy Thomas Jason Campbell With the exception of Campbell and Cartwright, these players are all out of the NFL now. Yet the Skins were relying rather heavily on all of the above players through the 2008-2009 seasons before Shanahan took over. The Washington Post at the time: The Washington Redskins launched a major overhaul of their roster Thursday, releasing 10 players, including several high-priced veterans...Finally getting a chance to address the Redskins' roster, Shanahan and General Manager Bruce Allen wasted no time making sweeping changes, gutting the team's aging nucleus... Sounds like they agree with me lol :yes:... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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