Should Joe Paterno retire or step down after Jerry Sandusky alleged molestation???

[Destino]

But you know why people will hold Paterno responsible? Because he has been the face of that school for as long as anyone can remember. He's the reason PSU is known around the country. He has built himself up as a leader and maker of young men.

So like I said, he's the biggest name involved. TMZ justice. Same reason Sean Taylor was charged instead of the thugs that assaulted him. Take the biggest name and make it all about him. Paterno may have done something horrible and that needs to be looked into. Right now however if you remove all the names it looks like this:

Witness Sees a child rape in progress on his employers property and leaves the scene immediately taking no action otherwise. Talks to father and the two of them decide it's best to tell his boss.

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Witness informs boss that he witnessed something (what he actually said has not been determined) of a sexual nature involving a child and a former employee taking place on company property.

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Boss information executives of this incident.

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Executives choose to not pursue the matter.

There is no one that upon seeing the above that would have decided "boss" was the monster.... unless he's a celebrity. My question was Paterno told and what exactly were the school admins told? If Paterno was told rape and then turned around and downplayed it that's significant. If on the other hand he was given fuzzy details by, an already proven to be spineless, McQuaery then that changes things in the opposite direction IMO. None of this happens if McQueary had done the right thing: knock Sandusky out, get the kid out of there, and call the police immediately. (my version of the right thing)

[renaissance]

Wasn't McQueary 28 when he witnessed the locker room event? Simply referring to him as a GA is a bit misleading, I think, because it gives the connotation that he was young or just some kid. Relative to other coaches he was young, but this was not some college kid witnessing and reporting the event. He was a grown man, and some posters make it sound like his reports were justifiably discounted because he was just a GA. In the same vein, the fact that he was 28 makes McQueary just as responsible as Paterno for the lack of action taken after the fact. Both had knowledge that something was wrong, and on a personal level I don't know how either can live with themselves or continue to work with the program knowing that people weren't held responsible as they should have been.

[Kilmer17]

Others having more responsibility to act or report, in no way should diminish Joe Paternos responsibility.

In a court of law, Paterno is innocent. In the court of public opion, and in any moral code, he's a ****ing scumbag who hid a pedophile.

If he had done something when he found out about it, it would have saved alot of kids.

A person in a position of power OVER KIDS, has a responsibility. He failed. He deserves every last bit of scrutiny and disgust that is spewing towards him, if not more.

[Destino]

There are a lot of people at fault here, not just Paterno. Mcqueary, Schultz, Curley, etc.

Paterno knew Sandusky for years, we can only estimate as to when he first became aware of Sandusky's illegal tendencies. But we know that he knew of the allegations in 98'. He is the head of the program, how could he not know? Consequetially, he prevented Sandusky from becoming the next coach at PSU and prevented him from being coach elsewhere.

In 2002, McQueary told him straight up that there was rape going on. Maybe he believed McQueary, maybe he didnt. But its foolish to take such accusations lightheartedly when there have been previous allegations in 98', especially with an allegation so grave as child molestation. So Paterno pushes the info up the chain of command, to cover his tail and prevent a scandal at PSU. And when nothing comes of it, do you think its normal for Paterno to see Sandusky walking around with children? He had to know the accusations were accurate, otherwise, why would he promote Mcqueary later if he makes false accusations like that?

And the molestation continues, with Paterno aware that offenses had occured and turning a blind eye to future offenses. He just didnt care enough about those kids to act responsibly.

Which is cause to investigate. We can't "estimate" what he knew. That's called assuming he's guilty with no evidence and that's not right.

That's the problem people have with Paterno. And we're not talking about someone slandering someone in the workplace or harassing a female in the military, we are talking about the rape of children. In the corporate world and in the military, if you allow these things to happen when you can do something about it, it's never going to end well for you. This resposibility falls even harder upon people in a position of leadership. Paterno runs PSU, he was untouchable and is probably the most capable person of doing something about it and stopping these criminal acts. He let it happen though. That's why everyone is so angry at Paterno, and rightfully so.

I understand your position but I take the opposite stance. The fact that it included children is cause for MORE CAUTION not less. Do a little research on how many people have had their lives ruined by the accusation... despite being found innocent. Perhaps in your world one should take action that would destroy a person because if it involves a child then collateral damage is tolerable. I personally completely disagree. If I had witnessed it there would have been an argument on if killing someone is justifiable. If someone had told me something and I had no first hand knowledge at all... I'd take a completely different route.

[Kilmer17]

He had a responsibility to do more than just report it to someone else and ignore it. While continuing to allow the pedophile access to the school facilities including an office on campus.

[Destino]

Others having more responsibility to act or report, in no way should diminish Joe Paternos responsibility.

In a court of law, Paterno is innocent. In the court of public opion, and in any moral code, he's a ****ing scumbag who hid a pedophile.

If he had done something when he found out about it, it would have saved alot of kids.

A person in a position of power OVER KIDS, has a responsibility. He failed. He deserves every last bit of scrutiny and disgust that is spewing towards him, if not more.

He did do something. If the schools admins had done there job no one would be criticizing Paterno right now. Not you, not anyone. Could he have done more? Of course. He could have gone to Sandusky's house and chopped his balls off too. (something I would have celebrated and had I been on the jury, excused) When the system breaks down I don't agree with blaming every individual in it to the same degree.

Having said that I'm not convinced that he didn't have a much more active role in covering this up. That needs to be investigated and there is plenty of justification for doing so.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Paterno knew Sandusky for years, we can only estimate as to when he first became aware of Sandusky's illegal tendencies. But we know that he knew of the allegations in 98'. He is the head of the program, how could he not know?

Source on this. The 98 allegations did not result in charges, and while it is plausible that Paterno could have known of the investigation (especially seeing that Sandusky was still on his staff), it's equally plausible that he did not, or at worst did not take them seriously once the DA said there'd be no charges.

Consequetially, he prevented Sandusky from becoming the next coach at PSU and prevented him from being coach elsewhere.

This is just speculation. It's a striking piece of circumstantial evidence that should be taken seriously, but there's no evidence to support it.

The main issue is Paterno's stature as a coach, which leads people to believe that he was in the know about every issue surrounding the program (even in 1999 he was becoming more of a figurehead, in 2002 that process was more or less complete), and therefore HAD to know about 1999/Victim 6, and HAD to know that Victim 2 was not followed up on (as opposed to it ending the way it did in 1999, with no charges).

Again, we don't know all the facts ( will we ever?) but the only thing RIGHT NOW we can determine that Paterno did wrong was a lack of aggressive follow-up. The real burden of guilt RIGHT NOW falls on Curley and Schulz (and to a lesser extent McQueary who allegedly watched a child being raped and ran away).

Could Paterno have been complicit in a coverup? Of course. But knowing what we know AT THIS MOMENT, we can't definitely say he was.

[Destino]

just report it to someone else and ignore it.

One of the other. Ignore it or report it. You can't have it both ways. What if he'd told a campus police officer and that guy squashed it. Should have have flagged down an FBI agent and forced the issue?

[Kilmer17]

He did do something. If the schools admins had done there job no one would be criticizing Paterno right now. Not you, not anyone. Could he have done more? Of course. He could have gone to Sandusky's house and chopped his balls off too. (something I would have celebrated and had I been on the jury, excused) When the system breaks down I don't agree with blaming every individual in it to the same degree.

Having said that I'm not convinced that he didn't have a much more active role in covering this up. That needs to be investigated and there is plenty of justification for doing so.

He needed to do more. Not legally, but morally.

A ten year old kid was getting anally raped by one of his asst coaches in the shower of his locker room. His response was to tell an administrator that there was some horseplay.

---------- Post added November-8th-2011 at 04:42 PM ----------

One of the other. Ignore it or report it. You can't have it both ways. What if he'd told a campus police officer and that guy squashed it. Should have have flagged down an FBI agent and forced the issue?

Yes.

[Predicto]

I'm sorry Destino, but it is not much of a defense of Paterno to say that other people were worse.

[MassSkinsFan]

If he knew police had quashed it, he could have contacted social services.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

If he knew police had quashed it, he could have contacted social services.

The problem is that people are blindly speculating on what Paterno knew and when he knew it, and thinking it's Paterno's job to lead an investigation just because he's a highly regarded football coach.

What I want to hear atm is someone confirming or denying that Paterno was informed of the 1999 incident.

[boysetsfire]

McQueary is just as big a coward as the head (ex) officials of Penn State. To run away and call your daddy instead of contacting authorities is just mind boggling to me. Same goes with Joe Pa. I know what he did was "legally" all he had to do but to not follow up on some serious accusations is just so morally wrong to me.

[Mr. Nostril]

I can't really vote in this poll, because I don't know how much JoePa knew about what was going on. I guess very little, because if some 20 year old kid came to you and made accusations against a person you've worked with for 30 years, and then you went and reported it to the proper authorities, and they said they were investigating the matter. Would you ask a ton of questions, or would you just assume you'd done your job and the investigation would vindicate your friend? You might be different than me, but I'd do the later and trust that my perception of this man, based on 30 years of knowing him was better than the word of the player who told me about his misconduct. If this is the case, then he shouldn't step down over.

However, if he did know about it and covered it up, then of course, he has to step down. It does seem a little empty to me to force out an 84 year old.

[TimmySmith]

Wasn't McQueary 28 when he witnessed the locker room event? Simply referring to him as a GA is a bit misleading, I think, because it gives the connotation that he was young or just some kid. Relative to other coaches he was young, but this was not some college kid witnessing and reporting the event.

I am a poster who stated that one does not know exactly how they will handle a situation as bizarre as this, which in no way was a defense of the guy. The fact that he did nothing and ran to his daddy was nearly as bizarre.

If we have not learned by now that JoPa will only be removed forcibly, than we have learned nothing. He will never leave on his own and he should be fired immediately. PSU is doing about 10 different types of damage control simultaneously, and seems to be failing at all of them. I am very surprised at how mum they continue to be. It's as if they expect this whole thing to disappear.

[MassSkinsFan]

The problem is that people are blindly speculating on what Paterno knew and when he knew it, and thinking it's Paterno's job to lead an investigation just because he's a highly regarded football coach.

What I want to hear atm is someone confirming or denying that Paterno was informed of the 1999 incident.

I'm not suggesting he or anyone else who may have had knowledge of this lead an investigation. In fact, the police or social services should be the investigators.

What I'm saying is that IF he knew, which as you correctly point out is not definitively known by us right now, then he should have done what he had to do to ensure someone investigated it.

It may not be completely fair, but I'd bet Joe Paterno knew that something was wrong with Sandusky's behavior with young boys before 2002. I also believe that when McQueary came to him, he should have not only passed the information to his superiors, but managed up to them to ensure they handled it correctly, since the implications of not doing so would be major for Paterno personally and for his program. If you read the Grand Jury report, you can see that the message that McQueary gave to Paterno was then diluted by Paterno, and it was further diluted in the next communication, sort of like a game of telephone.

So, when I say Paterno should have managed up, I mean he should have persistently checked to ensure the proper message was getting through to those responsible for deciding whether an investigation was merited. If the cops or social services say no, then you drop it. But if your superiors brush it off by saying they had spoken to the authorities and nothing happened, especially when you have the clout Paterno had, you check to be sure.

[Kilmer17]

It was a 28 year old GA (not a 20 year old kid).

And yes, even if it was a kid, and this kid told me that one of my employees was raping ten year old boys in my locker room, I would ABSOLUTELY do more than just tell someone else about it.

Call me crazy.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I can't really vote in this poll, because I don't know how much JoePa knew about what was going on. I guess very little, because if some 20 year old kid came to you and made accusations against a person you've worked with for 30 years, and then you went and reported it to the proper authorities, and they said they were investigating the matter. Would you ask a ton of questions, or would you just assume you'd done your job and the investigation would vindicate your friend? You might be different than me, but I'd do the later and trust that my perception of this man, based on 30 years of knowing him was better than the word of the player who told me about his misconduct. If this is the case, then he shouldn't step down over.

A. It was not a 20-year-old kid. It was a 28-year-old man and Joe's former QB. Joe also thought so highly of this man that he promoted him to assistant coach and then put him in charge of recruiting.

B. As everyone who has followed Penn State knows, Joe and Jerry were not exactly best friends.

C. There never was an investigation. Joe apparently never bothered to ask why.

Again, this is Joe Paterno. The man who fought for racial equality in college sports. The man who fought for academic integrity in college sports. The man who has been on the correct side of issue that has ever faced college athletics. Now, all of a sudden, he's just the kind of man who passes the buck along?

What bothers me most of all in this is how little the man who called his AD in 2002 and left it at that resembles the Paterno I thought I knew - the one who put four black players in his backfield once out of spite for his own fanbase.

[Destino]

McQueary is just as big a coward as the head (ex) officials of Penn State.

He is far worse. In truth other than Sandusky (obviously) his actions are the worst in this entire situation. Maybe not legally but as a man and a human being. He walked into the rape happening and turned around and walked away. Didn't so much as say "stop". Can you imagine LITERALLY allowing a rape to continue. This isn't about who he chose to call and when he was there while it was happening. From the indictment "The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him". The victim looked at him and he walked away.

[Popeman38]

I can't really vote in this poll, because I don't know how much JoePa knew about what was going on. I guess very little, because if some 20 year old kid came to you and made accusations against a person you've worked with for 30 years, and then you went and reported it to the proper authorities, and they said they were investigating the matter. Would you ask a ton of questions, or would you just assume you'd done your job and the investigation would vindicate your friend? You might be different than me, but I'd do the later and trust that my perception of this man, based on 30 years of knowing him was better than the word of the player who told me about his misconduct. If this is the case, then he shouldn't step down over.

However, if he did know about it and covered it up, then of course, he has to step down. It does seem a little empty to me to force out an 84 year old.

He was 28 at the time of the incident. a 28 year old graduate assistant. This wasn't some young pup. As a 28 year old man, you dome the 60 year old Sandusky and rescue the 10 year old. The cops can arrest him when he comes to. Sickening lack of moral values/ethics displayed by the entire PSU chain of command. The Gov should step in and fire them all. Not allow them to resign - fire them all for cause. No severance, no retirement. DONE

[Kilmer17]

He is far worse. In truth other than Sandusky (obviously) his actions are the worst in this entire situation. Maybe not legally but as a man and a human being. He walked into the rape happening and turned around and walked away. Didn't so much as say "stop". Can you imagine LITERALLY allowing a rape to continue. This isn't about who he chose to call and when he was there while it was happening. From the indictment "The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him". The victim looked at him and he walked away.

Absolutely. How does a man NOT intervene?

[sportjunkie07]

Which is cause to investigate. We can't "estimate" what he knew. That's called assuming he's guilty with no evidence and that's not right.

I understand your position but I take the opposite stance. The fact that it included children is cause for MORE CAUTION not less. Do a little research on how many people have had their lives ruined by the accusation... despite being found innocent. Perhaps in your world one should take action that would destroy a person because if it involves a child then collateral damage is tolerable. I personally completely disagree. If I had witnessed it there would have been an argument on if killing someone is justifiable. If someone had told me something and I had no first hand knowledge at all... I'd take a completely different route.

if i knew nothing about previous allegations and had not seen the rape myself, i would question it as well, and take a different route as you said.

however, this is about as clean cut as it gets:

A.) if Mcqueary's accusations are false, Paterno promotes Mcqueary despite the fact that he makes false accusations about child abuse.

B.) if Mcqueary's accusations are true, Paterno is OK with Sandusky remaining around.

Either of the above options are unacceptable. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that there is something wrong with situations A or B. As head coach, you cant allow something either of those options to go on.

.

[Destino]

He needed to do more. Not legally, but morally.

A ten year old kid was getting anally raped by one of his asst coaches in the shower of his locker room. His response was to tell an administrator that there was some horseplay.

Sandusky was not one of his assistant coaches at the time. The administrators heard more than horseplay. Whatever Paterno told them was enough for them to speak with McQueary about it directly.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Sandusky was no longer with the program by the time the abuse occured, nor employed by Paterno, and supposedly they had very little contact with each other. If Sandusky had remained on PSU's staff then yes, Paterno gets far more scrutiny. I don't think Paterno can say "I don't want this guy using PSU facilities", though given his position, he might have been able to.

The big question in this case can be summed up as "How much responsibility, given Paterno's stature as a football coach and a role model/mentor, does he have for not going above and beyond the organizational and legal SOP for handling cases as disturbing and damaging as this?" (and it's clear he didn't go above and beyond the standard operating procedure).

Another question is - if this had happened at a DIII no name college, would the HC get as much heat as Paterno is getting now?

[sportjunkie07]

Source on this. The 98 allegations did not result in charges, and while it is plausible that Paterno could have known of the investigation (especially seeing that Sandusky was still on his staff), it's equally plausible that he did not, or at worst did not take them seriously once the DA said there'd be no charges.

This is just speculation. It's a striking piece of circumstantial evidence that should be taken seriously, but there's no evidence to support it.

The main issue is Paterno's stature as a coach, which leads people to believe that he was in the know about every issue surrounding the program (even in 1999 he was becoming more of a figurehead, in 2002 that process was more or less complete), and therefore HAD to know about 1999/Victim 6, and HAD to know that Victim 2 was not followed up on (as opposed to it ending the way it did in 1999, with no charges).

Again, we don't know all the facts ( will we ever?) but the only thing RIGHT NOW we can determine that Paterno did wrong was a lack of aggressive follow-up. The real burden of guilt RIGHT NOW falls on Curley and Schulz (and to a lesser extent McQueary who allegedly watched a child being raped and ran away).

Could Paterno have been complicit in a coverup? Of course. But knowing what we know AT THIS MOMENT, we can't definitely say he was.

i agree. we dont know for sure about what he knew. it is circumstantial and possibly coincidental. though when these coincidences happen over and over, its common sense to think that people are turning a blind eye to it. not necessarily proof, but it should be considered and investigated.