Why John Beck is Likely to Win the Job

[ZoEd]

My biggest problem with Grossman is his mechanics. He thinks he can muscle the ball with his arm and doesn't really care about his feet and which leg he's throwing off of. In a nutshell, his gift is his curse, he relies too much on his arm strength and that's why he's prone to INT's. I also don't really like Grossmans pocket awareness. There are times when he's so zoned in on the WR that he's oblivious to the backside pressure, and typically with Rex, this means fumble.

Beck, he's not going to light it up down field, but I think he's good enough to connect deep when need be. I have yet to see him throw off the wrong foot or make a horribly risky throw, but I haven't had the luxury of watching every game either. Beck seems to feel pressure well and doesn't hold on to the ball too long, which hopefully means less sacks.

I like Rex, I think he's a solid guy but I think Beck brings more to the table with his athleticism and decision making ability. We'll see, we shall see.

[GWinSkins83]

If Beck's ability to run the stretch over Rex is as evident as you think, then it should be a no-brainer decision by Kyle and Mike who is better equipped to run the offense. I frankly don't think it's as cut and dry as that and feel there are more variables in play. Beck looked good - I just think Rex was better.

So you didnt see the run game get chunks of yards with Beck in there? Who was in there with Hightowers longest runs? And Helu? And in which way is Rex better option experience? Thats about it. And like people said if him and Beck are about even now when Beck is less experience what do you think it will be when Beck has more playing time. I think this offense has more to attack a defense with when Beck is in there.

[polywog999]

Don't forget the TD pass Grossman had on the bad snap while being blitzed

All in all I would feel decent with either starting for us this season. I would rather see Grossman start week 1 and give him half the season. If we have 4+ wins (of course that does depend on how he is playing) keep him in and let's see how this plays out. If we have >4 wins (again, depending on his play) put Beck in and let's see what we have for 2012.

One thing I have learned about Shanny, he would rather stick with the player who will be better in the long run.

[daveakl]

One thing I have learned about Shanny, he would rather stick with the player who will be better in the long run.

100% agree (look at the situation with Cutler and Plummer in Denver).

[GWinSkins83]

How often has Beck been out there facing the 1's on defense?

A couple of series against the Colts and a couple of series against the Ravens. In that time he played with the 1's on offense.

Compare that to Rex going against the Steelers' 1's and then the Ravens' 1's. Rex wins this comparison hands down.

I just do not see how Beck has "won" the job based on the time he has been given with the 1's. Of the two, it appears Rex is being prepped to start and not Beck.

As for the subject of the thread and Beck's "talent" and "potential". If the guy was 25, I could see it. But he's 30, only 1 year younger than Grossman. I don't see that he has anymore of an upside in this offense than Rex does. In fact with Beck it's all speculation on what people hope he can do. Rex has already shown how well he understands this offense last year and has only looked better so far this year. I can't fathom how Beck is viewed as having an upside and Rex not.

If Shanahan does tap Beck as his opening day starter, it would be a huge upset in my opinion and a very big leap of faith. Beck will go into that game having faced a 1st string defense maybe a total of 5 or 6 series (assuming he starts the Tampa game and depending on how long the Bucs keep in their 1's). Again, not exactly the textbook way you prep an inexperienced QB for the regular season.

How has Rex won hands down lol? Who has the better passing stats? Who while in there the offense been in scoring drives? Potential is what he has more then Grossman. He hasnt played in but 4 games he can improve. For one Beck went on a missionarybefore college so career wise he is still young to the game. That is a fact. Yeah he is 30 years old but he is young in football terms because of he started later than most. Against the 1st teamers he has had success. I mean no one can dispute that no matter how you cut it. I don't get this Rex love I mean yeah he show greatness but you know he will have games where you will get 3 turnovers. People want to go the Bears but we are not the Bears and our division is harder than those team when he was playing. I'm sorry but you are really hoping for the best when you go Rex way. Because we KNOW he will have stretches when he is a turnover machine. I mean you people act like this dude is even top 25 in the league of QBs and he's not.

[rookieskin]

Beck will start for one single reason:

UPSIDE.

How many weeks will it be till a commentator admits, "Well I guess the Skins have a better QB situation than we all figured on"

Grossman may be the best back-up in the league. (Assuming Beck wins the job)

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

How often has Beck been out there facing the 1's on defense?

A couple of series against the Colts and a couple of series against the Ravens. In that time he played with the 1's on offense.

Compare that to Rex going against the Steelers' 1's and then the Ravens' 1's. Rex wins this comparison hands down.

I just do not see how Beck has "won" the job based on the time he has been given with the 1's. Of the two, it appears Rex is being prepped to start and not Beck.

As for the subject of the thread and Beck's "talent" and "potential". If the guy was 25, I could see it. But he's 30, only 1 year younger than Grossman. I don't see that he has anymore of an upside in this offense than Rex does. In fact with Beck it's all speculation on what people hope he can do. Rex has already shown how well he understands this offense last year and has only looked better so far this year. I can't fathom how Beck is viewed as having an upside and Rex not.

If Shanahan does tap Beck as his opening day starter, it would be a huge upset in my opinion and a very big leap of faith. Beck will go into that game having faced a 1st string defense maybe a total of 5 or 6 series (assuming he starts the Tampa game and depending on how long the Bucs keep in their 1's). Again, not exactly the textbook way you prep an inexperienced QB for the regular season.

:applause:

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

How often has Beck been out there facing the 1's on defense?

A couple of series against the Colts and a couple of series against the Ravens. In that time he played with the 1's on offense.

Compare that to Rex going against the Steelers' 1's and then the Ravens' 1's. Rex wins this comparison hands down.

I just do not see how Beck has "won" the job based on the time he has been given with the 1's. Of the two, it appears Rex is being prepped to start and not Beck.

As for the subject of the thread and Beck's "talent" and "potential". If the guy was 25, I could see it. But he's 30, only 1 year younger than Grossman. I don't see that he has anymore of an upside in this offense than Rex does. In fact with Beck it's all speculation on what people hope he can do. Rex has already shown how well he understands this offense last year and has only looked better so far this year. I can't fathom how Beck is viewed as having an upside and Rex not.

If Shanahan does tap Beck as his opening day starter, it would be a huge upset in my opinion and a very big leap of faith. Beck will go into that game having faced a 1st string defense maybe a total of 5 or 6 series (assuming he starts the Tampa game and depending on how long the Bucs keep in their 1's). Again, not exactly the textbook way you prep an inexperienced QB for the regular season.

I've had fun with my threads on this topic, but here's my honest opinion:

• Mike Shanahan is going with Grossman as starter against the Giants. This was always the plan, since the end of last season.
  
• Shanahan's confidence in Grossman, after last season, was relatively weak. This is Grossman didn't get a big multi-year contract. (Supposedly he was offered a cheap multi-year contract to be the starter, and Grossman declined that contract.)
  
• Like a lot of people, Shanahan needs to see Grossman last an NFL season without melting down, before he believes it. Kyle Shanahan's confidence in Grossman has always been higher. The McNabb trade came because Mike Shanahan didn't have anything close to full confidence in Grossman, even less in Campbell, and couldn't get a trade done with the Rams to pick Bradford.
  
• By the end of last season, Shanahan saw enough in Grossman to believe that he could go into 2011 with Grossman as the starter. However, he saw 2011 as a rebuilding year, so didn't put a lot of stock into that choice. He probably felt that Grossman was only a 50/50 shot to last a full seaons as starter, with a strong chance of going into the tank or getting injured.
  
• Shanahan liked John Beck a lot, both for his tools and his personal quality. Classic coach's pet. Shanahan felt that he could hedge his bets with Grossman while also checking Grossman's ego, by prepping Beck in open competition with Grossman.
  
• It was always Grossman's job to lose, and Grossman has done nothing to lose it.
  
• Beck was brought along on a slower development cycle this preseason, anticipating that he would be the backup. Against the Colts, they put in the checkdown / screen game. Against the Ravens, they put in the short passing game and a few deep flies. Beck will play the longest against the Bucs, and here they will have Beck focus on the midrange passing game and also a 2-minute drill.
  
• Beck has zero chance to start against the Giants (barring injury to Grossman). Shanahan's confidence in Grossman has been considerably strengthened. However, Shanahan still wonders if "Bad Rex" will reemerge, and is delighted with the progress by Beck.
  
• Grossman will have a "2 bad game" quota. If he tanks 2 games in a row, Shanahan will either prep Beck for the third game or be ready to pull Grossman early in the third game.
  
• Shanahan thinks he can win with either QB, but has more confidence that Grossman can get it done against the best defenses in high-pressure situations. With Beck, he mainly wants to protect his development and ensure that Beck builds confidence.
  

[GWinSkins83]

I get that our offense is a mix of the Shanahan's and obviously Mike isn't just going to roll over and give it all to his son. With that being said, Kyle is much more pass-oriented (although he has publicly said we need to run the ball more and will with a better running game this year) but look at his quarterback in Houston. Funny that you mention Schaub as someone the offense could not reach it's full potential under, yet look what he did with Kyle as the OC.

I see what you're saying about Beck being a better fit in the overall scheme and with the smaller O-line but Grossman has not really shown himself to be a liability in the same scheme. He gets the ball out quick to avoid pressure and has done very well in bootlegs/rollouts and throwing on the move. While he is not as mobile as Beck and less likely to scramble, he has done very well playing within the system rolling out and finding receivers. Again, as I have continued to say, look at the disparity between Grossman and Beck when it comes to getting the ball to the RECEIVERS instead of the backs and allowing them to make plays. That is huge on offense and our receivers have a lot of playmaking potential.

I want to ask you a question. What receive has look the best in the preseason? Who has given his shot to look good? I think that would be Beck. Yeah Grossman has more chemistry with Tana but why dont you think Beck can't get that too. While ya'll saying all this and that about rbs even though Brady and Brees go to their rbs alot too. He still has a higher yards per att. Its no disputing that. He gives what the defense gives him and it works for the best of QBs. We want to give Rex the benfit because he has more experience but it doesnt really shows when the offense runs better with Beck in it. Im sorry but Beck is the better option this Offense can do more with him in it.

[MariusVT]

While Rex has played well, has a good grasp on the system and can definitely get it done. However, I think it comes down to the way plays have been called this preseason. When Rex is under center they keep him in the pocket. When they bring in Beck they run all kinds of boot legs and get him moving around. Shanahan's offense is based on mobility and Beck has shown enough I think that his greater mobility will put him as the starter, not because Rex has done anything to lose himself the starting gig. They've both made some great throws and some poor ones.

[Oldfan]

...If Shanahan does tap Beck as his opening day starter, it would be a huge upset in my opinion and a very big leap of faith. Beck will go into that game having faced a 1st string defense maybe a total of 5 or 6 series (assuming he starts the Tampa game and depending on how long the Bucs keep in their 1's). Again, not exactly the textbook way you prep an inexperienced QB for the regular season.

I think that Shanahans saw John Beck as their QB going forward for the next five or six years based on his skillset. The only thing they couldn't see was how he would handle the pressure. That's why the competition mattered to them. They had to see that Beck wouldn't fold under the pressure.

He didn't.

[Hitman21ST]

How many weeks will it be till a commentator admits, "Well I guess the Skins have a better QB situation than we all figured on"

Mike Golic already said that on Friday.

[ZoEd]

Beck will start for one single reason:

UPSIDE.

How many weeks will it be till a commentator admits, "Well I guess the Skins have a better QB situation than we all figured on"

Grossman may be the best back-up in the league. (Assuming Beck wins the job)

Actually, Mike and Mike said just that Friday. "I guess the Redskins QB situation isn't as bad as we thought, it looks like both these guys can run this offense".

[KDawg]

Yeah, that one he threw in the dirt when Tana was open for the 3rd down conversion was very Brees-esque

I've seen Grossman throw a few in the dirt as well.

I have a really hard time understanding why everyone has to want one or the other.

I want the one that Shanahan thinks gives us the best chance... short term, long term, whatever. They've played pretty much dead even. I don't get why there has to be sides...

[washedup2]

Grossman would be a better #2 QB coming off the bench than Beck.....Beck has more upside, thats why Beck starts.

[Oldfan]

I've seen Grossman throw a few in the dirt as well.

I have a really hard time understanding why everyone has to want one or the other.

I want the one that Shanahan thinks gives us the best chance... short term, long term, whatever. They've played pretty much dead even. I don't get why there has to be sides...

It's simply a matter of betting which way the Shanahans will go on a very interesting call.

Am I right or wrong with this conclusion in your opinion?

The bottom line: An athletic, mobile QB in the Shanahan offense permits the offense to be run at its full potential and makes the O-line’s pass protection job easier. That’s why John Beck is a better fit for the Shanahan offense than Rex Grossman and why he’s likely to win the job.

[KingGibbs]

You're now just realizing this Oldfan?

[Oldfan]

ASF ~ I've had fun with my threads on this topic, but here's my honest opinion:

Mike Shanahan is going with Grossman as starter against the Giants. This was always the plan, since the end of last season.

In the OP, I gave reasons to support my claim that Beck is likely to start. I read your post and it amounts to several claims that you can read the minds of the Shanahans.

[JustAfan47]

Wow, I don't think you could have described my feelings on this one more perfectly---If you were to switch the names around.

I literally feel the exact opposite way.

Lol I was bout to quote the same thing to NoCalMike.

[JaxJoe]

It's simply a matter of betting which way the Shanahans will go on a very interesting call.

Am I right or wrong with this conclusion in your opinion?

The bottom line: An athletic, mobile QB in the Shanahan offense permits the offense to be run at its full potential and makes the O-line’s pass protection job easier. That’s why John Beck is a better fit for the Shanahan offense than Rex Grossman and why he’s likely to win the job.

You're absolutely correct, Oldfan. I keep seeing people argue tit-for-tat these past few week's worth of QB stats without understanding your OP. I think Hillary said it best "It's the system, stupid!" A more-mobile and highly accurate (74%) short-field passer is essential to the greater success of the ZBS that utilizes smaller lineman to spread the field. Throw in a quality deep ball here and there, and, BINGO! Grossman still shows that he's a pocket passer, as he has done admirably well when playing in this fashion. But it's hard to argue that he's had more success than Beck in this system. The drive charts show Beck is more successful when you look at the outcome of those drives (TDs vs punts). And to say that the Colts were some pansy team: Did anyone see them man-handle the super bowl champs this past week??

Thus, a Beck-type passer 'validates' the system so that the 'system' can gel, and improve over the course of this season. Then, when that certain franchise QB comes available in the draft, you grab him, let him learn for a season or two, and start him over the next 10 years. That is, I believe, what Shanahan is thinking when selecting a QB to play this season. Not just the success for this season, but to polish his 'system' so that a drafted 'system' QB can slip right in for the future years. I hope I'm making sense.

[greenspandan]

the writing is on the wall. Beck will start against the Giants. it takes an extremely weird, almost conspiracy-minded reading of events to believe Rex has the advantage.

[KDawg]

It's simply a matter of betting which way the Shanahans will go on a very interesting call.

Am I right or wrong with this conclusion in your opinion?

The bottom line: An athletic, mobile QB in the Shanahan offense permits the offense to be run at its full potential and makes the O-line’s pass protection job easier. That’s why John Beck is a better fit for the Shanahan offense than Rex Grossman and why he’s likely to win the job.

I agree with that statement if the Shanahan's offense is exactly what we think it is. Problem is, we don't know what his offense is. They may have made some changes in the playbook. We'll have to wait to see.

[Stadium-Armory]

Rex seems faster to me. More speed.

I'll have to go back and watch some of the games and look specifically for how the QBs move. I agree with Oldfans assessment that the more athletic QB should be the pick, but I wonder if Beck is the better athlete.

[tiger187126]

we've already shanny make the decision about bigger upside over more polished on a pretty big stage picking trent williams over russell okung.

i just don't get why so many people feel like having a better chance to win on a team most optimists admit is going to top out around 8 wins is more important than seeing what a guy that no one really knows about, but who has looked comparable to your "guaranteed win" guy.

me personally, i'd rather go 7-9 with a guy with upside than 8-8 with a guy who is who we thought he is and is never going to get better.

[Oldfan]

...Thus, a Beck-type passer 'validates' the system so that the 'system' can gel, and improve over the course of this season. Then, when that certain franchise QB comes available in the draft, you grab him, let him learn for a season or two, and start him over the next 10 years. That is, I believe, what Shanahan is thinking when selecting a QB to play this season. Not just the success for this season, but to polish his 'system' so that a drafted 'system' QB can slip right in for the future years. I hope I'm making sense.

I don't know what if any plan Mike has for drafting a QB. But, the immediate advantage of John Beck is that he enables the coaches to evaluate other players. For example, the rollout deep pass to Stallworth that was intercepted showed the value of a Brandon Marshall type receiver in this scheme. Marshall in Denver's 2008 offense would probably have caught that pass or would have drawn an interference call on the corner.