Why John Beck is Likely to Win the Job

[Oldfan]

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In other threads I claimed that John Beck would be a better fit than Rex Grossman for the Shanahan scheme. Here, I will elaborate on the reasoning to support that claim.

The concept known as zone blocking had been around for a long time before Alex Gibbs built an entire running game based on it. Its signature running play has been the Zone Stretch. Like Lombardi’s Green Bay Sweep, it is the play that, when well executed, is hard to stop even when the defense knows it’s coming.

The boot-action off a well-run Zone Stretch gives defenses fits the way play-action did for Bart Starr off Lombardi’s Sweep. The difference is that Bart Starr didn’t have to be the mobile, athletic-type QB who could throw on the move like John Elway, Jake Plummer or Jay Cutler. When the Shanahan offense is run by a QB with limited mobility, like a Matt Schaub type, it can’t be run at its full potential.

One of the drawbacks of the ZBS is that the more athletic O-linemen it requires are usually smaller and not as good in pass protection as their beefier power-blocking counterparts. That disadvantage can be negated by moving the QB and making his setup location less predictable than that of the dropback pocket passer.

SMcQ and I had a discussion in another thread. We figured out that Ryan Clady’s 2008 rookie season was overrated when he was charged with just 1.5 sacks. Clady was near the NFL top in QB pressures allowed that season. His reputation has gone a little South since then. The difference is that in 2008 Clady was part of a unit that allowed an NFL low 12 sacks for the entire year because Mike Shanahan had the very mobile Jay Cutler on the move. The pass protection scheme made that line look better than it really was.

Grossman has an edge in experience, but Beck can match that rather quickly if he's given the starting job. But, Grossman will never match Beck's edge in athleticism, mobility and scheme fit.

The bottom line: An athletic, mobile QB in the Shanahan offense permits the offense to be run at its full potential and makes the O-line’s pass protection job easier. That’s why John Beck is a better fit for the Shanahan offense than Rex Grossman and why he’s likely to win the job.

[RemoveSnyder]

Milk and cookies kept you awake, eh, Sebastian?

[rick1796]

Agreed on all points.

I also believe they Shanahan's believe that Beck is only scratching his pro potential, and the Grosman is the more "developed" QB. I quote developed because I mean he is more set in his ways, more immaleable. Beck both has room and desire to improve, andI I think the Shanahan's are valuing that.

[21cents]

Beck has shown accuracy of drew brees, and timing the throws like peyton. If he puts his game together he could very well be a great qb. His game reminds me more of steve young/aaron rodgers type.

[rick1796]

Beck has shown accuracy of drew brees, and timing the throws like peyton. If he puts his game together he could very well be a great qb. His game reminds me more of steve young/aaron rodgers type.

Now THAT is someone drinking the koolaid. Little overboard in my opinion, but he has looked pretty good.

[TSO]

I totally agree that John Beck is the more mobile QB, and thus, may be a better fit... but is Grossman that immobile? I think he runs the bootleg fairly well in my humble opinion. I've seen them run it with him many times and he has even made the free defender coming at him miss. I just don't think Grossman is as woefully immobile as we make him sometimes. But yeah, Beck is far more athletic.

[Oldfan]

I totally agree that John Beck is the more mobile QB, and thus, may be a better fit... but is Grossman that immobile? I think he runs the bootleg fairly well in my humble opinion. I've seen them run it with him many times and he has even made the free defender coming at him miss. I just don't think Grossman is as woefully immobile as we make him sometimes. But yeah, Beck is far more athletic.

I wouldn't describe Rex as "woefully immobile," but there is a big difference between him and Beck both in mobility and ability to throw on the move, IMO.

[ddub52]

Beck has shown accuracy of drew brees, and timing the throws like peyton. If he puts his game together he could very well be a great qb. His game reminds me more of steve young/aaron rodgers type.

Yeah, that one he threw in the dirt when Tana was open for the 3rd down conversion was very Brees-esque

[s0crates]

Well I still think the competition is too close to call, but I think Oldfan is right about Beck's mobility making him a good fit for this offense. Maybe he can be a poor man's version of that other BYU quarterback.

I do not think mobility is the only reason Beck would be a good fit though. Beck's accuracy (74% this preseason) is great for an offense that relies on timing and precision passing.

Beck also seems to make good decisions. He has had a couple bad throws, but I have yet to see any bad reads.

I would not count Rex out though. Rex has moxie, and he has made some great throws. He has a lot of potential too, if he could only cut down on the mistakes.

[SkinsFTW]

Funny thing is that they will be dragging this out until after we receive the kick and take the field against the Giants. I still think they will go with Grossman though. Shanahan isn't one to build players up that much in the media unless he has a motive.

[NoCalMike]

From what I have seen from both QBs thus far in preseason, the only way I see Grossman winning the job is if Shanahan feels that Beck doesn't have enough of a grasp on the entire offensive play book.

When you look at the 2 QBs, Beck just has some intangibles that Grossman doesn't. Beck is more mobile, strong arm, and probably better decision making. The offense feels like it is capable of more when he is under center. The potential to score on any given play feels truly possible. With Grossman you get the feeling it will always have to be a slow methodical drive which usually means having to convert a ton of 3rd downs.

[Pedro]

Would be interesting to see how far opposing DL run when each of our two QBs are in the game. With Beck it looks like they have to do more of the sideline to sideline running as it's not only hand offs to the RB on stretch plays that forces it, the play action rollout induces it too. As DTs are getting bigger this has to have a cumulitive effect as the game progresses.

After last season I would have been happy with Grossman at QB because of the tempo difference between himself and McNabb. This off season opposing teams have to commit everyone to the stretch play to consistently stop it (result of faster RBs?), but if they don't leave someone on the back side Beck has an easy pass/scramble..... I'm loving how we're looking at times.

One point about the ZBS is it doesn't require smaller more athletic OL, it requires athletic OL. The problem is big athletic OL tend to go early (see Trent Williams) so by default under sized guys have to be used in some spots. Looking at our OL Licht and Chester look to be the undersized athletic guys while Mont and our Tackles look 'full' size and still get to the second level.

Re: Beck likely to win the job, in the Grossman interview after the Ravens game his body language makes me think he knows too. Grossman looked a good QB, Beck looked a good QB for this system. He saw that as well as we did.

[TSO]

I wouldn't describe Rex as "woefully immobile," but there is a big difference between him and Beck both in mobility and ability to throw on the move, IMO.

Agreed, but if the biggest reason we would go with Beck is due to his better mobility over Grossman's, and if Grossman's mobility isn't necessarily poor... then is that enough of an advantage that Beck has over Grossman to warrant him being awarded the job? I'm not so sure. I think Beck needs to have something else other than that. It's just not as big of a factor in my mind.

[Pedro]

Agreed, but if the biggest reason we would go with Beck is due to his better mobility over Grossman's, and if Grossman's mobility isn't necessarily poor... then is that enough of an advantage that Beck has over Grossman to warrant him being awarded the job? I'm not so sure. I think Beck needs to have something else other than that. It's just not as big of a factor in my mind.

Looking at it from the Grossman better pocket passer angle, by game 10 of Beck starting that may not be the case, whereas game 10 of Grossman starting won't narrow or reverse the mobility aspect.

[Conn]

The offense feels like it is capable of more when he [beck] is under center. The potential to score on any given play feels truly possible. With Grossman you get the feeling it will always have to be a slow methodical drive which usually means having to convert a ton of 3rd downs.

Wow, I don't think you could have described my feelings on this one more perfectly---If you were to switch the names around.

I literally feel the exact opposite way.

[polywog999]

Milk and cookies kept you awake, eh, Sebastian?

Checkmate...I think.

Have to agree with Old Fan here. If you watch Beck, he also has more pocket awareness, and better mechanics.

A very telling play was the bad snap from Monty that Beck very quickly handled. I don't think many QB's could have made that play.

Grossman has the potential to be a very good starter - Beck could end up being a Top 5 type player. He will still need time to put it together. With Shanny as his coach, he can do it.

[Chump Bailey]

I've thought Beck can be successful and I do like him. My fantasy football team is BelieversnBeck. After having watched both QB's so far, as of right now, I think Rex is the frontrunner. I'm not disagreeing with any of your points OF. I really can't describe in words what it is specifically about Beck that gives me pause. Bottom line for me:

I think if Beck is the starting QB against the Giants we start the season off with a loss. Rex frustrates me because of the INT's, but the offense SEEMED crisper overall when he was at the helm. Maybe my mind will change Thursday.

[GWinSkins83]

I've thought Beck can be successful and I do like him. My fantasy football team is BelieversnBeck. After having watched both QB's so far, as of right now, I think Rex is the frontrunner. I'm not disagreeing with any of your points OF. I really can't describe in words what it is specifically about Beck that gives me pause. Bottom line for me:

I think if Beck is the starting QB against the Giants we start the season off with a loss. Rex frustrates me because of the INT's, but the offense SEEMED crisper overall when he was at the helm. Maybe my mind will change Thursday.

I dont agree with you with the Offense look crisper overall with Grossman in there. For one Beck has a better completion and averages more yard pre ATT. Also it seem all the big runs is when Beck is in there which goes to what OLDFAN points too with the stretch play. Im pretty sure the offense adverage more yards per play with Beck in there. Also just because it looks more crisper shouldnt get the nod. Which one has had more scoring results?

[Skinsinparadise]

I'd also add that the zone stretch running sets up the bootleg/play action with the QB running in the opposite direction of where the run is set up, the faster the QB gets there the more likely they can take advantage of misdirecting the defense and thus have an open passing lane and also it should set up a running lane for the QB if he wants to scamper for 5-10 yards. We've seen Beck do this not so much Grossman. Again mobility helps. A scrambling QB also adds to one of the purposes of the combination of the stretch zone run and cut blocking which is also a staple of Shanny's offense and that is to tire the opponent's defense. You want to make the defense run all around the field, cut block them to get them on the ground partly so they have to get up, over time part of the idea is exhaust the opposition.

[Chump Bailey]

I dont agree with you with the Offense look crisper overall with Grossman in there. For one Beck has a better completion and averages more yard pre ATT. Also it seem all the big runs is when Beck is in there which goes to what OLDFAN points too with the stretch play. Im pretty sure the offense adverage more yards per play with Beck in there. Also just because it looks more crisper shouldnt get the nod. Which one has had more scoring results?

If Beck's ability to run the stretch over Rex is as evident as you think, then it should be a no-brainer decision by Kyle and Mike who is better equipped to run the offense. I frankly don't think it's as cut and dry as that and feel there are more variables in play. Beck looked good - I just think Rex was better.

[Mania]

I agree with OF and will add that, in my opinion I feel that Beck has more upside than Grossman. That being said, I feel both qbs could be successful in this offense.

[daveakl]

Have to agree with Old Fan here. If you watch Beck, he also has more pocket awareness, and better mechanics.

A very telling play was the bad snap from Monty that Beck very quickly handled. I don't think many QB's could have made that play.

Grossman has the potential to be a very good starter - Beck could end up being a Top 5 type player. He will still need time to put it together. With Shanny as his coach, he can do it.

Don't forget the TD pass Grossman had on the bad snap while being blitzed

All in all I would feel decent with either starting for us this season. I would rather see Grossman start week 1 and give him half the season. If we have 4+ wins (of course that does depend on how he is playing) keep him in and let's see how this plays out. If we have >4 wins (again, depending on his play) put Beck in and let's see what we have for 2012.

[scruffylookin]

I dont agree with you with the Offense look crisper overall with Grossman in there. For one Beck has a better completion and averages more yard pre ATT. Also it seem all the big runs is when Beck is in there which goes to what OLDFAN points too with the stretch play. Im pretty sure the offense adverage more yards per play with Beck in there. Also just because it looks more crisper shouldnt get the nod. Which one has had more scoring results?

How often has Beck been out there facing the 1's on defense?

A couple of series against the Colts and a couple of series against the Ravens. In that time he played with the 1's on offense.

Compare that to Rex going against the Steelers' 1's and then the Ravens' 1's. Rex wins this comparison hands down.

I just do not see how Beck has "won" the job based on the time he has been given with the 1's. Of the two, it appears Rex is being prepped to start and not Beck.

As for the subject of the thread and Beck's "talent" and "potential". If the guy was 25, I could see it. But he's 30, only 1 year younger than Grossman. I don't see that he has anymore of an upside in this offense than Rex does. In fact with Beck it's all speculation on what people hope he can do. Rex has already shown how well he understands this offense last year and has only looked better so far this year. I can't fathom how Beck is viewed as having an upside and Rex not.

If Shanahan does tap Beck as his opening day starter, it would be a huge upset in my opinion and a very big leap of faith. Beck will go into that game having faced a 1st string defense maybe a total of 5 or 6 series (assuming he starts the Tampa game and depending on how long the Bucs keep in their 1's). Again, not exactly the textbook way you prep an inexperienced QB for the regular season.

[moondog]

I get that our offense is a mix of the Shanahan's and obviously Mike isn't just going to roll over and give it all to his son. With that being said, Kyle is much more pass-oriented (although he has publicly said we need to run the ball more and will with a better running game this year) but look at his quarterback in Houston. Funny that you mention Schaub as someone the offense could not reach it's full potential under, yet look what he did with Kyle as the OC.

I see what you're saying about Beck being a better fit in the overall scheme and with the smaller O-line but Grossman has not really shown himself to be a liability in the same scheme. He gets the ball out quick to avoid pressure and has done very well in bootlegs/rollouts and throwing on the move. While he is not as mobile as Beck and less likely to scramble, he has done very well playing within the system rolling out and finding receivers. Again, as I have continued to say, look at the disparity between Grossman and Beck when it comes to getting the ball to the RECEIVERS instead of the backs and allowing them to make plays. That is huge on offense and our receivers have a lot of playmaking potential.

[MartinC]

Yeah, that one he threw in the dirt when Tana was open for the 3rd down conversion was very Brees-esque

I'm pretty sure Drew Brees has missed an open receiver or two in his time - it happens to the best of them. Clearly you can't make a career out of it but also one poor throw is not evidence of anything.

Beck is clearly the more physically talented QB to my eyes but physical talent is not all you need to be a successful NFL QB.

We have seen Beck play well in preseaon but he has only thrown 20 odd passes so it's not a great sample size - I have seen enough though to think there is great potential in him and if it was my call I would start him in what I still see as a rebuilding year to see what we have. Rex would probably give us a better chance to win early but I think by the end of the year if he plays Beck could be a much better QB.

I expect Beck to start against Tampa and play a lot in a pass heavy game plan tom see if he can carry the offense. It may be against Tampa's 2's but if he plays well again I think he is the choice.