Should Joe Paterno retire or step down after Jerry Sandusky alleged molestation???

[SkinInsite]

It's borderline criminal negligence from McQueary on up. A violent crime took place and no one called the police?

The first thing wasn't about saving kids being abused but to protect the legacy of PSU football? They all can go to hell.

[Heisenberg]

Is there any way to merge the 2 threads now? It's hard to follow both.

[Boss_Hogg]

NY Times:

Penn State Said to Be Planning Paterno Exit Amid Scandal

[KingGibbs]

Ok, let’s pretend for a minute that you're Joe. A member of you staff comes in and tells you that he just saw a co worker diddling kids in his office. Judging by your comment above, I'm going to guess that you would feel the correct action would be to call the cops. So you do just that. Only you have no proof, no firsthand info, and basically nothing to offer the authorities. IF, (and this is a big if, because I fully believe Sandusky did it) if Sandusky did nothing wrong, you just opened yourself and your beloved college up to lawsuits and you probably got yourself, and the GA fired, and drug a colleague and friend through the mud for no reason. On the other hand, you could have turned it over to the higher ups at your school and let them conduct a proper (at least you are under the impression it will be) investigation, eliminating your susceptibility to any negative ramifications.

I can see why Joe made the choice he did and I can also say that I probably would have made the same choice. Anyone who says they would have usurped the college chain of command is probably naive or lying. And for those of you who think he should have followed up on the investigation, well, that's just silly. No one is going to discuss a possible child molestation investigation with anyone who does not have a direct need to know. Joe could have asked about it until he was blue in the face (that's not a knock on his age) and he would have been stonewalled all day long. Again, I think Joe did nothing and this is simply a witch hunt to watch a celeb fall from grace and improve viewer ratings for a few news channels.

Well you're in the minority of the ****ing clueless. Get it through your thick skull that he had an opportunity to prevent future rapes, but instead he swept it under the rug. Like I've said multiple times, a man of his stature should've used his influence to get to the bottom of the allegations. I guess you think Sandusky needs "help and rehab?"

Not to mention had he done the right thing when it was brought to his attention his legacy might still be intact because he took appropriate action.

Like they say. It starts at the top and Paterno is/was bigger then any other figure at PSU.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

There is a book in here about the Cult of Happy Valley. Read Michael Weintreub's piece on Grantland to get some idea of what I'm talking about.

State College was this little place that was world famous almost entirely because of one man. And that one man's genius was in the way he raised himself above everyone else through his humility. Everyone knew where he lived. Everyone knew his phone number. Everyone saw him walking to the games. But he was the most important man in the history of the university - probably the most important man ever in his profession.

His staff became famous because of him. And they all did the same thing. They moved to State College...and they stayed forever. No one ever seemed to be ambitious. No one ever seemed to want to leave for a better job or more money.

They all were convinced that they were part of something better than jobs or money or fame. The Grand Experiment. And if you lived in State College, you to were part of it. And that made you a better person. Because you were cheering for the most noble coach who ran the most noble program with the most noble players and the most noble assistants. One of who was a kid toucher.

The end.

[Goskinz0721]

Well you'rer in the minority of the ****ing clueless. Get it through your thick skull that he had an opportunity to prevent future rapes, but instead he swept it under the rug. Like I've said multiple times, a man of his stature should've used his influence to get to the bottom of the allegations. I guess you think Sandusky needs "help and rehab?"

Not to mention had he did the right thing when it was brought to his attention his legacy might still be intact because he took appropriate action.

Like they say. It starts at the top and Paterno is/was bigger then any other figure at PSU.

Right on.

And let me add, Paterno knew this guy for 30+ years. He had to have some type of friendship with this scumbag. So Paterno finds out not once, but twice that his heir apparent is caught in a shower with a young boy. Forget who Paterno reported this to.

Don't you think Paterno would have confronted this scumbag to grill him on wtf he was doing? Paterno had to know this guy was a pedophile. And he did nothing to stop it. SMH...sad...sad...sad

[E33Green]

Looks like this is already hurting Penn State on the recruiting front:

Um psu might be a no no for me ewwww

That was from the twitter account of Noah Spence (@nspence94), the top defensive end recruit in the country out of Bishop McDevitt in Harrisburg, PA.

[Mr. Sinister]

I don't think Sandusky needs rehab. I think he needs to be beaten to within an inch of his life. People like that are beyond help.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

To be somewhat fair, campus police ARE sworn cops, with guns and badges and all that. The main issue is that Paterno didn't do any follow up on it at all, and seems to have blown off all the other allegations.

I'd rank the culpability for letting it happen as follows:

Chief of Campus Police > Curley+Shultz > Spanier > Paterno.

Not saying they shouldn't all go, but if you tell the cops about a crime, and the cops do nothing, then the only thing you did wrong was not going to a different set of authorities who might have gave a ****.

[Forehead]

Looks like this is already hurting Penn State on the recruiting front:

That was from the twitter account of Noah Spence (@nspence94), the top defensive end recruit in the country out of Bishop McDevitt in Harrisburg, PA.

While recruiting is certainly not the most important thing right now, you had to expect this would happen. Penn State had a borderline top-10 class, before a star OT decommitment a few weeks ago. Still Top 15, but Spence (along with one or two other guys) was a key to pushing them into potentially top 7, top 8 this offseason. I wouldn't be surprised now if they lose out on all their remaining targets, as well as losing some of the high profile guys they already had committed.

[Slateman]

Ok, let’s pretend for a minute that you're Joe. A member of you staff comes in and tells you that he just saw a co worker diddling kids in his office. Judging by your comment above, I'm going to guess that you would feel the correct action would be to call the cops. So you do just that. Only you have no proof, no firsthand info, and basically nothing to offer the authorities. IF, (and this is a big if, because I fully believe Sandusky did it) if Sandusky did nothing wrong, you just opened yourself and your beloved college up to lawsuits and you probably got yourself, and the GA fired, and drug a colleague and friend through the mud for no reason. On the other hand, you could have turned it over to the higher ups at your school and let them conduct a proper (at least you are under the impression it will be) investigation, eliminating your susceptibility to any negative ramifications.

I can see why Joe made the choice he did and I can also say that I probably would have made the same choice. Anyone who says they would have usurped the college chain of command is probably naive or lying. And for those of you who think he should have followed up on the investigation, well, that's just silly. No one is going to discuss a possible child molestation investigation with anyone who does not have a direct need to know. Joe could have asked about it until he was blue in the face (that's not a knock on his age) and he would have been stonewalled all day long. Again, I think Joe did nothing and this is simply a witch hunt to watch a celeb fall from grace and improve viewer ratings for a few news channels.

Here's what I would do. I would take the janitor to the police and say you want to speak to the senior detectives. On the way there I would call my superiors and tell them, briefly, what happened and that I'm going to the police.

A university is NOT the military. There is no "chain of command" Besides, what re they going to do? Fire Paterno?

[Pick6]

Child rape is the absolute worse crime. I would probably rate it over murder. Anyways, if I was Joe P and this was a friend of my I would be disgusted. The only option I have would be to turn him in. I have a very close friend that I have known for over 17 years and I'm roommates with right now. We are like brothers and I would still turn him in. Sorry there is no defending the actions of the people involved in this.

[Heisenberg]

The more I read the more it doesn't seem like they were "friends" at all. I believe I saw a quote attributed to Sandusky that indicated that he had only spoken to Paterno once since retirement.

I'm not sure if that changes much, however.

[Sticksboi05]

It's one thing if JoePa had only first known about possible allegations in 2002. It's understandable that a you wouldn't believe a G.A. about a longtime friend doing wtf in your own locker room. In that case, he still reported it to the administration. But this wasn't the first time and in 1998 it's pretty clear there was knowledge of this piece of ****. The prior knowledge is what makes this inexcusable. Absolutely inexcusable. Everyone from McQueary up should be punished.

---------- Post added November-8th-2011 at 03:19 PM ----------

Child rape is the absolute worse crime. I would probably rate it over murder. Anyways, if I was Joe P and this was a friend of my I would be disgusted. The only option I have would be to turn him in. I have a very close friend that I have known for over 17 years and I'm roommates with right now. We are like brothers and I would still turn him in. Sorry there is no defending the actions of the people involved in this.

I wouldn't rate anything over robbing someone of the right to live because with support from family and friends, you can live your life after trauma. But this ranks right behind murder.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

To be somewhat fair, campus police ARE sworn cops, with guns and badges and all that. The main issue is that Paterno didn't do any follow up on it at all, and seems to have blown off all the other allegations.

I'd rank the culpability for letting it happen as follows:

Chief of Campus Police > Curley+Shultz > Spanier > Paterno.

Not saying they shouldn't all go, but if you tell the cops about a crime, and the cops do nothing, then the only thing you did wrong was not going to a different set of authorities who might have gave a ****.

In 2002, this never went to the police. It seems to have stopped with Schultz, who never reported it further. There was never an investigation in 2002.

That's why Schultz is in big trouble.

[Goskinz0721]

It's one thing if JoePa had only first known about possible allegations in 2002. It's understandable that a you wouldn't believe a G.A. about a longtime friend doing wtf in your own locker room. In that case, he still reported it to the administration. But this wasn't the first time and in 1998 it's pretty clear there was knowledge of this piece of ****. The prior knowledge is what makes this inexcusable. Absolutely inexcusable. Everyone from McQueary up should be punished.

Yeah, it's the prior knowledge that makes it inexcusable to me. This and the fact that Paterno knew this scumbag for 30+ years.

I want hear Paterno discuss any conversation they had after the 1998 incident and before the scumbag "retired".

[twa]

Yep, they treated it like a honors violation or some **** instead of the serious crime it was.

[Destino]

Here's what I would do. I would take the janitor to the police and say you want to speak to the senior detectives. On the way there I would call my superiors and tell them, briefly, what happened and that I'm going to the police.

A university is NOT the military. There is no "chain of command" Besides, what re they going to do? Fire Paterno?

I'm starting to think people are just head hunting now. Two people walk in on child rape.... Neither chose to stop it or call the police. But it's all Paterno's fault. Its like TMZ's version of justice. Who is the biggest celeb? Blame him! Mcquery is te guy that should have been immediately fired. He walked in in rape and turned and walked out allowing it to continue. Didn't get the victims name or stop anything.

Paterno gets 2nd hand info later reports it.... and he's the monster? This famous people head hunt is becoming obvious. Paterno didn't do enough.., I can agree there and his role is worth an investigation because he may have known more. That needs to be looked into. Right now however I see too people that walked into a rape scene being ignored when they did the unthinkable. I see the head of campus police who did nothing charged,

... And everyone is talking about Paterno.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I see the head of campus police who did nothing charged,

The only good spin PSU has exhibited in this is convincing people that Schultz was in charge of the police. They fell under his budget purview; he was not a police official. That is a huge difference when it comes to mandatory reporting laws.

Again, the 2002 incident was never reported to the police.

[gbear]

Destino, they are all monsters.

Joe Pa is just the one everyone thought was better. He had an image of a protective father over the kids, and yet he let this crap go on under him. Do people say the pope who transfered pedophile preasts to other congregations was a monster? Yes...but he only had second hand info.

The thing is when one assumes a position of power whether it be organizational, personal or actual power, then one assumes responcibility to act in certain situations. This was one such situation. There comes a time when one has to be uber protective of even the appearance of impropriety both personal and institutionaly. Sexual encounters with kids or even siutations which only appear that way need swift and full disclosure to avoid exactly what is happening now. He failed on this account...and it seems multiple kids may have suffered as a result of his failure (if grand jury report is factual). The results of his failure should make him resign rather than wait to be fired putting some whose responcibility it is to safe guard the image of the school in the terrible spot of having to fire a legend.

[Destino]

The only good spin PSU has exhibited in this is convincing people that Schultz was in charge of the police. They fell under his budget purview; he was not a police official. That is a huge difference when it comes to mandatory reporting laws.

Again' date=' the 2002 incident was never reported to the police.[/quote']

That's all well and good but every company I've ever been with (including the one I now own) has a chain of command. You report it up and they handle police. Especially if you have no first hand knowledge and the person in question does not work for you.

If you want to play the "should have called the police" game McQuery and the Janitor are the ones that were in the best position to do that. In fact had Paterno called the police they wouldn't have had enough to even open a investigation until they spoke to either one being that Paterno had no first hand knowledge of anything.

Police fall under the guys management area. That's not something I'm going to discount as quickly as you seem to be willing to do so. He has more authority than anyone to demand an investigation, certainly more than Paterno.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I think the idea is that because of Paterno's stature, he should have been able to just trample the organizational structure and chain of responsibility to make sure something gets done, and while that's theoretically possible, it only sounds like a good idea in hindsight. And remember, at the time, Paterno did NOT know of any previous accusations (at least there's no evidence that he did) - while they obviously existed, it is quite likely that Paterno (who is only the football coach, not the school president or the athletic director) was not informed of them (mostly because no charges were ever filed)

[Destino]

Destino, they are all monsters.

Joe Pa is just the one everyone thought was better. He had an image of a protective father over the kids, and yet he let this crap go on under him. Do people say the pope who transfered pedophile preasts to other congregations was a monster? Yes...but he only had second hand info.

The thing is when one assumes a position of power whether it be organizational, personal or actual power, then one assumes responcibility to act in certain situations. This was one such situation. There comes a time when one has to be uber protective of even the appearance of impropriety both personal and institutionaly. Sexual encounters with kids or even siutations which only appear that way need swift and full disclosure to avoid exactly what is happening now. He failed on this account...and it seems multiple kids may have suffered as a result of his failure (if grand jury report is factual). The results of his failure should make him resign rather than wait to be fired putting some whose responcibility it is to safe guard the image of the school in the terrible spot of having to fire a legend.

I think people see "child rape" and want to burn everyone immediately. I don't subscribe to that belief. The rapist is a monster. McQueary is coldest **** in this scenario... think of what it takes to encounter a child in the process of being raped and turning around and leaving. Think about that. His reaction was to consult his father on what to do and what they came up with was to meet with Paterno the next day. THE NEXT DAY!!! McQueary at best is a spineless coward that allowed a child to be raped.

Paterno at this point (unless something else is released) has no first hand information and doesn't currently employ the individual in question. He realizes the man is well known however... so he takes it to his superiors. Compare that reaction to what McQueary did and if you tell me it's even on the same level I'm calling BS. His superiors then agreed to look into it and did nothing. What I see is enough reason for Paterno's role to be investigated. I want them to see if he did act to squash this or if he made the mistake of trusting people to do their jobs. There is a difference. One is wrong minded and foolish the other is criminal and horribly wrong. That remains to be proven and does, IMO, deserve to be thoroughly investigated. He might be and I'm not letting him off the hook. Point is I'm not seeing it as proven right now.

[Slateman]

I'm starting to think people are just head hunting now. Two people walk in on child rape.... Neither chose to stop it or call the police. But it's all Paterno's fault. Its like TMZ's version of justice. Who is the biggest celeb? Blame him! Mcquery is te guy that should have been immediately fired. He walked in in rape and turned and walked out allowing it to continue. Didn't get the victims name or stop anything.

Paterno gets 2nd hand info later reports it.... and he's the monster? This famous people head hunt is becoming obvious. Paterno didn't do enough.., I can agree there and his role is worth an investigation because he may have known more. That needs to be looked into. Right now however I see too people that walked into a rape scene being ignored when they did the unthinkable. I see the head of campus police who did nothing charged,

... And everyone is talking about Paterno.

Oh I'm not holding just Paterno responsible. The two witnesses, Paterno, the administration that Paterno told .... All guilty.

All the kids that this guy hurt, molested and/or raped after this particular incident could have been prevented if one of them had stepped up and done the right thing. As far as I'm concerned, all should be charged with crimes. They're just as culpable.

But you know why people will hold Paterno responsible? Because he has been the face of that school for as long as anyone can remember. He's the reason PSU is known around the country. He has built himself up as a leader and maker of young men. And the whole time, he's known that one of his coaches was raping kids. And what did the venerable Jo-Pa do? He told his boss and then pretended nothing ever happened.

[sportjunkie07]

That's all well and good but every company I've ever been with (including the one I now own) has a chain of command. You report it up and they handle police. If you want to play the "should have called the police" game the two eye witnesses are the ones your own standards would indicate failed.

Police fall under the guys management area. That's not something I'm going to discount as quickly as you seem to be willing to do so. It's like saying the secretary of defense isn't a member of the military... He has more authority to command investigation not less.

There are a lot of people at fault here, not just Paterno. Mcqueary, Schultz, Curley, etc.

Paterno knew Sandusky for years, we can only estimate as to when he first became aware of Sandusky's illegal tendencies. But we know that he knew of the allegations in 98'. He is the head of the program, how could he not know? Consequetially, he prevented Sandusky from becoming the next coach at PSU and prevented him from being coach elsewhere.

In 2002, McQueary told him straight up that there was rape going on. Maybe he believed McQueary, maybe he didnt. But its foolish to take such accusations lightheartedly when there have been previous allegations in 98', especially with an allegation so grave as child molestation. So Paterno pushes the info up the chain of command, to cover his tail and prevent a scandal at PSU. And when nothing comes of it, do you think its normal for Paterno to see Sandusky walking around with children? He had to know the accusations were accurate, otherwise, why would he promote Mcqueary later if he makes false accusations like that?

And the molestation continues, with Paterno aware that offenses had occured and turning a blind eye to future offenses. He just didnt care enough about those kids to act responsibly.

That's the problem people have with Paterno. And we're not talking about someone slandering someone in the workplace or harassing a female in the military, we are talking about the rape of children. In the corporate world and in the military, if you allow these things to happen when you can do something about it, it's never going to end well for you. This resposibility falls even harder upon people in a position of leadership. Paterno runs PSU, he was untouchable and is probably the most capable person of doing something about it and stopping these criminal acts. He let it happen though. That's why everyone is so angry at Paterno, and rightfully so.