Disappointed in Orakpo's Play

[authentic]

I am going to apologize for this post. In the emotion of the loss after I posted something really silly.

I would not include 'Rak in a package to move up to number 1. He is going to be a force on this D for a very long time.

But its been over 24 hours, "Emotion"? Seems like PMS...

[bedlamVR]

He's not even the best linebacker on the team. London Fletcher > everyone. Landry is the second best defensive player. I would even put Atogwa over Orakpo.

And then there's this argument. There's holding every play. Deal with it. Perhaps Orakpo needs to get better at selling it. Or maybe what you see as holding, the refs see as acceptable. But I'm so tired of this argument. I'm sure that our offensive linemen hold as much as anyone else's.

Ware is heads and shoulders a better linebacker than Orakpo

Ware 2010: 66 tackles, 15.5 sacks, 2FF

Orakpo 2010: 56 tackles, 8.5 sacks,1FF

Ware 2009: 57 tackles, 11 sacks, 5FF

Orakpo 2009: 50 tackles, 11 sacks, 1 FF (and 6 passes defended)

Ware is so much better than Orakpo its sad.

Only his third year? Ware had 84 tackles, 14 sacks and 4 forced fumbles in his third year. Ware has become a perennial DPOY candidate.

Orakpo is in his third year, and he still has no real technique. He is poor against the run. He's lost in coverage. He is a pass rushing specialist. No more and no less.

---------- Post added October-24th-2011 at 01:12 PM ----------

I don't think its that he doesn't play hard. Clearly he puts forth effort on the field. I just think its a lack of ability. He's a one trick pony. He bull rushes. Thats it. He's gotten by so long on his athleticism, that he hasn't bothered to develop any skill.

I am not sure you have watched Ware that much in his career either . Ware is has not had a fantastic reputation as a run defender is often out of position and is a liability in coverage (1 Int and 20 defended passes in 6 years) but Ware is quite possibly the most disruptive defensive player in the NFL .

Orakpo is in his 3rd year (2nd in the 3-4) he models his game around Wares game, he might not ever play up to Wares level but if he is a shade behind then that is still a hell of a player. This D is creating opportunities all over the defensive front 7 with 14 sacks (take Ware away and the next most effective pass rusher is Spencer with 3 sacks for Dallas) coming from the defensive line and part of that is because Orakpo ( and Kerrigan) are getting additional attention on the edges .

Orakpo unlike is still young, has the potential to get better if you don't see that i am not sure what to tell you

[bobz18711]

Alot of you guys defend players to the bitter end. I love Orakpo, I said earlier in the season he is the face of our franchise!! I however notice that when we get gashed and run on, it is always on his side!! He gets up field to fast and holds no point to push the run outside. He has shown very little in changing up his rush moves, and just relies on speed and streight. I think that with the fame on commersals and the preasure of having to be the impact player, he is trying to do too much. If he whould just play his part in the defence, he would make the defence beter overall. I just hope he see's this before it's too late. I hope Fletcher takes him to the side and tells him to settle down. Fletcher is a prime example of just doing your job, but not being noticed for how well you do it. But the fans know how much Fletcher means to this team!!!!

[Rickc402]

Orakpo is doing fine, it is how the defense is being called. It all part of Haslett's overload, occasionally he'll bring a LB or a CB as an extra man. Haslett is hoping one of the front five can beat his man.

[sportjunkie07]

ill be the first to tell you that i think orakpo is the most overrated player on the redskins team, and i find myself getting irritated with him often. its not because he is a horrible player or even an average player, it's because he is capable and has the skillset to be much more.

the example with vick that you mentioned, its correct imo. i just knew that play would happen at least once in the game. i have noticed this for a while with orakpo, he makes one full effort attempt to go after the qb, and when he misses, he's on the ground and the other team makes a big play. i first started realizing this when he missed on a tony Romo sits to pee tackle that led to the game winning TD. vick is near impossible to tackle one on one. everyone knows this, why doesnt orakpo? be a smart player, use the correct angles, and push him into the other pass rushers where kerrigan is waiting on the blindside.

its not just that though. his run defense could be an issue, and he is horrible at pass coverage from what ive seen. i just dont think he has a knack for it and i doubt he gets much better in that regard.

orakpo is still young though and he's got a great attitude. he's been working with a new coaching staff and new teammates, and he still has room to improve. i hope he can learn more moves, be a smarter player, and realize his potential. if so we've got an elite player on our hands.

[skins2victory]

Yeah..... He is playing good, and we didnt pick him that early to play good..... He needs to be playing great!!!! Step it up big killa

[justice98]

I think it's pretty much of a case of he's gonna get paid and go to Pro Bowls by getting to the QB. There's a premium on getting to the QB. Orakpo doesn't go 12th in the draft because he can run with TEs. And if he can hit QBs, he can make a lot of money and have a nice long career. Same thing applies to Kerrigan really. It'd be nice if they developed into more well rounded LBs, but we can't forget, they're DE with DE skills still learning to play LB, not safeties playing LB. I don't expect they'd ever really be "good" at covering people.

[Capt Rich Fla]

OP, first of all Vick IS a pretty good athlete. He's gonna get one once in a while. Second, Rak is NOT a corner back. If the keep making him cover ,they deserve everything they get.

[terryb101]

I agree. I'm actually rather surprised other fans feel the same way.

---------- Post added October-23rd-2011 at 06:39 PM ----------

No one on the defense did fine today. No one.

some feel that 1 sack is a good day, i can understand because the way the players pound their chest and strut around after making one play would lead one to think they just won the super bowl..the sad thing is ,is it looks like trent williams has hit his peak as well,,,

[hunterx]

some feel that 1 sack is a good day, i can understand because the way the players pound their chest and strut around after making one play would lead one to think they just won the super bowl..the sad thing is ,is it looks like trent williams has hit his peak as well,,,

I am more anxious to see Trent Williams improve than worry about Orakpo.

[Skinsfan4life83]

I have no problem with Orakpo, our team is ranked in the top ten in sacks due to other teams having to gameplan for Orakpo. While I agree he has been exposed somewhat as far as playing the run goes, I dont think it is something that cannot be corrected. The guy coupled with Kerrigan gives us a LETHAL pass rush combo on the outside. The real probem IMHO is Cofield is not a true Nose tackle. A true nose tackle eats up two blockers at a time and doesnt get pushed back every running play, which seems to be happening alot with Cofield. The success of our linebackers is directly related to our NT.

But sure, lets trade one of our young core players so we can draft Luck and have no one to take Orakpo's place. Sounds like a great move:doh:

---------- Post added October-25th-2011 at 10:33 AM ----------

some feel that 1 sack is a good day, i can understand because the way the players pound their chest and strut around after making one play would lead one to think they just won the super bowl..the sad thing is ,is it looks like trent williams has hit his peak as well,,,

Trent is nowhere near his peak yet. Its only his second year for gods sake. His run blocking is phenominal, his pass blocking is excellent at times, he just needs to be more consistent. Making a judgement like that after only two years is kinda laughable.

[terryb101]

I have no problem with Orakpo, our team is ranked in the top ten in sacks due to other teams having to gameplan for Orakpo. While I agree he has been exposed somewhat as far as playing the run goes, I dont think it is something that cannot be corrected. The guy coupled with Kerrigan gives us a LETHAL pass rush combo on the outside. The real probem IMHO is Cofield is not a true Nose tackle. A true nose tackle eats up two blockers at a time and doesnt get pushed back every running play, which seems to be happening alot with Cofield. The success of our linebackers is directly related to our NT.

But sure, lets trade one of our young core players so we can draft Luck and have no one to take Orakpo's place. Sounds like a great move:doh:

---------- Post added October-25th-2011 at 10:33 AM ----------

Trent is nowhere near his peak yet. Its only his second year for gods sake. His run blocking is phenominal, his pass blocking is excellent at times, he just needs to be more consistent. Making a judgement like that after only two years is kinda laughable.

really? you cant watch a player to see if he looks like he will get better? fat albert ring a bell? how bout timmy smith? of course you may be to young to remeber him, ryan leaf? heath schuler.?.on ansd on..come on man you can tell how good someone is by watching them for a couple of years? i didnt say he wasnt any good, i just think he may have peaked, ok how about this, he isnt as good as advertised,or over hyped, is that better? 2 years and 2 injuries, he isnt at full speed anymore and if he gets hurt again will be even harder to improve....

[Skinsfan4life83]

really? you cant watch a player to see if he looks like he will get better? fat albert ring a bell? how bout timmy smith? of course you may be to young to remeber him, ryan leaf? heath schuler.?.on ansd on..come on man you can tell how good someone is by watching them for a couple of years? i didnt say he wasnt any good, i just think he may have peaked, ok how about this, he isnt as good as advertised,or over hyped, is that better? 2 years and 2 injuries, he isnt at full speed anymore and if he gets hurt again will be even harder to improve....

Ok all the ????? marks confuse me but here goes. I disagree with you that Trent has peaked. Two years into a NFL career is waaaaaay too early to say anyone has peaked. It's ludicrous. I never said you can't watch a player to see if he will improve, if that is what you are saying, be more specific. As far as Orakpo goes his success depends on the three guys in front of him having success as well, its what the 3-4 is all about.

[MATPskins]

Let's face it guys, at this point in his career he is a bit over-rated mostly by redskins fans. Brian baldinger brought up a great point in a recent chat with john keim I think. He said something along the lines of orakpo not being elite because teams do not need to game plan for him. Most of you are blinded by the fact that yes he is a one trick pony with one pass rush move. No spins no inside moves? Anyone remember the article where Dwight freeney called out Brian orakpo in fan voting? I do.

Deangelo halls comments after the giants game still stick with me. He was praising kerrigan when they asked him a question about the rooks big play and he mentioned Orakpo saying, "yea we were teasing Rak in the locker room like man what's this your 3rd season and you ain't even touch the ball?"

When we need a big play he's no where to be found. Sacks are great but you need to create game changing plays to be considered elite- which to my knowledge his most recent game changing play is on special teams blocking a FG.

The sack on Cam? Great when your unblocked, but no turnover and they burned us on the very next play. Don't trade the guy but seriously wake up people he's good, just not elite. ala Landry a few years ago.

[Est.1974]

I think he can be used more effectively if Haslett moved him around more and I'm hoping they put that into the gameplan.

I think the coaches should take some of the blame - I said in another thread that I felt we were being out-coached. It seems obvious to me that team have watched our pre-BYE games & have game planned accordingly. They are keeping Kerrigan out of the game whilst attacking Orakpo's weakness in the run. And we have done nothing in return to negate that, imo.

[ST21]

I think the coaches should take some of the blame - I said in another thread that I felt we were being out-coached. It seems obvious to me that team have watched our pre-BYE games & have game planned accordingly. They are keeping Kerrigan out of the game whilst attacking Orakpo's weakness in the run. And we have done nothing in return to negate that' date=' imo.[/quote']

I disagree about Kerrigan.....just b/c he is not getting sacks does not mean he is not being disruptive and playing at a high level. I think he plays smart and just does not takeoff upfield!!!

[Est.1974]

I disagree about Kerrigan.....just b/c he is not getting sacks does not mean he is not being disruptive and playing at a high level. I think he plays smart and just does not takeoff upfield!!!

I also think he's playing to a high level, I just think teams have game planned to reduce the 'impact' his play is having on the game.

[Skinsfan4life83]

It just seems that when the team starts losing people want to blame anyone they can. Even if said player is a young talented core guy. Orakpo has lots of room to improve but again so does the rest of the defense. I would take him anyday if I were trying to build a championship defense. I also bet Haslett wouldn't give this guy up very easily. Before rak got here our defenses couldn't buy a sack. Now that we are in the top half in sacks fans want to nit pick something else. Some people are never gonna be happy.

[Renegade7]

You're stuck on accolades and we're talking about the things that would make him be the dominant player we all envisioned him being. Yes, he won NFC Defensive Player of the Week...but who was it against again? Furthermore, the last time he won that award who was it against? And what do those two teams have in common? I'd like nothing more than to see him get one on a week when we play a divisional opponent.

Pro Bowls mean little to nothing because of how they're decided. Especially when players make Pro Bowls because other players decline to play, or are injured. I think All-Pro accolades are a better indicator of someone being elite.

I'm not saying to trade him or cut him. But it's certainly disappointing to think that Orakpo's ceiling right now consists of making plays on less than 10% of the snaps he's in for.

JC, man, I'm not stuck on anything. The fact is he's only a third year player and the rest of the league recognizes him as one of the better OLBs in the league right now already. He'll only get better, and I'm satisfied with his current play keeping this in mind. Lay off the man already.

[abdcskins]

I agree about Cooley, but seriously? Trade Orakpo for a second round pick? That sounds absolutely insane. I just checked this thread for the first time are people actually campaigning for this?

He's a great player. Could he improve against the run? Sure. But let's not get crazy here. Who do we have that is better at LB, or defense as a whole? No one.

*edit* Meh I meant to quote someone guess it didn't work. He was saying trade Orakpo for a second round pick.

[tiger187126]

carolina this year has only run 19% of their plays off of left end/tackle. seemed like they ran more than that against the skins.

and for an example the redskins run 48% of their plays off of left end/tackle.

[DCranon21]

I think we as fans get down on our best players as if they were not trying. Why trade Orakpo again? I think someone on this board said he'd be a liability in pass coverage. It doesn't come over night as he is in the 2nd season of this new defense. First year he had his hand down in a 4-3. Now we are asking him to be a DeMarcus Ware type of player and how long has Ware been in a 3-4 again? Mobile QB's will make the best OLB in the business look like a fool. Yes Cam had some nasty run's in the game, but did anyone catch how he was throwing the ball? He put the ball in places where his receivers could catch it. I don't even think he had an interception in the game. He's a player that will get it as time comes, but this is game 22 in a new defense(not counting pre-season). I think we need to look at other issues instead of saying player X is disappointing.

---------- Post added October-25th-2011 at 06:56 PM ----------

carolina this year has only run 19% of their plays off of left end/tackle. seemed like they ran more than that against the skins.

and for an example the redskins run 48% of their plays off of left end/tackle.

I guess Rivera seen something on the left side if you take away Orakpo and whatever DE is on that side.

[megared]

JC, man, I'm not stuck on anything. The fact is he's only a third year player and the rest of the league recognizes him as one of the better OLBs in the league right now already. He'll only get better, and I'm satisfied with his current play keeping this in mind. Lay off the man already.

That's exactly what you're doing. You just listed his individual accolades as some justification as to why we shouldn't have expectations of him to do other things. Bottom line is, he's a good pass rusher, and that's great. But in order for our defense to be good, we need guys to perform their responsibilities and perform as a unit. I just don't get the mindset, especially when we have someone like Fletcher that does everything he can to help the defense. I'm sure he'd rather be rushing the QB rather than dropping back in coverage too.

I've never seen a team go into a game with the plan of attacking DeMarcus Ware in the run game. Quite frankly, I'm surprised teams waited until now to attack Rak in the run game.

The Vick example was to point out that he could've taken a good angle, and attacked him in a controlled manner, and possibly forced a poor throw, or forced him into pressure coming from elsewhere. I know people love Rak, but to me, that play fell into one of two categories: either a selfish brand of ball, or a stupid one. Do you think it's a coincidence that suddenly Carriker is getting more sacks with Kerrigan over there? Having Kerrigan do many things as an OLB, as a rookie no less, is really accenting how much Orakpo can do to improve himself and take "that next step".

[MrMoore]

Rak gets the job done but he has to reach his potential. He only has ONE rush move (Bull Rush) and he doesnt use his HANDS well. He should watch more D.Ware film. Rak is stronger than Ware but Ware has some long ass arms and he's hands never stop moving.

[rocskins]

Rak gets the job done but he has to reach his potential. He only has ONE rush move (Bull Rush) and he doesnt use his HANDS well. He should watch more D.Ware film. Rak is stronger than Ware but Ware has some long ass arms and he's hands never stop moving.

I'm guessing that you have been to the weight room with both ware and rak huh? How do you know that Rak is stronger? Just curious.